Panic attacks

[Subotai]

Hi, I am sitting here on my sofa with a mild panic attack that has lasted most of today and so I figured this might be a great opportunity to write my introduction to this forum in the hope that it may have some therapeutic value.

I am a mid-40s male currently separated from my uBPDw who is a few years younger than I with two teenage kids from a former marriage. We have been together for over 4 years and married just a few months ago. The relationship has been extremely difficult from the beginning yet an underlying sense of ‘soul mate’ – ‘I know this person from a former life’ – ‘only true love of my life’ has perpetuated our connection despite any of the suffering typical for this kind of relationship.

Without knowing what I was dealing with I was hoping to remove the worst problems stemming from her incessant jealousy and abandonment issues by getting married. Of course things got worse soon after and I finally found this forum and became certain that my wife is a poster child for BPD behavior patterns.

Since a recent visit of a close friend at which her anger escalated and she threatened to crash the new car I had just bought her I am suffering from regular panic attacks. As she was yelling at me on the phone telling me she was running red lights and going to crash the car the phone cut out. In panic I jumped in my car and drove to her place fully expecting to see a smoking wreck with her bloody body hunched over the steering wheel somewhere on the road, yet I arrived at her apartment without incident.

Nothing happened during this episode of road rage and much of what was being said turned out to be fabricated. However that insane fear of seeing her injured has stuck with me ever since. It’s been a month now and I regularly wake up with panic attacks. It’s gotten a little better recently but a barrage of hateful text messages this morning has made it linger all day today.

I have never had panic attacks in my life and this is very difficult to deal with, especially since I am working fulltime as an engineer on a critical project that requires my full attention.

I have not yet had the strength to file the divorce papers as I have been continuously hoping some divine intervention will fix everything and we will be a happy couple. Yet at every T session we have she rips me a new one and sometimes I can use my bpdfamily tools and just sit and validate and sometimes I get so hurt that I fire back with a vengeance.

She has a very, very sad history with incidents of abuse that go beyond what I and most people, including Ts, can comprehend and cope with. I have gotten sucked into the drama, lost all my self-esteem, money and most all my friends and even many in my family have turned their back on me.

I am determined to fix my broken relationships with friends and family and to remove myself from all the suffering of this part of my life, yet just the slightest thought of how she suffers makes me want to go back into full blown rescuer mode and give her more of my money to squander or of my self-esteem to trash. Heck, I love her to death, almost literally. It must stop and I hope I can figure out how to get it done.

[pessim-optimist]

Hello Subotai,



Wow, what a day, huh? I am so sorry, I hope you are starting to feel a bit better - writing it down helps too... .

I am also sorry that the therapy sessions seem to be so destructive to you and your sense of self-worth - have you thought about getting your own therapist to be able to address all the issues that you are dealing with, and maybe even to get some of the anxiety under control? Having a person w/BPD is a lot to have on one's plate... .

I am glad you have found us, you are not alone in this. We are here for you - to listen, to offer advice, to point you to tools that might be useful, and to offer a friendly hand on your journey while you figure this all out.

Do you have any private space/ time that you carved out for yourself when you can get away from the issues and calm down? It sounds like your job is demanding and too much stress in our personal life can be detrimental to that... .

When is the deadline for your project? Are you going to be a be to breathe a bit more freely after that?

[Subotai]

Thanks for the welcome pessim-optimist!

Since the car incident I refused to see my wife except during partner counseling sessions and we only spoke on the phone or texted. I still have my own place because of lease terms, so I have a somewhat safe place.

The fact that I refuse to see her because of my physical anxiety has made her very upset since she needs physical affection and sex intensely. She usually becomes very kind and loving to lure me back in but as soon as we are together the little stabs and accusations start very quickly.

This is this insane Catch 22, damned if I do, damned if I don't. I've struggled with this sense of inability to break this cycle for all the years we have been together. I consider myself an intelligent guy but I have never been able to find a rational, sensical solution that still supports the relationship.

In any case, as I have not responded to the loving requests to try again, asking for a more comprehensive change, she became extremely angry and hysterical in her texts yesterday where she cursed me to hell. The hysteria is what triggers my own anxiety the most, I've dealt with it so many times, being frightened out of my mind, sometimes for her, sometimes for myself.

She just started DBT group and individual counseling. She probably thinks that should be good enough to get back with her and give her another chance. A part of me wants nothing more but I am so frightened of the emotional violence, so I can't get myself to do it.

