oh no... i think i'm white again.

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

A day after i broke,NC ... . last nite in fact. She texts me. She says i want a pain killer. Out of nowhere. Then she texts... . sorry that wasnt meant for you. Then i said no prob. And the flood gates let loose ... . not one apology nothing. She said u wanna know why i broke up with you. She said you were too controlling and you stress me the ___ out. Ha. I guess she forgot the reason was that i busted her cheating and lying again, but instead of not doing it... . or talking about it. It was easier to banish me again. So i met her this afternoon. She got in my car and lectured me. Lmao. And keep in mind shes back with her ex and in love w him. But she says she cant love anyone ... . that she shut down a long time ago. She said... . you want to be with me then just obey me and stop arguing wth me. She said its that simple. Then she got out of the car and said we can talk more after work... . and she wants to eat something... . and she might let me kiss her. I swear she said this... . shes so crazy. This lame brain is what i was pining away for? Two months of NC and all the crap she put me thru and that is what she said. Now... . i probably could get her panties off again if i devalue myself and stick my pride in the dirt. ... . but i was with my ex ex last nite and she was so normal so funny... . sharing... . sex was really great... . i feel about as validated as im going 2 get. I think its my turn to go NC. Whats wrong with me that i would consider being wth someone that is only using me and could not give a ___ less?

.

[Split black]

A day after i broke,NC ... . last nite in fact. She texts me. She says i want a pain killer. Out of nowhere. Then she texts... . sorry that wasnt meant for you. Then i said no prob. And the flood gates let loose ... . not one apology nothing. She said u wanna know why i broke up with you. She said you were too controlling and you stress me the ___ out. Ha. I guess she forgot the reason was that i busted her cheating and lying again, but instead of not doing it... . or talking about it. It was easier to banish me again. So i met her this afternoon. She got in my car and lectured me. Lmao. And keep in mind shes back with her ex and in love w him. But she says she cant love anyone ... . that she shut down a long time ago. She said... . you want to be with me then just obey me and stop arguing wth me. She said its that simple. Then she got out of the car and said we can talk more after work... . and she wants to eat something... . and she might let me kiss her. I swear she said this... . shes so crazy. This lame brain is what i was pining away for? Two months of NC and all the crap she put me thru and that is what she said. Now... . i probably could get her panties off again if i devalue myself and stick my pride in the dirt. ... . but i was with my ex ex last nite and she was so normal so funny... . sharing... . sex was really great... . i feel about as validated as im going 2 get. I think its my turn to go NC. Whats wrong with me that i would consider being wth someone that is only using me and could not give a ___ less?

.

[AwakenedOne]

She said... . you want to be with me then just obey me and stop arguing with me. She said its that simple.

obey?

[Changingman]

When I didn't know anything about BPD my xW would say we are over, loads of push push push, she would be very distant then ' I've met someone else, I'd leave, move to a new place. She'd phone 2 weeks later telling me I'd ruined her life for leaving. Like really angry, I had abused her and was a total b. Then the pleading, I'll change, stalking etc. It was so confusing I couldn't understand it, didn't realise she was sowing a story everywhere. It is so odd, such weird behaviour. You can't expect the normal traits of people, it is such deception/self deception.

My latest xGF started these traits, but on a different style at the end I was shocked to connect the core behaviours. Though it was me making her like it... . then

Oh Lord I Just Got It.

My relationships with people are peppered now with me saying... .

'Say what you actually mean'

Word salad, talking around the core 'problem', other odd things not to do with me are not tolarated anymore. People really bring their own stuff to other conversations.

[JLK1011]

She said... . you want to be with me then just obey me and stop arguing wth me. She said its that simple. Then she got out of the car and said we can talk more after work... . and she wants to eat something... . and she might let me kiss her.



What? Really?

[coolioqq]

She said... . you want to be with me then just obey me and stop arguing wth me. She said its that simple. Then she got out of the car and said we can talk more after work... . and she wants to eat something... . and she might let me kiss her.



What? Really?

When mine was in the car, before I went NC and broke it off, she was so cold and distant, I could drop dead right there and she wouldn't care. At least you made her act dramatically :-).

Also, that's some erratic stream of thoughts there - food, slavery, kissing... . I hope she said enough for you to make a decision good for you.

[oldweasel]

RUN! AS FAST AS YOU CAN!

