Dealing with grief when your parent dies.

[DreamGirl]

I'm not sure where else to post this.

I was hoping that there was someone who has been thru this as well and offer insight. Comfort. Advice.

My NPD-traited father died a little over two years ago. I have struggled so much with it.  

I miss him.  

I'm really angry at myself for being so angry at him when he was dying.

I harbor so much regret.

My memories of him fluctuate between the good, the bad, and the really bad. He wasn't very good at being a dad... . but I wasn't very good at being his daughter either.

I simply don't know how to feel better about this.

I do think I put forth a valiant effort. His being diagnosed with terminal cancer was my "breakthrough crisis" and I started therapy pretty quickly after. I was diagnosed with PTSD traits and really worked thru getting those traits not be such an issue in my life anymore. I've done a lot in trauma recovery. I feel better when it comes to my mental health - far better then when this all began.  

I loved my dad. He was my dad. I just was really angry. Probably more hurt then angry. I didn't tell him that I loved him until the very last time I held his hand ~ in the ER when he had already passed. Just writing those words makes the tears well up and spill.

I just couldn't let it go.

He annoyed me so much in his self-righteousness; but that's just who he was. That's what his narcissism lent him to be. I was embarrassed of him. I look at pictures of his final moments in this life and his face was so full of pain (the cancer was slowly eating away at him). I was blind to it because I was so worried about myself. Oh the hypocrisy of that.

I know I am stuck as far as living my life as a whole (and happy) person. I know this is partly why. I'm trying really hard to be honest and accountable.

I fluctuate in justifying my alienation of my dad (I didn't speak to him for 13 years before he got sick) to just being so frustrated that I acted so high and mighty. My therapist has said it's pretty normal to feel the way I do and that often times it's really hard to reconcile these kinds of relationships with a parent who wasn't very good at being a parent.

I still have him programmed in my phone. If I could call him right now, I would. I would tell him that we should have breakfast and I would listen to all of his stupid stories... . that he so often told to convince others of his greatness.

I couldn't do that when he was actually here though. I just couldn't.

And that makes me so unbelievably sad... . and I feel as much as I didn't forgive him, I now can't forgive myself.

Has anyone been thru this? What helped you?  

[123Phoebe]

Aw DreamGirl, such deep emotions.  It can be so hard grappling with them   Making sense of them.  Coming to peace with them.

What has helped is imagining my dad at total peace.  No more mental illness.  And hearing what he'd say to me as I JADE the hell out of our relationship... .

"I understand and I love you".

Tears are welling up in my eyes too, thinking about him.  It's a deep bond that will forever be there

[charred]

Dreamgirl,

I got teared up reading your post.

My father is obnoxiously malignant NPD... . havent' talked to him in 13 yrs... not since he tried to cause my wife to have a miscarriage with my daughter... (because he didn't want to be a Grandpa-it meant gals would think he was old... that is what he said.)

Have no doubt I will have feelings of regret and sorrow when he passes... but my life got better as soon as I got him out of it. I regret he wasn't a good enough father to be involved in my life and to know his grand daughter... she makes up for the loss of him in my life 100X over.

Our parents are special to us, whether they deserve it or not. Being just with them when they are totally deserving of it... still leaves us feeling like we did something wrong. You will have regrets, and I am sure I will. Had a number of people tell me to make up with him and be tolerant ... . while you still can. The deep seated issues I have go back to him and my mother... . and the decision to go NC with him was the right one. He tried to keep me from having a daughter... . he was the cause of my grand-mother's death... and he laughed about it at her funeral.

My plan is to deal with the feelings... . and not with him. Have no idea what your father put you through... but you loved him anyway... and it takes a lot to turn a kid away from a parent. I feel for your loss, and understand it and will have my own similar loss one day... . you haven't done anything wrong... . his pain is over, let yours fade.

[DreamGirl]

Aw DreamGirl, such deep emotions.  It can be so hard grappling with them   Making sense of them.  Coming to peace with them.

What has helped is imagining my dad at total peace.  No more mental illness.  And hearing what he'd say to me as I JADE the hell out of our relationship... .

"I understand and I love you".

Tears are welling up in my eyes too, thinking about him.  It's a deep bond that will forever be there

Thank you so much for this.

"I understand and I love you".

That really, really, really helps 123Phoebe.  

Our parents are special to us, whether they deserve it or not. Being just with them when they are totally deserving of it... still leaves us feeling like we did something wrong. You will have regrets, and I am sure I will. Had a number of people tell me to make up with him and be tolerant ... . while you still can. The deep seated issues I have go back to him and my mother... . and the decision to go NC with him was the right one. He tried to keep me from having a daughter... . he was the cause of my grand-mother's death... and he laughed about it at her funeral.

I have these stories too.

