Do they rage to try to silence us?

[LittleThings]

   I finally got the courage to ask our BPDDD, 19, for her pot accessories... . bong, pipe, and thing she blows the smoke into. She told me she'd bring it down after she ate her sandwich and brought it upstairs.

I was downstairs cleaning and smelled it, so went straight upstairs where she had the window open and she'd just finished smoking. My blood was boiling and I said I couldn't believe she'd smoke in our house with me right downstairs, no less, when she knew the rules were no pot... . I'd told her 6 months ago, and again a month ago. She said she figured she'd have one last hurrah. Some nerve, right?

I demanded to have all the "stuff" then and there and asked for the pot. When she said it was all gone, I asked for the empty baggie, and she gave it to me.

I said that if it is too difficult to follow our house rules she is free to leave. She'd earlier told me her therapist said she might benefit from a change in scenery, and told her there are places she can go to get some sort of housing. (?) I asked why she hadn't made the call.

She has also just gone on a gay dating site and hooked up with a girl from the next town over... . going on dates. I expressed my dismay, not at her choices, but at her priority of finding a date instead of a job, and she may not use my car for anything other than work or necessary appointments.

Fast forward a few days. My husband said a fairly stupid comment (a bit sexist and directed at the audience of a TV show we were watching, not at her) that I think warranted a mild apology, but instead of eliciting one in a reasonable manner, my daughter lit right into him, tearing him apart and blaming him for every wrong ever committed by every man my DD has ever dated or has ever said something sexist or stupid. She said. "It's probably one reason I might be gay."

She tore him apart and gave him no time to respond, or talk... . just wanted to rage, to put him in his place and unleash anger that apparently has been building, or that needed to come out.

She also told me later what a horrible Dad he's been. Brought up a time when my DH grabbed my son's arm when he was maybe 5 yrs. old... . cannot remember why, but I'm sure it was to prevent him from doing something dangerous. I've grabbed his arm before as well. Geez. Why do they bring this stuff up?

My DH is not one to shrink in the face of her rage, or at least not now, after years of dealing with it.

He held his own and was clear about not having someone up in his face, screaming at him.

There have been no apologies. Just adds to the "walking on eggshells".

One thing my DH and I have discussed is that she seems to lash out whenever we are expecting anything of her. She is behind on car insurance payments, and has not found a job that will give her more than 3-4 hr/week since xmas. And no more pot. Door open or it comes off the hinges.

She is running out of options. She has yet to do the DBT, but her diagnosis has changed (this past month) from bipolar, to major depressive disorder and BPD.

Are we doing the right things?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[crazedncrazymom]

Hi Littlethings,

I commend you and your husband for sticking to that boundary.  It's hard to do those things like demand the pot supplies knowing it might cause her to go off in a rage.  Even now, when I ask my daughter for something I'm just cringing inside because I don't know how she will react.  I do however know that if she starts yelling I can leave the room.  We have a rule in our house that we don't rage at each other.  It is perfectly acceptable to say... time out and walk away.  Everyone knows what that means.  It's amazing how in the past I would have considered walking away to be giving in, giving up and letting the other person win because they were able to chase me away.  However, setting that rule in place.  Time out... . It means you've gone over the line and I'm not going to listen anymore until everyone is calm. 

[jellibeans]

Dear littlethings

I have to agree with crazed... . timeout work great in our house. I can't stop my dd from raging but I can walk away and leave the room... . I have even gotten in my car and left the house at times to try and defuse the situation. Learning some of these tools to defuse would be helpful.

Have you ever thought of calling the police? If my daughter smoked pot in my home I would have called the police and reported her. There have to be consequences!

Is your daughter in therapy? Is she getting help? Do you have boundaries in place? I would even write them down so she can see them in writing.

What helps my situation is that I have really tried to reduce the conflict and especially the power struggles... . there has to be less of you trying to make her do what you want and more consequence for when she goes against rules and the law for that matter. Have you read the book Overcoming BPD by Valerie Porr?

