Anyone else "suffer" from too much empathy?

[nevaeh]

I recently had a revelation and shared it with my counselor yesterday.

I am preparing to leave my H (in January, after the holidays).  I have a plan as to where I will go if H won't leave the house.  I have started putting together all of the pieces.  I am confident in my decision and I am ready to move on with the rest of my life.

My youngest son (S9) is the sweetest little guy ever.  His best friend lives next door to us and he spends a lot of time over there, particularly after school before I get home from work.  The house I am planning to move to is about 3-4 blocks away from our current house.  He won't be able to walk to his friend's house after school, he would have to ride his bike and winter has just started so he won't be able to ride his bike there until April or May.  I know this move will be really hard for him because of this.  I was thinking about how he was going to feel and I was having these horrible feelings of guilt that I was *doing* this to him.  

The revelation was that I find that I feel everyone else's pain but don't feel my own pain.  I don't really FEEL anything, actually, besides everyone else's pain.  I feel horrible for what I am about to do to my husband, which is why I am waiting until after the holidays.  I feel bad that my kids will be leaving the home that they love and in the case of my little one leaving friends behind.  We have two cats that my husband adores and I even feel bad for the cats because they are going to either be taken from me and the kids or from my husband.  The only feelings of my own I can identify in this whole thing are guilt for what I am doing to everyone else, and slight sense of excitement (or something like that) that I am soon to be independent of my husband.  I obviously also feel a sense of dread about the emotional turmoil that will result for everyone as a result of this separation (including my own).

So, I asked my counselor why I feel everyone else's pain so acutely, yet feel numb to my own pain (or almost feel like I don't have any pain)?

She asked me if I am angry at my husband.  I responded that I'm really not angry with him, I just feel indifferent.  She challenged me, asking how I could not have some anger for him after all of the history I have shared with her - she said I have every right to be angry, so if I do have anger, where have I put it or how have I expressed it?  I almost broke down and started crying when she made this statement.  I am a very emotionally controlled person and I really had to push those feelings down in order to not break down sobbing at that moment.  That act made me realize how much I have pushed down over the past 23 years.  The only times I have expressed anger towards my husband is when he is in the midst of a rage and he crosses a line with one of the kids or throws/breaks something.  When that happens, my own rage comes out and it can get ugly.  Aside from that, I basically just "take" my husband's verbal abuse because it is "easier".

In addition to suppressing anger towards my husband regarding his verbal abuse, I also try very hard to not show any signs of stress about anything.  If the kids are stressing me out for any reason, I don't make it obvious.  If I am stressed about having too much going on (kids, work, groceries, house cleaning, etc), I just suck it up and do it and don't ask him for any help because I know he can't deal with ANY level of stress.  I try very hard to always appear positive and happy because anytime I share my stress with him he makes it 100 times worse.  

I don't know quite what to do with this realization yet.  I think it is obvious to me that I will need to really face and deal with all of the pent-up anger that I have.  I don't know how to do that yet and told the counselor that this is something I think I will really have to work on once we are separated.

Anyone else "suffer" from too much empathy?  :)o you find that you feel everyone else's pain but not your own?  

[Learning_curve74]

Hey javamom, it sounds like you have a lot of things going on as well as about to happen in the near future. Numbing your own feelings and worrying about others sounds like a coping strategy -- a way to avoid the difficult feelings you might otherwise have to experience.

You wouldn't be the first or the last person to learn to put others' feelings and needs ahead of your own. Some people learn this while growing up, was that your case? Or do you think you learned it as a strategy for coping with your husband?

It's said that a lot of problems can arise when we deny or block out our feelings. On the other hand, it's also not healthy to act on every single feeling we have either. I think it is a very grown up thing to balance the emotional with the logical. Definitely an area I am trying to get better at myself! 

Kudos to you for discovering something important about yourself! 

[Jbt857]

For me, I think I've always put others first because I missed having that security of someone 'fighting my corner/putting me first' in my childhood and adolescence. Which is where I also acquired my abandonment issues.

I have gone without myself to help out friends. I always make sure my friends are ok, before myself. (My family are self contained, but it goes without saying that if they needed me, I'd make being there my priority.)