From her texts yesterday it looks like we are NC now.

What would help me the most would be some tools to deal with the addiction of wanting to contact her and the inability to move on. I am depressed and have no motivation and it affects my work. The project is another 2 months at least, probably longer.

I think the only way for me to move on is to bring as much physical distance between me and here and get a job at the other end of the country. Or perhaps migrate back to Germany where I came from.

I am not a simple guy and I have plenty of issues from my past. I am not very emotionally capable but I try my best. I was born in Germany and my parents where WWII survivors who knew what it means to have nothing, not even food. They where emotional imbicels and divorced when I was a teen, but they did teach me how to take care of myself and have a somewhat successful career.

Living in the USA and seeing my BPD partner with no sense of value for money or the effort it takes to earn it has been incredibly difficult. She has been supported by her guilt ridden mom all her life and I don't think that will ever change though she is trying hard to learn to be able to hold on to a job.

How do I stay NC when I get so lonely and desperate? How to make new friends when I barely remember how to smile?

[Subotai]

I forgot to add a word about therapists. I have seen a few alone and with her. Men Ts usually don't support the relationship since on a rational level it has always been too dysfunctional. Female Ts often find me too emotionally incapable, maybe because as Americans they don't understand the German culture enough.

I am pretty fed up with Ts, especially since I need to save every penny to get out of debt, and instead I think I focus on doing a lot more yoga, but I am not sure yet, I may go see one at the spur of the moment.

[pessim-optimist]

This is this insane Catch 22, damned if I do, damned if I don't. I've struggled with this sense of inability to break this cycle for all the years we have been together. I consider myself an intelligent guy but I have never been able to find a rational, sensical solution that still supports the relationship.

This made me smile, Subotai... . I know what you are talking about. Relationships don't always make sense, and we don't always do what's logical. It also helps to "get out of the FOG" as we say here - FOG - standing for "Fear, Obligation, and Guilt". That FOG can definitely cloud our judgment. We have a workshop on that topic that might help: Workshop - US: What it means to be in the “FOG”

Also, there is a good article about the "10 things that can keep us stuck in a BPD relationship" here:

https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/10_beliefs.pdf

It describes some of the reasons for our inability to separate ourselves from the person w/BPD.

It seems to me that at this point you are looking for a way out, but are not sure how to achieve it safely - am I correct?

Whatever decision you ultimately reach, the above article may help you sort out the right reasons for staying from the wrong ones.

I think that the space that you have put between you might be really good for two reasons:

One, you may be able to focus on your work better

Two, if she is serious about working on herself, she will follow through with the DBT and you may start seeing some lasting changes (would that make you want to stay in this relationship?)

This workshop may also be helpful in offering some balanced perspective:

Is there a healthful way to get past the pain of a broken heart?

I see what you are saying about therapists - it takes a good connection and a good therapist to feel comfortable... . You will see if it feels right to try to find one or not at this time... .

[Narellan]

It's truly a tough road. I'm trying to recover from similar devastation. I've started to make contact again with my family and I'm overcome with sadness that I put them through this. But on the plus side, it's healed my heart to a degree to speak words with my family from the heart, something I haven't done for years. My father emailed me about their unconditional love and support and how much joy I've brought to their lives. I'm so grateful I have been able to heal some damage I did at the hands of my ex BPD. I have to come to terms with the loss of my true best friend of 20 years ( my replacement now) and that has caused me so much grief. The devastation to my life so quickly from being involved with my ex BPD has been mind blowing. But on the plus side, I have learned who truly loves me and who doesn't. And I am a changed person for the better for having met my ex BPD. For that I have no regrets 

[Subotai]

Thank you for the links and suggestions, pessim-optimist. I am looking forward to working through them.

I've read parts of the PDF before and always the rational approach here aligns with my thinking, but my heart and soul don't quite want to accept it. There is this longing of lifting her out of her misery and the divine idea of giving oneself up for the betterment of and service to others. To walk away after having gone so far (marriage) seems selfish.

But yes, at this point I am looking for a way out in a way that I don't feel like I am losing my soul. If I teeter the other way I just look at some of the recent text messages: "I hope you die horribly", "Eternal damnation", "You have ignore me and pushed me away to your own folly. You are done and ruined." Some of these texts border on poetry.