He cheated on my mom. A lot. He swindled people out of money and when he was sued, we almost lost our house. He told me pretty often that I wasn't good enough. He made fun of my accomplishments if they didn't constitute his own bragging rights.  The worst of his failures as a father being that he left me vulnerable to his best friend, who while staying with us on business trips, shattered my little world starting when I was 9. When I was 13 and wanted to see a counselor, he threw his wallet across the room and asked if I thought he was made of money.  

You know what else though?

My dad also took me on a two week trip when I was 12 down the western coast. The first time I ever saw the ocean. I jumped out of the truck and ran the entire way and with all my clothes on I pummeled those waves.  I stood in awe of the magnificent Redwoods and ate the best clam chowder I've ever had in San Francisco. I walked under a waterfall and he let me drink soda whenever my little heart desired. My dad took a hundred pictures of that trip.

On my 14th birthday, he took my friends and I in his '67 Monte Carlo convertible and drove us around town listening to loud music and laughing like teenaged girls do.

He could be really mean when fired up. My very first memory was being spanked when I fell asleep in a movie theater at three years old and woke up crying.  He would also not really allow you to have your own opinion and would sit you in a chair until you complied with his viewpoint. I think I sat once for 7 hours. Too stubborn to not agree but in the end conceded because I just wanted to go to bed.

We weren't allowed to watch tv unless it was the news, PBS or Star Trek. The news wasn't a choice, we had to watch the news - but the nature shows and Star Trek were a real treat. So I resent the news but I love Star Trek. (Star Wars too!) He loved astronomy and would wake me up in the middle of the night - whether I liked it or not - to look at some kind of meteor shower, planet, or comet.

He was so smart. Well read. Read the newspaper everyday and TIME magazine. Loved classical music. Looked down on those who didn't - like myself and my brother who wanted to watch MTV and listen to Motley Crue and LL Cool J.  He didn't really know how to let us be kids and have our own opinions, likes and dislikes. Challenging him just was not allowed - he would smash our stuff and in an emotional rage broke my brother's prized guitar over his knee while I hid in my room.  

Two weeks after the wallet was thrown... . I took a bottle of asthma medication and landed myself in the ICU. After my stomach was pumped and the charcoal was taken, thrown up and then taken again - my dad held my hand and told me he loved me. Tears in his eyes, he told me he loved me.  

He was a man. Just a man.

And I couldn't accept that about him in his life on earth. I couldn't forgive him of the mistakes of a man.  

That is hard for me to let go of. Really hard.

[Calm Waters]

my BPD mothers funeral tomorrow. She was married to my NPD / BPD Dad for 71 years! He had an affair under her nose for 18 years, it drove her insane, messed me up as a child as i was parentified. Somehow they stayed together until she died a couple of weeks ago. My father was so out of touch with his feelings as she lay dying with my brother and i in tears, he was making jokes! I don't know how we kept our hands off him the ar*e. Anyway the funeral will be a blast and I hope he squirms and sobs throughput the whole thing as he needs to grieve properly, i dont expect he will though.

So I expect I might be there where you are Dream Girl when he eventually dies, he's 91. I suppose all I can offer is that the behaviour of the person isn't the person, the behaviour is a manifestation of the damage and it is that you have reacted to and why you feel so guilty bit don't! despite the damage he was able to make choices and those choices effected you as my parents did me. Its only when we are mature and open enough to see the damage that they suffered that we can forgive them and ourselves. Life and relationships can be painful but I guess there is a purpose and perhaps that is to help us heal fundamentally the relationship with ourselves, our inner child.

[PrettyPlease]

I couldn't do that when he was actually here though. I just couldn't.

And that makes me so unbelievably sad... . and I feel as much as I didn't forgive him, I now can't forgive myself.

Has anyone been thru this? What helped you?  

Yes, almost exactly. Actually with both of them (uNPD dad, uBPD mother), but  emotionally more so with my mother.

I recognize all parts of your dilemma. First, about:

"I would listen to all of his stupid stories... . that he so often told to convince others of his greatness.

I couldn't do that when he was actually here though."

Me the same. And what helps me in retrospect is the very wise saying that we all do the best we can with the resources we have available at the time. I knew what I knew then, and it was just excruciatingly difficult, emotionally, for me to do what she wanted, when I knew it was unhealthy and that she was sick in some way. I didn't feel right. It felt like it would kill me -- was killing me. I had to refuse. It was a boundary I had to put up.

And so looking back -- who am I to say, now, that I was wrong to do that? I knew what I knew then. I'm only rehashing it and saying "what if" by running through it again and saying "I should have been there for her the way she wanted". This rehashing is a problem in itself. It is misleading.