Obviously, I did the same for my husband. I saw he was suffering. I helped him and his family whenever they needed me, because I would want someone to do the same for me. Their needs were my priority, but I was okay with that, because that made me feel good, looking after people.

I am not particularly outwardly emotional, a trait partly inherited, and I am very good at applying logic and rationale to process my feelings. So I don't shout and scream. I cry a lot over my divorce and current situation, but outside of this, it's rare for me to do so. I don't feel it's suppressing my feelings as such. Just I deal with them in a more introverted way. I'm an only child and an introvert by nature, so it figures.

And of course, in my marriage not expressing anger was a way to avoid his blow-ups. Like you, I got angry when I was pushed to my absolute limit, but those times were rare. And I'm non confrontational by nature too. Even now, 8 months since we split, I struggle to find the anger that comes to many here. I feel desperately sad. For him, for me, for my hopes and for my dreams. But however badly I've been hurt, I struggle to feel angry. I know it's a stage of healing and I should feel it, but it just isn't there. But it's not really been 'in me' as long as I remember. I get frustrated. I get sad. But anger? 

I very much a 'get on with it' kind of person. That's how I was raised, that's how i deal with things. I'm the peacemaker, the advisor, the fixer. I analyze the hell out of things. Everything. And that leads to me rationalising why things are as they are. I always want to see the good, give people the benefit of the doubt, empathise with everyone. I don't feel I'm denying my anger. I think for me, it just comes out in different ways.

I feel like I'm rambling, but hopefully there's something there that helps!

[nevaeh]

First, LC, you asked about whether maybe I learned to look out for others first as a child.  That is a good question, but I'm not sure how to answer it.  I have very loving parents.  They are both very intelligent and highly driven in their careers.  I never felt unloved by my parents... .never.  They took us on vacations and out to dinner and to movies and we did fun things as a family.  We were never spanked and I didn't really have rules or curfews to live by because I am a "rule follower" --- first child.  My dad traveled a lot for his job so there were times when he wasn't home and it was just my mom and me and my younger sister.  In looking back at my childhood I really can't point to anything that "made" me this way, other than that maybe that's just how I'm wired.

Second... .JBT... .you bring up some very good points that brought me back to reality a bit.  I am definitely an introvert.  I also process things in a logical and rational way.  I am also not highly emotional either - I try VERY hard to keep my emotions in check.  I really don't get angry at anyone much at all - my S12 and my H are probably the two who push my buttons most and that especially happens when they are behaving irrationally!  I am also the advisor, the fixer and the voice of reason in any given situation.  I wish my head would stop processing every single possible scenario

It's interesting that you say that you don't feel like you are suppressing your feelings because I really don't feel like I am suppressing either, just that I when I look at all my husband has done I can logically think that I "should" be angry because that behavior would make any normal person angry, right? 

I am also non-confrontational.  I don't see the point in confrontation.  I think part of my aversion to confrontation is that confrontation makes me emotional and I don't allow those to get out of control so I avoid the confrontation to avoid getting emotional (i.e. angry or upset with someone). 

I'm also a "get on with it" type of person.  I shared the situation about my son with my counselor yesterday and she asked what is the worst that could happen?  Well, the worst that would happen is that S9 might be mad for a bit but that I will help him work through it and he will be fine... .it's just a change that needs to be tolerated and adjustments will be made.  Logically I know that any emotional turmoil resulting from our separation will just be temporary.  Its the empathy that I have for others who will be impacted by this situation that I feel most intensely and it has really been one of the things that has prevented me from pursuing a divorce earlier.  When I am REALLY angry with my H (in the midst of a fight) I can say horrible things to him and I have a level of hate for him that I wouldn't think was possible.  But after the fight is over and I start processing what happened and the fact that I want to leave him then the empathy for him comes around and I back off.  I am ready to break this cycle, but this is what has been happening for years.

Maybe it's OK if I don't have a lot of anger.  I think I just want to feel like I'm not suppressing things that will come back to bite me later. 

Nice to know that there are people out there like me. 