I told her in our last T session that I want nothing more than her on my side living a harmonious life together. But I think her anger is so deeply rooted and her family environment continues to be so destructive that it won't take much time and the T and the DBT group will be judged and discarded. It's just a matter of time, I've seen it countless times now.

Narellan, I also have managed to start reconnecting with my sister and I hold a new understanding for the emotional suffering she went through many years ago in a difficult relationship of her own which I did not understand then. I hope that this understanding will bring us closer as well.

[pessim-optimist]

I've read parts of the PDF before and always the rational approach here aligns with my thinking, but my heart and soul don't quite want to accept it. There is this longing of lifting her out of her misery and the divine idea of giving oneself up for the betterment of and service to others. To walk away after having gone so far (marriage) seems selfish.

Is it sort of the "knight in shining armor" picture you have in your mind? There is a connection - people w/BPD are attracted to people with this trait... .

I also have managed to start reconnecting with my sister and I hold a new understanding for the emotional suffering she went through many years ago in a difficult relationship of her own which I did not understand then. I hope that this understanding will bring us closer as well.

That is wonderful news! - you may gain some very important insights, given that you and your sister have the same family of origin and perhaps some similar ways of dealing with close relationships... .

[Subotai]

Is it sort of the "knight in shining armor" picture you have in your mind? There is a connection - people w/BPD are attracted to people with this trait... .

I keep getting knots in my stomach just thinking about it. There you try so hard to stabilize her life and environment but the calmer it gets the wilder the self sabotage sets in and burns it all down. I still wake up with those damn panic attacks almost every morning.

In any case, the Knight in Shining Armor just filed the divorce papers thanks to the strength I gained coming to this forum.

[pessim-optimist]

That must be really stressful... .

I am glad that you feel a bit more yourself and a bit more confident now that you have gained a bit of distance and a bit more perspective because of it.

These relationships are complicated though. As you may know, your wife might up her efforts of getting you back, or try to make herself feel better by destroying your image in her own and others' minds. Knowing that can be an advantage as you will not be taken by surprise... . Forewarned is to be forearmed.

Taking it a day at a time, and keeping things in their proper perspective is a good plan for these situations... .

[DreamFlyer99]

hi Subotai! i'd like to add my welcome to pessim-optimist's!

I've recently been dealing with those same panic attacks, the somewhat less than a full blown feels-like-a-heart-attack kind, so I wanted to ask about how you're dealing with those. They're so very unpleasant! We do have some reading about panic attacks and how to survive them: What is a panic attack? How to deal with them.

I am able to breathe through mine, can you do that easily? One thing I learned from my T some years ago when I had them much worse was that they are actually only a few minutes long, it's just that they can keep coming. And of course once we've sensitized that part of our brain it flares up more quickly on the next one. And the way to handle them is to somehow give our executive brain a signal to come back online and be in charge again.

You've of course had your adrenalin shot to the sky with your wife's acting out, and it's wearing. What is good self-care for you? Exercise? A good soak in a tub? Your body is trying to tell you to take care of YOU right now. You can "caretake" your wife of course, but you can't save her from herself. Only she can do that, and the will needs to be there for her to do so and follow through.

Can you give yourself permission to concentrate on yourself for a while? Just tell yourself that it's okay, your body needs it, and taking some time to do that doesn't mean you are giving up on your wife, it just means you are replenishing yourself because you have been depleted from the stress. This will allow you to think more clearly.

I also found doing exercises with light hand weights where I would need to concentrate on the counting was very helpful to get myself breathing right when I had a panic attack.

all the best--

dreamflyer99

[Subotai]

These relationships are complicated though. As you may know, your wife might up her efforts of getting you back, or try to make herself feel better by destroying your image in her own and others' minds. Knowing that can be an advantage as you will not be taken by surprise... . Forewarned is to be forearmed.

It looks like my wife is past the stage of trying to get me back since she was served the divorce petition. You are right on with the suggestion she is trying to destroy my image in her mind. I get am getting very angry and inflammatory text messages. More to that below... .

I am able to breathe through mine, can you do that easily?

You've of course had your adrenalin shot to the sky with your wife's acting out, and it's wearing. What is good self-care for you?

Thank you for the link, DreamFlyer99. I especially love the singing in the car suggestion. Reading through this link I realize that I am definitely dealing more with a kind of 'hyper alertness'. Luckily I do not have the intense attacks that involve heart palpitations. I have only had those when I was faced with her rage directly and became afraid of my physical well being.

