Do I need to let go of this?

[maxsterling]

Last Friday she wanted to have a conversation yet again about marriage and babies.  This a day after our couples therapy session where I thought I laid down my concerns and boundaries about this issue in a way I thought she understood. My concerns being that I still want marriage and children with her, but right now I am having difficulty with her violent and self harming behavior.   During the session, she of course got defensive, but then calmed and I thought it got though to her.   

Her trigger last Friday was that she saw a pregnant woman.  Yep, that's all it took for her to immediately call me up while at work (actually taking a co-worker out to lunch for her birthday).  I told her that I was at work and out to lunch, and could not have that conversation with her then, and that we could discuss it further when I got home.  She of course accused me of not caring about her emotions, but I didn't waiver.

When I got home, she quickly brought up that I said we would talk about it.  I said "after dinner".  So we ate, and then afterwards I sat down on the sofa to discuss with her.  I'm sure you can guess where this went before I even tell you.  I want to have a rational and cooperative discussion about these issues with her.  But every time it ends in the same way, and this time was no different.  She has this empty emotional pit that she needs filled, and there is nothing I can say or do to fill that pit because the pit was created from her own baggage and shame. She screamed at me, accused me of controlling her and everything in the relationship, threatened me that she was going to leave, and screamed some more until I completely shut down and started crying and said "please quit screaming at me!  It hurts!"  She momentarily stopped screaming, and a few minutes later I tried to get out of the conversation, but she got back on it, so I said I was going to go out for the evening on a walk.  She then started screaming some more, and as I was putting my shoes on, she screamed F-you and that she hates me, then started crying uncontrollably and making statements about killing herself. I wound up staying with her and not leaving, saying that if she quit screaming I would stay.  She then was mostly numb, and then started talking about her internal shame and then the reason she was so upset was clear to me - but still nothing I could do about it. 

So - I can accept that this is her issue to work through and has nothing to do with me.  I can accept she has a right to be upset and confused and concerned.  I actually strongly empathize with her, it's just the laws of love and relationships work differently in her universe than they do in mine.  My issue now is that I still feel very hurt by her words, and even thought I still feel love for her, I also feel scared of her.  I feel scared that she will flip again, scream at me again, and I will reach a point of no return.  But what hurts worse I think is that a week has gone by with no apology.  Not that I have asked for one, because something about having to ask for an apology seems to taint the apology.

Today is another session at the couples counselor.  Is this something I should bring up - that I still feel hurt over the things she said last Friday, or at this point do I need to let it go knowing she is who she is? 

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[Mono No Aware]

... . or at this point do I need to let it go knowing she is who she is? 

Yep.

Radical Acceptance, my friend. It's really hard.

You've now lived through a classic example of The Flip, where you thought just because she was so logical and grounded on a subject in the presence of the counselor that she would be consistently logical and grounded on that subject alone with you. But look back, and you can see that from that one lunch phone call onwards her dysregulation was rising and the ___-storm was a-brewin'.

When your pwBPD begins to lean towards dysregulation, you have very little hope of him/her being logical and grounded and zero once they hit full rage mode. You need to scramble all your SET-UP while at the same time making very sure to not JADE because every little thing you say is fertile ground for escalation of emotional hostilities. Rational discussion is off the menu at this point, it's time to eat some pre-emptive nuclear strikes from your loved one.

In this case, it went all wrong. BTDT, many times. The dysregulation drives the pwBPD to zero in on the things that anger and hurt us and use them to cut deep, as the disorder seeks to sabotage the relationship who's intimacy triggers deep-seated and irrational fears of abandonment. This is the heart of Borderline Personality Disorder, and this is what you must Radically Accept.

[Grey Kitty]

I think it is time for you to find a different way to respond to questions about marriage and children.

Your answer of "Not now, but I want to" doesn't seem to work for her. (And some female members here did think she had a point there.) "Not while you are this crazy" (paraphrased) has to be even worse for her.

Can you come up with a better answer? By 'better' I mean one that is more clear and concrete, which will help her understand when and why your "no" will become a "yes." To start thinking about it, consider these: "After we've gone (time period) with no verbal abuse." Or "Ask me after we've gone (time period) with no verbal abuse."

Her response of raging at you doesn't work for you.

I think you are letting her rage and abuse go too far when she wants to "talk" about it.

She has this empty emotional pit that she needs filled, and there is nothing I can say or do to fill that pit because the pit was created from her own baggage and shame. She screamed at me, accused me of controlling her and everything in the relationship, threatened me that she was going to leave, and screamed some more until I completely shut down and started crying and said "please quit screaming at me!  It hurts!"

You stayed in this waaaay to long already. When she starts screaming, or starts accusing you of controlling her, it is time to disengage.

... . started crying uncontrollably and making statements about killing herself.

That is tough to handle. There have been times where I said that if she couldn't control herself (with self-injury or suicidal thoughts) I would call 9-1-1. A couple times I had the numbers in my phone ready to hit "send".

I want to have a rational and cooperative discussion about these issues with her.

Just because you WANT this doesn't mean she is capable of it. Yesterday she obviously wasn't. Doesn't matter how much you want it. As Mono No Aware said, Radical Acceptance, my friend.

[123Phoebe]

Hi maxsterling,

There's so much to the interaction you've shared with us, I don't even know where to begin.  It's yucky being drawn into something so highly emotional that our emotions go haywire also.  She wants to get married and have a baby, a family.  It's the way it goes and every minute that goes by is another minute that she doesn't have what she desires.  All while you're taking a female coworker out for her birthday, telling the woman who so badly wants to start a family with you that we'll discuss this later... .   ... . After dinner... .  ... . Okay, now you're ready to discuss this rationally... .

She wants a baby and a family!  NOW!

Later.

NOW!

After dinner... .

F***ING NOW!

I think you'll be waiting on that apology for a long time

Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're wrong for not wanting to start a family; whatever you want and decide is your prerogative.  She wants one though and this is a highly emotional issue for a lot of people.

Knowing how intensely she feels about this, not necessarily what she says, but what and how she feels... .  And knowing that it's going to be a doozie of a conversation... .  Could you have not answered the phone to begin with when you were celebrating your female coworker's b-day?  Just not even go there right then?

[formflier]

Today is another session at the couples counselor.  Is this something I should bring up - that I still feel hurt over the things she said last Friday, or at this point do I need to let it go knowing she is who she is? 

OK... . so I'm thinking that if it matters to you... . you should bring it up.  It sounds like it matters.  The other suggestions in here about we can talk about it after xx time period of no verbal abuse... . I like that.

Temper your expectations of change or her reaction... . but if you can't bring up what matters to you in MC... . why go?

Do you record things?  I can see someone like that denying they were going to kill themselves... . it's not so much for them... but for the medical professionals that may care for her.

That's a scary line to mess with.  In the Navy we had zero tolerance... . off  you went to medical.  I am very lucky this self harm or threat of harm is something I have not had to deal with.