Handling Insults and Passive-Aggressive Jabs

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hey everyone.  Anyone have any advice on how to handle the verbal insults and passive-aggressive jabs from our BPD exes?  I unfortunately share children with her, so NC is not an option (oh boy, do I wish it was!).  In general we get along, but if I ever ask anything of her that triggers her shame, she'll accuse me of being selfish.  And every now and then she throws in cute little jabs, pretending that she's "just joking around with me" like we're old friends.  Like... . "thinking too much again, huh?  if there's one thing you do, it's think too much."  She, of course, acts like she's saying them in a completely innocent manner.  I want to say, "Obviously not enough, or else I would have left you a decade ago," but I implicitly realize that joining in on the game is probably not the right approach.  She probably wants to see if she can get a rise out of me.  I do believe the ideal situation would be to have total detachment so that it was as if a stranger had said it to me... . in which case my reply would have been something like, "Umm... . what's that all about?  Why are you being all like that?" or "Uh... . okay.  Sure."  Part of me wants to be "always prepared" for her little attempts to throw me off, but I realize that is pretty unrealistic and obsessive to boot.  Any thoughts?  Or does it just get easier to detach and respond (rather than react) the further away you get from them?  I was doing really well for a while, but lately I'm very reactive and angry toward her.  Struggling and very caught up in it all.  Anyway, any wisdom or encouragement would be appreciated.

[OutOfEgypt]

Hey everyone.  Anyone have any advice on how to handle the verbal insults and passive-aggressive jabs from our BPD exes?  I unfortunately share children with her, so NC is not an option (oh boy, do I wish it was!).  In general we get along, but if I ever ask anything of her that triggers her shame, she'll accuse me of being selfish.  And every now and then she throws in cute little jabs, pretending that she's "just joking around with me" like we're old friends.  Like... . "thinking too much again, huh?  if there's one thing you do, it's think too much."  She, of course, acts like she's saying them in a completely innocent manner.  I want to say, "Obviously not enough, or else I would have left you a decade ago," but I implicitly realize that joining in on the game is probably not the right approach.  She probably wants to see if she can get a rise out of me.  I do believe the ideal situation would be to have total detachment so that it was as if a stranger had said it to me... . in which case my reply would have been something like, "Umm... . what's that all about?  Why are you being all like that?" or "Uh... . okay.  Sure."  Part of me wants to be "always prepared" for her little attempts to throw me off, but I realize that is pretty unrealistic and obsessive to boot.  Any thoughts?  Or does it just get easier to detach and respond (rather than react) the further away you get from them?  I was doing really well for a while, but lately I'm very reactive and angry toward her.  Struggling and very caught up in it all.  Anyway, any wisdom or encouragement would be appreciated.

[corraline]

This is something I am dealing with too.  I am haunted by the nasty remarks i receive in emails.  I know its just him projecting pain and blame but it still hurts and still effects me.  I am trying to look at why it triggers me still and acknowledge that it hits me at my own core beliefs.  Not sure if that is what happens for you but if i put the focus back on to myself then the comment or jokes or passive agressive remarks lose their power somewhat.  That is his stuff, i am responsible for my stuff and how i choose to respond or deal with it.  I know that not reacting or in al anon when my ex was spewing verbal abuse, i would respond by saying... "i'm sorry you feel this way"  passive agressive behavior and jokes are hurtful . There are tools on this board for those who share children together and have to communicate more effectively and not get triggered too.

maybe someone who is in the same situation can share something more.

[OutOfEgypt]

What's funny is how I can easily see how to encourage you, but I struggle to tell myself .  Yes, she hits me in my sore spots, presses my buttons for sure.  Tonight, she did it outright because I dared to ask if she would lessen spousal support because I'm sinking financially, while she just bought herself a new truck.  How dare I?  She accused me of being selfish and told me I should be ashamed of myself because she's just started to get on her own two feet.

Yes, I do believe the goal is stepping back in detachment and not feeling the need to respond.  That is part of their game -to put the spotlight on you so that you feel the need to respond.  Unfortunately, it isn't always that easy because we are often caught off guard by their jabs... . by design, I'm sure.  We can't always be on guard and ready to "step back."  Sometimes it just gets to us.  I don't know if there is a way around it.

Sometimes I don't know if saying nothing is the answer or giving a simple answer is.  When she pokes fun at me ("innocently" of course) about overthinking things, do I just chuckle, do I say nothing, do I say, "Yeah, sometimes I do, for sure" (which takes the power away), or do I say something more direct like, "Sorry... . not interested in playing those games?"  I really don't know.

[Blimblam]

the only thing I could think of would be a preemptive strike.  But one of seemingly genuine adoration.  

[OutOfEgypt]

Blimblam... . are you suggesting I essentially butter her up whenever I see her?  For example, instead of being defensive I act friendly and kind toward her and tell her that I think she's a good and generous person?  That might actually work.  I have done something like that before.  I appealed to her desire to be viewed as a good and giving person.  The problem is... . I honestly don't think I can lie that well.

