wants to move out at 17

[jellibeans]

So lately my dd16 has been threatening us with moving out of our home when she turns 17. We live in texas and the law on this is kind of grey. I am going to call our local police department to see what their response would be if I reported her as a run away but I was looking for some advise.

She has told me several times that her friends family has agreed to take her in and she could live with them. I don't think she can do this but this is what she is dreaming of night and day. She doesn't say this often but when she is really deregulated, she with throw this out at me and usually that is followed by a trip back into time where she is very verbally abusive to me. We no longer escalate to all out war but I see that old dd that I thought was kind of in the past... .it is like a wave comes over her and she looks at me with such hate... .I know I am foolish to think she won't have relapses but when things are going pretty good and then this step back happens it is hard for me not to be transported to another time and place when things were not good in our home... .when crying the day away in depair because I didn't know how to help my dd was the norm... .

How do you stop yourself from making that trip back in time... .it is difficult in that moment to remain positive and hopeful. I know I shouldn't take what she says personally but at the same time I feel I am being played... .that she is putting on a show for me and is hiding her real feelings. All the time plotting and planning her escape and her revenge for all the terrible things I have done to her. It just leaves me so very sad that she really doesn't appreciate anything we have done for her... .and she views us as the enemy.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[muffetbuffet]

jellibeans:  Sounds just like my house.  I totally agree that it is so very difficult to remain positive and hopeful and she views you as the enemy.  Our dd turned 17 this past week.  About a month ago, she announced that she was moving in with the boyfriend and his family.  We were against it, but unfortunately were not up for the fight.  We made contact with the school to let them know what was going on.  We called child protection services and they said as long as she is going to school, is doing ok in school and is not in trouble with the law there is really nothing they can do to help.  We could have called the police and they could have gone to pick her up and bring her home, but that would end up in a mess.  Our dd would have torn something up in our home and she would have left just as the police car pulled out of our driveway.  So... .at the time being dd is living with her boyfriend.  She is going to school  She calls us when she needs money or a ride somewhere.  We have strict limits on what we are doing for her.  We have taken our house key away from her so that she is not in our home unsupervised.  One day at a time and we pray each day that she makes it safely through the day. 

[theplotthickens]

My daughter is the exact same way.  She is always showing us in one way or another how much she hates us.  She has run away more times than I can count, she has slept under bridges for days at a time, slept in parks, and run to friend's houses.  The way I respond to her reflects my personal values and beliefs, and does not really reflect what I would prefer.  To be honest, 'letting it go' and living in peace sounds pretty tempting most days.  However, I will chase her down the the ends of the earth, as long as she is a minor, rather than letting her go.  Why? Simple.  She is vulnerable, she is immature, and she is my child.

When my dd has run to frends' houses, I call them and say that she is a minor and does not have my permission to be there.  I tell them that I will need to come and pick her up.  If she is out and about, I call the police and we chase her down or wait for her to get hungry enough to come home.

My personal belief is that that it is my job to protect, provide for, and teach her right from wrong.  My values and actions are not dependent upon my daughter's actions or symptoms.

My daughter is 17 now, and plans to leave here as soon as she turns 18.  She is very vulnerable, so she will probably need a guardian.  I have not decided if I am up for that, or if I will allow the county to take that over.

Do you have a social worker to help you navigate the laws in your state?  :)o you feel your daughter will make safe, appropriate decisions for herself at 17?


I am tired of being treated like scum of the earth, and tired of being hated.  However, my hope is in that God sees all, and my faith is giving me just enough strength to hold on another day.  The spiteful, mean way my daughter treats me can really get me down some days.

My advice is: be the parent and don't be intimidated by her threats and attempts to wear you down. If you are hesitating, or shrinking back, she will smell blood and it will embolden her.  Hold your boundaries, and let whatever comes come. I tell my daughter that no matter how big and bad she acts, I will NEVER stop loving her and being her mama.  No matter how nasty she is, I will not let her move out before 18.

She is not an adult until she turns 18, and with a mental health history, she may need additional support or guardianship.  In fact, most of the time, my daughter acts 3, NOT 17!  These kids are so dysregulated - I think they feel that if they could just start over in another place the dysregulation would magically disappear! Unfortuately, they follow themselves wherever they are.  