[fromheeltoheal]

I've always put other people's needs ahead of my own, classic people pleaser behavior, along with fear of confrontation.  The gift I got from my borderline is when she pushed it too far, more than I've even been pushed by anyone, I finally got pissed off enough to leave her, which stopped the bleeding but was only step 1, turns out.  Something happened as a result of that trauma, it's like the floodgates opened and situations I hadn't thought about in years came up, complete with extremely strong emotions, seems like my ability to repress doesn't work anymore, or I had repressed so much the dam finally broke.

It's been a very tough year.  I've left passive and overshot assertive on my way to aggressive, unbridled rage at times, and some folks have really gotten an earful, but that's OK, my emotions are the most important emotions to me suddenly, and that's a good thing.  I've felt stuff so strongly that I got physically sick for a few months, but the stuff has to come out, and the focus now is to not put any more on the pile moving forward, by standing up for myself for once.  Everything seems different now, and I'm not there yet, but I do have my borderline to thank for the pain that finally allowed me to break through.

[nevaeh]

Good for you FHTH!

I think I understand what you are saying.  I know when H and I go at it and I unleash my anger on him there is a side effect shortly thereafter where I don't really care what people think and if I'm ticked off at them I tell them.  I don't go crazy with it but there is something that triggers my "give a $hit factor" when I am in that mode.  I think its a bit of a survival instinct - in other words I have at that point asserted myself to my H and that has fueled my "ability" to do it with others, if only for a short time.  It's a bit empowering, I guess.

I don't know what there might be that could come back to haunt me, but I will soon find out.  I'm glad to hear your perspective as it will make me aware that I could go through the same thing.  Sometimes its best to be prepared for unexpected!

[Cumulus]

Hi java mom, I relate to most of what you said, rarely feel angry, rarer still for me to express it. I am by nature an extrovert so not sure if that is a common denominator. Like you I kept waiting for the anger to come rolling to the surface, I separated from my xBPDh two and a half years ago and have yet to be consumed by anger towards him. I have felt more anger towards myself for not seeing what was in front of me. I have had my moments, one thing that has come up on several occasions has been feeling anger toward him for not allowing me to have a husband to share a life of memories, children and grandchildren with as I age. I felt like we had everything and he threw it away like it was garbage. More than anger though I feel overwhelming sadness for him and the life we lost.

I am sorry for what is going on in your life right now. How difficult to hold yourself and the situation together over the holidays knowing what the new year will bring. I admire your strength doing what you feel is right for you and your children.

[Amber3]

You are not alone. I do the same thing. And I've just realized it comes from my childhood. Now that I have the realization, like you, it's hard to know what to do with it. I tend to forget about me and things get stuffed down. Just being aware is a huge step I think. I'm reading a book now that talks about sitting in that awareness and seeing how you are feeling in situations and letting that feeling exist and subside if only temporarily. Let it be just as it is. It's a step, I suppose. Now little by little maybe more steps will come? I don't have any answers. I have to finish the book! You've made some courageous choices so far… I wish you the best.  

[Jbt857]

I guess the key is whether or not we feel the anger is there, bubbling somewhere inside us, or not. Or if we feel emotionally numb or empty.

For me, my anger expresses as hurt and sadness and upset. It's not that I don't feel things, I do. Deeply. Heavens knows how much pain, sadness, despair and hurt I've felt.

But just as BPD's can't all be painted with exactly the same brush, I don't think we can either. I guess for me, anger would be so far outside of my comfort zone and who I am, that I'm okay with not feeling it.

I do wonder for me - in my 20's I studied Muay Thai. I was pretty serious about it, I fought and trained in Thailand and I learned a lot about the origins and the spiritual side of it. (It's heavily aligned with Buddhism). You'd think hitting people for fun would make you more angry, but it really defused any anger I did have and I learned how to channel my frustration and hurt into something positive. As a boxer of any kind, anger is a really negative emotion to have. It clouds things too much and leads to bad decisions. I wonder if that maybe has something to do with it in my case... .That I just learned to channel anger in other ways to keep a clear head... .Food for thought! 

