proactive or reactive whats best for the kids

[Baylor218]

My x with uBPD and I separated in 2009 and our divorce became final last summer.   I know a real long time.   In 2012, she found out I was dating someone and responded in many negative ways.   One of them was to stop paying the mortgage on the house that her and the kids are living in and a rental we have.   She went 10 months without making a payment so she could ruin my credit.   In our divorce agreement, it states she was going to short sale the house.   

Weeks after our divorce, she told me she worked out a modification with the mortgage company that would let her stay in the house but my name would still be on the mortgage.   I heard how badly our 3 kids wanted to stay in the house and I know that they did.   She said there would be a 3 month trial run and if she made the all the payments on time they would modify it.   I called the morg company and they confirmed what she told me so I agreed.   

A few months later, I asked her about the modification and she said it was approved and the loan is current.   I still have the email that confirms what she said.   A couple weeks ago, I filed for bankruptcy mainly so I could get my name off the mortgages.   I was not behind on any of my debts.  I deliberately waited until the modification went through so I wouldn't screw it up. 

She called me yesterday after finding out I filed for bankruptcy.  Yelling that because of me her and the kids were going to loose the house.   The morg company will no longer honor the modification.  They were gonna have to get rid of the dog.   Our 15 year old son wont be able to go to college.  etc.

I felt horrible and I called the morg company.   I found out today that she only made the first payment back in September and never made another payment and that the house was already in foreclosure as of Jan 1st.   I have the conversation recorded.   I know she is going to tell the kids its all my fault that she lost the house.

Do I tell the kids about all this first or should I wait until the come to me after they hear it from her?

[Free One]

My x with uBPD and I separated in 2009 and our divorce became final last summer.   I know a real long time.   In 2012, she found out I was dating someone and responded in many negative ways.   One of them was to stop paying the mortgage on the house that her and the kids are living in and a rental we have.   She went 10 months without making a payment so she could ruin my credit.   In our divorce agreement, it states she was going to short sale the house.   

Weeks after our divorce, she told me she worked out a modification with the mortgage company that would let her stay in the house but my name would still be on the mortgage.   I heard how badly our 3 kids wanted to stay in the house and I know that they did.   She said there would be a 3 month trial run and if she made the all the payments on time they would modify it.   I called the morg company and they confirmed what she told me so I agreed.   

A few months later, I asked her about the modification and she said it was approved and the loan is current.   I still have the email that confirms what she said.   A couple weeks ago, I filed for bankruptcy mainly so I could get my name off the mortgages.   I was not behind on any of my debts.  I deliberately waited until the modification went through so I wouldn't screw it up. 

She called me yesterday after finding out I filed for bankruptcy.  Yelling that because of me her and the kids were going to loose the house.   The morg company will no longer honor the modification.  They were gonna have to get rid of the dog.   Our 15 year old son wont be able to go to college.  etc.

I felt horrible and I called the morg company.   I found out today that she only made the first payment back in September and never made another payment and that the house was already in foreclosure as of Jan 1st.   I have the conversation recorded.   I know she is going to tell the kids its all my fault that she lost the house.

Do I tell the kids about all this first or should I wait until the come to me after they hear it from her?

How old are all the kids? Do you think they overheard mom's call to you? Have they mentioned anything to you about having to move?

[Matt]

Best to be pro-active, and as balanced and fair as you can be.  Waiting will allow her to frame it her way, so you will be on the defensive.

Also probably best to talk to each kid individually, and allow each of them to ask all the questions they want.

So... . if you were going to do that, how would you raise the subject, and what would you say?

[Baylor218]

my kids are 16,14, and 10.   they know loosing the house was a possibility but we all thought we that was in the past and she found away to keep the house.   she told the kids in the past that they we were loosing the house because i wasn't giving her child support money.   i had to print out 3 years of bank statements to prove i was giving her the money.   i told the kids i would show them the statements but they never wanted to look at them

[Baylor218]

The kids were with me when she called and I went into another room to talk. I don't think they heard anything, and they haven't asked about moving recently.

[Matt]

As an aside, if you aren't behind on other bills, I wouldn't consider bankruptcy.  Like lighting a candle with a flame-thrower.

Talking to the kids... . start with the oldest.  Think about how to say it - especially how to open up the subject.  Tell them the basic facts - keep it simple - then stop and ask if they have any questions.

Like maybe... .

"S16, I heard that your mom might be behind on her mortgage payments, and the house may be at risk.  I'm not involved with that anymore - I made all the payments I was supposed to but from what I understand she hasn't been making her payments and you guys might have to move.

"What usually happens in situations like this is that she'll probably find another place that's smaller so it will be easier for her to make the payments.  Maybe you can help her - you're old enough to be able to help look for places, and you can advise her to go for quality not size, so you end up someplace smaller but nice - that's what I would suggest anyway.

":)on't look at it as the end of the world, just a change.  You'll live in lots of places over the course of your life, and you're only a couple years from college anyway.  Mostly you should focus on school and your stuff and not get too concerned about where you'll live - there are lots of nice, smaller places around here.  See if you can help S14 and S10 understand this too - you can show them by example that you're focusing on your own stuff and not getting wound up about the house issue.

