Questions

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I slowlly get the whole picture by reading posts here.

Can you imagine that the last time I saw my ex we kissed for goodbye. Since then I was devaluated especially when she found a new guy 3 days after last kiss.

My questions are:

- is it normal that they find someone else so quickly

- is it normal that only after very, very short period they claim they found the love of their life and at the same time say that you did everything wrong, that you are to be blamed for r/s to breake up

- is it normal that they forget you and you mean nothing to them almost literally over night (that is the hardest part to understand)

- is it normal that after break up they "teach" you how you should handle them when you were together

- is it normal that they won't give you closure. When I asked for closure she said the she already said everything to me (though I really didn't get any proper closure)

- is it normal that they set the rules of contacts. She said she will decide when we will speak

- how long can they pretend? I spotted something was wrong after a month.

- why can't they accept responsibility or even slightest critisism

- is it normal that they like stuff with a new guy but with you they were strictly against the same stuff (like spending vacations, talking,... . )

- are they all emotionally shallow

Thanx

[Octavianues]

I slowlly get the whole picture by reading posts here.

Can you imagine that the last time I saw my ex we kissed for goodbye. Since then I was devaluated especially when she found a new guy 3 days after last kiss.

My questions are:

- is it normal that they find someone else so quickly

- is it normal that only after very, very short period they claim they found the love of their life and at the same time say that you did everything wrong, that you are to be blamed for r/s to breake up

- is it normal that they forget you and you mean nothing to them almost literally over night (that is the hardest part to understand)

- is it normal that after break up they "teach" you how you should handle them when you were together

- is it normal that they won't give you closure. When I asked for closure she said the she already said everything to me (though I really didn't get any proper closure)

- is it normal that they set the rules of contacts. She said she will decide when we will speak

- how long can they pretend? I spotted something was wrong after a month.

- why can't they accept responsibility or even slightest critisism

- is it normal that they like stuff with a new guy but with you they were strictly against the same stuff (like spending vacations, talking,... . )

- are they all emotionally shallow

Thanx

[enlighten me]

The simple answer is yes to all of the above.

[willbegood]

- is it normal that they find someone else so quickly

Yes, they don't like being alone and need to find someone to make them feel good again as quickly as possible. Many times there's somebody already waiting in the wings.

- is it normal that only after very, very short period they claim they found the love of their life and at the same time say that you did everything wrong, that you are to be blamed for r/s to breake up

Yes, they live to be in the honeymoon phase of a r/s. They take blame for nothing so of course everything is your fault and you're to blame.

- is it normal that they forget you and you mean nothing to them almost literally over night (that is the hardest part to understand)

Yes/No, They don't forget and when they get lonely they certainly remember you (recycling). Because they live for the honeymoon phase they certainly act like we mean nothing to them. Mine met a guy when I went to the men's room at the bar. She drove me home and returned to the bar with him. So sometimes not even overnight

- is it normal that after break up they "teach" you how you should handle them when you were together

Mine didn't do this.

- is it normal that they won't give you closure. When I asked for closure she said the she already said everything to me (though I really didn't get any proper closure)

Yes, if they gave us closure there'd probably be no need for this forum. Most of the stuff in their head is made up anyway so if they did try to explain what happened it probably wouldn't make any sense anyway.

- is it normal that they set the rules of contacts. She said she will decide when we will speak

Yes, almost everyone on here has been blacklisted at least once if not several times. They live in fear. Easiest thing to do is shut down and run away so we can't hurt them anymore.

- how long can they pretend? I spotted something was wrong after a month.

They're not pretending. This is the world they live in. Seems wacky to us but to them it's completely normal and way of life.

- why can't they accept responsibility or even slightest critisism

Probably because of the fear component they deal with.

- is it normal that they like stuff with a new guy but with you they were strictly against the same stuff (like spending vacations, talking,... . )

They are chameleons. When they're in the honeymoon phase they will change to make their partner happy. That's why we fall so hard for them and then a split second later they're gone with no closure.

- are they all emotionally shallow

I think on the outside they appear to be. On the inside I think it's complete emotion.

[Mutt]

• They usually don't leave one attachment for another until the other person is ready, they absolutely fear being alone. Fear of engulfment / fear of abandonment.
  
