The Hate Behind the Rage and "the look"

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

So my ADD must be in overdrive today because I should be working but I can't focus.  So much on my mind from just the last two days of craziness with my H that my mind is all over the place, trying to make sense of things and figure stuff out.

So in another post, I recounted an incident we had just today.  Essentially, I was upstairs in my home office, H was in the hallway, getting ready to leave for work.  I took a quick break and said, "Hey, just let me know what you didn't get done downstairs and I'll tackle it when I take a break tonight."  So basically, we both overslept today, he had started loading the dishwasher before he left, but I wasn't sure what else was left to do.  We have three pit bulls and they make a mess equivalent to 30 kids with their toys and stuff, and we generally just clean downstairs every day.  I was trying to get an idea of what cleaning I needed to fit in this evening since I'm pulling an all-nighter.  I was totally being nice about it, too, very light and pleasant, so it wasn't that I had tone and ticked him off. 

I didn't even get half of my words out and he turns and walks away from me.  I was soo ticked.  He meanders back to my office door like a minute later and says, "What the hell did you want again?"  Oh, no, he didn't... . but yeah, he did.  So I said, "You know, it is extremely rude to just walk away when I'm in the middle of talking to you."  He said, "What did you say?" raising his voice with a nasty, nasty tone.  I said, "What you just did was rude -- beyond rude, actually.  You don't just walk away when people are speaking to you.  It's just plain rude." 

WOW, if I could properly describe his face I would.  I wish I had a picture.  Seriously, in .2 seconds flat, the most hateful, evil look came over his face.  His eyes got huge, almost like they disappeared and these huge empty holes remained; I swear if it were TV there would have been smoke coming out of his ears, and I promise you all that if looks could kill I would have been dead hours ago.  It was seriously creepy and scary, because it was like in that moment, he seemed capable of anything.  It was almost like he had become possessed or something, like you see on creepy TV shows.  I have never seen anything like it before in all his rages.  It was pretty clear he hated me in that moment... . maybe just hates me all around these days. 

Has anyone else seen "the look"?  Has your pwBPD ever taken it a step further and become physically abusive?  We have never had that issue, but after seeing what I saw today, I totally think he's capable of it.  As a general rule, he's a passive whimp, but today I was scared, and that worries me. 

As a corollary, do any of you find that you spend inordinate amounts of time explaining basic courtesies to your pwBPD?  I swear my husband's mother slept on the job because he is just so incredibly rude all the time.  I find myself constantly saying things like, "Get that door for the old lady with the walker.  Don't walk away when I'm speaking to you.  Make sure you send so-and-so a thank-you card or call them to thank them for all the help they gave us moving furniture. Quit chewing with your mouth open."  I know we have a parent/child dynamic going on because it's seriously like I need to completely reparent him since his mom did nothing but get married, divorce, remarried, divorced -- to the tune of five husbands.  She didn't have time to be a parent because she was always chasing her next meal ticket.  But I am getting fed up having to reparent a 43-year-old man who seriously has no manners, no understanding of basic courtesy, and constantly breaks rules of society and laws because he doesn't believe they apply to him. 

[karma_gal]

So my ADD must be in overdrive today because I should be working but I can't focus.  So much on my mind from just the last two days of craziness with my H that my mind is all over the place, trying to make sense of things and figure stuff out.

So in another post, I recounted an incident we had just today.  Essentially, I was upstairs in my home office, H was in the hallway, getting ready to leave for work.  I took a quick break and said, "Hey, just let me know what you didn't get done downstairs and I'll tackle it when I take a break tonight."  So basically, we both overslept today, he had started loading the dishwasher before he left, but I wasn't sure what else was left to do.  We have three pit bulls and they make a mess equivalent to 30 kids with their toys and stuff, and we generally just clean downstairs every day.  I was trying to get an idea of what cleaning I needed to fit in this evening since I'm pulling an all-nighter.  I was totally being nice about it, too, very light and pleasant, so it wasn't that I had tone and ticked him off. 

I didn't even get half of my words out and he turns and walks away from me.  I was soo ticked.  He meanders back to my office door like a minute later and says, "What the hell did you want again?"  Oh, no, he didn't... . but yeah, he did.  So I said, "You know, it is extremely rude to just walk away when I'm in the middle of talking to you."  He said, "What did you say?" raising his voice with a nasty, nasty tone.  I said, "What you just did was rude -- beyond rude, actually.  You don't just walk away when people are speaking to you.  It's just plain rude." 

