Violent Temper rage episodes

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

nevaeh, ... .  have you considered taking a "relationship vacation" /holiday from your husband? For example, go live with a girlfriend or parents or something? It is just a thought.

I got to the point of "no return". Maybe you may reach this point. I thought that I never would,...   as a vow of marriage was so very important to me. I grew up in a very, very Catholic family.  Anyways,... .  we had such a great marriage actually. For 14 wonderful years.  But when the booze got into the scene, ... .  it opened up the floodgates of bizarre behaviour. 

Her relatives blame me for her troubles. They would never admit that she actually has troubles (as this would be admitting they themselves have issues, ... .  as the area that I reside kinda know that my in-laws are temper-riddden). They blame me b/c I built a wine cellar in our house. Sounds odd, doesn't it? I'm the one to blame for my wife being the alcoholic b/c of a wine cellar.

OPO,

Like me, your wife drinks bc she has to... .  not because of anything anyone else has done in the world to her.

I can play that victim role, as well... .  and I will never quit drinking

There is nothing you can do to cure her alcoholism... .  nothing.

That comes from within

[arn131arn]

nevaeh, ... .  have you considered taking a "relationship vacation" /holiday from your husband? For example, go live with a girlfriend or parents or something? It is just a thought.

I got to the point of "no return". Maybe you may reach this point. I thought that I never would,...   as a vow of marriage was so very important to me. I grew up in a very, very Catholic family.  Anyways,... .  we had such a great marriage actually. For 14 wonderful years.  But when the booze got into the scene, ... .  it opened up the floodgates of bizarre behaviour. 

Her relatives blame me for her troubles. They would never admit that she actually has troubles (as this would be admitting they themselves have issues, ... .  as the area that I reside kinda know that my in-laws are temper-riddden). They blame me b/c I built a wine cellar in our house. Sounds odd, doesn't it? I'm the one to blame for my wife being the alcoholic b/c of a wine cellar.

OPO,

Like me, your wife drinks bc she has to... .  not because of anything anyone else has done in the world to her.

I can play that victim role, as well... .  and I will never quit drinking

There is nothing you can do to cure her alcoholism... .  nothing.

That comes from within

[nevaeh]

nevaeh, ... .  have you considered taking a "relationship vacation" /holiday from your husband? For example, go live with a girlfriend or parents or something? It is just a thought.

I got to the point of "no return". Maybe you may reach this point. I thought that I never would,...   as a vow of marriage was so very important to me. I grew up in a very, very Catholic family.  Anyways,... .  we had such a great marriage actually. For 14 wonderful years.  But when the booze got into the scene, ... .  it opened up the floodgates of bizarre behaviour. 

Her relatives blame me for her troubles. They would never admit that she actually has troubles (as this would be admitting they themselves have issues, ... .  as the area that I reside kinda know that my in-laws are temper-riddden). They blame me b/c I built a wine cellar in our house. Sounds odd, doesn't it? I'm the one to blame for my wife being the alcoholic b/c of a wine cellar.

I will be leaving him late January or early February.  I have retained a lawyer and am working through the details.  I have been at the point of no return for quite some time, just too scared to do anything about it.

You bring up a good question about the "vacation"... .  my H is in the military and has had a few deployments - some for 3-4 months at a time and one deployment to Iraq where he was gone 9 months, during which he had a serious emotional and physical affair with a fellow officer.  Anyway, I have had the opportunity to have several of those vacations and when H is not in our house it is calm and peaceful.  I have much less stress and find that I am able to think more clearly and am just overall more level.  I have had a taste of what my life would be like without him and I have no fears about whether I am making the right decision.

I also grew up Catholic (although not "strict" and have always taken my vows very seriously.  One of the readings in our wedding was 1 Corinthians 13:4-7:

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

When I read that verse and think about the significance of the fact that it was read during our wedding, I realize that what H and I have isn't really love... .  what we have is not defined by that verse.  What we have is somewhat the opposite of that verse.  I find that oddly comforting... .  that I may be violating my vows by divorcing, but I'm not sure we ever really had a love that could be defined as worthy of marriage in the first place.  Just some thoughts. 

[musicfan42]

nevaeh, ... .  have you considered taking a "relationship vacation" /holiday from your husband? For example, go live with a girlfriend or parents or something? It is just a thought.