[lever.]

I think the law on this varies from place to place. In the UK the police will not return anyone over 16 home unless they are found in an unsafe environment. At 18 I guess young people are deemed free to live where they wish in most places.

I think sometimes these threats to leave home are linked to another issue currently being discussed, ie forming unhealthy attachments. Often the threat to leave home doesn't materialize because the unhealthy attachment breaks down. The pwBPD makes increasing demands and when the other party tries to back off they are no longer idealized.

My DD as a young adult used to make intense attachments to other adult women or families and was frequently hurt when they didn't live up to expectations. She often planned to move in with them.

The road to recovery is certainly rocky. My DD is now not recognizable as the young person who frequently raged and self-harmed and spent months in in-patient care.

However I recognise that "wave coming over". Something actually changes in her facial expression and I can see it coming~ and the verbal abuse begins.

I was reading a link on here to how emotional memory is formed and I think that we may be traumatised by things that have happened in the past, so that as soon as this happens the old emotions resurface.

What I find most helpful at these times is to try to use DBT skills myself. Just experience the emotion like a wave and let it go. To try to get back into wise mind and remind myself of the progress she has made.

Sometimes I do feel sad though at what I experience as ingratitude.  

[jellibeans]

Thanks for your reply... .I really appreciate it... .last night I just felt very sad about everything. She just returned from a weekend at the beach and of course didn't sleep at all there so not much had to happen for her to go off... .I do think there is an emotional memory because she started talking about things that happened years ago... .and her stay at RTC... so I do think she was transported back in time and I went for the trip with her.

I called the police department today and they told me she can not leave our home at 17 unless she has our permission... .my dd is very immature and I don't think she is stable enough to live outside of our home. I feel better that I know the law and it is on our side. Truly I am waiting for the day she leaves our home... .to experience that peace will be great but I also know she is no way ready for that right now.

For me I do have a hard time letting that moment wash over me... .I have been able to get to a point that things don't escalate but I still have a hard time when things go sour... .I really start reliving old times and she turns into someone from a year ago that was so abusive towards me I had to install a lock on my bedroom door to keep myself safe... .the ODD was very strong during that time... .she is extremely stubborn too.

I feel like this is a real transitional phase we are in... .she show a great deal of progress at times but then relapses very quicky and it is a tough time for us... .knowing when to give her freedoms and knowing when to put a boundary in place. It is the ingratitude at times that makes me sad... .but that could be a very teen thing and very normal.

[theplotthickens]

jellibeans,

Is it possible that she is testing boundaries to see what your reaction will be?  The real question may be, ":)o you love me enough to hang on?"  She may also have the belief that her problems will magically disappear in another home, which is putting the blame on you in a way.

I feel bad for you - it hurts me so badly when my dd wants to toss me aside.  She forms unhealthy attachments with others, and it goes downhill from there.

I am excited to hear you say that your daughter has been improving!  That is wonderful in and of itself!  If she is starting on old behaviors, maybe it would be worth it to put a call in to her therapist.  Maybe nipping it in the bud is better than getting back into the old dances?

Let us know how she is doing!  I am glad the law is on your side.  Laws that allow teens to live wherever they want without parental consent make absolutely no sense to me.  If a child is a minor, parents are responsible for them and should be supported in that role by law enforcement, if needed.   

[jellibeans]

amen theplotthickens... .she might be testing me and I know she blames anyone but herself for things that have happened in the past. I really wasn't upset with her and was able to remain calm but I can't help to feel the sting of her words. It is not that they really hurt my feelings because I know there is no truth in them is that she can go from being so sweet one minute when she wants something to being so hateful the next. I hate to say it but I do feel like I have keep my guard up all the time.

Today she seems better and hopefully will improve this week as she gets more sleep and rest. She really has come a long way and I have to remember that... .it was exactly a year ago that she was in RTC after trying to overdoes twice in one weekend... .I have to remind myself it could be so much worse.

[lbjnltx]

The immaturity coupled with the ODD drives these threats.  Don't engage during times of high emotional reactions... .walk away.  You are in control of you... .your thoughts and feelings are your responsibility.  Words to repeat that may help you stay calm:

This is only one moment in time.

This can change to calm as quickly as it changed to a storm.