WOW, if I could properly describe his face I would.  I wish I had a picture.  Seriously, in .2 seconds flat, the most hateful, evil look came over his face.  His eyes got huge, almost like they disappeared and these huge empty holes remained; I swear if it were TV there would have been smoke coming out of his ears, and I promise you all that if looks could kill I would have been dead hours ago.  It was seriously creepy and scary, because it was like in that moment, he seemed capable of anything.  It was almost like he had become possessed or something, like you see on creepy TV shows.  I have never seen anything like it before in all his rages.  It was pretty clear he hated me in that moment... . maybe just hates me all around these days. 

Has anyone else seen "the look"?  Has your pwBPD ever taken it a step further and become physically abusive?  We have never had that issue, but after seeing what I saw today, I totally think he's capable of it.  As a general rule, he's a passive whimp, but today I was scared, and that worries me. 

As a corollary, do any of you find that you spend inordinate amounts of time explaining basic courtesies to your pwBPD?  I swear my husband's mother slept on the job because he is just so incredibly rude all the time.  I find myself constantly saying things like, "Get that door for the old lady with the walker.  Don't walk away when I'm speaking to you.  Make sure you send so-and-so a thank-you card or call them to thank them for all the help they gave us moving furniture. Quit chewing with your mouth open."  I know we have a parent/child dynamic going on because it's seriously like I need to completely reparent him since his mom did nothing but get married, divorce, remarried, divorced -- to the tune of five husbands.  She didn't have time to be a parent because she was always chasing her next meal ticket.  But I am getting fed up having to reparent a 43-year-old man who seriously has no manners, no understanding of basic courtesy, and constantly breaks rules of society and laws because he doesn't believe they apply to him. 

[still_smiling_just]

I've seen those eyes too. They're not the eyes of the person I met originally, and not the eyes of someone who looks at me with love. They scare me too. The word demonic comes to mind...

[maxsterling]

Her demeanor definitely changes when she rages, and it's quite rapid, and quite frightening.  It's like she turns into a werewolf, or the incredible hulk. I remember once being in the car with her, and having a pleasant conversation and I good day.  And then she brought up something that troubled me, and I addressed it, and then I watched as her happy demeanor turned into a rage demeanor in seconds.  It's like the steam filler her head, her face changed shape, her eyes bulged, the muscles tightened and the lines appeared.  She screamed for hours, spit flying out of her mouth like a monster.  And yes, it is a precursor to violence.  The next time that happed, I told her that I was not going to take her screaming, picked up my pillow and left the bedroom.  She chased after me and attacked me in the hallway.  I never thought she would get to the point of actually punching me.

Your second part relating to manners - tell me about it!  it seems like all those little things my parents taught me about being nice to others, saying please and thank you, saying "May I" instead of "Can I" she never learned.  So at the dinner table it is "can I have the beans?" instead of "would you please pass the beans?"  I can deal with it, but what's difficult is she is quick to recognize those who show poor manners to her, and she steams over it.

[charred]

My exBPDgf was scary when mad... most pure rage/hatred I have ever seen. When she was idealizing... it seemed a bit phony, when clingy... there was some truth to it but it still seemed a bit over the top... but when she was hating... it was 100% consistent, real... every fiber of her being was mad.

Have often described my exBPDgf as a Jodi Arias clone/twin... . if you saw the look... no one would doubt she was capable of stabbing or killing someone.

Most people in a r/s hold back when arguing... because they plan on spending rest of life with someone... was married 22 yrs... and we argued... but it was never 1/10th as intense... my pwBPD held back nothing.

My conclusion from it all... the nice/idealizing persona... totally an act, the clinginess reflects how they feel, but is partly an act... the raging hater... is the true personality raring its ugly head. It was re-reading the hateful notes and picturing that scary face that helped me stay NC this last year and a half.

[Free2Bee]

Oh yes, I know the look :-(

During a rage episode, my partner's eyes turned into dark wells of hatred. She has blue eyes, but they totally seemed black when she was angry. I've never seen a colder face - her stare could have frozen a glass of water solid. It was shocking and frightening. The air around her seemed to change.