[whirlpoollife]

javamom, as I read your post, it gives me flashbacks. I can relate to it. I saw a L in Sept 2011, then I decided to wait till after the holidays to actually file for divorce because I didn't want to be the one to hurt anyone and ruin the holidays.  I was frightened and used that as an excuse too.  Following year I told h I did not to be married to him anymore because I did not want to hurt him by using the word, divorce.  I put up , and shut up, years of abuse from h , and I didn't want to hurt him?  :)id he reciprocate back? No he has painted me black all over town and with family.  If I filed right away (sept 2011), I would not be in the financial mess of divorce that I am in now .  So who did I hurt?... .me.

The hardest thing was telling the kids that I was "divorcing" their dad.  Because I was taking the life as they knew it away from them.  In a book, "He's history You're not", one chapter said that kids are never grown. That divorce is actually harder on adult kids.   I have s15 and d13.  18 months since I filed.  13 months separated. It was tough on them but you as the stable parent they make it though.  They will adapt.  

I applaud you to having a place to move to.  Living with h after filing till court order for h to leave wasn't pretty. (I learned later that my then L stalled the process and I could have had a emergency hearing it)  Kids will get used to living in a new home because again you are the stable one.  The house is a building, you make it a home. (words from here)

As for the kittys,  if your h is truly good to them and if you have to leave them they will be ok.  It will be hard on you but later you can give a home to other cats that would not have a home otherwise. I kept my dogs because my x2b h loved dogs but he would tease and be mean to them in a way that it was abuse. He It wasn't hiding the bone under the blanket or hide and seek.

Words , not exact , that helped me was from this board, was cut the emotions and file. It's a business deal now.




 

[nevaeh]

I was frightened and used that as an excuse too.  Following year I told h I did not to be married to him anymore because I did not want to hurt him by using the word, divorce.  I put up , and shut up, years of abuse from h , and I didn't want to hurt him?  Did he reciprocate back? No he has painted me black all over town and with family.

It has taken me a while but I am at that point I need to be at to make this happen.  I have absolutely no "try" left.  I am basically waiting until after Christmas because if my H refuses to leave the house then I will leave, but I really don't want to do that to the kids.  I have put up with my unhappiness for 18 years, another month won't hurt.  It does help that I have a place to go.  I still have some planning to do but have a general plan in mind.

I was talking to my counselor the other day and told her I had been thinking a lot about why I have been so "scared" to tell my H I want a divorce.  Truly, there are times that I look at him and see a 5-yr old child and that makes me feel so sorry for him.  However, I told my counselor that I had the realization that I have had SO MUCH EMOTIONAL TURMOIL within me for the past 23 years that we have been together and I realized that while I know my H has struggled at times, I know that for the most part he has made it this long BECAUSE I have internalized so much and have protected him from himself.  He doesn't realize how easy he has had it.  It is disturbing to me when I think about all I have been through and the stress I have been subjected to, while he has just kind of floated through life always thinking he is right and that he can get me to think whatever he wants simply by his words and actions. 

I have never been more ready to do this.  I will do this.  I know my kids will be fine.  I know I will feel their pain, but I also know that they will not be all that "upset" about not having to live with their dad anymore.  My D16 said she thinks that he will be a better dad to them if he doesn't have to live with them.  I think she is right.  I am worried about S12 and whether H will take out any frustrations on him, but that will have to be dealt with as we move forward.  I am the stable one and I know that I can help my kids work through this, I have absolutely no doubts about that.  We will all be happier and more relaxed.  Obviously the huge unknown is how H will react and what curves he will throw into all of this but I am confident we will be OK!

I really appreciate everyone's perspectives.  It helps me to know that there are others like me and I'm not completely "dysfunctional".  I actually FEEL normal but then when I think about how maybe I should be acting/thinking I wonder if I actually AM normal.     I know I can stand on my own. 

[Learning_curve74]

I was reading what you wrote, javamom, and what other people wrote, and it occurs to me that we all have certain styles of emotional expression and repression. Perhaps these are derived from a combination of inborn personality tendencies, learned tendencies, and the identity we cultivate for ourselves. When we develop an identity that we are logical and the voice of reason, we probably do things and process our feelings in ways that reinforce our self-image. Combine that with holding back during your 23 year marriage with your husband in order to avoid triggering him, that can be a very powerful way of reinforcing your emotional "style". Maybe that is part of how you ended up being more worried about others' emotions rather than your own?