And that leads to the "didn't forgive"; yes, I've felt bad about not forgiving her -- pwBPD are humans, we have to feel sorry for them like anyone, feel empathy for them. But again, that rehashing, that 20-20 hindsight, misses the essential point that we believed we were fighting for our own lives at the time. And so there's no reason to even need to forgive ourselves for this, because we didn't do anything wrong.

And in a strange way that's true also about the pwBPD. They have a mental disorder; forgiveness isn't even necessary. They didn't do anything wrong either, in a major sense. "Help them father, for they know not what they do". They didn't know what they did. (Well, okay, they appeared to be making choices -- but I'd argue that they didn't have the choices we wanted them to have, at all; certain things they simply couldn't choose.)

So, DreamGirl you're a great person, you did good, now and in the past, and beating yourself up about how the Universe might have unfolded differently isn't going to help. 

PP

[jtmur1]

Hi Dreamgirl,

I'm so sorry you are suffering like this. It is so very hard to resolve a relationship that finishes through death.  I'm a newbie here because of my BPD sister but I have been through something similar to what you're experiencing.

Does this help at all?... . My mother had cancer from when is as 10 and died a long, gruesome death finally when I was 18, in the next year my father was diagnosed with lung cancer and also died.

My father was an abusive, scary man who never stopped being emotionally, verbally or physically abusive up until the end.  My mother was depressed and passive and didn't protect me from him.

And yet, I was devastated when they died as the relationships ended without any resolution, reckoning, or closure with them acknowledging their regrets about their treatment of me.

I was shattered that the relationships would never be better, were terrible anyway but after their deaths I was really alone and with a vengeful BPD sister as my only family.

I became anxious and depressed. But I held off getting any real help for about 5 years and instead hid in my study and career.  But I couldn't get away from it and finally really benefited from professional help from a psychologist who helped me untangle the really complicated knot of conflicting emotions I was suffering.

I felt incredibly conflicted because I was so guilty feeling the anger and disappointment in 2 dead people- very socially unacceptable and taboo.

I missed my mother like crazy, I didn't miss my father but the process of his dying was absolutely excruciating and I was utterly drained at the end.

There were layers of mourning:

-for the person (except my father),

- that things never got better,

-that now they never would,

-that I was robbed of decent parental relationships by their behaviours and as I would never have more parents I would never have the opportunity to know loving parents and feel safe and I grieved that extremely hard.

-there was no one to contain my BPD sister who proceeded to run amok for the next 2 decades and manipulate my interstate family (and I felt enormous rage over that)... .


Because their deaths meant the breakup of the family home, I also experienced a series of stressful changes fairly young.

Dreamgirl, I think everything you are feeling is very normal, expected and very painful. I experienced my pain in waves that could be fast or slow and I just couldn't get out from under them without a helping hand.

The most damaging thing was the guilt because I wasn't the one who should have been feeling guilty. I needed help with that.

Would you consider seeing someone to have them help you through the intense labarynth?

Had I done it 5 years earlier than I did, I could have saved a lot of time.

I am now in my 40's, my parents have been dead for the majority of my life and I've worked those issues through so they now sit in a box with a bow, on a shelf in my psyche.

Losing a parent is a life changing and psyche-changing thing. We are no longer someone's child.  You deserve support and kindness, empathy and good help to assist you to find a way for you to live with your new situation.

It can be done and it is better on the other side, I do promise that. You will be different but you will be ok.

I feel for you and am sending you a virtual hug from someone who has been through it.

Please let me know how you get on 

[Tayto]

Dreamgirl.

i lost my father who was the most abusive person i ever met, he would pull you out of the bed and beat you so badly,then put you back into bed. the next morning he would make you breakfast as if nothing ever happened the night before.

anyhow, i was with him on the day he got the news that he had lung cancer and was not going to live for more than a year. he's very words were

right so, give me a cigerate and lets go home.

it took him nine months to pass on which i,m grateful for my siblings as some had not mended their ways with him.

one approach I used was to get two chairs and place them one facing the other but to the side as if one is facing one wall and the other is facing the side wall.

the empthy chair is where your father is going to sit and you can talk to him telling him everything that is on your mind, remember to look at him in the ye and dont hold your head down as this is important.

i dont cry as i learned from an early age that crying was aaccepting whaat was done to me and not crying at least I had that. I could not stop crying after telling my father all that was on my mind and typing this is bringing up them good but sad emotions again.

this was one thing that i myself found helpful.

[DreamGirl]

I really, really appreciate all this feedback.  


Calm Waters ~ thank you so much for the validation. I also understand what it's like when you have a parent who you stand by and have to listen to handle a situation in such an adverse way (like when your Dad made inappropriate jokes)

Its only when we are mature and open enough to see the damage that they suffered that we can forgive them and ourselves.

This is so true. When I see my Dad's family - who are so much like him - it really helps me "make sense" of why he was the way he was. I just can't let go of wishing that I could have done that while he was still here.

