Friends with BPDexGF

[winston3]

I was pointed to this thread today because I have been told that I am not actually letting go by staying friends with my BPDexGF. Anyway I'll just put it my story and questions out here.

I have been living abroad for over three years. I have been a supportive (validating, non-enabling) ex-boyfriend of my BPDexGF for 4 years. (since 2009) We did have "flings" about three times during those 4 years. Before that we had dated for 7 years. (since 2002) During our time dating she gradually got worse and worse, and is has also developed some other mental illnesses (bipolar, anorexia/bulimia). It was mostly a great relationship with a downtime about once a year, generally around winter where she would split... .paint me black... .break up with me... .and then come back around February or March. When she dumped me I would maintain my independence. There would also be "uptimes" where she would get really into me... .clingy, attached, and demanding.

Last spring my BPDexGF was technically my friend but very interested in starting out again whenever I would come home from being abroad. ("We're meant to be together", ":)o you think that you can handle committing to me again?" Unfortunately she got into some self-destructive behaviors and was using alcohol. I was not exactly a "caretaker" but more so a voice of support on the phone. I was open to eventually being a boyfriend again but there were no commitments and I was staying independent and trying to keep my self respect.

Anyway after the BPDexGF was in near-constant counseling and treatment she had nothing to talk about over the phone and got angry at me regularly - calling my talk "self-centered". I started to get a little wounded and depressed and she split and eventually painted me black. Also I think that she got the idea that I was attached to her from counseling - which is not the case. So she has this idea that I'm co-dependent, even though my actions show that I'm not.

She then switched to narcissist mode whenever I would call, talking only about herself. Then I went to visit home (a few months ago) and she told me that I should "move on" and that she was dating others. Since then (last month) she claims to have "gone steady" with someone else.

She then unexpectedly begged me to be "good friends" and to "not love her forever". She said that she really wants to meet me again when I go home next year. She thinks that I should "try dating with others." I said that, "the door was open, you can call me anytime to talk about anything." She also said, "You're the only friend that I haven't thrown away since high school."

So I accepted her panicky offer to be friends. However, she rarely calls. When I call her, she is giving me the news report and not putting much effort into the conversation. Eventually though our messaging and calling is at least mutually respectful... .if also brief. What can I say, the spark isn't there right now for conversation (for me) and it feels slightly awkward. I can sense this sort of anxious desperation on her end to say something but to restrain herself from saying too much. I'm wondering what she's hiding. (she has been known for a lot of silent treatment and occasionally "well-intentioned" lying)

I can state -

1. Any relationship with her has ended up being worth it for me... .patience has shown that both friendship and love has been fun and mutually enjoyable in the long run. (Even if she attaches and/or splits for about a quarter of the year... .which really sucks and hurts)

2. I've been committed to myself by living abroad and not rushing back to love that I partially see as desperation.

3. I'm open to dating others but not in a rush. I'm very busy with work. If I date others... .do you think that she'll just stop talking to me?

4. I am in counseling and getting advice from her parents on self-respect and change etc., I was partially doing this to prepare to be her boyfriend again. Now it's more about me.

So I'm just wondering -

1. Am I a trigger?   :'(

2. How can I improve this friendship? Humor? Is there anything that I can say in a non-heavy way to explain my way back into the conversation being as fun as usual? Should I just give it time? Should I just keep validating and be patient? 

3. If I'm going back home from abroad next year what steps should I take to make things comfortable before the long-distance becomes same-town? 

4. I'm not jealous of her having a new BF. However - I have a feeling that she is going to eventually break up with him and try rushing back to me. I'm not sure of where I'll be at that point. (With someone else/single and ready/not open to it) Any way to tell if there are signals and - how should I defend myself from getting blindsided again? 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[KE151]

It doesn't sound like a true friendship to me. Not reciprocal (it's all about her needs) and clouded by the tumultuous r/s history. It seems like she wants to keep you as a back up, and "staying friends" is her only way to do this. And you seem to be content in the situation. In a LDR much of the r/s or friendship happens "offline" i.e. in your own mind, thinking about her and the times you've had together. Be careful, you really have no idea what her life is truly like and what your role is in it. You only have her word, and she is BPD.

My questions to you are:

- are you really detached, or do you WANT to be detached? Emotionally that is.

- could you start a new r/s without looking back and any what-ifs (regarding BPDexgf) if someone special came into your life?

- how much time and energy do you currently use to think about her? Once a day, 10x a day... ?

- what is your motivation to have a friendship with her?

Take care of yourself (as opposed to her) and good luck!

[winston3]

It doesn't sound like a true friendship to me. Not reciprocal (it's all about her needs) and clouded by the tumultuous r/s history. It seems like she wants to keep you as a back up, and "staying friends" is her only way to do this. And you seem to be content in the situation. In a LDR much of the r/s or friendship happens "offline" i.e. in your own mind, thinking about her and the times you've had together. Be careful, you really have no idea what her life is truly like and what your role is in it. You only have her word, and she is BPD.

My questions to you are:

1. are you really detached, or do you WANT to be detached? Emotionally that is.