[winston72]

SB, what is your answer to your question:

"Whats wrong with me that i would consider being wth someone that is only using me and could not give a ___ less?"

What are you trying to accomplish by continuing to engage her?  Is taking turns going NC achieving anything for you? 

"I think its my turn to go NC."

It seems like you want to repeat these dramatic encounters and then declare that she is a lame brain.  Certainly you are not discovering anything new.  And you are criticizing her for getting in your car and lecturing you while back with her ex while you are telling us that you are back having great sex with your ex ex.

I am sure that your critique of your ex is accurate.  She indeed sounds like a very troubled personality who has caused you great pain and damage.  But it might be time to examine yourself as vigorously as you are examining her.  This pattern between the two of you does not seem to be generating good outcomes for you and they might well be energizing an avoidance of the steps you need to get better.

[Waifed]

Actually Winston I would love to spend an afternoon with my ex knowing what I do now about her probable illness.  It would probably help me completely shut the door on things to confirm what I now believe to be true about her.  I won't contact her to do so but if she ever contacted (she is a timid waif so I doubt this will ever happen) I would agree to meet her one last time.  Why? I don't know because her actions were enough for me to leave in the first place.  It is just something that I would like to see for myself to completely move on.

[winston72]

Hey Waifed, I had the need and the desire to revisit (I am consciously not using the word recycle because my contacts with her were quite varied in purpose and substance) things with my ex and I did so on many occasions.  For a season I wanted to pursue any possibility of a future with her, no matter how remote, and then I wanted and seemingly needed to test and verify many of my assumptions and understandings about her, us and me.  So, your comments about seeing for yourself resonate with me... . more than that, they were my experience.  And, even though it did create a lot of pain for me, I think I needed to keep going until I really was finished.  I had a few of those "just one last time" meetings.  And, finally, there was a last time.  And then I was ready for it.

My response to SplitBlack was, hopefully, to emphasize some self examination in the current engagement.  I think that is the key to finding a better path for each of us, before we even make decisions about how to relate to someone, or not.  I think this is what the five stages of detachment are emphasizing.

If you think one more meeting with your ex would be helpful to you, is there a reason why you do not initiate it?

[LettingGo14]

I think I needed to keep going until I really was finished.  I had a few of those "just one last time" meetings.  And, finally, there was a last time.  And then I was ready for it.

I felt like ___ after breaking NC two days ago, but this is a good point.  Everything about detaching has been a process, and I went until I was finished.

I feel like a million bucks today (though maybe it's because I'm in California for work -- haha).  I suddenly feel free of the drama -- because I realize, without a doubt, that the drama was dysfunctional.   It killed me to be painted black, but the more I detach, the more I can take it, and accept that I kept going until I didn't need to anymore.

Thanks for this thread.   

[goldylamont]

SB, what is your answer to your question:

"Whats wrong with me that i would consider being wth someone that is only using me and could not give a ___ less?"

What are you trying to accomplish by continuing to engage her?  Is taking turns going NC achieving anything for you?  

"I think its my turn to go NC."

It seems like you want to repeat these dramatic encounters and then declare that she is a lame brain.  Certainly you are not discovering anything new.  And you are criticizing her for getting in your car and lecturing you while back with her ex while you are telling us that you are back having great sex with your ex ex.

I am sure that your critique of your ex is accurate.  She indeed sounds like a very troubled personality who has caused you great pain and damage.  But it might be time to examine yourself as vigorously as you are examining her.  This pattern between the two of you does not seem to be generating good outcomes for you and they might well be energizing an avoidance of the steps you need to get better.

Hey Waifed, I had the need and the desire to revisit (I am consciously not using the word recycle because my contacts with her were quite varied in purpose and substance) things with my ex and I did so on many occasions.  For a season I wanted to pursue any possibility of a future with her, no matter how remote, and then I wanted and seemingly needed to test and verify many of my assumptions and understandings about her, us and me.  So, your comments about seeing for yourself resonate with me... . more than that, they were my experience.  And, even though it did create a lot of pain for me, I think I needed to keep going until I really was finished.  I had a few of those "just one last time" meetings.  And, finally, there was a last time.  And then I was ready for it.

My response to SplitBlack was, hopefully, to emphasize some self examination in the current engagement.  I think that is the key to finding a better path for each of us, before we even make decisions about how to relate to someone, or not.  I think this is what the five stages of detachment are emphasizing.