Perhaps it's my own selfishness. I want to feel better about it.  

PrettyPlease - you are so good at this stuff and I really appreciate your taking to the time respond.

And what helps me in retrospect is the very wise saying that we all do the best we can with the resources we have available at the time.

There was a crack in my overwhelming shame (from when I was a teenager) with this same concept. A member here (blackandwhite) is who helped gently crack that thought process. She explained that a 15 year old doesn't have skills or even the cognitive ability to make decisions the same way an adult does. It really helped me to forgive myself for some of the choices I made (my own little shame generators).

Maybe that's where I'm getting so stuck. Thinking I had better skills. A better ability to make a choice.

Oh the "should haves"!

jtmur1 - I'm so sorry about losing your parents so young.  :'(

Would you consider seeing someone to have them help you through the intense labarynth?

Oh the therapy I've been thru. I think I've personally funded her vacation home. I also moved on from it not that long ago.

I would think I have the skills. The resilience.

Maybe not.  

Every Christmas I seem to struggle. My dad looked like Santa Claus, he actually was one of those Santas that you see in the malls.

So every Santa I see makes it really hard. Plus we tend to miss those who are gone on these family holidays.

keezie1 ~ I'm sorry your dad was that kind of dad. I hate hearing stories of beatings.  :'(

My dad wasn't completely awful or a tyrant. Just short tempered and self-involved. He was better at ignoring us.  

It's hard for me to even admit I was "abused". Maybe that's part of it. My therapist helped me see how that admitting that (like on the Survivor's Guide #2 suggest I do) even on a lower level of severity helps process and move on.

When I was angry, it was easier. Now that I'm letting go of the anger, it's not as easy.

[jtmur1]

Hi Dreamgirl,

I'm sorry, I wasn't sure if you'd had counselling. I can appreciate how hard this is. You say that 'you'd think you'd have resiliance by now, maybe not'.  You are very hard on yourself. It hasn't been that long since your father passed on and it takes everyone different amounts of time to be able to live with it- but you know that already.

Christmas is a really hard time- I find myself triggered by it (for the loss of my extended family) and lots of my friends find Christmas a trigger point and stressful. Your loyal, sweet, sensitive self deserves kindness and understanding at Christmas (like we all do).

I can appreciate you feel guilty... . Is it ok for me to make a couple of observations about that?

- it doesn't matter if the abuse was on the 'milder' end of the scale, you were affected and you were still a child and he was your parent. It was his job to care for you, not you to parent him.

- it doesn't have to be 'severe' abuse to justify feeling: angry, sad, robbed, disappointed, afraid and conflicted as you also feel love for your father. You were a child and it was up to him to be responsible for his feelings and when he took them out on you, to make it right with you. That's not a child's job either.

- I'm not attacking your father. I think you are expecting alot of your younger self and it is very easy to do when looking back.

- you are fiercely loyal which is a lovely quality. Your sweet, sensitive, thoughtful self deserves that loyalty and love too.

Your father was a special person you loved intensely and still do. He was the parent and was not perfect, and he hurt you. You were a child, you reacted the way a hurt child who adores her father reacts. As an adult child you still were in a parent/ child relationship with your father and that is very hard to resolve.

- I think looking back at events, everyone regrets, wishes they had done things differently etc in the situation, you do the best you can. You have a right to have felt hurt and to acknowledge how things really were at home. That is difficult after the parent involved is gone.

- time helps take the very sharp edges off your pain. It sounds very cliched and it does work. Unfortunately time feels like it is taking forever.

You are very smart, articulate, thoughtful, loyal and very loving. Your father was lucky to have you in his life.  You are in a lot of pain and I am truly sorry that you are suffering.

J xx

[P.F.Change]

DreamGirl,

I attended a funeral today, and it reminded me that I haven't responded to your post. Thanks, by the way, for starting this thread. I have not yet had to grieve the loss of my parents, so I can't really tell you how to get through it. I'm glad to see so many insightful responses from those who have already been there. I had so many thoughts as I read through this thread. I'll do my best to sum them up without turning it into an essay.  

First, I was encouraged by the compassionate view you have adopted toward your father. It seems like you are able to recognize him as a human being with limitations, and reached a place where you have forgiven him. It made me wish you could have as much compassion for yourself. You are human, too--you have limitations, too--and they are just as forgivable. What are you getting out of punishing yourself? Does it change the past? No. The past is gone, it cannot be changed. It is what it is. You have accepted your father was who he was. You were who you were, too. As Pretty Please said, we do the best we can with the skills we have at the time. Can you give yourself some radical acceptance?

Another thing I noticed, and I don't know if I can even articulate it, is this: Your father's illness was the catalyst that started you down a healing path and ultimately made it possible for you to learn to forgive him. Somehow, even if he was completely clueless about it, he was part of this wonderful lesson. I can't help but view it as kind of his gift to you, if that makes sense? I think I may be thinking along the same lines as 123Phoebe, and I really like her suggestion to imagine him giving you forgiveness and understanding, too.

