Allegations against me...

[jellibeans]

I think this is all so raw right now. It is understandable that you are hurt I am sure you are hurt badly. Can you take some time away? I think what you need to ask yourself is what are you hoping to accomplish by confronting her. Do you think she doesn't know you are hurt? Angry? Are you expecting something from your daughter she is not capable of giving. I think you could sit and discuss with her new boundaries going forward. Explain to her what you are expecting of her etc. but can you do that without showing anger? I think realizing she is sick and realizing she has made a very poor decision is what matters.

Try to take the emotion out of this. Don't confront her with anger it will surely be get anger.

Can you take some time to get over the hurt?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[muffetbuffet]

jellibeans,

The main reason I have not confronted her is that I know it would not be done without emotion and just like situations in the past, she has no understanding of how she hurts others with her behavior. She did the same thing to my son a few years ago claiming she was molested.  Unable to prove or disprove the accusations, it was unfounded.  DD holds that against us and says that we allowed her to be molested just like she claims that we allowed her boyfriend to "rape" her.  We spent hours and many therapy sessions on how her behavior effects other when she was in placement the last time. She will say one thing and then turn around and do the exact opposite.  Confronting her will solve nothing I am sure.  She is a very sick young lady and needs help that we cannot provide for her until we reach crisis stage again and need a trip to the ER. 

Wishing there were some way to get away, but right now don't see that happening.  We have no one to leave dd with.  We don't trust her home alone for too long. 

[MammaMia]

muffet

I have been where you are and understand exactly how you feel.  It is a no-win situation.  With my son, when he lived at home, it was the same.  Many things left unsaid because it was useless.  When I was called away at the time of my mother's death in a different state, he went into total meltdown with abandonment issues, threatening suicide, threatening my daughter.  She called the police, and he ended up in Detox when he should have been in the hospital.  I did not find out about any of this until I got home 2 weeks later.

I did not take time away for almost 20 years because of him.  I felt like I too was a prisoner in my own home.

He did not make allegations to my face but did plenty of name-calling about me behind my back.  His friends have told me that.  They know me and could not understand where all the anger and vitriol was coming from.

Such a sad situation these kids put us in.  It is hard to understand the fear unless you have been there.

[muffetbuffet]

Fear and stress!  You are right we can become a prisoner in our own home.  Problem is that sometimes that home is not safe because you are never sure what will be said by them. 

[pessim-optimist]

So I understand that the allegations are yelling out for help.  How do you get past all of the emotion in all of this?  Today I found myself wanting nothing to do with daughter.  She had a dr. appt. I picked her up.  Not a word was spoken in the car ride to dr.  She sat at one end of waiting room and I sat at the opposite end.  There were a few words spoken on the way home, but only about dr. appt.  I just could not handle being around her  I drove to our home, dropped her off at the end of the driveway and left.  I went to the mall and walked around until husband was done with work and then we both went home.  Not sure if it is the fear of being left home alone with her and the possibility of other allegations or the idea that she really hurt me.  I have no idea if she has any idea of what she has done, but two of the people who have fought for her for the last ten years are at the end of their rope and ready to say we are done.  Should I confront dd about it all?  I just cannot let this all go and pretend it never happened like I think she is hoping will be the case.  Very frustrated right now. 

Hi muffet,

I think that because you and your husband decidd that you were not going to be alone with her, there was an official 'reason' for going to the mall and not being woth her.

The emotional part, I totally understand. I have felt like that with my sd this last year, and I did not want to talk to her or see her. We were n/c for a while - her choice (she is an adult), so by the time we did talk, my emotions were ok.

However, I think about it this way: our pwBPD is emotionally immature. On that level, they are like a toddler. I would not 'confront' a toodler about having a tantrum. Reacting by getting angry back at them is not healthy either. Somehow remaining calm, and deaaling with toddlers in a wise way, and then dealing with our feelings about it separately is so much more easier than doing the same thing with our pwBPD!