Words to use that can defuse the storm:

I will give some thought to your statements and we can discuss it later.

Your daughter wants her freedom *typical teenager.  Her immaturity tells her that she will be so much happier without her parents' rules... .she truly believes this so validate her, let her know she is loved and that because she is loved you will run all decisions through that filter.   Then be prepared to stand strong and follow through no matter what the threats are.  She needs you to be that loving parent with strong boundaries and the stronger will to prevail through the storms.

One day and many days you will have to look at yourself in the mirror and fully know that you did everything you could do to help her.  I cannot stress this point strongly enough!  As she moves through life outside of your protection this may be the one truth that carries YOU through.   


lbj

[theplotthickens]

I woke up this morning thinking about you, jellibeans.  I am praying for you and for those of us who are facing a time of transition with our kiddos.

I had a thought. Could you use her desire to move out to your advantage?  Since she is motivated right now, maybe this is a teachable time and she will see the need to discover her passion in life, life skills she needs to live on her own, etc.

I am thinking aloud, but I am thinking I will give my 17 year old more adult responsibilities to let her "try on" living on her own.  Like a $50 budget, and she has to grocery shop and prepare her own meals for the week.  Then, maybe she could search for apartments, look at what it costs to buy a car, etc.

I am also thinking of having a virtual job fair, having my dd research the things she needs to do to get into her vocation.  She knows what she wants do to, but falls down on doing the daily work.  She has ADHD, and it is HARD for her to look past today.  Maybe the "I want to move out!" would be a positive step toward trying on new responsibilities, new behaviors, and new direction.  Slowly, one thing at a time.

Once our kids find a passion in life, they will throw themselves into it; be it good or bad!  One thing we can do as parents is guide them to a vocation, hobbies, and interests that give them joy and help fill the void of BPD. 

Maybe this "I want to move out" phase is an opportunity if we reframe it a little!  We can validate and expand on what is good and positive about it.  Hope you have a peaceful day!

[jellibeans]

Thank you lbjnltx... .your repsponse brought a tear to my eye... .I know you have been through a lot lately and I have not seen you on the boards much so it does mean a lot to me that you have responded to my post. I really value your opinion and I am trying very hard to do just that. I think I have really improved on not escalating and defusing her but I just really need to stop taking what she says personally. My dd16 has made some good improvements over the past year and maybe this is why the lows are extra low for me. I hope you and your dd are well.

this is my new quote to put by my computer

This is only one moment in time.

This can change to calm as quickly as it changed to a storm.

theplotthickens... .I think you are so right... .I have been trying to help my dd explore career paths and interests... .she is a junior so I do think she feel some pressure to figure that out and that might be overwhelming for her. I do think once she finds what excites her she will do better. She will be able to focus on that one thing. She has actually just got a job which I think is the reason for her wanting to move out. I think she thinks she can support herself but her first pay check was not very much so I am hoping she sees that moving out won't be possible. My dd16 already takes care of her own meals... .she rarely eats with us and I do beleive she has an eating disorder but nothing I want to draw attention to... .her P is keeping an eye on her weight.

Thanks again for your responses... .gives me a new perspective and I really value that.

[muffetbuffet]

Ok feeling a bit sad here and feeling like a horrible parent!  The fact that our dd is living with her boyfriend was NOT a choice that we wanted nor do we support it.  It really had come to a point that my husband and I just could not emotionally handle the fighting about dd staying home.  It has been a long four year battle of placements and services in and out of the home.  We maintain contact with dd when she needs something.  We do not jump at the moment that she calls, but if the request is reasonable, we will assist her ( a ride, money, food, etc... .).  We did enjoy a dinner out with dd and her boyfriend this past weekend for her birthday.  Probably the longest we have been together for a long time and there was no arguing.  Actually enjoyed her company.  So, making our dd stay home is certainly what she should be doing, but unfortunately there are times that other choices have to be made. We are unsure if this will work out for her, but we continually tell her that she always has the option to move back home should things not work out.  Not sure how that would go, but she has to understand that  we did not give up on her.  We love her dearly and would do anything for her. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[theplotthickens]

Our 17 does not eat with us either. She refuses to use any table manners and refuses to refrain from criticizing everything I cook, the way I chew, etc.  I have set a boundary that she needs to be polite if she wants to dine with us, and she'd rather eat alone if she can't make everyone miserable.  Is it common for BPDers that they don't want to eat with their families for one reason or another?