I know grief is complicated; I imagine it is even more so with a parent who wasn't always so good at being a parent. I think a lot of what you are feeling is pretty common. You're not a bad person, DreamGirl, you're just a person.  

Wishing you peace,

PF

[DreamGirl]

Can you give yourself some radical acceptance?

If only!

I really don't know what it's about. It's as if it's a behavior pattern or something. I mean, I couldn't forgive him - and now I can.

And so... . I can't have compassion for the angry little person I was two and a half years ago. Perhaps it's part of the grief process. I was angry at God too. For taking him away just as I was starting to find some peace. I have such a fond memory of one of the last times I spent with him, playing cribbage. I could never beat him and he'd never let me win. I lost again that day. He also just absolutely loved my dog (who I'd just adopted) and man, did my little punkin love him back. My dad always had a way with dogs. Those are the memories that flood my thoughts - not the ugly ones that plagued me for so long.

But we all want more time, right?

Another thing I noticed, and I don't know if I can even articulate it, is this: Your father's illness was the catalyst that started you down a healing path and ultimately made it possible for you to learn to forgive him. Somehow, even if he was completely clueless about it, he was part of this wonderful lesson. I can't help but view it as kind of his gift to you, if that makes sense? I think I may be thinking along the same lines as 123Phoebe, and I really like her suggestion to imagine him giving you forgiveness and understanding, too.

Maybe it was. It really was my breakthrough crisis. It allowed me to face so much and really recognize some hard truths about myself. It changed my life... . in a lot of positive ways. I feel like I live my life in a state of awareness now. I feel more honest. More accepting of the way things are.  

I am at a place where I don't harbor resentment anymore. I used to struggle with blaming and wishing that I could have a different life. I think that was still an assault against myself in that I was wishing I was different... . and my thinking that if he would have been a better parent, I would be a better person. Don't we all know that dance?

I'm just... . sad I guess.  

I know grief is complicated; I imagine it is even more so with a parent who wasn't always so good at being a parent. I think a lot of what you are feeling is pretty common. You're not a bad person, DreamGirl, you're just a person.  

Thank you so much for that. It means a lot.

Failing is really hard for me. I feel like I failed. I don't know that I did - according to what standards? I do know that I gave it an effort, perhaps my very best.

I can't quite let go of that I could have done more. Tried harder. Been better.

Maybe that's the lesson that lies within all of this.

[waver]

My God, my God, my God... .

I'm crying as I'm reading your posts... .

In my whole life, I've put my Mum on a pedestal

I've never been in good r/s with my father

I said sometimes I would dance in red dress on his funeral

I've begun my affair with BPDbf when my Mum was dying

My Dad died 3 months after my Mum

In this 3 months we had more conversations than in my whole life

It is good

But it could have been better if I had discovered earlier what BPD means

If only he would live 1/2 year more

Sorry for my por English

Hope you'll understand

[Woolspinner2000]

DreamGirl,

Thank you so much for your raw honesty. There is such an honest yearning within you for healing.  It will come. You are working at it, even by sharing with us all here.

The replies are all so helpful and empathetic, with good and encouraging words.

I lost my uBPD mom almost 1 1/2 years ago, literally 2 weeks after I finally had the nerve to begin to walk the long road to the revealing and healing journey we are all on. She was gone in only 16 days after being diagnosed with cancer. I often wondered if only I had done something different or been a better child would she have lived longer or loved me? No, I could not have changed these things. Just like one of the posts said, perhaps in their own way our parent's passing has been one of the greatest gifts to us because it has allowed us to go down the road to heal. I know I would not have felt the freedom to begin to open up to others were she still alive. The pain of the loss is still great. I know she is finally at peace. I still struggle to imagine it but I am so thankful her mental pain is done. I am working at finding my own peace here while I still have opportunity with all those I love so dearly close by me.

WS2000

[123Phoebe]

Has anyone been thru this? What helped you?  

I have a lot of thoughts on this, but will touch on it briefly... .

My dad has been gone for 18 years, though his spirit remains and it's strong!  I actually feel closer to him as time goes on, as I mature (  = get older).  I'll look to him as a guide at times.  "What would you do, Dad?"  And sometimes I'll do the opposite because what I know he would do "in life", is not something I agree with.  At other times, I'm like, "Man, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree",

I'm very much like my Mom in a lot of ways, too.  Other ways, not one bit.

Failing is really hard for me. I feel like I failed. I don't know that I did - according to what standards? I do know that I gave it an effort, perhaps my very best.

I can't quite let go of that I could have done more. Tried harder. Been better.