2. could you start a new r/s without looking back and any what-ifs (regarding BPDexgf) if someone special came into your life?

3. how much time and energy do you currently use to think about her? Once a day, 10x a day... ?

4. what is your motivation to have a friendship with her?

Take care of yourself (as opposed to her) and good luck!

I wrote this letter to her but didn't send it. What do you all think about it? I doubt that I could send it but it's how I feel.

"I'm sorry but I have to get this out. If all of those problems with me in the past (5+ years ago) were so bad, then why did you have a romance with me last year? I just wanted to ask that.

I've really tried to change as a person and I really gave you space. I am a much more mature, responsible, and independent person as a result of these past years [abroad]. I tried to be a committed long-distance friend and leave the possibility of getting back together open. But it simply wasn't possible this year. And you found others. I have no problems with your relationship now and I hope that you're having a good time in your life. But I want to bring up the following questions for you to consider.

1. Was there really any need to judge me and devalue me?

2. Was there really any need to use my depression (over having difficulties returning home) as a reason to paint me black... .as if I'm just this groveling, negative, self-centered person?

3. Is there any reason that I should be a trigger for your anxieties?

4. Our relationship history seems cloudy to you but can you remember some positive things about me aside from the few negatives? I worked really hard to be a decent guy to you no matter what the status of our relationship was. And I looked out for myself too. You have to admit that we had fun a lot of the time and many great memories.

I'm simply still your friend living [overseas]. I look forward to seeing you again someday in person. I still care for you."

[KE151]

Beautifully written, sincere questions that show you care about her. But no offense, you sound like a puppy wanting to cuddle. No boundaries.

Unfortunately the letter shows you have given up many many things to be with her. Things that are key for your wellbeing. Self respect first and foremost. That's key for any healthy relationship. In your letter, it sounds you're taking the blame for most of the troubles in your r/s. She has her 50,0 % responsibility and so do you. You have changed for the better. But what has she done?

With those questions, you'll likely get even more bashing as you are being submissive, and you're actually inviting her to once again over step your boundaries. It sounds you are hanging by a thread of hope. She has all the power now and she knows it. There is no way you'll get proper answers to any of those questions from her. If she replies to you, they'll be answers that serve her purposes, not yours.

What if she replies with Y/Y/Y/N, respectively? Would you be OK with that?

You know for a fact that the correct answers are N/N/N/Y. You don't need her to verify that.

So really, don't send this letter.

Take care.

[winston3]

Beautifully written, sincere questions that show you care about her. But no offense, you sound like a puppy wanting to cuddle. No boundaries.

Unfortunately the letter shows you have given up many many things to be with her. Things that are key for your wellbeing. Self respect first and foremost. That's key for any healthy relationship. In your letter, it sounds you're taking the blame for most of the troubles in your r/s. She has her 50,0 % responsibility and so do you. You have changed for the better. But what has she done?

With those questions, you'll likely get even more bashing as you are being submissive, and you're actually inviting her to once again over step your boundaries. It sounds you are hanging by a thread of hope. She has all the power now and she knows it. There is no way you'll get proper answers to any of those questions from her. If she replies to you, they'll be answers that serve her purposes, not yours.

What if she replies with Y/Y/Y/N, respectively? Would you be OK with that?

You know for a fact that the correct answers are N/N/N/Y. You don't need her to verify that.

So really, don't send this letter.

Take care.

Thanks Yoda (I mean KE151). The force is strong with you. That was an awesome response.

Yeah it's been over 10 years of back and forth with her. Maybe it's time for some self-respect.

[Learning_curve74]

Hey Winston3, we are all looking out for each other here on the boards, and I understand writing that letter was a way to work out your emotions and hope for some answers.

Since your ex has BPD, don't you think that she'll feel the questions are all about you attacking her? She's already called your talk "self centered" and may perceive this as more of the same. Also remember that one of the communication strategies is to avoid JADEing: justify, argue, defend, explain. Your questions may be perceived as spoiling for an argument.

I noticed you never answered KE151's question about how does this friendship serve you? All your questions show that you have a need for her to find value in you. That's ok, everybody likes to feel needed. But more importantly, you need to find value in yourself.

It's ok to be the emotional caretaker in a BPD relationship (and friendship is a type of relationship), in fact it is necessary. But you also have to be your own emotional caretaker because she is not capable of fulfilling that role for you. She only has dysfunctional coping skills for herself, so you can't expect her to do any of that for you. A good reason we always say take care of yourself. 

[winston3]

Hey Winston3, we are all looking out for each other here on the boards, and I understand writing that letter was a way to work out your emotions and hope for some answers.

Since your ex has BPD, don't you think that she'll feel the questions are all about you attacking her? She's already called your talk "self centered" and may perceive this as more of the same. Also remember that one of the communication strategies is to avoid JADEing: justify, argue, defend, explain. Your questions may be perceived as spoiling for an argument.

I noticed you never answered KE151's question about how does this friendship serve you? All your questions show that you have a need for her to find value in you. That's ok, everybody likes to feel needed. But more importantly, you need to find value in yourself.