The difference I think is this one - we don't have to 'pretend'. We can let them know that: 'I am having a hard time right now' or 'I am still dealing with my emotions, and need to take time for myself'

If you still feel like this needs to be addressed to clear the air, when you are more calm, you might try to have a conversation with your dd about it.

I don't know if it would work for your dd... .With my sd, I'd try someting like: 'We've all been having a hard time these last few days. We love you, we want to understand you and be supportive of you. We can't do that too well, when we have to pay attention to talking to the authorities instead and defending ourselves. So, for the next few days (or whatever time it will take), we will have to divide our attention between you and this issue. After this is all over, we hope to be more available to support you again. What do you think we can all do in the meantime to get along better?'

[muffetbuffet]

So after giving this lost of thought and trying to distance myself from the emotion, I tried to engage dd in a conversation last night.  I was at the stove cooking dinner and she was hanging around cause I was cooking one of her favorite dishes.  Without any expectations, I asked her how she did burn her arm.  This is the physical injury that I allegedly caused.  She quickly responded "I didn't" and walked away.  So, I at least now have the knowledge that she is still hanging onto the idea that I did this to her.  Later in the evening, she asked when children and youth would be visiting our home as they still need to do a safety inspection.  My response was that I don't know (which I don't).  It was almost as if she has something else to tell them.  Really watching what we are doing around her and documenting everything!

[js friend]

Oh Muffet!

I just read this and it stirred up so much emotion inside me. 

I have been through the false abuse allegations 3 times with my dd19 without her batting an eyelid while she has just basked in all the feelings of power. I really think when pwBPD falsely accuse it is like giving out warning shot.They are angry at us for whatever reason and this is their response. now your dd has admittedto you that it didnt happen and you didnt get angry with her I think she will most likely drop the claim. She knows after this she can go on living with you without you being forever angry with her which i think makes all the difference.

I think the percieved fear our pwBPD have from us and from the authorites if they backtrack drive them to carry on with these stories.

The last time my dd accused me of something like that I must admit i just went on with my daily life as best i could. I wsnt the wreck i was before and the school were really upset by the claims... .so there was no driving force there.  dd actually ended up breaking down. When she later described it to me  it sounded as if she had disassociated and actually couldnt tell whether it had been real or not.She actually said it felt like a dream.In reality she knew it couldnt have happened because i was ill and in bed at the time but her mind was telling her something else.

I had more sympathy for her which i believe dd sensed and I think resulted in her dropping the claims quicker than previous times.

Hang in there Muffet. Iam hopeful things will work out for you

[muffetbuffet]

Latest update:  DD has a new "friend".  She is 16 and he is 45... yes I said 45! Anyhow, dd came to us on Friday and asked if there was any time in the schedule over the weekend that new friend could come to our house to meet her and us.  Thought is that if we meet this adult male that we will allow our dd to hang out with him.  YEAH RIGHT!  The response dd got was that we are still under the watchful eyes of children protective services and also the school due to issues that SHE created.  We would not allow this man to be anywhere near dd as we don't need anymore issues to develop.  She has not given up on the issue of wanting to meet this man, but at least we now know for sure that she made up the allegations in the hope that she would be removed from our home.  It hurts me so that she would physically injure herself in order to get out of our home

[pessim-optimist]

That is truly sad to hear muffet... .

Do I understand you correctly that you think she's known him for a while and created this whole situation in order to be with him? I wonder how she thought it would have worked out with the CPS... .

Do you think there's ANY chance that those two events are just a random coincidence, not part of a plan?

Hang in there... .

[jellibeans]

Oh muffet


I think I would have jumped at the chance to meet her new friend... .45... .oh I think I would have loved to talk to him to find out what he is doing talking with your dd. I think it might be wise to meet him and get all the info you can on him. If this was my dd I would think there was already a plan in place to run away with this stranger. Red flags here... .danger... .this is a predator!

[muffetbuffet]

Husband and I do believe that the allegations of abuse and the plan to get out of the house were planned.  Do not believe for one minute that they just happened around the same time. 