[jellibeans]

muffet

I have followed your story... .don't be sad... .I really thought you made the right choice for your dd... .I am not sure right now what the right decision is for my dd16 but you are right sometimes you have to let them go. We will see what this summer brings and hopefully I will have the wisdom to do the right thing.

ps I am glad you got to see dd for her bday!

[theplotthickens]

Muffetbuffet,

With our extreme kids and the extreme behaviors, there is only so much we can do.  We are bound to come to different conclusions and use different tactics to accomplish peace and healing in our homes.  :)on't feel like a bad parent!  You are the expert on your child and only you can make the calls that make the most sense for your situation.  We come from a variety of perspectives, which are all valuable to the original posters (I hope).  Peace to you!  

[muffetbuffet]

Having already raised one teenager and now dealing with BPD daughter, I would say that not eating with the family (or enjoying anything with the family) at this age is pretty typical teenage behavior. When our kids were younger we always ate dinner together as a family.  If someone was having a bad day, they might ask to eat later, but it was the exception and not the norm.  Once the kids got to the age of 15 or so, it started becomming an issue with both of our kids about eating as a family.  Some things are just not worth fighting about.  Guess it makes me enjoy the special occassions even more when we do sit down as a family now to eat dinner.  Son lives out of state so we don't get to see him much :'(

[jellibeans]

Tonight my dd was fired from her job. I hope she can deal with it and try and learn from this experience. I have tried to comfort her. I do believe it was pretty harsh for her first mistake but that is how it goes. She really has a hard time realizing that life is not always fair and there will be more times when things are not fair. I am sad for her and I do have a little fear she will not cope well with this. Today was her anniversary of going RTC one year ago.  I really can't make this sh@t up❤️

[theplotthickens]

I bet this will take care of the "I can move out" nonsense!  No job=no apartment/food/car.  What perfect timing!  And it didn't come from Mom. 

[jellibeans]

yes I do think this would be considered a set back for those move out plans... .I really hope she doesn't find a boy to move out with because I think that might be plan B... .I will keep ya'll posted

[llbee814]

Oh, I hear that!   I couldn't help but snicker to myself... .my dd18, without a doubt, must have at least half a dozen boys waiting in the wings.  That's in addition to the "steady" boyfriend.  Blech.      some things are soo predictable.  But,  radical acceptance ... .works for me.

[muffetbuffet]

Sitting here chuckling myself about the boys.  Our dd called yesterday AM to ask if she could move back home as she and the boyfriend had a huge fight.  I of course said yes, but did not rush to get to her.  She was in no danger and as expected she changed her mind several times during the day about her decision.  Brought her home around 5 PM and by 10:00 PM when I went to bed, she was already happy, smiling and talking to another guy.  We had a therapist tell us at one point that dd is searching for that male connection.  Not sure about your situation, but our dd was adopted and for whatever reason she has never made a connection with my husband.  We plan to have a family meeting tonight or tomorrow to put expectations in writing so there is no misunderstanding about expectations for behavior. 

[jellibeans]

muffet

that really turned out for the best didn't it? My dd16 doesn't have a strong relationship with her Dad... .I am afraid my H doesn't really get alot with many people... .he is nice but her really doesn't put the effort forth to keep friends... .most of his friends are the husbands of my friends... .he is socially challenged... he also suffers from depression... .

Well how long did it last? her move out seemed really short.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[peaceplease]

jellibeans - I know that I am late coming into this thread.  I agree that your dd is definitely limit testing.  Good to know that she has no control until she is 18.  I thought the age for all states was 18.  But, then they have different ages for different matters. eg  In my state, there is no statutory rape claim if teen is 16.  Crazy!  It should be 18!

My dd is 29 and her words still sting.  I know in my head not to take words personally.  My dd can say some very cruel things when she is mad.  First, she will attack me for marrying my dh, and tell me that I was/am a horrible mother.  And, then there are other times that she will say how much she appreciates me sticking by her through all her screw ups.  And, she even loves my dh!  But, when she is angry she puts us on the  other side of the continuum.