It's ok to be the emotional caretaker in a BPD relationship (and friendship is a type of relationship), in fact it is necessary. But you also have to be your own emotional caretaker because she is not capable of fulfilling that role for you. She only has dysfunctional coping skills for herself, so you can't expect her to do any of that for you. A good reason we always say take care of yourself. 

Thanks. I wrote the letter without sending it as sort of an exercise. You and KE151 have a good point... .how does the friendship serve me? It's hard to imagine how I can also flip from being "submissive"-looking to having equal footing. I always wanted to imagine that the equal footing that we'd have at times in our relationship would have been consistent. But unfortunately she would split... .generally when she would have her own problems. it was often nothing to do with me.

To top it off, she's with a new guy. So I don't know where that's going to go. For all I know he's "the one". It's not very self-respectful to myself - to make myself watch her get into a possibly successful relationship with a new guy. That might hurt. I mean, I know that the long-distance factors into her looking for a new relationship but perhaps deep down I still carry a torch. Ugh this is hard. I want to keep her in my life somehow because I have fun with her. Plus she's really the closest person in the world to me and vice-versa. Yet of course it grows more and more uncomfortable every time.

Letting go of her and moving on to someone else might be it for her. I don't know if she could watch that.

Today she texted me by the way and asked "When are you planning to come home? Any earlier?" Which seems like a weird question.

[winston3]

UPDATE:

So she called texted me a few days ago. Then we had a long discussion about when I was coming home. We then shared a lot of jokes and it's obvious that she's split again - now she's admiring me and focusing on my positive traits rather than giving me silent treatment and focusing on my negative traits. Yesterday she was just asking question after question about me excitedly. I wonder if she's bored or having relationship issues with her current BF?

Then she asked me why I missed home and I gave indications that I miss the good old lifestyle. She said that I sounded more "healthy." Then we were joking a bit but I had to go to work. She asked me a few things about if I missed her and of course I do... .but now that she's with someone else I have to walk the line and not openly show that I still like her.

I guess I'm so used to the cycle that I know that an "upswing" is coming here.

I think that she must have had discussions in treatment and determined somehow that when we were together we were co-dependent which is NOT true. So she thought that she was bad for me. Then she made herself available to date others and like magic this guy showed up.

Like KE151 said it's still an LDR and a friendship at that. Maybe I'm just overthinking it. I want to set myself up for another chance if I can get one, though I don't go home until later in the year.

[goldylamont]

winston3, i'm not sure where you get the idea that if you started seeing someone else that this would make your "friend" less attracted to you? i feel perhaps you are misunderstanding attraction, sexuality. people are attracted to strength. straight women are attracted to mentally strong men who are emotionally available but stand their ground and live their lives.

i hear what you are saying about being frustrated that your 'friend' concluded that you were co-dependent on her and uses this to justify pulling away. while it does sound like you aren't co-dependent in the sense that you sound like you keep busy with your own work and life, my friend you sound completely codependent on her whims before you are willing to take a chance with someone else romantically.

trust, if you are in another country, when she's nice to you she's punishing her bf or whoever else she is seeing in addition to him that she hasn't told you about. when she pulls away it's because she's having fun with one (or several) guys. just the way they tend to roll.

the letter you wrote was all about you and getting answers you need (and deserve)--she doesn't care to hear this. this would push her away or she may not even get through reading it--she's probably more interested in excitement and new shiny things when it comes to romance and sex life. 'friendship' with you is great for her because you bottle up any sort of self-need and give her whatever emotional support she wants. it's one-sided. that's what xBPD 'friendships' are -- one-sided.

i think it's admirable that you are able to deal with her seeing someone else and hold things together for yourself. but it's not healthy for you to keep putting your romantic life on hold for someone who does not care to share in your romantic well being.

here's the gist of a letter that may pique her interest and make her feel more attraction to you again: "hi ex, i just wanted to say that i really value your friendship and tell you how awesome you are. i'm so excited about life right now... .i just met the most beautiful girl! i know if you two met you'd fall in love with her too. you guys actually share some of the same quirks, . but the good kind. anyways i'm still working tons and lucky to have her to curb me to do some new stuff <<talk about stuff you're doing>>. so, yeah, just wanted to check in on you and say i appreciated your friendship, even through the ups and downs. so, how's things with your bf going? hopefully well and he better be treating you like the queen you are or he'll have to deal with me! jokes, talk to ya later friend!" << ? what? independent, new woman, you're detaching from her? and protective? and complimentary?

you do not want to tell her that no matter what she does (or has done) that you will always be there for her. this is basically saying that if she chooses to she can use you as a doormat. and you're not one.

winston3 i can't generalize and say that all pwBPD are selfish, but your ex sounds pretty selfish. so this type of r/s won't work if you feel the need to talk about your needs... .and that's just not fair to you. if you really want another chance with her and you're LD, i say work to detach from the dream of being with her. give yourself and her the freedom of no commitment and start something beautiful with someone else. as soon as you have something good going on with someone else i'm sure she'll be coming round that mountain to test you too