I got to the point of "no return". Maybe you may reach this point. I thought that I never would,...   as a vow of marriage was so very important to me. I grew up in a very, very Catholic family.  Anyways,... .  we had such a great marriage actually. For 14 wonderful years.  But when the booze got into the scene, ... .  it opened up the floodgates of bizarre behaviour. 

Her relatives blame me for her troubles. They would never admit that she actually has troubles (as this would be admitting they themselves have issues, ... .  as the area that I reside kinda know that my in-laws are temper-riddden). They blame me b/c I built a wine cellar in our house. Sounds odd, doesn't it? I'm the one to blame for my wife being the alcoholic b/c of a wine cellar.

OPO,

Like me, your wife drinks bc she has to... .  not because of anything anyone else has done in the world to her.

I can play that victim role, as well... .  and I will never quit drinking

There is nothing you can do to cure her alcoholism... .  nothing.

That comes from within

Arn-it's very emotionally validating to read this. My father was/is an alcoholic and tended to blame everyone else for his drinking. When I tried to take the alcohol off him, I was basically considered a "nag" by him really. There was one time I felt really angry and just threw it down the sink. I could see that I had made him angry by doing that but I just thought "screw him" basically... that he deserved it... .  it was a really unpleasant situation to say the least.

[arn131arn]

Thanks.

If I say, "Well, if you had a woman like her at home, you would drink too!"

Or "My boss, sucks so here goes nothing... . "

Thinking this way will ALWAYS put me on a collision course with the rest of the universe.  I no victim.  I chose to drink.  I chose to self medicate rather than seek the truth.

The truth?  I stayed in something knowing full well, I was being hurt.  That I was hurting her, that nothing was changing if nothing was changing.

So it was me and my actions that caused part of this toxic relationship.  Fear of losing her, well I lost her.  Obligated to stay for my son, I am only obligated to myself to be a responsible father, guilt, I refuse to feel guilt over my past, rather look forward to a new chapter in my new sober life.

It's what I do for me, that makes me who I am.  Not her! Not the boss!  Not the parents, siblings, success or failures.  Did she just thin I was going to drink my life away when she left... . ?  I am me, I own me, good and bad, hello world.

Arn

[Iwalk-Heruns]

Yes it's a shame about the enablers. Without them I really think they would have a chance to get help.

I truly believe my ex's family who are major enablers know what is going on but play dumb because they don't want to piss him off because he does so much for them (so that he looks good. A cover) they sacrifice him in order to get their needs met. It's the whole family system thing. They are all dysfunctional and if one gets better it throws off the balance of the whole family. Unfortunate and selfish.

That's the hard part... .  I now know I was/am/have been my H's enabler.  I wish I had realized it at the beginning but it happened before I realized it.  You make an interesting point that if one dysfunctional one gets better it throws off the balance.  We are so engrained in our patterns that I don't think it's actually possible for us to change the balance/dynamic of our relationship.  Sad... .  but true.  The only hope is for us to separate and work on our own issues as we see fit.  I really hope I can stop being an enabler (that I can figure that out with the help of a counselor) but that I can also learn to recognize and avoid people with a personality I am inclined to enable.  It seems to me that to some degree I am who I am and the best I can do is to learn to identify behaviors, speak up when I feel I am wronged, and be willing to move on or lose someone from my life that isn't compatible.  This issue is huge for me.  I don't like to let people go from my life.  It is very hard for me (obviously... .  been with H for 23 years). 

nevaeh,

I wish I could take credit for the idea of the family system but if you've never read about( and any of you who had trouble with their family dynamics) what I described is the Bowen Theory. Basically talking about family dynamics, particularly dysfunctional family dynamics.

It is fascinating and I have seen it in play.

Here is an excerpt from the Bowen Center website. It is widely recognized in the psyciatric profession. He is or was ? A psychiatrist.


Bowen family systems theory is a theory of human behavior that views the family as an emotional unit and uses systems thinking to describe the complex interactions in the unit. It is the nature of a family that its members are intensely connected emotionally. Often people feel distant or disconnected from their families, but this is more feeling than fact. Family members so profoundly affect each other's thoughts, feelings, and actions that it often seems as if people are living under the same "emotional skin." People solicit each other's attention, approval, and support and react to each other's needs, expectations, and distress. The connectedness and reactivity make the functioning of family members interdependent. A change in one person's functioning is predictably followed by reciprocal changes in the functioning of others. Families differ somewhat in the degree of interdependence, but it is always present to some degree.