If you think one more meeting with your ex would be helpful to you, is there a reason why you do not initiate it?

Winston, i think both of your posts are wise and awesome as they sum up reasons why we stay in touch with our ex's post-breakup. Sometimes our first reaction is to tell people to go 100% NC and never look back--but then when we look at our own journey we realize that this isn't what we did. I stayed in contact with my ex for about 9 months after she left, on and off--and i don't regret it at all. It was something I needed to do to fully convince myself that she was someone that I had to fully cut out of my life. I've only cut one other person completely out of my life before (a college buddy)--it's a big decision. So, now she makes two--but those extra 9 months I needed with her for my own benefit.

I think anyone dealing with a breakup needs to do a simple equation to assess whether any contact is beneficial to you: Is the inevitable pain worth the extra info you will gain from the experience? I was hurt a bit more, sure, by keeping in touch with my ex post-breakup. But in my case was worth it because I controlled myself and I mitigated my losses. I created a test, which she failed spectacularly so now I have my answer.

So if you do choose to stay in contact, do so responsibly and for your own good. You're an adult (i hope!) and can make your own decisions, but others here will justifiably question your motives... .

[2010]

She said u wanna know why i broke up with you. She said you were too controlling and you stress me the ___ out.

Both of you are controlling. Both of you appear to be addicted to drama and using each other like compulsions. Both of you are stressed, stressing each other out and then using the other to blame for being stressed.

In explaining Borderline actions, we frequently commit what’s known as a fundamental attribution error. We attribute a person’s behavior to their inner dispositions so much that we may discount situational forces. The error occurs because we focus on the person and not the situation.  The situation in your life appears to be constantly changing. It is dramatic and erratic. There is no stability. When there is no stability, people do not listen to what the other is saying. They remain focused on control.

And keep in mind shes back with her ex

And you are back with your ex. There is no difference between you two, because this is about a fundamental lack of trust. It is also about disloyalty. It’s about pain and the compulsive need to revisit your wounding.

Both of you are using others by recycling relationships that were on the back burner. And both of you are in emotional deprivation because every one of your relationships appear to have a foundation of mistrust. They are without security and calm-they swivel on the movement of third parties.

That’s not very fulfilling except in a manner that may replicate your earlier conflicts from memory. Relationships like these require constant bartering and baiting, hiding and defending... . controlling. Neither of you can be alone and face your problems about being alone because you suffer from the magic of fighting.

She probably is in survival mode and will likely attach to whomever gives her what she wants. What about you? Are you also in survival mode? Why is it better to recycle an ex who left you for another man but has now returned and then you agree to meet another woman who has left you for another man and now returned to meet you in a car -rather than protecting your boundaries by being alone and addressing the possibility that you are deeply hurt and don't trust anyone? Have you ever stayed single for a few months to figure yourself out? Why not?

But she says she cant love anyone ... .

Believe her.

Now... . i probably could get her panties off again if i devalue myself and stick my pride in the dirt. ... . but i was with my ex ex last nite and she was so normal so funny... . sharing... . sex was really great... .

The mention of the security blanket is telling but it doesn’t solve anything, now does it? Again, what is the difference between her cheating and your surreptitiously meeting her in a parked car while you both consider cheating on third parties? You are both returning to people that are being used like transitional objects. That’s a fancy term for security blankets. If you are both using others to soothe the abandonment stress and are continuing to connect outside of those relationships, how will you ever trust anyone and how will you learn to self-soothe without using others? I’ve counted at least five people involved in this drama. Why do you think you are conditioned to accept these non-existent boundaries and the dramatic erratic behaviors? What conditioned you to accept this stress?

Whats wrong with me that i would consider being wth someone that is only using me and could not give a ___ less?

You’ve probably had a difficult childhood that was never resolved. Because you haven’t taken a moment to address that, you now return in a repetition compulsion to re-live it. You’ve used damaged women like band-aids to avoid your own introspection and you fail to see your own participation in the drama triangles when you are constantly moving around them like a game of musical chairs.

You’ve got to ask yourself the difficult questions about why being involved in such drama has a strong pull for you over maintaining integrity, which is so important for your future happiness and peace of mind. 