  
• You are describing splitting. They have difficulty seeing the grey area and will idealize and devalue and nothing in between and they may cycle through this a few times a day. It's confusing to us because you are overvalued and inexplicably undervalued and you're not sure why.
  
  
• If you are split black, they see nothing but negative qualities in you and have difficulties with remembering the past and live in the present or in the moment.
  
  
• They shift the blame and project their actions, dysfunctions and negative emotions on you.
  
  
• Yes. They move quickly and adapt differently than you or I. We need closure and unfortunately we have to give ourselves closure. It's painful, I'm sorry.
  
  
• Your ex sounds like she in the BPD Queen role. Do not let the Queen have control. You can only control yourself and no one else.
  
  
• Red flags are there from the beginning. Often we overlook or ignore them and are too much into the idealization.
  
  
• It's a defense mechanism to protect their core abandonment wound and project and blame others for the way that they feel about themselves. It has nothing to do with you. They are relieving pain from the past and transferring it to the here and now.
  
  
• Mirroring. They are mirroring the other persons personality because they lack a sense of self.
  
  
• They are emotionally stuck at the level of young child in an adults body, yes.

[BacknthSaddle]

I have little to add to the insights here other than to note that we often ask these questions because we are still trying to fit personality disordered people into a non-personality disordered frame.  As our understanding of the disorder evolves, rather than think "how could they do this?" we start thinking "how could they do anything else?"

Spend some time thinking about lacking a sense of self/mirroring in particular.  A lot of the issues make more sense in this context.

[enlighten me]

Spend some time thinking about lacking a sense of self/mirroring in particular. 

I was thinking that if I had 1 question that my ex had to answer honestly then it would be "Who are you?"

If she could answer that then it would explain a lot.

I don't think that she could though as I doubt she knows who she is.

[Alex86]

I was thinking that if I had 1 question that my ex had to answer honestly then it would be "Who are you?"

I believe this would be the most catastrophic question for her. I think if I were her I would have a bad anger after that.

[enlighten me]

Just hypothetical. I would never ask it as it would lead to a melt down. But if you could get the answer it would explain so much.

[Caredverymuch]

Just hypothetical. I would never ask it as it would lead to a melt down. But if you could get the answer it would explain so much.

The answer would be, whomever the person next to me needs me to be. They have no sense of self. They evaluate their supply source for what that person needs in a mate and become that " "perfect, dream come true" mate,  uncovering core wounds in their supply source and needs that were perhaps never met in any other. They mirror in attempt to gain control and of course there were red flags along the way. They assess everything about you in the beginning. They are very in tune to reading people, facial gestures, etc before a word is often said. They likely lived with a borderline parent who''s rages were as unpredictable as theirs now are. They had to know what that parent was thinking or read changing moods so they could mirror back for attempted and never received unconditional love. But we are not disordered, so who in the world knew this was a dysfunctional, repetitive way of (a very unfulfilling) life.

[Mutt]

The answer would be, whomever the person next to me needs me to be. They have no sense of self. They evaluate their supply source for what that person needs in a mate and become that " "perfect, dream come true" mate,  uncovering core wounds in their supply source and needs that were perhaps never met in any other. They mirror in attempt to gain control and of course there were red flags along the way.

My ex is impulsive. Emotional arrested development. I didn't know that she was mentally ill at the time with borderline personality disorder and I uttered words that you should never say to someone that fears abandonment "I want a divorce" It triggered her fear of abandonment and she attached herself to the first person that lacked boundaries and has his own issues. I don't think she assessed the situation and the replacement is far from perfect. She is narcissistic and lacks the self awareness to make a decision that is not based on emotions or wise mind. I don't believe she was out looking for a source but she was looking for a new attachment for her to cope and to mirror the other persons sense of self. It was motivated on her survival but not in the context of trying to gain control of the replacement. His lack of boundaries and FOO issues belong to him because there were many  for him.

[OutOfEgypt]

You asked:

- is it normal that they find someone else so quickly

Ans:  Yes.  They usually have someone else already being groomed.