^^Can you imagine your Dad saying this exact same thing?^^

Maybe that's the lesson that lies within all of this.

  

[Tiptop57]

My father went to the grave with my self-imposed 20 year NC. I was left with a dysfunctional abusive childhood history that impetus that fueled my Artistic Activism on domestic violence and child abuse prevention. I grieved for what could have been and I didn't miss or nor grieve the "what truly was." I missed and grieved for a "normal" Father long before his death.

He is gone, he destroyed my life, but I rebuilt it as an artist on top his ashes and I do not feel guilty. I wonder about that part of my soul and I admire the fact you wanted one more minute with your father, because I never did.

Deep breathing. This to will become a part of your life that won't hurt so much after the passing of some time.

[P.F.Change]

I really don't know what it's about. It's as if it's a behavior pattern or something. I mean, I couldn't forgive him - and now I can.

And so... . I can't have compassion for the angry little person I was two and a half years ago. Perhaps it's part of the grief process. I was angry at God too.

... .

I can't quite let go of that I could have done more. Tried harder. Been better.

I think you're right that this is part of the grief process. It sounds to me like you are Bargaining. During this phase, people often say things like, "If only I had done differently, this loss wouldn't be happening." I hear a lot of this in your words, this thinking you could have prevented some of these feelings of loss if you had not been angry way back when. You are grieving good times with your dad, it seems. We humans also tend to idealize the departed--we focus on the shiny times and dismiss the painful ones. This is very common and can sometimes add to our feelings of loss.

You say you "can't" let go of your feelings of regret. I'm sure it's not that you don't want to. But perhaps they are serving some kind of a purpose for you, providing some kind of comfort. Maybe feeling ashamed reminds you of being near your dad? It could be a way to hold onto him as much as anything else.

What do you think?

[sarielle]

I often wondered if only I had done something different or been a better child would she have lived longer or loved me?

I have been so moved by all the posts in this thread. I am new and have already found so much support in reading your posts.

My uBPD uOCDP and chronically clinically depressed mother passed about 1.25 years ago. I am 41 and became nc at 19 - because I KNEW it was f**ked up beyond belief. Only yesterday did I discover this whole BPD illness and the symptoms and I feel like I am reading about my own life in so many of these posts and this thread has had me tearing all the way through. But I want to share the following piece of insight in the hope it helps you guilty one put a perspective on things.

My mother was always really judgemental of everyone, and her OCDP made her out to be perfect and demand perfection. The flip side is that the BPD meant that we could be harshly punished for the slightest perceived transgression to her demands for perfection and we were ALWAYS on eggshells, and were relieved when she slept because all we had to do was be quiet. Anyway, when a wave of tragedies struck the family, with EVERYONE dying except one cousin and our own family unit in the short space of about 3-4 years my mother got severely depressed ontop of the BPD and became non functional. I was in my early teens, and no one paid any attention to the fact that we too had undergone all these losses and at that shortly after a viscous parental divorce, so not only had our home fallen apart our family disappeared. I was a very headstrong girl. well I had grown up hearing all the possible judgements of everyone else - so I "knew" how to be perfect (). I refused to allow her to drag us all down, I rebelled. I obviously got into a lot of trouble as the controlling factor never really subsided just became more dysfunctional than ever. So, my rebellion was by being extra-ordinarily achieving. I grew up in the UK, and for anyone that understands I got 12 GCSEs (most university accept 8, no one else in my school got past 10 which is considered a feat) and 4 A levels, whilst holding down an adult job on the weekends so that I had money in my pockets and could make choices like my peers. I rebelled into constructive rather than destruction. This only made her more brutal, she constantly set me obstacles and caused me pain. She gave me the silent treatment for the last 3 years of my living under her roof and her brainwashing backed by her depression meant my brothers were not allowed to talk to me either, or they too would have hell to pay. You really could not have asked for a better child, excelling beyond

What I am saying is that you can not have done anything different or "been a better child". It turns out it makes no difference, they will just find another angle to feel threatened by regardless of what you did. I hope that brings you some relief for the guilt. We could not have done anything that would have prevented the abuse, it just would have taken on different shapes.

Personally I am having trouble dealing with the fact that I have never felt protected, even in my parental home I was on the defensive, and that I have been on the run since I left, always looking for a place to call home but never able to trust that it would be secure. I stopped crying when I was about 10 because I felt that if I did not cry it would take away some of her victory. I think I used denial as a tool for so many years and now that she has passed I can't stop crying and I can't keep it together. Its almost as if I could only keep it together in defiance of her. So thats the flip side of being the best kid you could be - it only infuriated her more and exacerbated the situation.

I have no guilt, but soo much hurt and can not work out if I will ever be able to forgive her and am wondering if the only option is to forget her and the pain and try and put them back in some box?