[Split black]

@2010... .  I will pay you to spend a week in my mind cleaning it. As usual you are spot on... . except for the introspection part... . and deep self evaluation. I have been in therapy for the good part of 6 months... . there is no doubt that my childhood has played a part in my adult relationships... . however... . I was married once for 13 years and never cheated. Then again in another relationship for 9 years... . it was in the 10th that old patterns resurfaced. You have   on and you can see what is going on so transparently. I find it very difficult to not get caught up in the drama. Im addicted to this idiotic drama as much as anything... . and the void it left in my life makes everything else dull and boring. Im working on that. I have a full life and a good career, and lots of close and dear friends who know nothing about her. Ive kept her in the closet as much as she has kept me... . primarily due to our age difference. It was doomed from the start, and I did play my part. In terms of controlling... . when she says that to me, its translated as I want to bang whoever I want when I want but I want you to remain faithful. At least thats how it was.

There is a core fundamental difference between my exBPDgf and myself... . and that is empathy. I feel deeply, and not just for myself, for others... . I can love and Ive been very wounded by love in the past with other nons. Thats life, it happens and Ive hurt people as well. But never intentionally... . never malignantly. I think you are correct when you say I too am in survival mode. Im not healed from these past few years... . I dont think this old heart can take another hit. I pretty much know it cant. My walls probably now match hers... . but in terms of that I can not compete. She can walk away without a thought... . except when it comes to using me for something apparently. What waste of NC. Ive learned nothing. I suffered greatly. And although I am not pitch black anymore, Im definitely not super white either. She may or may not contact me again... . I dont know. Im trying not to care. I am going out of state for a week and wont be available. She said to call her when I get back today... .  I said why? So you can continue to hurt me?

Her behavior today... . which continued via text until a short while ago was a mind fogging exercise in futility and frustration.  Nothing about the day ended up as planned... . because she broke more promises... .   She did things today that were so incredibly selfish, and even when pointed out to her, the answer was like talking to a 5 year old. Her excuses made no sense and the conversation became circular as always. I started slapping my palm into my forehead. This evening as the text rally escalated... . because she cant carry on a conversation via the phone without hanging up... . She did say "kewl" now stop texting me those things. " Good-nite, and have a nice vacation". Translated means shes had about enough and its time for me to go away again.  Those things I texted were what she did today to cause me frustration, and a synopsis of her own co-dependent issues with her other ex of 4 years.

They dynamic between us is now very toxic. Im sure my own behavior has been reduced to borderline traits. I want to rescue her, she complained again that shes working two jobs and broke... . and her now not ex boyfriend who she insists she loves is making her pay for an old car of his. We were near a pharmacy and she asked to borrow 20 dollars. I gave her a 50. She said she would bring back change, she refused to give it to me. She said you dont need it I do, Im broke... . My addiction to her sexually is still intense. She pushed pulled all day. I stayed above it the best I could.

I really did need today to happen. I feel so much worse. All the old anxiety and angst returned. My blood pressure was probably off the charts.  I thought at one point I loved her. After today I just dont like her. I dont like her personality... . whatever honeymoon phase we had is hardly remembered. Even the good times were laced with mostly frustration and disappointment, broken promises and lies. I did not cheat on this young woman.

I do get it 2010. Im trying my best. Im hurting. And a shout out to Winston72. You made some very valid points.

[Split black]

She said... . you want to be with me then just obey me and stop arguing wth me. She said its that simple. Then she got out of the car and said we can talk more after work... . and she wants to eat something... . and she might let me kiss her.



What? Really?

Yeah... . she said exactly that... . and a whole lot more throughout a very disturbing afternoon and evening.

[Split black]

I want to add one more thing... .   Im trying to assess which is more physically, and emotionally uncomfortable... .   having gone NC and being banished until today... . Or spending a part of the day face to face off and on while she ran into and out of her work, as I drove around doing chores and returning to spend some time with her and talk, but that never really happened in terms of quality.

I think its equal... . the banishment was very excruciatingly hard. But being around her, the anxiety and never ending frustration it produces is equally as difficult. More like... . drowning, and panic... . while at the same time having her in my presence, and not being able to be sexual, knowing shes going to be with someone else, hurtful almost beyond relief. 

The difference is... . and I really need and want to believe this to be true... . that if I can somehow re- construct boundaries... . and allow her to go live her life without me in it as part of a triangle, that the pain will subside... . and someday... . I might beable to have a normal drama free relationship with a woman again... . and not feel bored and empty.