[LittleThings]

We do need to establish time out!

She does have therapist and is in the process of switching psychiatrists. I know she makes our home out to be an awful place to live. No freedom, we have too many rules/expectations and yes consequences. We even ask her to be respectful.

And yet she seems to have no problem laying around all day when she doesn't work. Or going out with friends/gf when they are available. It's a lifestyle that we have a difficult time seeing, and we feel taken advantage of much of the time... . when we bring this up in any way it is the same old story "I want to leave so you don't have to see this, because I'm a piece of ---t. I hurt everyone I come in contact with. I can't help it, it's the way my brain works."

When I mention she doesn't have to be this way and that she can learn new ways to be/think/cope (DBT), she says, "I can't handle it right now, especially since I have to work!"

We are trying to be patient, but it is wearing thin.

Will order Porr's book right away. Thank you!

[Eclaire5]

We are on exactly the same boat Littlethings. It is awful to be home, I actually dread at times leaving work (my safe haven) because I never know what to expect. Our daughter is 20 and has the same type of lifestyle (except for the bisexual part, as far as I know) that your daughter has. She is enrolled in beauty school, but is so behind in her hours that it will take her double time to finish. When she misses school she just messes up the whole house with snacks and clothes and does not do a thing, but watch TV or be on the internet! I totally get your frustration because we are experiencing the same situation, with the rages and the erratic lifestyle. We have written up the rules and she follows the main ones (no drugs in the house, no asking for cash, and not bringing people home), but the other ones, such as not making a mess all the time or going to school are not followed. We no longer pick fights over the little things and take time out as much as we need to. I noticed that when I just listen and try to understand what she is saying, she calms down much quicker. What a nightmare we live in uh? But as bad as things can get I still have hope…

[LittleThings]

Yes, at times it seems we do live a nightmare.

I did listen to her defense of breaking the rules-(If she falls behind in paying for car insurance, it may not be used for anything other than work or necessary appts.) as calmly as possible.

Her response was what am I supposed to do, sit around alone? I need to go out and see friends/gf. All my other friends are in school and too busy. (she has the new gf from the online dating site, who has also left college) We never stop her from getting picked up in someone else's car... .

She always has a response that illustrates what a poor thing she is that no one has time for her, and that she is all alone... . my DH and I work, and my 15 yr old is in HS.

In reality she cannot be happy if she doesn't have a bf/gf. It's a pattern that has been going on since she was 14. It has most likely filled her fear of being alone and stunted her growth at the same time. She is a fundamentally unhappy person on her own  She is far worse when she is single, sleeping all day, self loathing, suicidal ideation. Last breakup sent her to the dating website within days. We thought she was actually looking for a job, but she wasn't, she was looking for a date.

I just drew up a contract which I hope will take the personal/emotional out of the picture... . they are rules, plain and simple. Car/ins/chores to avoid rent charge/guests/school/work/cell/respect... . failure to abide will result in removal of privileges/fees/alternate living arrangements. Problem is that my DH does not want to present a contract. He feels it is too draconian. I feel as though she won't try if she has no consequences.

She didn't actually look for a job (that gave her more than 3 hrs/wk) until I brought up the lacking ins. payments and the rules we verbally established months ago... . and of course is now more behind than before.

She also has a student loan that is due. That one is not my problem. I am already paying a student loan I took out for her education. I have told her I don't have a problem with trying to help her get an education. She got a 2090 on her SATs.

I'm sure many many of the people on this site feel the same way I do... . as though I am turning into a different person due to all this stress and it is hard to drag myself out of bed each day after my brain has been on overload all night, hard to come home from work not knowing what I will find my daughter doing or not doing.

I know it is my responsibility to take care of myself.  Also know I need to detach from the situation, but I never knew how hard that would prove.

I wonder if others question whether or not we are obligated to "watch the show", to provide a place where our own children deceive us and also themselves?