It almost made me wonder if she had multiple personalities - her persona while in a rage was SO different from how she was the rest of the time, almost like a different person. Even her voice was different: flat and lacking emotion.

[karma_gal]

Yes, demonic! That is exactly the right word to describe it.

I usually don't spend a lot of time brooding about things, because usually there is another incident in quick succession and there isn't time, but I could not get that look, those eyes out of my mind even as I tried to go to sleep. I think it was probably just the fear I felt in the moment behind it because I was honestly scared.

Charred, since a few of us have seen it and felt it I think you are probably right that this is the real them rearing it's ugly head. It is weird because I have said a lot that my husband is powered by anger and evil simply because he is never happy and always mad about something. Those words rang out in my head last night because turns out they were so dead on.  If that is the case, I worry about him (and me and my son and society) because anyone who is that angry is a time bomb waiting to explode and I imagine when it happens it won't be pretty.

Max, it worries me a bit since you indicated in your experience the look has been a precursor to violence. Our SOs seem to be cut from the same cloth and share so many similarities it is scary. How do you handle her when she gets to that point? I would imagine anything and everything would only fuel the fire more and give them cause to rage more. People have always joked that they had no doubt I could "handle" my H if I needed to - I used to be in law enforcement and am not a wimpy girl - but after what I saw yesterday I don't believe I could do much of anything if he escalated physically. I have seen the aftermath of rage attacks like that and it hasn't been pretty. Most anyone is defenseless against real crazy.

With regard to the manners, I am with you, I can overlook it and deal most of the time, but every once in a while I just reach my limit of being treated so badly and rudely that I spout off like I did yesterday. I seriously will never understand how they got this far in life acting the way they do without someone decking them for their rudeness.

[maxsterling]

How I handle potential violence - in short, I get the hell out of there ASAP. Adrenaline kicks in, and it gets me out of there before even thinking about it. 

The first time I really saw her rage, she was violent towards herself,  And she threw something at me.  I called the police, and she raged at the police.  So beginning then, my gut told me the potential was there, but my brain did not believe it.  Now, I know it is a possibility, and I fear it.  Sometimes my thoughts take me back to one of those nasty "fights" where I felt attacked.  Sometimes I am so sure it is going to happen again on a particular night, that I call some friends in advance and let them know my girlfriend is in a bad mood, and I may need help later.  Sometimes the anticipation and fear is debilitating, and I have a hard time turning my car into the driveway to come home.  That may be a bit irrational, as I truly don't think she is capable of serious harm.  But then again, I really don't know. She gets really out of control. 

If I see anger or hear a raised voice, I know there is no way I can calm her down.  I bolt. 

[karma_gal]

How I handle potential violence - in short, I get the hell out of there ASAP. Adrenaline kicks in, and it gets me out of there before even thinking about it. 

The first time I really saw her rage, she was violent towards herself,  And she threw something at me.  I called the police, and she raged at the police.  So beginning then, my gut told me the potential was there, but my brain did not believe it.  Now, I know it is a possibility, and I fear it.  Sometimes my thoughts take me back to one of those nasty "fights" where I felt attacked.  Sometimes I am so sure it is going to happen again on a particular night, that I call some friends in advance and let them know my girlfriend is in a bad mood, and I may need help later.  Sometimes the anticipation and fear is debilitating, and I have a hard time turning my car into the driveway to come home.  That may be a bit irrational, as I truly don't think she is capable of serious harm.  But then again, I really don't know. She gets really out of control. 

If I see anger or hear a raised voice, I know there is no way I can calm her down.  I bolt. 

That's what I was thinking was going to be the solution, just getting out of Dodge.  I am going to take some time tonight while he is gone and make an "emergency" bag for my car.  As I said, I work here, and I work a lot, so I often don't leave simply because I don't have time to knock off work and leave my computer behind because I know he will destroy it.  In fact, he's gotten really cagey with my computer lately, since I took on some new governmental work and the security measures they require are stringent, as it should be.  He has flipped out two or three times in the past week that my computer is "locked" and he can't get on it.  He has no reason to, obviously, because it's my work computer, but he did go through my history a week or so ago and saw me visiting another marriage site and has quoted my posts verbatim to me as a way to get riled up.  I don't want him to find me here, so I've been doubly careful about computer security. 