[musicfan42]

Thanks.

If I say, "Well, if you had a woman like her at home, you would drink too!"

Or "My boss, sucks so here goes nothing... . "

Thinking this way will ALWAYS put me on a collision course with the rest of the universe.  I no victim.  I chose to drink.  I chose to self medicate rather than seek the truth.

I like this part about thinking this way putting you on a collision course with the rest of the universe. I'm going to write that part down as sometimes, I can spend time feeling sorry for myself.

The truth?  I stayed in something knowing full well, I was being hurt.  That I was hurting her, that nothing was changing if nothing was changing.

So it was me and my actions that caused part of this toxic relationship.  Fear of losing her, well I lost her.  Obligated to stay for my son, I am only obligated to myself to be a responsible father, guilt, I refuse to feel guilt over my past, rather look forward to a new chapter in my new sober life.

It's what I do for me, that makes me who I am.  Not her! Not the boss!  Not the parents, siblings, success or failures.  Did she just thin I was going to drink my life away when she left... . ?  I am me, I own me, good and bad, hello world.

Arn

You have a lot of self-awareness. I found that I just got stuck in chaotic relationships... note that I said relationships plural... not just one. It felt like a way of life... that I had no idea what normal really meant. I actually have a post in the building healthy relationships section, asking how can I tell the difference between intense and intimate relationships. That's the thing- I'm only learning a different way now. I'm willing to learn and that's huge but at the same time, it's still really challenging.

I felt that I was just sinking in quick sand... I began to feel powerless... helpless... . that I couldn't get out of the situation I had found myself in so I began having suicidal thoughts, just wanted to stop the pain really. I also self-medicated with alcohol for a while.

[RecycledNoMore]

Ugh, almost the same sickening story here,

Bad day at work(3 yrs employment out of 8), usually a fight with a coworker, who the day before was his best mate, hed come home, try and pick a fight, id be quiet,hed accuse me of not listening, hed throw cups, plates anything at hand, id try to leave, hed block the door, id run to the back door, hed block that too, id cry, that would make him worse, if somehow I got out, hed follow me in the car, driving up on the curb, drive past and cuss me out, if I had anything on me he would take it... .

I can relate to the " trio", Id always keep my moneycard in my bra, my phone in my pocket, and my housekey in my shoe, if I hadnt made it out, id have to just wait it out, sometimes id go into a kind of trance, staring at the wall or the tv, trying to block out the noise.Eventually it would stop, then it would be deathly quiet, he couldnt stand quiet, so hed put on music or the t.v, and the plastic apologies would begin.

F*** I havent thought about this stuff in depth for a lil while, it makes me sick and it hurts.

[Perfidy]

If I were to write down all of the rage she had it would take up every megabyte of webspace on this site and most of the rest of the webspace on the Internet.

[love4meNOTu]

Reading through the posts here has helped me.

I'm not alone.

It's the crazy, glazed over eyes. They haunt me... . so much hate in them. And the smile when he knew he'd frightened me. It was almost inhuman.

I know it's mental illness, but damn, it was frightening.

L

[ogopogodude]

all of us here are a band of brothers. (and sisters).   we have all been thru hell. we share the same experiences, with the same turmoil, ... . but experienced them separately.  but essentially the experiences were the same.

[shellsh0cked]

. She, on the other hand, is surrounded by enablers, in denial, and cannot look inward. It's a shame... . today I feel empathy for her

I had to comment on this too... . She manipulates her family and friends by playing the suicide card.  She's threatened to kill herself about 10 times or more... . If she really wanted to die she would have done it and could have succeeded.  It's a play to keep people from abandoning her.   Talk about denial too... . wow, she sure is in denial.  Mostly because of enablers.  Unfortunately, it's her family too that is even more so in denial about her issue and as a result keep enabling her by bailing her out every time there is a situation instead of EVER letting her feel consequences for anything she does.  They don't even want to talk about it... . which is fine because one thing I have learned about borderlines?  They have to get help for themselves... . No one is going to (or can) make them do it.  It's sad because there are some beautiful qualities she has.  She will never be any better though I am afraid because she is in denial... . and maybe too scared to address it.  She's not my problem anymore.  I couldn't let her stay in my life... . she was killing me. 

[Iwalk-Heruns]

all of us here are a band of brothers. (and sisters).   we have all been thru hell. we share the same experiences, with the same turmoil, ... . but experienced them separately.  but essentially the experiences were the same.