And, we all know and appreciate the wisdom of lbjnltx!  She is so right about doing everything you can while you still have control.  It sounds as you are doing all that you can.

I am sorry about your dd losing her job.  How is she handling it?

[jellibeans]

Thanks for your reply peaceplease... .I really value your opinion... .I am still learning and I don't think I will ever get to a place where I think I have it all worked out. (I guess that is okay too... that is the perfectionist in me trying to get things perfect)

I am not sure how my dd is doing really... .she seems okay... .maybe relieved she doesn't that the stress of the job. I know she found it a bit stressful. It is a good life lesson for her. Her older sister is coming home for Easter and she has offered to go pick up applications for a new job... .we will see if she does that or not.

Tonight she has a sore throat... .we cylce through these things... .she might be too sick for school tomorrow... .it is all kind of predictable but I have my fingers crossed. so far she is coping ok but I do think she was very hurt by the whole thing... .her statement about it not being fair was echoed over and over again... .it is hard lesson... .life is not alway fair.

[muffetbuffet]

DD lived with the boyfriend for almost two months.  Just had a good talk this am with her and she shared that she already has a new boyfriend.  Fortunately he is out of state so that is a bit less drama to deal with.  She still has he sights set on leaving home when she turns 18 (March 2015) regardless of whether she has her diploma or not.  Just wish she would be willing to commit to sticking it out for an entire school year next year so that she can graduate. 

One day at a time. 

[jellibeans]

UPDATE: my dd really seemed to be struggling today and had a meltdown... .starting telling me about moving out again at 17... .I told her that I called the police and got advice from them and that they told me that until she is 18 we are reponsible for her etc... .I offered to give her the number so she could talk directly with the officer... .this help stop the circling arguement and her anger from getting away from her.

She then went on to another topic and was sobbing on and off again. AT one point she started to get really angry and I told her we were done discussing and that we could discuss it further when she calms down... .she handled that pretty well... .she went back to the crying and told me she was sorry. Things went pretty good but I hope she can get through the next couple of months without issues.

I feel we are so close yet so far at the same time.

[muffetbuffet]

I feel we are so close yet so far at the same time.


jellibeans you couldn't have said it any better! I so agree about my relationship with my dd. 

[DKW]

We dealt with this also at 17.5 with our uBPDd.  Because of incidents in her past, she was familiar with youth shelters.  She chose to leave, while on the first leg of a two week vacation.  She had contacted several Transitional Living Programs and was actively trying to enter one.  Because she was living at home, she was not able to get into a program when she wanted.  She still believes that everything should happen just when she wants--otherwise, people are treating her badly.  She made arrangements to enter a shelter that also had a TLP.  Ater several days, she got in a fight ans was asked to leave the program.  I had to go get her ... .she moved to another shelter.  From there, she was able to get into a TLP.  In five months, she left the TLP because they were treating her badly.  She quit following rules and actually ran away from the program. Fast forward three months, she is in her 3rd living arrangement, no job, demanding a car.  When she left, there was not anything legally we could do, as in our state, running away is not considered illegal.  At 17.5, the authorities would not do anything as long as she was in a shelter or program.

I have to give her credit:  she wanted out and advocated for herself--she set up the arrangements for the shelter and the TLP.  We told her that we would not pay rent and bills for her if she left before finishing high school.  Right now, she is living in very similar conditions to what she was living while with her biological mother.  Unfortunately, this seems to be more comfortable for her than living in a stable home.

I visit with her several times a week, as long as she is on her meds and civil.  We keep track and make sure she has her meds and stays up on her appointments.  She has declared her independence, but is very much dependent on other people to take her in and meet her needs. 

I understand your concern.  We had threats of moving out since she was 14.  Social services was not much help to our family.  The JPO was more helpful, but that experience is what helped her to be aware of the shelter and TLP possibilities.

[muffetbuffet]

DKW... .Our dd is so similar.  When she moved out to live with the boyfriend, the living situation was very similar to that with her birth family.  Not making judgments about this family, but it is just not the way we live.  DD really seemed to enjoy the comforts of home when she moved back a week ago.  It was surprising to me the first time she was home for a dinner.  I had cooked something and she responded "home food".  Yeah!  Living with boyfriend consisted of fast food and pizza.  As you said, it must be a comfort zone for our kids.