I know she is ill, but I don't believe her lack of wanting to change is something I'm prepared to tolerate for much longer. Can we in reality ask them to make an effort to change?

[JustWantMyJoyBack]

LittleThings  ,

I know exactly how you feel.

Especially the DD relationship thing and sitting around watching t.v. and doing nothing.

From the time my DD was 14 yrs old, her obsession with boys (maybe even girls) was unmistakeable.  I won't go into the barrage of events that just about sent me out of my mind; however, here are a few:  skipping school & staying in her room with a boyfriend (house keeper found them... . ), at 17 yrs old, saw a 24 yr old man and used her own aunt's house for a meeting place... . ugh... . that's just two horrible events.

I choose not to "watch the show" anymore.  I did my duty as a parent to get her prepared for adult life.  Unfortunately, she's 25 yrs old and has the emotional intelligence/capabilities of a 13 yr old.

Keep focusing on taking care of yourself.

JustWantMyJoyBack     

[LittleThings]

Than you Joy!

Where does your daughter live?

Did you ever have a contract for her when she lived at home?

Do you have any contact with her now?

[JustWantMyJoyBack]

My DD lives about 5 miles from me.  Married with one nonBPD 3 yr old son and inherited one 5 yr old step-daughter.  

Absolutely I had a contract.  Especially when she was in high school.  She was failing.  So during HS the rules were:  1) each Friday a written note from each teacher letting me know if all her assignments were complete and grades were "passing".  If report given to me by Friday, she had privileges for the weekend.  If no reports, no privileges.

Once she was 19 & moved out, then back in, then back out... . yes, there were rules/contract.  The mains rules were: 1) No guests in our house without our permission 2) room and bathroom kept tidy 3) If she would be out all night... . simply text us.

She did have a job at that time and we held her responsible for her cell phone bill and car insurance.  When living with us we didn't charge rent (probably should have).  When living in one of our rental properties, she had to sign a rental agreement (like everyone else) and actually paid rent on time.  However, we got LOTS of complaints from neighbors about loud music and huge parties at the rental property.  We had to set boundaries on that too.

During her 18-21 yr old years, she TRASHED the car I paid for and gave her (another hard lesson for me).  Currently, the car her husband bought her is pretty trashed now as well.  Ugh!

Right now I have limited contact.  Usually text and a really quick phone call to arrange visits with my grand son.

Since our last episode, January 2014,  NC seems to work well with her.  I just set boundaries and gently send texted to check on her.  Then, she starts slowly toward the quick phone calls.  

JustWantMyJoyBack    

[Eclaire5]

I don’t think a contract would be a draconian thing to do. It has worked fairly well with us and when she begins to insist for a ride or cash we bring up that piece of paper and gets mad for a second but she gets it and stops demanding for what she wants.

Taking care of ourselves is the most important thing to do because if we are not well, then we are not able to help them. After four years of hell I finally broke a couple of weeks ago and had to start taking an anti-depressant. Like you, it was hard to get out of bed, go to work, or any other activity. The only thing I felt like doing was to just zone out and do nothing. I made an appointment with my doctor and she put me on Prozac. It has only been a week, but I can already see some effects, so hopefully in another few weeks I can get back to normal. It is the first time I have to take stuff like that, but I just couldn’t do it on my own anymore. I am also going to schedule an appointment with a counselor. I saw one in Germany when our daughter started acting out and it helped.

Hang in there and remember that you are not alone. We are here to support each other, because it is only us who understand what we all go through. Parents of “normal” children or even mental health providers do not know what is like to be the parent of a BPD child because they do not experience what we go through. It’s tough, but we are still here 

[js friend]

Hi Little Things,

We tried a behavioural contact as well as displaying the house rules in a place where dd19 could see them every day, but it never stoped or altered her behaviour. Fair to say she broke every one of them and said that we were only trying to control her and stop her from having friends and fun.She left home when she was 17 and now lives with on and off bf and gd.