Child protective services were at the house last night.  The caseworker made sure to point out to dd that the older man has no business talking to her and that he is just "grooming" her.  DD was also told that no one believes her lies about the allegations.  She was offered a lie detector test as she stands strong that she is not lying.  It is a sad situation for sure.  Caseworker left and dd was a bundle of sobbing tears.  She did sit and talk with husband and I for a little bit.  At one point, I even asked if she felt that she was at a point that she needed to go be hospitalized.  She turned down the offer.  Evening at home was quiet with no drama... .yeah!  She got up on time this AM and went to school for the first time this week.  Hope she listened to something that the caseworker said to her last night. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[crazedncrazymom]

What a relief that the CPS drama is over for you guys.  Now you can breath and figure out where to go from here.  Any ideas yet?  I'm so sorry you're going through this.  I'm so happy that CPS told her they believed she was lying without any equivocations.  I hope that older man goes away now.  Although you may consider having him over so you can meet him along with having your biggest male relatives/friends there to greet him.

I take it she met this man on-line?  How scary for you.  THe drama just never stops.  Did you talk to CPS about anything you guys can do to protect yourselves from future allegations?

-crazed

[muffetbuffet]

Where do we go from here?  Who knows?  Continue to live our lives one day at a time and pray that dd got at least a little scared by the fact that she was told she is one step away from placement in a juvenile detention facility.  Children protective service worker told her that.  Don't necessarily think that would be best place for her as she would not have MH needs met there, but will have to deal with it if it happens.  CPS worker also provided us with some information about terminating the adoption if things continue the way they have been and that would again mean putting dd in placement until age 18.  It would break my heart to walk away from her but if things don't straighten up we may end up doing something.  Husband and I cannot handle the continued stress of it all.  Would hate to "throw her away" but she is making choices that may not leave us any other choices at this time.  I don't expect everyone to understand as I know it sounds terribly cold and it makes us seem like horrible people to even be discussing making the choice of putting her in placement until age 18, but we have tried our best for the last three years and have given her everything possible in order to help her.  She has to be the one to make the decision to make the changes needed and take advantage of that help

[MammaMia]

muffet

Do not beat yourself up.  Dd's allegations of abuse backfired big time, and CPS told it to her straight.  She now has to take responsibility for what she did... .and why.  She has to be open to changing her behavior.  In retrospect, you are so fortunate CPS was there to help.  AND they actually did. 

I was not aware terminating an adoption was an option.  Yes, of course, it would be the absolute last resort, and a very hard decision to make.  Your dd was chosen out of love, and her BPD may be a biological trait that she inherited from her birth parents.  Who knows?

Sometimes our lives make absolutely no sense.  You and your dh are loving, kind parents.  No one can take that away from you.  Dd's disorder may have absolutely nothing to do with you.  You have not failed.

I wish you comfort and peace. 

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, muffetbuffet... .

I'm really sorry for all the trauma and pain your family is going through; this is a situation that no one should have to endure. I'm very glad that CPS came through for you, and that you and your husband are no longer under scrutiny. At least you have that blessing now; as for the pain and fear you still suffer, well, that is understandable after all the false accusations. I'm truly sorry!

I am wondering if she is ever receptive to you when you use Validation or S.E.T. techniques? I'm just wondering how that works... .Is she just non-responsive or even negative back? I'm asking because though those techniques work wonders with my dBPDson36, my husband with BPD traits (due to his uBPD Mom), and my uBPDMIL, they never worked 100% well with my own uBPDDIL (they do work with her husband, my other son, who has fleas due to trying to keep his home peaceful for his relationship with his wife).

After reading this Workshop recently: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=210574.0, I ended up coincidentally fielding a phone call with my son with "fleas" and uDIL on speakerphone last Saturday night. I panicked when the friendly call to coordinate a visit at my Mom's house to see them this weekend turned into the usual diatribe of every "bad" thing I ever did to them since they got engaged 10 years ago. Every time that happens (and it happens a lot!) I absorb their accusations, get defensive, and am useless to make things better.