Another thing that may or may not apply, is that many people feel that negative emotions are "bad" and that we are "bad" people when we feel them. How many times do we hear that instead of being mad, sad, or depressed that we should just be happy and thankful for what we have instead? Like it's inherently bad to have any negative feelings? Maybe sometimes we block things out in order to avoid feeling bad about feeling bad?

Don't mind me if this doesn't apply to you, just thinking "out loud" at the keyboard here... . 

[an0ught]

Hi javamom,

So, I asked my counselor why I feel everyone else's pain so acutely, yet feel numb to my own pain (or almost feel like I don't have any pain)?

She asked me if I am angry at my husband.  I responded that I'm really not angry with him, I just feel indifferent.  She challenged me, asking how I could not have some anger for him after all of the history I have shared with her - she said I have every right to be angry, so if I do have anger, where have I put it or how have I expressed it?  I almost broke down and started crying when she made this statement.  I am a very emotionally controlled person and I really had to push those feelings down in order to not break down sobbing at that moment.  That act made me realize how much I have pushed down over the past 23 years.  The only times I have expressed anger towards my husband is when he is in the midst of a rage and he crosses a line with one of the kids or throws/breaks something.  When that happens, my own rage comes out and it can get ugly.  Aside from that, I basically just "take" my husband's verbal abuse because it is "easier".

In addition to suppressing anger towards my husband regarding his verbal abuse, I also try very hard to not show any signs of stress about anything.  If the kids are stressing me out for any reason, I don't make it obvious.  If I am stressed about having too much going on (kids, work, groceries, house cleaning, etc), I just suck it up and do it and don't ask him for any help because I know he can't deal with ANY level of stress.  I try very hard to always appear positive and happy because anytime I share my stress with him he makes it 100 times worse.  

I don't know quite what to do with this realization yet.  I think it is obvious to me that I will need to really face and deal with all of the pent-up anger that I have.  I don't know how to do that yet and told the counselor that this is something I think I will really have to work on once we are separated.

Anyone else "suffer" from too much empathy?  :)o you find that you feel everyone else's pain but not your own?  

Good question. Where are the own emotions?

It's interesting that you say that you don't feel like you are suppressing your feelings because I really don't feel like I am suppressing either, just that I when I look at all my husband has done I can logically think that I "should" be angry because that behavior would make any normal person angry, right?  

... .

I am also non-confrontational. I don't see the point in confrontation.  I think part of my aversion to confrontation is that confrontation makes me emotional and I don't allow those to get out of control so I avoid the confrontation to avoid getting emotional (i.e. angry or upset with someone).  

... .

It strikes me that you are talking about your emotions in an abstract way, logically, focusing on the points of the matter. And as emotions are unknown and as no experience controlling them exists they are feared.



It may be that over time you lost connection with your emotions... .

When I was young, it seemed that life was so wonderful, a miracle, it was beautiful, magical

And all the birds in the trees, well they'd be singing so happily, joyfully, playfully, watching me

But then they send me away to teach me how to be sensible, logical, responsible, practical

And they showed me a world where I could be so dependable, clinical, intellectual, cynical

There are times when all the world's asleep

The questions run too deep for such a simple man

Won't you please, please tell me what we've learned

I know it sounds absurd but please tell me who I am... .

Supertramp - The logical song

Some us us are sensitive. All of us have to deal with a barrage of unwanted, out of control and often unfriendly emotions. We in a relationship with a pwBPD all learned the hard way that adding fuel to the fire is making it larger. It is natural to adopt coping mechanisms that are focused on protecting us. We perceive foreign emotions - knowledge is power - but we don't let any emotions get to us.


I found validation very useful to reconnect to my emotions. The very act of expressing others emotions make it more clear that these are not mine. They are expelled. A positive side effect is that it helps others to regulate their emotions but the primary motivation that got me hooked on validation is simply keeping my inside free from intrusion. Creating the space for my emotions. For which I have now a much richer vocabulary thanks to all the validation I'm doing.