If there was a "Like" button I would click it.  .

[Lucky Jim]

I'm with you there, Ogopogo and Iwalk.  Concerning enabling our BPD SO's, I think that almost by definition you have to be somewhat of an Enabler to be in a r/s with a pwBPD, in order to put up with all the outrageous behavior, rages, drinking, etc.  Most would probably run for the hills, but we Nons have the ability to hang in there, which is not necessarily a bad thing in other contexts, but is a liability in the context of BPD, in my view.  LJ

[Johnny Alias]

Would she RAGE?  Oh yes.  Oh yes indeed.  80% of the time it was when she was drunk... . but then there were also the overboard PMS moments and just losing it over a simple argument. 

Just remember there is like a 50-60% cooccurence of BPD with substance abuse which is more often than not alcohol.  Alcohol lowers inhibitions AND more importantly social coping skills.  BPD's are uninhibited by nature and when alcohol is introduced they are even MORE likely to fly off the handle, pin you to the wall, and RAGE in your face for hours. 

God.  It was horrible to watch.  Almost got thrown off a plane, screamed at me in front of friends, wouldn't let me sleep yelling at the door and following me around, jumping out of moving cars, RAGING at her ex friends and parents, throwing stuff at me, leaving disasters in her wake... . just an absolute train wreck. 

I swear I almost came close to smacking her... . she TRIED to elicit anger out of me.  It was just mind boggling.  And you all are right... . when those eyes glaze over then it is time to RUN.  It will not stop for hours.  You have to leave.  You cant rationalize with a rabid dog. 

Thing is for me the next day she often wouldn't remember or would claim not to.  Blackouts so she said.  Hard to take responsibility for something you don't remember doing right?  Plays perfectly into not being able to take blame.  PERFECTLY.

Plus mine would be hungover the next day and go from Witch mode to Waif mode for a couple days.  My head hurts, my back hurts, my neck is in pain, I can't move.  Can't be bothered to do anything.  I'm said.  BLAH BLAH BLAH.  And I'd run around trying to get her back on her feet so she could go out again and abuse me all over. 

4 YEARS.  JESUS. 

[shellsh0cked]

Would she RAGE?  Oh yes.  Oh yes indeed.  80% of the time it was when she was drunk... . but then there were also the overboard PMS moments and just losing it over a simple argument. 

Just remember there is like a 50-60% cooccurence of BPD with substance abuse which is more often than not alcohol.  Alcohol lowers inhibitions AND more importantly social coping skills.  BPD's are uninhibited by nature and when alcohol is introduced they are even MORE likely to fly off the handle, pin you to the wall, and RAGE in your face for hours. 

God.  It was horrible to watch.  Almost got thrown off a plane, screamed at me in front of friends, wouldn't let me sleep yelling at the door and following me around, jumping out of moving cars, RAGING at her ex friends and parents, throwing stuff at me, leaving disasters in her wake... . just an absolute train wreck. 

I swear I almost came close to smacking her... . she TRIED to elicit anger out of me.  It was just mind boggling.  And you all are right... . when those eyes glaze over then it is time to RUN.  It will not stop for hours.  You have to leave.  You cant rationalize with a rabid dog. 

Thing is for me the next day she often wouldn't remember or would claim not to.  Blackouts so she said.  Hard to take responsibility for something you don't remember doing right?  Plays perfectly into not being able to take blame.  PERFECTLY.

Plus mine would be hungover the next day and go from Witch mode to Waif mode for a couple days.  My head hurts, my back hurts, my neck is in pain, I can't move.  Can't be bothered to do anything.  I'm said.  BLAH BLAH BLAH.  And I'd run around trying to get her back on her feet so she could go out again and abuse me all over. 

4 YEARS.  JESUS. 

Yes, this is true…She was also much more unstable when she was drinking.  Much more violent and hateful.  Much more accusational too.  .  Raging for hours?  I can relate to this too…She was CONVINCED I had the hots for her mother.  Said that at Thankgiving that I was staring at her mom’s chest and flirting with her!  That one still disgusts me.  Never mind we had sex that night, the next morning, the next night and the next morning without so much as a word.   Not until she had time to take a bath in her insecurity and cook that crap up.  Well, upon one of our many breakups, she came to my house a month after that “mother event” and raged on me for about 3 hours screaming about this over and over and over…like a broken freaking record.  She was wasted that night too.  Drove off in a car insured by me…I promptly went to my computer and removed her from my policy…Freak.  She never let me forget it for “humiliating her”.  No one that was there saw what she saw….amazing huh?

