He doesn't want to be with me but he doesn't want me dating anyone else...

[Emelie Emelie]

I've been thinking about this tonight.  My exBF ended it with me twice.  After the first break up I started dating relatively quickly (not the best idea but that's another story).  He was furious with me.  I said hey... . you ended this... . not me.  Well I was being disrespectful to him and our relationship by dating so soon.  It made him nuts.  For months.  He would rage at me about it all the time.  "Accuse me."  Well until we got back together actually.  I guess I assumed it was because he regretted the break up. 

I had a conversation with him this weekend (about six weeks post break up) in which he initially got pissy because I didn't answer his call right away... . said I forgot it was your "date night".  He later said I don't want to talk to you because I don't want to know what you're doing or who you're doing it with.  On some level I get that... . I don't want to know if he's seeing someone else either.  But he broke up with me.  Again.  So why is this such an issue with him?  Why does he act like I'm betraying him?

[cosmonaut]

This is  BPD.   :'(  It doesn't make rational sense.  It is the result of a person endlessly tossed back and forth between their fears of abandonment and engulfment, depending on the emotions of the hour.  It's a tragic disorder, and it causes so much suffering for everyone - especially our exes.  It's very sad and it hurts terribly.

I don't have any better way to understand it.  Maybe others here can give you better insight.  In the end, however, we just have to accept that it is the result of serious mental illness.

Edit:  I should add that knowing all this doesn't make it any easier emotionally for us.  It still sucks!

[trappedinlove]

The textbook answer would be that he broke up with you since you got too close and it triggered his abandonment anxiety.

So if he still feels close to you its understandable why he would feel betrayed by you dating others.

It doesn't seem he's split you black though, has he?

TIL

[Emelie Emelie]

No... . I thought he had completely split me black but forever but apparently he hasn't.  And I'm very grateful for that.  I hated the way it ended.  I still love and care for him a great deal.   We actually had a nice conversation considering.

This part has just been nagging at me.  As I said... . I don't want to know (I really, really, really don't want to know) if he's involved with someone else.  In that sense I understand it.  But he did the "rejecting".  Yet he's the one who feels betrayed if I "move on".  Last time around if I didn't respond to a text of his or something immediately he would "accuse" me of being on a date.  If I said no, I'm working or whatever he would "accuse" me of lying.  It was nuts.  I said why on earth would I lie to you about it?  I'm certainly free to date whomever I choose.  Then again... . I remember him telling me about breaking up with a woman he had dated for six years.  She finally gave him a marriage ultimatum and he said no.  The next day he stopped by her house to "see how she was doing" and she had another guy there.  He told me this story several times.  In terms of "what she did to him".  What a painful experience it was for him.  At one point I said to him she had waited for you for six years.  You told her you were never going to marry her.  I'm sure she was devastated.  So maybe she went out and picked up some guy or whatever... . but it certainly wasn't a betrayal of you.  He couldn't hear that.  He said oh if she did it once she had probably done it while they were dating.  He got angry at me for suggesting his feelings about it weren't valid. 

I do understand that his insecurities and abandonment fears were part of what triggered the break up.  And I understand that he was angry at me for that.  If I were "meeting his needs" he wouldn't feel that way.  Well... . I understand it and I don't.  He made a clear choice to be with someone else.  To "seek another relationship" as he put it.  I also understand he can't regulate his emotions.  So if something "comes up" for him he can't really take a step back and look at it rationally.  I get that he may not like it... . but to act as if I'm betraying him in some way?  I guess I'm trying to make sense of something nonsensical.  It's just tough.  I'm sitting here feeling so rejected and discarded, missing him terribly, hurting like hell, while he's out "seeking another relationship" and yet... .

[Eric1]

Mine raged at me when she found out I was seeing someone that she vaguely knew! Said that it would ruin everything & any possibility of us getting back together. I retorted that she was now with someone and shouldn't care who I'm with.

[patientandclear]

Emelie Emelie Emelie Emelie 

I think this one is pretty clear.  You did it.  You left him.  He did not leave you.

Sure he "broke up with you."  But he did it because you'd told him you were "done" when he was treating you poorly (per earlier posts).

The end was around the corner, you were going to end it (the merits of your position are irrelevant to this -- you were going to end it, or so you said and so he heard) and therefore HE was going to end it.

And he did.

And you made him.

And thus, you did it.

And now have the gall to pour salt on the wounds by going out & dating.  (Not that you are.  But he assumes you are, and you did last time, so not an unreasonable thought on his part.)

Therefore it makes perfect sense for him to be jealous after you not only forced him to break up with and lose you, and then on top of that you don't answer the phone.

I really, really do believe that in his mind, you ended it this time.

[Emelie Emelie]

Dear P&C 

I don't know anymore.  Maybe you're right.  However... . LAST time he did end it.  He was very clear about that.  And I still had the same reaction from him.  As did the six year woman.  Of course irrational jealousy was always part of the equation.  This is just more irrational jealousy. 

I'm not even sure why it bothers me.  Why I get defensive.  Why I feel I'm doing something "wrong".  Even when I'm not.  (Dating or doing something wrong.)  I guess that's the bigger question.  Because it hurts him?  That's probably part of it.  Maybe because in his eyes everything I do is wrong?  And I'm still trying to prove to him that I'm "good"?  Because I still feel like I just can't win with him?  Because I feel guilty about everything I did "wrong" in the rs that led to this?  Hmmm... . may be touching on something with that last one.

Need to stop thinking about this and go to sleep. 