I totally get what you're saying, though, about the anticipation and fear being debilitating because I feel that way myself sometimes.  If I talk to him on the phone and can tell he's in one of his moods, I have near panic attacks when it gets close to time for him to come home because I know what kind of night we're going to have.  My PCP tells me all the time that more than half my probably is that I live in fight-or-flight mode all the time because I never know what kind of mood he's going to be in or what kind of hell we're going to go through that night.  I'm sure our bodies can't sustain this long-term.  It is far from healthy.

I'm more curious how you have managed to keep a core group of friends since isolation is one of pwBPD's strong suits.  I lost mine years ago, and it is my one goal for the year, to rebuild a support system because God knows I need one.  I have great friends, but none that live close and so they aren't going to be much help if the crap hits the fan, you know.  Given that she's raging, usually, to begin with, doesn't it further infuriate her when you leave, and worse if you meet up with friends? 

As a side note and back to the manners issue we were talking about.  I was downstairs doing some quick chores before I settled in to work for the night.  My H gets a phone call from the guy who is his helper on the job he's running for work.  Obviously I could only hear his side of the conversation but it went something like this, in a really nasty "whatever" kind of tone.  "Yeah, yeah.  I get it.  Yeah.  I said just do what you've got to do.  I don't want to hear it; just do what you've got to do.  I've got bigger issues to deal with."  When he got off the phone I asked him why he was so short and rude to the guy.  He was like, his grandpa is in the hospital dying and he isn't coming in tonight.  He is totally screwing me up on this job and it's going to come down on my head and I'm sick of listening to him whine.  We have a job to do and he needs to be there.  He should've visited his grandpa during his off hours.  I was speechless.  I have known for a while that empathy wasn't his strong suit, but seriously?  I hope this guy says something to their supervisor because it was so rude and uncalled for. 

Of course, the underlying issue is that my H knows he is not capable of running a job site and didn't back out when given the chance.  So he's taken on this huge project that is way beyond his skills and abilities -- in terms of thinking and planning and managing; he's actually good at his actual job -- and everybody is griping at him because he over-promised and is way under-delivering.  Now, of course, his story is it's this guy's fault; in fact, it's the grandfather's fault because he chose to die at an inconvenient time.  Never mind that he's only had the helper for four days and has been on the job for weeks now.  The finger pointing begins again.

He's just never going to learn. 

[karma_gal]

"Half my problem."  Sorry, I have a text expander on my computer to make me type faster and hit the wrong sequence of keys

[maxsterling]

Of course she hates it when I just take off.  I'm told the best way to handle it is to state, "I do not wish to continue with this conversation right now.  I am leaving and going to xyz and will be back when you are calmer.  Of course, in the face of fear, I just say "I'm not going to take those hurtful words" and just leave.  And that makes her feel like I am leaving for good, and that is when she chases me down and starts screaming the "I hate you". 

I maintain close friendships because I made close friends before I met her.  Most live very close to me, pass by my house every day, and know I am a kind and decent person.  And while I used to see these friends regularly, I don't see them much anymore, but I do stay in contact with them via phone or email.  I am 100% open with them regarding what I am going through. 

[maxen]

hi again karma gal.

WOW, if I could properly describe his face I would.  I wish I had a picture.  Seriously, in .2 seconds flat, the most hateful, evil look came over his face.  His eyes got huge, almost like they disappeared and these huge empty holes remained; I swear if it were TV there would have been smoke coming out of his ears, and I promise you all that if looks could kill I would have been dead hours ago.  It was seriously creepy and scary, because it was like in that moment, he seemed capable of anything.  It was almost like he had become possessed or something, like you see on creepy TV shows.  I have never seen anything like it before in all his rages.  It was pretty clear he hated me in that moment... . maybe just hates me all around these days. 

Has anyone else seen "the look"? 

yes, i have, but it was after it was over. redfaced, hard, barking with venom. i wasn't afraid of violence - during the marriage she was passive-aggressively violent and by this point any more of that would make no difference. but i have seen the look. she said later in emails that she will "always care for your heart" and we even talked once about reconciliation but nobody who had that look could possibly have any care left in them.