Healing blessings to all those damaged by their parents

[PrettyPlease]

What I am saying is that you can not have done anything different or "been a better child". It turns out it makes no difference, they will just find another angle to feel threatened by regardless of what you did.

sarielle, I think this is important. And easy to forget. Thanks for the reminder.

I have no guilt, but soo much hurt and can not work out if I will ever be able to forgive her and am wondering if the only option is to forget her and the pain and try and put them back in some box?

I understood your story well; mine was the same. Mother judgmental, perfectionist, OCD, probably uBPD, and I compensated by over-achieving academically. She died depressed about 1.75 years ago.

I wonder the same thing -- but I think your answer is the most important: we couldn't have done any better. And others have said "forgiveness is resentment" -- so maybe, really, there's nothing to forgive. She had her path and it was an excruciating one -- for her, and for those around her. It's like a child dying of leukemia -- it happens. Not being a (traditionally) religious person, I prefer to put time into the science of leukemia, and into the science of BPD and family dynamics, rather than either God or blame (--by that I mean that forgiveness, to my understanding, entails both: we play God by assuming we can have control over blame).

I think facing our pain directly, accepting it, and letting it be there when it needs to be, is the best. Emotions come on their own schedule, and they eventually weaken. Other things happen, other emotions take over.

I think our job is to study what happened and learn from it, so we can place ourselves in the best position for those new emotions to be positive ones.

HAPPINESS NOW!      

PP

[Fremont]

Your post really spoke to me as I am in a similar situation, except it was my sister.

We had not spoken in 14 years.  For many of the years prior to the break of our relationship, it was chaos and turmoil.  I was embarrassed of her.  She was not a nice person.  She made crude jokes that mortified me.  She spoke like she was uneducated, when she really was an intelligent woman.

She abused her children.  I got involved and had her then 3-year old removed form her care to be raised by my mother (I was only 17 at the time).  I had been working to get her now 8 year old removed from her care as well.

She had drug and alcohol problems.  She lived in abusive relationships.

She was diagnosed with cancer two years ago.  A very aggressive form of breast cancer - inflammatory and stage IV.  It went to her brain last July and two brain surgeries later, she was deteriorating quickly.  She became more troubled as time went on - delirious, it seemed - screaming at people and just out of touch with reality.  She died of a heart attack while in rehab in November.

I never went to her.  Actually, I wanted to go to her the Friday before she died, but I had just had an inner ear surgery and could not fly for 3 more weeks, so I couldn't.  I was set to buy a ticket and just before I did, remembered I could not travel.

I am now grieving alone as I live 3,000 miles from "home" and what's left there is in shambles anyhow.  My children never knew her and my husband barely knew her.  I don't even know how to grieve for her because I feel like I don't deserve to.  I didn't speak to her for so long - what right do I have to miss her know?

There is regret, for sure.  At the same time, I know I was protecting myself from the damage she would have continued to cause me.

At this point, I mostly cry when I am alone and hold on to whatever good memories I have of her.  At first, I was pained because I could not find any good memories.  I pulled out pictures of us as children and even when LOOKING at the evidence, I couldn't remember any good times.  They are starting to come to me and I am holding on to them.

She's gone and I can't change that.  I don't want her to be remembered as who she was the second half of her life - I want her to be remembered as a beautiful child full of life and love.  Sadly, words I have heard spoken about her - from her own daughter - were "good riddance".  it pains me terribly so I keep all my feelings inside and just let it out when I can (usually in the car on my way to and from work each day).

I don't know how to help you.  I just want you to know you aren't alone and knowing you are struggling the way I am gives me a little bit of comfort as well.   

[Woolspinner2000]

"I had grown up hearing all the possible judgements of everyone else - so I "knew" how to be perfect ().

Personally I am having trouble dealing with the fact that I have never felt protected, even in my parental home I was on the defensive, and that I have been on the run since I left, always looking for a place to call home but never able to trust that it would be secure. I stopped crying when I was about 10 because I felt that if I did not cry it would take away some of her victory. I think I used denial as a tool for so many years and now that she has passed I can't stop crying and I can't keep it together. Its almost as if I could only keep it together in defiance of her."

Hi Sarielle,

I can totally relate to what you posted. I was always the perfect child as well, and I've never felt protected, even in my marriage of 29 years. I tried not to cry after a while when growing up, stuffing the feelings and the pain for years. I didn't even know that I had things to work through for I had buried them so deep. Now I'm 50 and learning what it means to feel. I have a hard time keeping it together too. In many ways, my uBPD mom's dying has allowed me to stop fighting her control in real life day to day situations (the fight was only inside of me for I could never stand up to her), and now I'm fighting me and the new feelings I am discovering. The reality is that I don't need to fight these feelings, but let them come, exposing the lies and hidden beliefs, exploring them one by one as they surface for the first time. Sometimes I wish I wasn't learning to feel because it is so foreign and strange, cracking open the areas of my heart that have been closed for so long. In the end though, I'm becoming stronger and healthier I know. Finally learning how to live instead of just surviving.