[Blimblam]

Blimblam... . are you suggesting I essentially butter her up whenever I see her?  For example, instead of being defensive I act friendly and kind toward her and tell her that I think she's a good and generous person?  That might actually work.  I have done something like that before.  I appealed to her desire to be viewed as a good and giving person.  The problem is... . I honestly don't think I can lie that well.

yes. all you have to do is look at her like she is desirable, and like maybe you have regret ur not together.  Like she wants the D. Think of it as playing her own game on your terms.  So you have to first.  But like your disappointed because she is so desirable still.  I think that would tick her boxes.  I wish I thought of that sooner. Then you can make a passive aggressive statement to make her feel insecure. push pull... . this is the language they understand.  Just keep the interaction short because you will not win at this game for long.

[OutOfEgypt]

I think I would get somewhere with her if I buttered her up, for sure.  But I dunno. I still think I'm playing with fire.  It's not going to stop her from lying to me and using me and taking advantage of me, and getting "close" enough (even if faking) to her in order to butter her up might put me back into the path of her deception and using me.  It would only really placate her rages and passive-aggression and blaming/accusing.  

Hmm... . I'll ask my T.

[Blimblam]

I think I would get somewhere with her if I buttered her up, for sure.  But I dunno. I still think I'm playing with fire.  It's not going to stop her from lying to me and using me and taking advantage of me.  It would only really placate her rages and passive-aggression and blaming/accusing.  

Hmm... . I'll ask my T.

yes playing with fire for sure... . but so is any interaction with her. But when she sees herself as desirable in your eyes but you do not chase and you seem aloof even she will want to remain that way in your eyes.  The problem is she is unsure so she will test to see if you will abandon again. So you must act first. With an undertone message that she is more desirable... . then you must absolutely must not be tempted to recycle.

ugh I wish I thought of all this sooner but the FOG the FOG!

[OutOfEgypt]

I'm actually not sure it will work, though, at least with my ex.  Certainly, she lashes out when she feels like I don't care.  But when I did... . sometimes it would bring her to stomp on me just because.  Like pull-push.  I'd be nice to her and get close to her, and she would say the most ridiculous and hurtful things -in a very matter of fact way- and it hurt badly.  I really dunno the answer.  It's like... . if you go away, they try to lure you in and then lash out when you don't respond.  If you come close, they crush you, too.  I'm not sure there is an answer.

I'll ask my T and see what he says, though.

[JackBlacknBlue]

I can see what you're saying Blimblam but I disagree on approach.  I too get the jabs, also under supposedly playful innocent banter but at one of my sensitive hot buttons.  I think if I were to preemptively butter her up and validate her, it will lead to her thinking more of the situation and then I have to deal with that.  I vote for trying to appear non plussed by the jab and making innocuous comment.  Much easier said than done.  When my upwBPD started with the jabs last week, I rolled my eyes and started walking away.  She ran after me and changed the topic.  When I have said something to her in the past about not appreciating the comments, she said she was just stating what she thought so how could I be upset since they are her thoughts.  It is a no win situation.  

[OutOfEgypt]

JackBlacknBlue

That reminds me somewhat of something I learned in a parenting course called Love and Logic.  One of the catch-all "tools" to use with children when they are acting out is the "energy drain".  When the child acts out, instead of getting sucked into the madness or the argument, you essentially go "limp".  You lose your energy.  You might say something like, "Wow.  Suddenly I have no energy."  Of course, with kids you make it into a fun game.

Either way, the parenting class teaches you not to get emotionally involved in the antics of the child.  I think the same applies here.  Emotionally detach, step back, don't play the game.  They recommend one-liners, too.  One of them to use on children who are being manipulative is "Nice try... . "

But I wonder if something like that would work, here.

[Blimblam]

I used to say that in the beginning... . another one is "wow ok."  another trick I used to use would be to point at something and say look at that. and change the subject.  It worked for a while... .  It works in the short term but they are too persistant over time.

[Turkish]

I think I would get somewhere with her if I buttered her up, for sure.  But I dunno. I still think I'm playing with fire.  It's not going to stop her from lying to me and using me and taking advantage of me, and getting "close" enough (even if faking) to her in order to butter her up might put me back into the path of her deception and using me.  It would only really placate her rages and passive-aggression and blaming/accusing.  

Hmm... . I'll ask my T.

Good idea.

Do you view her behaviors as being triggered off of yours? Ok, so they all seem to be... . maybe I'm asking the obvious. She sounds like she's channeling Queen here. I don't know what your custody situation is, but I share joint with mine. I've initiated LC, and luckily pick ups and drop offs are at her mom's, so I've gone a month now without seeing her. Communication through email is BIFF. Texts are rare,.and she initiates them. I did have a 20 min conversation on the phone with her the other day for various things that needed to be discussed, though I push for email to document. My LC stands firm because she wanted to hang out with the kids like we were just best buds, like I am supposed to accept the abandonment and cheating as it "had to happen" as she said.