- - is it normal that only after very, very short period they claim they found the love of their life and at the same time say that you did everything wrong, that you are to be blamed for r/s to breake up

And:  The time between phases varies from person to person.  Have you read this article?

https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

- is it normal that they forget you and you mean nothing to them almost literally over night (that is the hardest part to understand)

Yup.  My ex wife once claimed to have "grieved" me in one night after I told her I was done putting up with the awful things she was putting me through.  But I always noticed that for someone who claimed to love me so much, she seemed be able to stride right through things when it came to her leaving me.  When the shoe was on the other foot, however (me leaving her), she would fall apart and cry and throw fits.

- is it normal that after break up they "teach" you how you should handle them when you were together

Oh yes.  She made she I knew how that the last guy she cheated on me with during our marriage was so much better at handling her -thus, in her mind, proving that the problem was me.  They *need* you to believe that the problem is you.  They cannot, at any cost, face their own shame and guilt.

- is it normal that they won't give you closure. When I asked for closure she said the she already said everything to me (though I really didn't get any proper closure)

Yes.  They don't want you to have closure.  They either cut you off (as some have reported), never to talk to you again.  But in my experience my ex always wants to know that I'm there... . no matter how many guys down the road she is.  They will do things *just to know* that they still have power over you.  The fact that you ever want the closure so badly is something she will use to keep control over you -keeping you "on the hook" for whenever she decides she wants something from you, even if that "something" is just knowing that she has you emotionally by the B@LL$.

- is it normal that they set the rules of contacts. She said she will decide when we will speak

They demand to control the entire relationship.  They set the terms for everything.  Once the initial infatuation phase is over, it turns into a one-way relationship where they set the rules for everything.

- how long can they pretend? I spotted something was wrong after a month.

No way I can answer that.  It depends on the person.

- why can't they accept responsibility or even slightest critisism

They cannot face their true selves because of a lot of guilt and shame.  This is why they demand control of relationships.  This is why they lie about the absolutely awful things they do.  This is why they constantly need attention.  This is why they find a victim who they can blame and put down and destroy -anything to avoid that sense of shame and guilt inside.  Asking them to look in the mirror is like asking someone to stare directly into the sun.

- is it normal that they like stuff with a new guy but with you they were strictly against the same stuff (like spending vacations, talking,... . )

Sure.  They can be chameleons in many ways.  My ex has started smoking again.  No shock to me.  She's also suddenly a super-Christian again, though for years I had to take the kids to church by myself.

- are they all emotionally shallow

If by "emotionally shallow" you mean not really in touch with who they really are and instead of being able to have real, sustainable, trusting, close emotional relationships, they settle for drama, controlling people, manipulation, lying, blaming, whoring for attention, but luring people in with emotionalism, charisma, and a slightly-vulernable looking coyness (like they perpetually live in Junior High School), then yes.

[Octavianues]

Another questions,

- do they normally talk bad about their exes? My ex trash-talked about her ex before me. Same old... bla bla, bla, how he was lazy, did nothing, etc. Now probably I'm the one she trash-talks with her new love of her life

- do they normally don't believe you when in r/s that you care, love them. i was always confonted that she doesn't  believe me that I loved her explaining that my actions did not follow my words. No matter what I did, I couldn't prove my love.

-is it normal for them to call/text you non stop when you're seperated? On a day we couldn't be together she called me almost every hour. If I didn't respond she would say I'm not there for here when she needs me. At the end I was completely nervous and took my cell even to the toilet in case she would call me:).

- I wasn't able to go out with my friends alone and socialize alone with them. Either she would want to come with (when I took her to my best friend for the first time to celebrate my best friend son's 1th birthday, she got completely drunk so I had to carry her into my car). Later I started to neglect my friends. So were you also slowly taken away from your friends?

-At the end I almost never talked via cell with my friends when she was around, because she would listen to conversation and would comment them to be stupid. Especially she found stupid my questions. So do they intefere in every aspect of your life?

- do they normally forbid certain things? I wasn't allowed to talk about the weather. I wasn't allow to wear certain clothes when I was with her.

-do they normally acuse "loved" ones being selfish? She would always tell me I was selfish.

- do they normally tell you they want the best for you but "these best things" were not something you would consider good for you?

- do they always tell you that you will never find a girl so patient as her? Commenting the she is the only one who is so stupid to put up with you?