[trappedinlove]

I'm not even sure why it bothers me.  Why I get defensive.  Why I feel I'm doing something "wrong".  Even when I'm not.  (Dating or doing something wrong.)  I guess that's the bigger question.  Because it hurts him?  That's probably part of it.  Maybe because in his eyes everything I do is wrong?  And I'm still trying to prove to him that I'm "good"?  Because I still feel like I just can't win with him?  Because I feel guilty about everything I did "wrong" in the rs that led to this?  Hmmm... . may be touching on something with that last one.

Need to stop thinking about this and go to sleep. 

Emelie, I think you've hit the nail on the head. That should be your focus.

For me, besides feeling emotionally closed, I felt like I'm cheating on her when I was with someone else. For absolutely no reason.

I also felt jealous of others she's dating, again for no rational reason.

I have to deal with both issues that are in my mind and hopefully under my control.

We're both free to date and get into new relationships with whomever we choose. Entitled to love and happiness. And I need to live up to these words. The only problem is to convince my emotions to follow my rational thinking 

[rougeetnoir]

Dear P&C 

I'm not even sure why it bothers me.  Why I get defensive.  Why I feel I'm doing something "wrong".  Even when I'm not.  (Dating or doing something wrong.)  I guess that's the bigger question.  Because it hurts him?  That's probably part of it.  Maybe because in his eyes everything I do is wrong?  And I'm still trying to prove to him that I'm "good"?  Because I still feel like I just can't win with him?  Because I feel guilty about everything I did "wrong" in the rs that led to this?  Hmmm... . may be touching on something with that last one.

One of the things that bugs me regarding my breakup, is that everything seems very clear on the outside (she abused you, you leave), but on the inside I spent time trying to rationalize her behavior in my head (even if her excuses were contradictory and non-sensical: well the boy wasn't there at the time, it wasn't bad, if you wouldn't make me mad, etc.).  It seems to me that you know what is going on here-- you are falling into the patterns of the relationship that kept you around: The manipulations, the guilt (the FOG) that he used to suck you back in or to keep you around. 

This is one of the big things about BPD.  They need us around, but also know they don't have the skills to do so, so they condition us to keep us around-- some of us might be more susceptible to these manipulations (FOO) and some might respond worse-- but even relatively heathy people can be manipulated/conditioned by these things. We build up a habit in response to it (rationalizing or walking on eggshells, etc) and the challenge is to now recognize it as a manipulation and attempt to move on.  One thing I've read is to write a list of all the "voices" in your head (the "nice" voice, the harsh voice, your mother's voice, the "you're never good enough voice", etc)-- clearly your list will include his voice.  Start recognizing his voice and start refuting it... . As simple as "I don't agree" or "that doesn't make sense."  Don't ruminate on his voice, don't try to make sense of it, just dismiss it and move on.

[MrFox]

One of the things that has helped me understand (as much as can really be understood) about the behavior of pwBPD is to break it down to the level of small children.

Think of you ex as a small child.  He has a toy.  At one point it was the greatest toy in the world to him.  He loved it, played with it, slept with it at night.  Then one day, something happened.  Maybe while playing with the toy he dropped it on his foot, the toy hurt him.  Or he was running while holding on to the toy and tripped, it was the toy's fault.  Or maybe, he got a brand new toy.

Whatever the reason, that old, once greatest toy in the world, is placed on a shelf in his closet.  He doesn't want to play with it anymore, but he also doesn't want anyone else to have it.  It's his.  He wants to know that should he ever decide to go into his closet and get the toy, it will be there for him.

My own ex (9 months out) was married three and a half months after we broke up, yet I hear from mutual acquaintances she still continually seeks out information about me, particularly my relationship status.  She broke up with me, she moved in with another man, she married him, yet she still feels that she has the right to know what is going on in my life and if I am with someone else. 

[Mutt]

Think of you ex as a small child.  He has a toy.  At one point it was the greatest toy in the world to him.  He loved it, played with it, slept with it at night.  Then one day, something happened.  Maybe while playing with the toy he dropped it on his foot, the toy hurt him.  Or he was running while holding on to the toy and tripped, it was the toy's fault.  Or maybe, he got a brand new toy.

Whatever the reason, that old, once greatest toy in the world, is placed on a shelf in his closet.  He doesn't want to play with it anymore, but he also doesn't want anyone else to have it.  It's his.  He wants to know that should he ever decide to go into his closet and get the toy, it will be there for him.

Thanks MrFox. Excellent analogy 

[MrFox]

Thank you very much, Mutt

[Emelie Emelie]

Ugh.  Your analogy, Mr. Fox, makes me mad.  He does not get to put me in his closet in case he gets bored with or breaks one of his new toys. 

Then again I'm not really sure that's what he's doing.  If that were the case I'd feel like he was stringing me along... . maintaining contact and he's really doing the opposite.  He doesn't want contact  because it "hurts". 

I've been reading these responses and coming to the conclusion that even though he wanted to end the relationship... . he still hurts.  He still misses me.  It's as simple as that.  I'm not "meeting his needs" but it's still hard to let go.  He's actually in the same spot I am... . He's not meeting my needs  (you know, to be loved, valued, not devalued, verbally abused) but it still hurts to let go.  (And he hasn't found a replacement yet.)  He's just better at compartmentalizing it than I am. 

[MrFox]

Ugh.  Your analogy, Mr. Fox, makes me mad.  He does not get to put me in his closet in case he gets bored with or breaks one of his new toys. 

It should make you mad.  He is not treating you with respect or caring about your boundaries.