I don't have many happy memories to fall back onto, but perhaps with time I will remember more than I do now. We don't even have many pictures of myself and my siblings. We've found pictures where my uBPD literally took scissors and cut out the people she didn't like, or my sister said mom would tear the pictures in half when she was mad and throw them away, probably thinking she was getting rid of whomever she happened to hate when she was raging.

Thank goodness you all are out there, offering a big family of great understanding to us all.

WS

[Calsun]

Hi Dream Girl,

Thanks for sharing your post.  Just a few reflections.  My father died three years ago in February.  It was the greatest loss of my life.  I feared my father's death more than anything throughout my life.  He had had heart disease by the time I was twelve, and so I always lived under the specter of some sudden terrible event that would take him from me.  He finally died of complications around dementia at the age of 85.  And I had so many feelings towards him, a great deal of love, yet a great deal of sadness and disappointment and anger.  Our feelings toward our parents are complicated.  The world on mother's day and father's day wants to sanitize them, make them two-dimensional.

My father could be a very kind person, very loving.  He was not the BPD, NPD, that was my mother.  But he covered for her.  He didn't protect me from her and he didn't stand up for his dignity or the dignity of his children.  I never really held him accountable for that when I was growing up, I glossed over that reality, denied it away.  Everyone in the family did.  And the siblings, we all abandoned each other.  I alone, by the time I was in my late teens, wanted to tell the story, wanted to face the truth of the sickness of our mother and the sickness in the family, but my father acted towards me as if I was a flake, that's what he would call me.  My father abandoned me and marginalized me in order to protect the status quo and in order to   stop me from holding him accountable for being too weak to  stand up for what was right.  I was looking for a hero, someone I could look up to and that wasn't my father.  But I loved him, I wanted so much for him to be a hero, to come through, so much for him to be the man I thought he was deep down.  He never was able to and I couldn't live with that reality.  I pretended most of my life that he was that man or that he would be that man, rather than just accepting him for who he was and loving him as he was.

When he died, I felt as though perhaps I had been too unkind to him near the end, too disappointed.  He was after all a flawed but lovable human being.  And I did love him very much.

My uBPD mother is still alive, but as I read your post, I wondered how I would feel if she died before me.  Will she ever die?

One thing I would suggest is to not be so hard on yourself, easier said than done I know.  My BPD mother was impossible to relate to or bond with in any meaningful way.  She was violent, abusive, humiliating, out of control with her emotional life, and then she would say to me, why don't you want to be close to me.  Other sons want to be close their mothers.  Why don't you tell me things, why don't you talk to me?  It was impossible, and of course I felt as though I should try harder, that I was the reason why we weren't closer.  In all truth and objectivity, that was not the case.  There was no way to have a real relationship with my mother.  I understand that now.  In reading your post, I could relate to how I would feel with my mother, if I just tried harder, if I was just more loving and understanding.  If I only did this that and the other thing.

We're human  beings.  We've been vulnerable as children, and we were deeply hurt and scarred by ill people.  It's so easy to feel as though there was something that we should have done.  Yet, the reality is with NPD and BPD people, it's just so near impossible, so painful, so deeply traumatizing. 

Wishing you peace and a great amount of self-love.  And just a recommendation, if your father could truly love you, and could truly be honest with himself about his behavior toward you in his life, if he was no longer NPD, would he want you to be down on yourself for the things that "you should have done."  Or would he understand and want you to feel a peace and joy, an utter happiness and freedom in life. 

The magnanimity of spirit that you wish you had displayed toward your father near the end of his life, pay it forward to the next generation, to his child.

Wishing you peace, love and self-pardon,

Calsun

[P.F.Change]

The magnanimity of spirit that you wish you had displayed toward your father near the end of his life, pay it forward to the next generation, to his child.

What a lovely thought, Calsun.

[DreamGirl]

^^Can you imagine your Dad saying this exact same thing?^^

123Phoebe, you are such a breath of hope and comfort for me. 

I think I can imagine such a thing.

... . if he was no longer NPD, would he want you to be down on yourself for the things that "you should have done." 

Or would he understand and want you to feel a peace and joy, an utter happiness and freedom in life.  The magnanimity of spirit that you wish you had displayed toward your father near the end of his life, pay it forward to the next generation, to his child.

I think that he would want this.

I know that when I think of my own boys - I would want this for them. I don't want them to beat themselves up and I love them in all of who they are. They are perfectly human and perfectly OK just the way they are.

So I know this has a lot to do with my own self-loathing and thinking I should be "better".

Thank you everyone. So, so, so much... .

Thank you for understanding.