The "show" still continues but as it isnt in my home anymore I dont get involved.So much easier to do now she is  no longer my roof .I told her that  I dont want to know what is going on over there unless it involves life or death stiuation.

Of course she now tells people that I dont care about her and have told her this. Yep her interpretation of what I actually said , but so far she and b/f have been complying with this  boundry for over a year now... . so now I dont have endless tearful phone calls in the night anymore or b/f calling me up to ask me to speak to her to sort things out between them.Having that boundry has definitley gone towards making my emotional wellbeing much calmer.I know how difficult to get our dd's/ds to respect our boundries when they are living with us thats for sure so you have my sympathies. Been there done that as they say... . but you have to stick to them, because they are  much about protecting us and our values than forcing  our pwBPDs to comply.Another thing my dd used to do that drove us all crazy was just take things out of our bedrooms  without asking. could be clothes, makeup, toiltries, books... . whatever.! Yet this issue was a biggie on the houserules... . that everyone should respect each others stuff and and ask to use or borrow it... . It came up time and time again because of dd yet she just continued doing it... . she had such an overwhelming sense of entitlement .

I know exactly how you feel Littlethings that it gets into your every waking and even sleeping moments, and I can tell you that if my dd hadnt have gone when she did it wouldnt have been much longer before I would have told her to leave.

Oh yeh the raging stuff too. I find that when my dd begins to rage if I say something like "dd Im gonna say something that you probably wont like now... . " and that usually quietens her down, and actaullly gets ger to listen.

Other times I have actually asked her to leave the room or leave my home when she has been abusive.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

Dear Littlethings

Some here on this site have made a list of values rather than a contract based solely on behavior. I would be careful how you list your demends... . I am not sure I understand what they are from your post because they are short form.

here are a couple of mine... .

She is to go to school and be passing... . comsequence= no car

She has really only one chore which is taking out the garbage ... . if she doesn't do this then no allowance. She can earn extra money by doing extra jobs around the house. She is expected to keep here room clean but I really don't make a big deal about it. It is here room and if she wants to lay around with dishes everywhere then so be it. This I feel is a good approach... . the less I can get into a power struggle with her the best. She ususally does clean it once a week because she has a friend coming over so it doesn't get too bad.

She can go sleepover friends house but I need mother's cell and confirmation she if there for the night. If it is a new friend the first sleepover is at our house.

Some other things that are on our list but not writen down are... .

If she self harms or takes pills to overdose then she goes to ER

If she runs away we will call the police

If she wants to be on twitter I must be her friend and be able to read her posts... . I also have the right to tell her to take something down if I find it offensive... . this happens once in a while... . mostly to post typical teen stuff. She can lose her phone if her posts are not nice and this has happened.

If she becomes verbally abusive and she is unable to calm herself I will take her phone from her but this is really not something I do often because she can become very upset.

Some things that use to concern me but I ignore now are

Eating habits... She rarely eats with us... . she likes to eat out and mostly fast food... . she is very concerned about her weight... . I really try not to focus on this at all even when she is so excited to tell me she lost weight.

Go to bed at night... . I use to have to tell her to go to bed but I don't... . if she is too tired in the morning then tough... . she still goes to school

Keeping room clean... . it is her room and as long she is not don't damage then I am fine with what ever shape it is in.

Sleeping in... . I will wake her in the morning to take meds but she is welcomed to go back to sleep if she wants. The school week takes a lot out of her so I know she needs sleep.


I think there must be a way to encourgae your dd to do the things you want without being too harsh. Your dd is 25 years old? It might be time for her to move out on her own. Have you suggested that to her? It probably would do her good to be on her own. It must be very disheartening to be living at home at her age... . she is not experiencing the joy of finding an apartment and shopping for herself etc... . Why has this not been suggested?

I just want you to be careful about how you word the contract... . I have reading that people with BPD do not respond well to contracts... .

[LittleThings]

Eclaire5,

 

Thanks for the extra support on the contract. My DH  just agreed we need something in writing so there are fewer questions and "whining/crying".