I'm told the best way to handle it is to state, "I do not wish to continue with this conversation right now.  I am leaving and going to xyz and will be back when you are calmer.  Of course, in the face of fear, I just say "I'm not going to take those hurtful words" and just leave.  And that makes her feel like I am leaving for good

early on i used to get frustrated to the point of getting loud, and i caught myself and came to that method. i put a plan in place that i would announce "i'm going to go outside and walk around for about an hour," and i did that a few times and then found it in myself to stay and try to be mollifying. but when she bolted she explicitly cited my habit of leaving as a reason - though i'd stopped even that years earlier. once you go it's the abandonment trigger and they (or at least mine) never forget it.

[Seneca]

dunno about the physical violence. not a lot of folks mention it on these boards. my husband has spit in my face twice, got in my face and screamed at me, strong armed doors and such so i couldn't leave... . but never laid a hand on me. i don't think he would. one never knows though.

yes to the crazy eyed demon. also, yes to the dysregulation face... . pinched lips, averted eyes, aura of quiet anger. he doesn't look like that when he's "normal", but as soon as i see that face, i know he is spiraling away from me... . and no matter what i do, i cannot bring him back. he will only return to normal after he rages. this could take weeks to get to. and everyday i tiptoe around, waiting for the explosion.

[maryy16]

I too know "the look".  It is the most evil look.  And another thing I have noticed is that my H doesn't usually make too much eye contact when in his "normal" state, but when he is raging he gets that evil look and stares right into my eyes while spewing his hatred for me. Very scary!

[Surrender]

I know that look all too well. I find in my experience with my UBPD boyfriend he is highly selfish and thinks often that if he only had himself to worry about that life would be easier yet he loves me and so I have become his Achilles heel. He can't deny that life without me is worse even though he tries to convince himself that it would be much easier.

Like yours, mine doesn't always think of being polite or doing the right things but yet at the same time he has this high expectation of how we are supposed to conduct ourselves in public when we are taken. He judges harshly but when he himself forgets to do something than it's just excusable.

As for the 'devil's eye' I have encountered this with my lover many times when he rages. If I push his buttons and challenge him than it is like he is taken over by some 'demon' and I am left trying to comprehend who the heck I'm talking to or yelling at rather.

My temper is just as fierce which I believe in some ways has just exasperated him because I'm a fighter by nature and don't back down not even to men. So this only has caused more problems because our fights have become volatile. You asked about abuse? I have also abused him ... . he hit me once in a fit of rage, jealousy and psychosis when he thought I had betrayed him but I have in turn hit, slapped him I don't even know how many times in my own fit of anger and outrage for the injustice perpetuated against me from his own misconceptions and bizarre reasoning's.

From my own trauma I disconnect when I feel that the person I love is hurting me or making me feel unsafe with them. This causes me to disassociate and then I have zero recollection of what I just did or said when we fight. I trigger him when he fears that I will hurt him and he in turn triggers me with his pushing and pulling that he will leave me. We are both suffering the effects of our own trauma's and triggering each other.

Sometime I think that I have some borderline symptoms but without being full on borderline and he is just plain and simple full on borderline. Together we are each others dreams and nightmares.

I know for myself I have suffered amnesia many times with trauma in my life and he is the only person that has been able to trigger that in me since 20 years ago.

[Changed4safety]

Simply reading about this caused my heart rate to skyrocket.  Oh yes, I know that look.  It was usually followed by the cruelest, most vicious things he can possibly manage to say.   He goes in for the kill.  It did escalate to physical violence.  He was slender, but taller than I am, but I never resisted.  I always went completely limp or passive, because I knew if I struggled, he'd come after me, and it would be on.  He choked me, which I have learned is worse than punching, as it can get out of hand so quickly and result in brain damage or death.

It's been a year since I've been out of that, and I'm very, very glad I left.  Every day.  No matter what happens, I'm so much happier alone than in that relationship.  He liked to play the "victim" but was the biggest bully I have ever met.  And when he raged, yes, I would use the word "evil." 

As for manners, it was kind of the opposite--he used me, denigrated me, broke my things and attacked me, but by God, he was going to pull out my chair for me.  Woe was unto me if I forgot to pause and let him open the door for me--he'd snarl and lash out.  He never got the irony in that!  I would much prefer someone letting me pull out my own chair than screaming at me.

I'm dating again, and I am becoming very vigilant.  I know the  and I will not have them in my life.  I won't  be screamed at, have my things or my person put in harm's way, or be disrespected. 

God, that look... . *shudders* I think it's worse than a demon, because it came from someone who, at one time, I loved with all my heart.