Do moral standards vary across different types: Waif, Hermit, Witch, Queen?

[coolioqq]

Does the amount of deception and disloyalty in relationships vary across the different types? What about the overall value system? If there are significant differences, what are the characteristics of each type in these terms? It would be good if we can get excerpts of published information (if any), but also personal experiences from nons, and opinions from pwBPD.

[Turkish]

Does the amount of deception and disloyalty in relationships vary across the different types? What about the overall value system? If there are significant differences, what are the characteristics of each type in these terms? It would be good if we can get excerpts of published information (if any), but also personal experiences from nons, and opinions from pwBPD.

Have you read this article on the site: BPD BEHAVIORS: Waif, Hermit, Queen, and Witch?

Mine was more Hermit-Waif, but the Witch would often come out, as well as the queen. She called herself all of these (Witch with a "B" except waif, which is probably only because she is ESL. Apologies if you read this somewhere else. I recall posting this to someone's thread recently... .

She was very loyal, me being accused of cheating or leaving constantly for the first half of our r/s. When she no longer felt the constant validation from me, she ended up cheating and abandoning me, as well as pathologically lying during the last 7 months, which was a new one. I don't know if we can categorize them so narrowly with regard to ethical behaviors. A lot depends upon FOO and culture, too.

[coolioqq]

Thanks for the thorough answer. By the way, what does ESL stand for? I'll probably facepalm since it may be something obvious .

So, she was loyal for a while? It must be really the fear of abandonment that drives every action in their lives then... .

Mine was a self-proclaimed hermit with moderate Waif features and just starting to be Queenish (i.e. "I don't care about money and gifts, but here's what you should get me and let's go places and expensive dining, at your expense of course". Except she was very good at pacing herself. She must have read a lot about her condition since she avoided idealization. As a matter of fact, she did the contrary, in subtle ways, probably thinking that she could control me through subtle attacks on my self-esteem. She'd do such things and as soon as she saw I was non-responsive (in a matter of hours), she'd come back saying that it was unintentional. I rarely gave any acknowledgment to that, although it did hurt. So I think she was testing the waters and, as soon as her fear of abandonment would kick in, she'd come back to reassure me that it was not intentional.

I am not sure what to believe about her now as we didn't really get beyond the honeymoon phase. Maybe I was her "guinea pig" while she was in therapy... . She claimed to have moral values that she stood by, until she admitted the opposite; so she was mirroring the whole time... . If she told me the truth (and I am pretty sure her actual admitting was partial at best) from the beginning, I'd probably sign up... . Boy, now I see how big of a mistake I would make.

Anyway, the reason I was asking, and I couldn't find specifics in the linked article, is because I wanted to know what kind of loyalty (if any) I could have expected from that type. Though I read that the types are pretty transient, and that most pwBPD go through all of these depending on the day and who they are with.

[Turkish]

ESL=English as a Second Language.

She was loyal for a while. I was the one constantly accused of being the one to cheat. Also to leave her. For the first three years, she'd ask me in bed as I was holding her (like a child), "you won't ever leave me, will you? You won't ever cheat on me?" Only after our first child did this stop. I attributed it to her maturing, and she did, but it was mirroring. Her BPD was too strong. A trigger for her affair was also, I think, her father being caught again with a kept woman a little over a year ago. We never discussed this, but I think there is something to it. She basically mirrored her father's behaviors, though at least her dad had the "decency" if I may call it that, to put on his hat and coat and go out of the house to talk to his gf. Mine all but threw it in my face for months. She made me out to be her father, she her mother, when in fact it was closer to the opposite. Morality and ethics flew out the window in the face of her core fears.

I don't know if we can really answer your question. They are still individuals, with their own unique FOO issues, and also cultural issues as was the case with mine, a confusing mixture of American feminism and Old World gender roles. I was expected to be both Liberal Man, and 1950s Father. It depended upon her mood.

I think that in the end, the thing to realize is that when triggered, they operate off of their core fears. The behaviors matter, not the words or the facade we see. Non PD'd people can operate off of their core fears as well, but being in control of our emotions, we can logically integrate the emotion and intellectual sides in a healthy manner. pwBPD can't, or it is very difficult for them to do so.