So far, I have been managing with exercise, diet and vitamins. I take magnesium to help with sleep. Works well most of the time. My DH is a very understanding man which is a godsend.

And, we have a wonderful son, who understands we are the parents, and just seems to get what is inherently right. He is polite, funny, personable, lovable, and smart as a whip. He makes good decisions on a daily basis, and can take advice if needed. It isn't fair to him to have to see the dysfunction and I hope he can rise above it to be everything he can be. Some days a smile or a joke from him is a ray of sunshine in a cloud of despair.

But there are times where I feel myself coming unglued. My Nurse Practitioner and I discussed what was going on in my life and she said she'd be happy to write a scrip, but suggested SAMe first (a supplement that may help mild depression).

I haven't tried it yet, but may.

My counselor left the practice I was going to, so am currently without one. I really loved her, she was so helpful to my DH and I. I think i will call and set up time with a new one. So hard to start from the beginning with another one!

She also suggested i find a support group and here I am.

js friend,

I guess the contract is the first step. I admire your strength. You are right on that it's about our own sanity and values rather than controlling them. They get to choose whether they can stay or not based on their actions, in the end.

What you say about entitlement is true. Many times at the grocery store she tosses things into the cart that are just for her, and pricey. She is a vegetarian, so requires some special foods. She just "warned" me about some new buzz haircut she is going to get (for shock value?), with no money of course, intimating that I should pay for it... . or allow her to shortchange us on the car ins. pay't. so she can have fun $.

I am so thankful for all the understanding, compassion and help that exists on this board.  You all know where I'm coming from more than anyone.

[LittleThings]

jellibeans, here is the contract:

Contract for an Adult Living at              Household

This contract was set forth on         in order to establish rules for       while living in this household. This contract runs from this date till or prior when the above party leaves to another living situation. On this date the contract will be reviewed if the above party is still in residence. Both mom and dad reserve the right to change this contract at any time and as a courtesy will give their , 5 days notice before the change takes effect.

1. Rent: I am aware that I will not be charged rent as long as I comply with all of the rules below and complete all of chores given to me. If I choose not to take part in the chores that I have been given then I will pay $200 a month to cover rent. If I do not pay rent right away then fees and interest will be applied to the $200. If I am any way disrespectful to my parents or other members of the household than I may be subjected to fines or extra chores.

2. Cooking, laundry and chores: I agree to complete the following list of chores in order to help out in the household and to avoid any rent charges. I will be responsible for taking down my laundry once a week. I am also responsible for my own personal space and will keep it orderly. I will be provided cooked meals as long as I help the cook with dishes and clean up after myself or others when the kitchen is in need of it. Other chores to avoid paying rent include:

1. Dusting

2. Washing the floor

3. Cleaning the bathroom

4. Vacuuming requested areas

5. Walking/bathing the dog

6. Express appreciation for the help you are receiving from any family member;

7. No use of street drugs (or any drug not prescribed for me) or alcohol while living in the household.

3. School: I agree to attend school regularly if/when enrolled and complete all of my school work as stated by the syllabus. If I fall behind in my classes or school work then I will put all of my effort into completing it. If I fail to do any of the above then I may be subject to paying for rent.

4. Guests and quiet hours: Household quiet hours run from 11:00 p.m. to 6 a.m., unless otherwise arranged. No overnight guests. Any visits from guests will be approved on an individual basis, and will remain in the common areas of the house. I will never have a guest appear unapproved.

5. Work: I will have a job while living in this household. I will do everything in my power to be timely and coordinate rides to my job if need be. If I happen to lose my job or am currently unemployed then I know that I will have 2 weeks to find one. If I do not find one within this time period then my parents will assign me more household duties to help those that are already working.

6. Vehicle: I am responsible for my own gas and $80 per month toward car insurance on the family car, due on the 1st of each month. If I fall behind in payment, I realize that my use of the car will be restricted to work and necessary appointments. If I cannot afford gas then I will procure rides in some other fashion.