What I have now is long lasting adrenaline rushes and the uncomfortable responses in my digestive system. What's been working for me is fresh air, taking a walk around the building, long hikes on the weekend, simple distractions (recently 'House, MD' TV series) and Yin yoga.

And with that I come to the current stage of my drama.

I am going to a Yoga studio, the only one in my area that offers the combination of meditation and Yoga that really helps me. However it is the same place at which my UstbxBPDw got her Yoga teacher license and she plans on coming back there and asked me in a text not to go there myself. She threatened me with 'screaming in my face publicly how she feels about me' if she sees me there.

At first I agreed to avoid the place and then reconsidered as I hate to be bullied and it is the only place I can go to. After texting her my refusal I got a barrage of hate texts (btw. all this is illegal in context of the divorce petition requirements).

So I just blocked her phone number and continue to go to Yoga and plan to just let the storm blow over if she happens to be there and does decide to throw a fit. After all it's supposed to be a place of peace for all that matters.

If anyone has any good suggestion on how to deal with this, any ideas are appreciated.

[pessim-optimist]

I think that your decision to not let her bully you is an excellent one. A big victory for your self-respect.  

Most likely, she feels uneasy about seeing you there if she goes, so she wanted to manipulate/bully you into getting you out of the way... .

I speculate that she knows you would feel embarrassed if she created a scene (I may be wrong about this). However, the reality is that she would be hurting her own image and others' respect for her, if she actually does that. Just in case, I would get ready for it, so you can remain calm, and confident, and not let her draw you into an emotional exchange that you might later regret.

In general, I think that you could benefit from posting on the [L2] Undecided : Staying or Leaving board. It will help you step back to look at your options and understand how you really feel. Also, there are really good tools that are essential in dealing with our person w/BPD like creating and maintaining boundaries. One key process on that board is called "Choosing a Path" which may help you out along the way.

Feel free to check it out, ok?

[DreamFlyer99]

i agree with pessim-optimist about the standing up to being bullied! Yay for you!

i kind of doubt she would be welcome there if she started screaming at you, given the purpose of the yoga and meditation and all.

And i'm so glad you got something out of that link, and that you are so proactive about your self-care. You're doing a far better job than i am--so far i only have dreams about running, but i haven't actually done that.

Also what pessim-optimist said about the "choosing a path" process, that's really valuable and might be a good tool for you. It really helps a person think through the total picture.

df99

[Subotai]

Thank you pessim-optimist and DreamFlyer99! It sure was a great victory for my self-respect. The same night she had threatened me, shortly after I made the last post, I went to the yoga school for a great class and I was very proud of myself for not backing down.

I've been doing yoga there almost every day since and have not run into her. Blocking the phone has reduced the anxiety quite a bit. I start to have more moments now where the depression lifts and I start to feel better.

Thank you for the reference to 'Choosing A Path'. I must say I have done so already and I am determined to never speak to her or contact her again.

I love her deeply and always will. I like this particular board since it requires an account and I feel a bit safer posting details.

But when I am not here you will find me on the 'Leaving: Detaching from the Wounds of a failed BPD Relationship' board. No more recycling !

[DreamFlyer99]

hi Subotai--

Great job on doing yoga every day! Wow. That should go a loong way toward keeping yourself mentally and physically healthy.

One of my biggest problems was that I would back down from my husband when he would bully, bad bad boundaries. So I finally had to take a break from the marriage and am staying with one of our daughters for now. So it sounds like you have taken the bigger step of serving divorce papers, is that right? Has she responded or signed or whatever happens next with that?

[Subotai]

My UstbxBPDw has always been very controlling and had bullying behaviors and I often submitted to them just to keep the peace, so I understand your actions well Dreamflyer. Doing that and the constant walking on egg-shells has thoroughly destroyed my self-respect and also my connection to who I am, what I want and how I want to live.

So, yes, I filed a divorce petition and she has three weeks to respond. If she doesn't, and I don't believe she will, the divorce should be granted as requested. Since we have no kids nor common assets there really is nothing to contest.

I know the troubles when you have children, I have seen it for all these years between her and her ex-husband. The guy is counting the days until their kids are adults and he no longer has to deal with her in any way. I know in that regard I was able to leave a mark and defuse a lot of the drama that was going on between her and him while we were together.

Sounds like your daughter is an adult and not living at home. I hope you can find the right boundaries with him.