And finally: 3 months ago I suggested that she and I would write down 5 suggestions (each sepparately) what each of us should/could change (she at herself and me at myself). Immediately I lowered the number of suggestions for her to 3 things. I easily managed to write down all 5 suggestions, she couldn't write down even 1.

Thanks.

[mywifecrazy]

- are they all emotionally shallow

If by "emotionally shallow" you mean not really in touch with who they really are and instead of being able to have real, sustainable, trusting, close emotional relationships, they settle for drama, controlling people, manipulation, lying, blaming, whoring for attention, but luring people in with emotionalism, charisma, and a slightly-vulernable looking coyness (like they perpetually live in Junior High School), then yes.[/quote]
LMFAO Thanks for the Chuckle OOE! 

[OutOfEgypt]

haha, mywifecrazy

But is it not TOTALLY ACCURATE?  SAD!

[enlighten me]

Once again its a yes to all the questions apart from her telling me I couldn't do better. I don't think I had quite been beaten down enough for her to use that one.

As for the exs her ex husband was evil in her eyes. The others were all bad people but she used their qualities as a weapon. He was such a talented musician ( she said he battered her and kept her locked up) He was so rich ( he womanised and refused monogamy) He was so tender ( he was an achoholic)

I think the last person is always painted black until the new one has disillusioned them. Then you switch between black and white depending on her mood. I would love to know what my 2 sides are according to her.

[mywifecrazy]

haha, mywifecrazy

But is it not TOTALLY ACCURATE?  SAD!

Totally Accurate!

My 14 year old son is more mature than my uBPDxw. It's weird I remember once she was telling me how his 13yr old friend thought she was hot (my son told her). It was like she was getting OFF on it. It's freaky when I look back on it. So needy that she got validation from a 13 Yr old

Makes you wonder if these female teachers that end up seducing young boys aren't all pwBPD!  Again... .     

[Feralnerd]

- do they normally talk bad about their exes? My ex trash-talked about her ex before me. Same old... bla bla, bla, how he was lazy, did nothing, etc. Now probably I'm the one she trash-talks with her new love of her life

Yes, absolutely. And you probably are going to be twisted into one of those awful exes in stories told to the new guy. But gosh new guy, you're so different from all of them.

- do they normally don't believe you when in r/s that you care, love them. i was always confonted that she doesn't  believe me that I loved her explaining that my actions did not follow my words. No matter what I did, I couldn't prove my love.

I've experienced a variation on this. When I said I loved her, she believed me at the time. But then she would get in a self-sabotaging mood and try to prove to me that I didn't understand her. It was then my job to show her that she was understood, that she was loved, that she wasn't alone in the world. That would keep her sated for a few days before the next crisis.

-is it normal for them to call/text you non stop when you're seperated? On a day we couldn't be together she called me almost every hour. If I didn't respond she would say I'm not there for here when she needs me. At the end I was completely nervous and took my cell even to the toilet in case she would call me:).

Absolutely. She called/texted every day, even when I was seeing her later that night. She was in constant contact with me, and it was cute at first, but became a bit disruptive over time. Although she didn't accuse me of not being there when I needed her if I missed a text, she did seem to resent when I had to end a conversation and go back to work.

Weird that they need you so damned much and then suddenly you're no one to them, eh?

[OutOfEgypt]

My 14 year old son is more mature than my uBPDxw. It's weird I remember once she was telling me how his 13yr old friend thought she was hot (my son told her). It was like she was getting OFF on it. It's freaky when I look back on it. So needy that she got validation from a 13 Yr old

Makes you wonder if these female teachers that end up seducing young boys aren't all pwBPD!  Again... .    

Mywifecrazy... . actually, I do believe my ex is like one of those teachers.  I have thought that many times.  Or perhaps like Jodi Arias.  A disturbed person, for sure.  A therapist told me during our divorce that she would be trolling for our son's friends, soon.  I laughed.  But after the divorce we went through a 9-month recycle, and would you have guessed it?  She would get drunk with one of our son's 18 year old friends and fooled around with him.  She probably had sex with him, but she would never admit it.  She wants so badly to be seen as a good person -but I honestly can't tell if it is to avoid her guilt or because it makes people easier to manipulate.  Maybe both!  Monstrous!