7. Cell phone: I will be responsible for paying for any extra services behind basic phone calls and text messages.

8. Respect: I will be respectful to all members of this household. If I do not feel that I was disrespectful then a family meeting will be called and I can plead my case. The family can then decide whether or not it is grounds for fines or more chores. Although I do realize that my family may have a part, it is ultimately up to my parents to decide whether or not I will be subject to any consequences.

If I fail to abide by these rules, my parents can and will take away privileges as appropriate, charge fees, or demand for alternate living arrangements.

My parents reserve the right to make exceptions to these rules at any time, for any reason.

Child’s signature Date

Parent’s signature Date

Parent’s signature Date



Please feel free to suggest different/other things. She is 19.

[jellibeans]

Well that looks very to the point and clearly laid out... . what will you do if she doesn't sign?

19 is not too young to move out... . this contract seems to suggest that it might be easier to do so. I hope you don't mind me saying but it is a bit over whelming to read. I think the respect point is going to be a tough one and I don't see anyone winning there... . showing appreciation? There seems to be a theme here... . what I am getting is that she is not very nice at times and writing this contract is going to change that? I really don't know if that is something you can control or should even try to... .

I hope this contract is setting her up for success and not failure... . isn't that what we want to do?

[LittleThings]

You are right... . it's way too long and tough. (copied it from a site and tweaked it a little) Gotta start somewhere. My DH and I are going to look at it together later.

Yes, we do need to try to set her up for success. Some have suggested we charge rent, but she absolutely doesn't have the means. Chores aren't a bad thing, but enforcing them might :/ I wondered if it was on paper it would help.

We did have a talk about self harm and my calling for help. It seemed awkward to include that. She is desperately afraid of any more time in a treatment unit. (was there once)

Appreciation... . just a thank you now and then. Goes both ways. But perhaps that is asking too much.

She has dropped out of college, is working only a few hours a week, and does whatever the heck she wants most of the remainder of the time. Begs and cries when we try to enforce the no car ins. pay't, no car use other than job or appts.

[jellibeans]

Little things

I am concerned that your contract is too much too soon... . I suggest focusing on maybe three things... . but make them things that do not evoke a power struggle... . the more you push the more she will push back... . reduce the chores... . start with a few that she will be able to do... . finding ways for her to succeed is the way to go.

I once had a contract a few years ago... it was terrible... . our family therapist at the time suggested it... . it is really not the way to get through to pwBPD... . they don't repsond well to this.

How can you help her success? Would sitting down with her and going over help wanted ads help her? Taking her to fill out job applications?

Things like school... . if she doesn't go then she will not have the ability to get a good job... . that is her consequence. For me I feel finishing high school is important... . she doesn't have to go to school... . she could stop at 17 and that is her choice but she will not have the use of her car that we bought. I have really tried not to push her about school... . my dd is ODD as well and so I have the extra hard problem of getting her to do anything... . it is worse than dealing with BPD at times.

please let me know how it goes... . reduce your demands... . focus on only a couple and the ones you can control.

[jellibeans]

I found this old post about contracts... . I found it helpful but still pretty long but it might help you

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=102577.0;wap2

[jellibeans]

I wanted to just add that wilderness camps have not been very successfully with pwBPD... . again kind of harsh at times... . the post I suggested had a good response to the contract that was laid out... . good luck!

[LittleThings]

jellibeans, you are great!

That sample contract was a little harsh as well. I am reluctant to spell out too much as far as positive and negative consequences because I know I will be accused of talking down to her. I have already been accused of it. This is a very intelligent person. Irrational, and overly emotional, but very smart.

We'll start simple.

We will focus on the, A.  car/ins. pay't/and restrictions if not paid, B.a few chores to contribute to the household, and C. if we are worried about her safety we will get outside help.

I came up with the idea of a place for her to apply that would use her computer talents. My DH and I are hoping she will find that using her brain doing something she is good at is rewarding. So far she is trying to get hired there.  It's an effort, even though she probably wouldn't have done anything about it without our asking.