"I'm sorry you might have to move but I think it will be OK.  And you know if there's a problem you can always stay with me til it gets worked out.  OK - any questions?  :)oes that sound like a good approach to you... . ?"

[Baylor218]

sounds perfect, can you tell them with me?  long story short as far as the bankruptcy goes, i have over $550,000 in mortgages with her and she keeps missing payments and my credit score dropped almost 200 points.   she missed 14 months with one house and 10 with another.   my name is still on them and i cant get it removed otherwise   

[Matt]

sounds perfect, can you tell them with me?

I'd love to!  But probably best coming from you.  Pick whichever kid will deal with it best, and talk to him first, so you can learn from that - note how your approach works and make it better for the other kids.

My biggest challenge in giving kids bad news - and I've had the opportunity to do that several times over the years, worse stuff than having to move - is that I want to say too much, instead of just giving them the simple truth - in a positive way if that is possible - and then see what questions they have.  Usually they ask fewer questions than I expect, and their questions are very practical - how they will be affected.

When I told them, "I got a place two blocks away and that's where I'll be living now, and you guys can stay there with me part of the time once I get beds and stuff." my S8 said, "Will we still take the same bus to school?"  Not ":)o you and Mom still love each other?", or "Why is this happening?", or anything about the bigger picture - he wanted to know how it would affect him getting to school.  That's how it always seems to go - a few simple questions that I wouldn't have anticipated, and they're easy to answer, and then it's OK.

My gut tells me that's how it will be for your kids too - it may be that their mom is generating all the drama about moving, and to them it may not seem like that big of a deal, especially if you talk about it with them in simple, practical terms.

[Baylor218]

thanks for your help.  your responses have been re-assuring.  im so afraid im going to do something that is going to make things worse or more difficult for my kids

[Matt]

thanks for your help.  your responses have been re-assuring.  im so afraid im going to do something that is going to make things worse or more difficult for my kids

Yeah, it's easy to screw this stuff up if you don't think about it, but it's also easy to do it well, if you think ahead of time about what you want to say, and the best way to say it, for each kid.

Over a period of about three years, I had to tell my kids, "Grandpa died.", "Grandma died.", "We're going to live apart.", "We're going to get a divorce.", "The divorce is final.", "Your big brother was arrested." (several times), and - worst of all - "Your big brother is going to prison for six years."  All of them were horrible, in my mind, but all of them went fine - bad news is bad but I figured out (with some help) OK ways to say what had to be said.

And I definitely learned that pro-active is best - find the right time but don't wait for the perfect time because that will never come... .

[Baylor218]

Your suggestions sincerely helped. Sometimes it's hard to know where to begin,  but I plan to start with S16 this weekend. Again, thank you.

[livednlearned]

That was helpful for me too Matt. You always have really good ways of saying things.

I'm learning (after also doing the same thing Matt did, saying too much) is to say it simple, then ask, ":)o you have any questions for me?"

If so, then we move on. Topic done.

Sometimes, if it's a big deal topic, I'll come around to it in a more tangential way, when it's no longer connected to my ex, or something that might make S12 feel like he's in the middle.

Good luck, I hope you find the right words 

[ForeverDad]

I may be adding my two cents a few days too late but I'd suggest you get proof first.  If you have the paperwork in hand then it won't be your word against hers.  The loan repayment history displaying just a single payment and none since will speak for itself, well, at least until they're back with her and she overwhelms them again with her emotional distortions.

Hmm, she may still be able to shift blame to you anyway in the minds of the kids.  Remember that one of the goals of a pwBPD is to confuse everyone about the real facts, that's how they slide by for so long.  You finally woke up and know better now.  But for the children, this constant churn is all they've known.  For them their facts may be the story of the moment, depending on prevailing winds, the current temperature and ex's moods.  You know how intense and emotionally convincing she can be, right?  THAT is what your kids have to deal with.  Reasonableness and logic have an uphill struggle compared to a pwBPD's constantly changing but intensely withering emotionalism.

What you need to do, over time, is teach the children how to identify the facts, validate their observations and help them come to their own own fact-based informed conclusions.  This is a process, they've had years learning to doubt themselves, their observations and their conclusions, you won't redirect them in a day.

Some here have had a very difficult time getting off a mortgage.  If your name is on the mortgage, the lenders may respect the terms of the divorce decree - but probably not.  The only clean solution to free you is a refinance or a sale.  And our ex-spouses know how to drag it out for half of forever.  A lot of it is out of your hands now, but just don't enable her.  You won't ever 'fix' it so don't dig a deeper hole for yourself try to lessen the impact on her.

[david]

Make sure you have all the proof in a safe place.

I only communicate with ex through emails for proof                                                                  My S15 asks lots of questions about things his mom has told him. Some of it I address with the truth. Other things I explain are not something I believe we should talk about. It really depends on the issue. I do let both boys know I always make decisions based on what I think is best for them.

Divorce Poison by Bill Eddy is a good book about dealing with parental alienation.

I have also come to realize that I only believe things my ex says if I can prove it from another source. I have found she has an uncanny ability to twist anything around and blame me for it.

Recently she sent me an email telling me that my atty is no longer representing me. It didn't make sense and I didn't reply to her. Days later I was talking to my atty and told him what was in the email. He had no idea what ex was talking about either.