Btw. regarding this forum I noticed there are ways I can link to my introductory post and such for others in my profile, but it looks like I can't actually look at anyone else's profile so i can't click on anything to read your back story for example ?

[DreamFlyer99]

Hmmm... . I wonder if it's one of those things that happens after you post so many times, then the world of The Profile Backstory magically appears!   I don't honestly know.

All our children are grown, 3 daughters who are married, 2 with 3 children each and the one i'm staying with has no children, just lots of animals! Our youngest, a son, is still at home with his dad though he's a young adult. I have been married for 37 years (crazy long time!) but just tried to cope for much of that since I love him and all that, plus my family of origin was pretty chaotic so somehow I didn't recognize that I shouldn't let someone treat me the way he does. We've had calmer "seasons" when everybody was young and we were busy, but things seemed to get worse as we were home with just our youngest. In the past few years I finally started talking about my marriage with my therapist and she helped me take a more realistic look at my life and my marriage. Of course when I started trying to have better boundaries about how he could treat me or talk to me things just got worse. They finally came to a head in February, and when I felt too unsafe to be there I started my time-out. I don't know how long that might be, at least he's in counseling weekly and learning about himself. He's not diagnosed with BPD but sure fits the book of Stop Walking on Eggshells (so did my mother!) So far he hasn't hit a point of awareness of how his actions impacted me, and he's still flailing about for me to take on a bunch of blame, and hurt by the fact that I was hurt by how he treated me. Till that changes I don't plan on returning.

My life in a nutshell!

[Subotai]

You are correct, the backstories have magically appeared. I guess the magic number of posts is 10! 

I hope you can work it out with your hubby. You sure are in a very different situation than I am. A relationship based on so many years of familiarity is worth fighting for tooth and nail. It's great he is in counseling. Maybe you might also want to look into meditation or other alternative ways of reconnecting with the moment and emotions.

Therapy would often increase my mental carousel and roller coaster. Trying to slow the thinking and increase the awareness of how I feel underneath all the rationalizations is really helping me a lot more. Yoga or Tai Chi or similar.

Last night I went to a Bhakti Yoga class and they were singing and chanting, I felt like I was at some '70s hippie gathering, and I walked out with a big smile on my face.

Of course I came home to find a couple of hate emails from the x but I was able to move past them without too much pain. I do wonder what the intention is in contacting me with such anger and accusations. It seems the act of contacting me in itself is led by the hope of reconnecting but the expressed anger only causes suffering for her and I. It sure is not a path to healing.

[pessim-optimist]

I am also happy for you that you are finding your peace now,

I do wonder what the intention is in contacting me with such anger and accusations. It seems the act of contacting me in itself is led by the hope of reconnecting but the expressed anger only causes suffering for her and I. It sure is not a path to healing.

Mainly two things: she's in pain, by e-mailing that and projecting it on you, she makes herself feel better. Also, hoping to engage you in a verbal battle - negative interaction/attention is better than being ignored. Possibly even wanting you back, but that's a bigger question... .

[Subotai]

Mainly two things: she's in pain, by e-mailing that and projecting it on you, she makes herself feel better. Also, hoping to engage you in a verbal battle - negative interaction/attention is better than being ignored. Possibly even wanting you back, but that's a bigger question... .

Yes, I understand, that makes sense. From the perspective of her suffering it's a tool to get past the intense emotions inside of her. But in the real world it causes nothing but destruction. It perfectly sums up what drives the seemingly irrational behavior of a BPD person in general and how it affects actual reality. I am so glad I'm no longer in this. The FOG is lifting a little more every day.

[pessim-optimist]

Yes, I understand, that makes sense. From the perspective of her suffering it's a tool to get past the intense emotions inside of her. But in the real world it causes nothing but destruction. It perfectly sums up what drives the seemingly irrational behavior of a BPD person in general and how it affects actual reality.

You are absolutely right. That's why pwBPD generally can't keep friends/relationships; they self-sabotage with their dysfunctional coping mechanisms like the one above... .

It's good that you are starting to feel better. 

[DreamFlyer99]

Subotai, you said

I felt like I was at some '70s hippie gathering

Hey! I resemble that remark! My college days, oh so fleeting... .

Glad you found the Magic 10. Now we know! And yes, my T is often reminding me of "mindfulness"... . I need to take a better look at that.

My H does what pessim-optimist says about projecting their pain, and it sure has caused me pain! I need to figure out how to unhook from that train.