She doesn't have to go to college, but we hope she at least chooses to take a class at the community college.

[jellibeans]

Great Littlethings

That is a good start! I agree the samply I sent was hard but the responses to the contract was very good. I am glad you found it helpful.

I think that is the hardest thing to do as a parent... . when I first found out about my d16 I was very sad... . sad that she was not going to have the life I thought she could have... . I greived for that lost life but then realized it is her life... . she will make of it what she wants and all I can do is be supportive. It is hard to see wasted talent or brain power but I really try to take the judgement out of things... . I think that is key if you can do it. Your dd is smart and she will do something with her life. Don't worry about things you have no control of. Give her the room to breath and she might surprise you. You have put good boundaries in place so I hope things improve. please keep us posted 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[js friend]

Little things iam in agreement with jellibeans... .

In my experience exhaustive behavioural contracts dont work. I have had brief success with allowing dd to earn rewards if it was something she really, really wanted. Once t told me to take dd,s phone away for a few days and dd had to earn phone time each night by doing chores and it worked for a while beacuse she cant bear to be without her phone, another time she wanted money to watch a film with friends. Granted she much younger so I perhaps had better success. But also  I think you need to pick a few things to concentrate on and even help your dd to achieve if you can... . Chores have never gone down well with my dd. I think sometimes she has felt overwhelmed with the idea especailly if she has been in a depressed phase or feeling angry or hateful. It doent mean you shouldnt have them just be aware of your expectations and how your dd may be feeling sometimes. Smaller chores may work for your dd than one big one perhaps, and from my experence it is even better if  natural consequences are allowed to happen beause pwBPD's seem to struggle with the  notion of cause+effect = consequences. 

I think natural consequences  prepare them for living on the outside world better and it is what they will more often come across. One example is that dd got sacked from her first from a job for only wanting to certain parts of the job. She was employed to work in a team and take turns doing certain tasks, but only wanted to do the things that put her up front ... . dd's inflated ego again... . so they had to let her go.( I know this because i went to see the manager who told me)

so the consequence no job=no money=no new clothes/makeup,going out etc

Of course she still sees it differently... . they didnt like her and all ganged up against her... . blah, blah, blah... . but that was expected,  but overtime I hope that one day she will connect the dots.

I think it is best to choose your battles with your dd. My dd wasnt too good with having showers when she lived here. And yes it used to annoy me, but if I insisted she would just go in there run the shower for a while and never even get in so int the end I tried to not let it bother me and eventually she did have a ntural consequence natural consequence= skin infection that needed to be treated with antibotics.


I used to explain it to my dd in this way that I was preparing her to be an adultlife so when she eventually left and had her own place she would be able to cope(she always liked the sound of that... . and stating that I was actually helping her always went down well)... .

and now she does have a place of her own her, and is paying her bills, buying her own food, lokking after gd and is living in the adult world onthe whole pretty successfully

[LittleThings]

We have been waiting since summer for her to "get" the natural consequences of not working. (school is of the table right now)

What happens when she runs out of money is she will go into a depressed phase, followed by a verbal self loathing tirade, and finally a panic attack or a crying spell.

This has been going on since she spent all the $ in her savings (for college stuff) which was about 5-6 months ago.

As you all know, this is excruciating to watch, but nearly impossible to ignore.

I gave her a little cash to tide her over more than once, and then her grandpa did as well. Another time she convinced me to let her take some of our coin stash to the bank and then just kept some for herself. I never saw the ticket.

I guess we are not well versed in the BPD head games, because we just end up feeling used. And pissed. And untrusting.

Even my dad is at his wit's end. he was the one who gave me the car for her to commute to school and work. He told me he'd have kicked her out by now.

We can't control what she does with the $, but we are sure suckers for the emotions that ensue when it's all gone.

To top this off, when she has no gas, she asks to have her friends/gf over to "hang out" .

So much to learn!