Your second paragraph?  She never jumped out of cars, but everything else?  Right on. 

Third paragraph?  She absolutely tried her damndest to get me to hit her…she needed the ammo.  One night she was raging in my face and I pushed her away.  Realized that was WAY too far.  Got in my car and left immediately.  Not going for an episode of COPS in her front yard and me going to jail.  She raged on me till the sun came up…literally. 

Mine called these super insecure, lashing out moments “meltdowns”…but what they really were , were borderline RAGES.  At first she apologized…then she stopped because all of it was “my fault” and I deserved it for the things that “I” did to her (like looking at her mother... whatever).  Can’t tell you how happy I am for her to be out of my life y’all. 

[ogopogodude]

WOW, ... . my wife tried so many times to get out of our care while I was driving... ! (during one of her rages during a commute somewhere).

So very bizarre.

[Johnny Alias]

My condolences on that man.  Truly.  It doesn't get better either... .

I said ex friends remember?  One of her longest at 15 years who had always been there for her... . let me know that her new BF had flipped on her just before thanksgiving and threw her clothes all over their lawn and was going to kick her out... . and me being the white knight sent her a message saying she could stay at my place if she needed to while i was out of town.  

Never heard back.  The ex friend went over to their house a few days after for a party.  THEY WERE BOTH WASTED at 5pm and proceeded to jump on her when she got there and tag team her with verbal abuse.  They accused her and I of having an affair, called her a liar, and his dog bit her daughter HARD.  When she asked to at least see vaccination papers they to her to F off.  Splitting at its finest.    

Her oldest friend... . and she will NEVER speak to her again.  Told me I'm lucky to have the she devil out of my life and that she hates her now.  

It will never stop.  There was NOTHING we could have done.  I was just informed today that the new BF got arrested in a bar fight when she mouthed off to some people.  She was also told that she is NEVER allowed to stay at another friends place again due to her endless craziness.  

I've never known such incredible ANGER at the world and everything in it... . and for mine it is going to get worse.  Not only does she keep drinking more as alcoholism is progressive, but she's 43 and will be premenopausal SOON.  The devil will be out in daylight much much more.  

[fromheeltoheal]

Not only does she keep drinking more as alcoholism is progressive, but she's 43 and will be premenopausal SOON.  The devil will be out in daylight much much more.  

Mine was 45 and menopause was starting, but that was the good news to me.  She was twice as crazy and caustic with PMS, to the point that I would schedule myself to be somewhere else for those 3 or 4 days a month, menstruation vacations I called them.  A bigger issue was she relied on her sexuality for a big part of her allure, and the bloom was off the rose, she knew it, and the added hopelessness of that in her head just added to the fun.  Something major's going to happen, suicide, institutionalization, who knows, but I won't be getting any on me, fer sure.

[shellsh0cked]

Not only does she keep drinking more as alcoholism is progressive, but she's 43 and will be premenopausal SOON.  The devil will be out in daylight much much more. 

Mine was 45 and menopause was starting, but that was the good news to me.  She was twice as crazy and caustic with PMS, to the point that I would schedule myself to be somewhere else for those 3 or 4 days a month, menstruation vacations I called them.  A bigger issue was she relied on her sexuality for a big part of her allure, and the bloom was off the rose, she knew it, and the added hopelessness of that in her head just added to the fun.  Something major's going to happen, suicide, institutionalization, who knows, but I won't be getting any on me, fer sure.

my xgf was like that too.  Getting older and getting less attention.  She’s used to having lots of guys paying attention to her.  Not happening as much anymore which just adds to her insecurity.  I, like you, am wondering when I am going to get a call about something she has done to herself or someone else.

On a side note, I had a girl I was seeing that was like that with the cycle.  Real sweet 27 days or so a month…then the rest of the time, an emotional wreck.  A real pain in my $$.  But she wasn’t a borderline, and I could actually handle her.  I will take a normal chick with PMS any damn day over a borderline….

[Lucky Jim]

Ditto for me and my BPDxW.  All of the above.  Total craziness.  Rages and rampages on a regular basis, often for no good reason.  One of her storm clouds could appear out of a clear blue sky . . .

Lucky Jim