And she can be very sweet and thoughtful, too, which tends to be confusing.  But I've learned my lesson: whether it is unconscious or consciously sadistic, every time I let her close she punishes me or hurts me in some way.  Some jab, some passive-aggressive joke, some insult, some crazy manipulation.  Something.  So, I thank her when she is kind and thoughtful (we do share children together after all), but I keep myself detached emotionally as much as possible because I *know* what is behind the mask.

I have a fourteen year old child, too, who is more mature.  In fact, she often tells me how mommy is a "drama queen" and acts like she is "in high school".  She tells me that she "can't talk to mommy."  Sad... . but at least I'm not having to explain to her that something is wrong there.


But seriously... . I see why NC is the recommended first-step in recovery.  Not only are we emotionally enmeshed at that stage, but the manipulative relating style is SO pervasive that there is literally no way for anybody to totally see all the little things they do to trip them up and keep them on the hook.  Ploys for sympathy, kind gestures, passive-aggressive jabs, trying to get you jealous, acting like a victim, begging for help, flirting, a myriad of attention-seeking behaviors, even just the way they walk into a room... . there are so many little things that are all designed to trip you up, throw you off, keep you confused, keep you thinking about them... . that there is no way anybody could navigate their way through the mess unscathed.  

[mywifecrazy]

Mywifecrazy... . actually, I do believe my ex is like one of those teachers.  I have thought that many times.  Or perhaps like Jodi Arias.  A disturbed person, for sure.  A therapist told me during our divorce that she would be trolling for our son's friends, soon.  I laughed.  But after the divorce we went through a 9-month recycle, and would you have guessed it?  She would get drunk with one of our son's 18 year old friends and fooled around with him.  She probably had sex with him, but she would never admit it.  She wants so badly to be seen as a good person -but I honestly can't tell if it is to avoid her guilt or because it makes people easier to manipulate.  Maybe both!  Monstrous!

That scares the HELL out of me. I'm sorry your family had to be witness to her doing that. It TRUELY is sick. I could actually see my uBPDxw getting plastic surgery or a boob job some day too. She's so shallow that all she thinks about is how people look. Must be the lack of self that pwBPD are dealing with.

but I keep myself detached emotionally as much as possible because I *know* what is behind the mask.

Yes it's sad too. You would like to at least be on a friendly relationship with the X for your kids sake but it's IMPOSSIBLE to do with all the lying and manipulation. I tried it and I was used like I was her toilet paper. Never again. I am now civil towards her but it's NC that allows me to be CIVIL. Actually extreme LC as we have kids.

But seriously... . I see why NC is the recommended first-step in recovery.  Not only are we emotionally enmeshed at that stage, but the manipulative relating style is SO pervasive that there is literally no way for anybody to totally see all the little things they do to trip them up and keep them on the hook.  Ploys for sympathy, kind gestures, passive-aggressive jabs, trying to get you jealous, acting like a victim, begging for help, flirting, a myriad of attention-seeking behaviors, even just the way they walk into a room... . there are so many little things that are all designed to trip you up, throw you off, keep you confused, keep you thinking about them... . that there is no way anybody could navigate their way through the mess unscathed.  

It's mind blowing isn't it? For 20 years she had me in the FOG and her chameleon ways hid it from me but now that the FOG has lifted it is all so crystal clear. Not only the present but looking back things are clear to me. Thank God for BPD Family!

OOE Just like many of us on here our lives closely parallel each other. I wish we could all (women included) get together on here for a beer (non alcoholic for me). I think it would be very therapeutic! Anyone live in SE Pennsylvania in Philadelphia suburbs can hit me up!

[Blimblam]

Octavian,

I really recommend you read through the member 2010s old posts.  I think you will find your answers there. Read through all of them. here is a link

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?action=profile;u=38193;sa=showPosts

I understand your confusion... . trust me.

Your "main" question was mine also.

They do care.  They care a lot, but they do not see you for you you are.  They see the way you value them. To them you are a provider of self worth, and a sense of self.  When you begin to sense cracks in the "perfection" that is your mutual fantasy and they sense you withdraw, they immediately start seeking out and cultivating replacements with a sense of urgency. 

It is a disorder that governs their actions, it is nothing personal.  It is triggered by intimacy and their twisted perceptions.