Then, remembering the points in that Workshop, I did what it told me to do, and the phone call--and subsequent email from me to uDIL--went well! I was (and still am) amazed that things are so much easier for me to deal with now that I understand what I was doing wrong: I was too tied up in my own feelings of betrayal and fear and guilt to actually listen completely, with detachment, to actually hear the inner child pleas of help and compassion behind the accusations. Here were the points that helped me:

Set Aside Personal Beliefs, Concerns and Agenda

Remove Ourselves / Gain Perspective

Be Present/ Be an Active Listener

Getting Beyond the Facts / Relate

Talk to the Person's Inner-Child

See Empathy as a Lifestyle, Not an Event

That Workshop linked to explains these in a very good way to help us understand the importance of following the points, and my post about how much they helped me (and what my problems with them were) are in that thread. Even if you've read that Workshop before (and I did read it many times before I "got it" I recommend you check it out again... .Maybe there is a way to reach your daughter so that doing something you might not want to do, and that might end up being hurtful to her, won't have to happen.

At least it's worth a try in such a hurtful, confusing situation loaded with pain for everyone involved. The breakthrough I had was that I can communicate with my uDIL and non-Son without the emotional baggage of being hurt by their accusations, and talk to them like I would a poster on this site, with compassion and empathy and wonderful listening skills that aren't twisted up with my own personal feelings.

It can be done, and I'm looking forward to our visit this weekend... .I'm no longer afraid of their anger and accusations; I do believe I will be able to make this relationship with them better. I've already seen it happen on the phone for an hour last Saturday night, and in my emails with my uDIL. Positive reinforcement has given me my power back  

Can you let us know what you think of that Workshop? And, if you try using the tips, can you tell us how they worked? I'd be honored if you go over to that link and read my posts there about my troubles and subsequent positive reactions with my non-Son & uDIL.  

[crazedncrazymom]

What a heartbreaking dilemma.  I'm wondering if you can petition for a county case manager (contact your county mental health services) to help make these decisions and to try to push for a mandated placement in an rtf.  At least that way you won't feel like you're "throwing her away" and maybe she will get the help she so desperately needs.  I doubt cps actually wants her in the system anymore than you do.

-crazed  

[muffetbuffet]

Case manager... .tried that... .she came to our home dd refused to talk to her and told her that she wanted nothing to do with her  Being that dd is 16 she has all the legal rights to refuse services.

RTF placement again... .dr. mentioned that during the last two med check meetings but was not willing to discuss any further unless dd is in crisis.  Not sure what more she has to do to be in crisis.

[pessim-optimist]

RTF placement again... .dr. mentioned that during the last two med check meetings but was not willing to discuss any further unless dd is in crisis.  Not sure what more she has to do to be in crisis.

That might be something to go off of - to describe to him what's been is going on recently and/or ask him what in his mind constitutes a 'crisis'... .(I'm just trying to brainstorm - throwing ideas around)

If it came to RTF - do you need to research options for the next placement, or would you be happy with repeating the last one?

Let us know what you think of that workshop, if you find it helpful... .

[muffetbuffet]

Update:  Have to remember the motto of one day at a time so we are holding our breath as we make it through each day. 

DD has been back on meds for almost 3 weeks now so we are starting to see the positive effects that the meds have   DD has agreed to retry therapy and we have an appt. set for this coming Tuesday and she says she is going to follow through.  She has made it 8 (all day) straight days in a row to school.  Report card for the first quarter came out and she is failing two classes.  It will take alot to get them up so that she is passing the courses, but husband and I cannot take on the responsibility of handling that problem.  DD created that mess and she has to deal with it.  Child protective services has closed the case.  Actually sat down and ate dinner together with dd last night and had a "normal" conversation.  Sad to say that husband and I are so cautious at getting excited about any of these changes as it is so hard to fall into the trap.  Very difficult to take one day at a time and enjoy the moment when we know that trouble is lerking right around the corner.  Have a great day all.

[MammaMia]

muffet

Good news.  I am praying that your dd has had enough and will work to make life easier for all of you.

You are right, one day at a time ... .and today IS a great day!

Thanks for the update.  Take care.