Yes, I can still be triggered by her subtle jabs and inappropriate humor, and her devaluing tone like she used the last time I saw her when we were checking out schools for S4 (I almost lost it but i had the foresight to take the kids with us). We co parent, but I also parallel parent. I am not above using FOG, and I did. All in all, I swallowed my anger, and let a lot if it out here in the fall and winter as she all but threw HER r/s in my face while neglecting our children. LC worked for me while she lived in my home, and my boundaries came down stronger after she left. The key was to not trigger her, using BIFF, and SET.

I don't have much advice on the spousal support issue. I wasn't married, but making twice her salary, pay CS (and half the childcare). She agreed to below guideline, somewhat because she feels guilty and that I haven't "thrown it in her face" as her favorite phrase suggests. I told her the other day that if I had to pay guideline, I would stop contributing to S4's college fund, and wouldn't start one for D2. I keep my mouth shut in our town... . and I am not above playing Wa if either. This is about survival.

[myself]

An ex I share kids with (not my ex-wBPD) has a tendency to take some of her sh!t out on me. I either let it pass, knowing it has nothing to do with me, or call her on it, letting her know she's crossed a line. Not that it stops her from doing it again, but for me it's what feels right at the time for Me.

[blissful_camper]

When someone hurls a jab or a put down at you, they expect that you'll either fight back, or say nothing about it.  :)o what they don't expect you to do.  Maybe it'll put an end to it.  Make eye contact with her (briefly, calmly) and say (calmly, no anger) "you must have had a pretty bad day to feel the need to say something so mean to me. I hope that you're feeling better soon."  

If she responds angrily, say it again.  "I hope you're feeling better soon, I'm saddened to see that you had a bad day."

If she continues, change the subject to something positive.  "Life is grand, I'm so thankful for the simple pleasures life offers."  

You're sending the message that you refuse to be her victim. You're also letting her know that it's pretty pathetic that she needs to jab at others to make herself feel better.  Stay positive.  The more positive you are, the more she'll realize that her jabs (negative behavior) don't impact you.  Make yourself a positive, impenetrable wall.  She may test you a bit, but if you're consistent, she'll get bored with it.  

[OutOfEgypt]

blissful_camper:  that is actually really good.

What about in cases where the jabs are less obvious, such as when they are acting "playful", though pressing on hot button issues with their playful joking?

You are right though... . they expect that you will say nothing, stunned, or that you will react angrily, at which time they get to say something like, "Wow, you can't take a joke.  You're too serious."  Both are manipulations.  Manipulating you into silent defeat or into reactive anger.

[Blimblam]

wow, the fact I couldn't think like that anymore really makes me aware of how far gone I still am.  It is intense how powerful their manipulations are like being conditioned and brainwashed.

[myself]

It's not about what they expect.

That's still playing the game.

Be true to yourself.

[OutOfEgypt]

Myself.  That is very true, too.  If I want to say "Whatever" and roll my eyes, so be it.  If she goes home celebrating because she got a reaction out of me, then how pathetic is that?  Transcending the game is the ultimate goal, now matter how it is handled.  

It is too easy to get wrapped up into what our reactions tell *them*.  "Oh no... . if I react that way, I'm communicating to them that they can make me angry." Well yeah.  And if I wanted to make her angry, I could.  Not that hard.  It seems like the whole point of detaching and moving on is getting to the place where you are no longer worrying about what they will think or how they will react to you.  And as we get there, we probably find that we are more able to respond intentionally rather than react angrily.

[AlonelyOne]

I made the mistake of breaking my own rule, and engaged my uS2BX on a non-practical topic after a passive-aggressive comment. (Well it was actually practical but ran over into emotional.)  Became a total blowout nightmare.

The crap that gets tossed my way as accusations is mind-blowing.  Things seemed furious. Then later got a call and she was soft. How the heck does that work in their brains, I just don't know.

Anyways, I feel with you... . it is absolutely crazy. 

[BacknthSaddle]

And every now and then she throws in cute little jabs, pretending that she's "just joking around with me" like we're old friends.  Like... . "thinking too much again, huh?  if there's one thing you do, it's think too much."  She, of course, acts like she's saying them in a completely innocent manner.  I want to say, "Obviously not enough, or else I would have left you a decade ago," but I implicitly realize that joining in on the game is probably not the right approach.  

This is the entire story of my post-break relationship with my ex.  I could write a page worth of them.  She is, of course, just "teasing."  Luckily I have NC as an option.  I was advised early on that, should any contact occur, to respond (if necessary) in a completely emotionless, dispassionate way.  Scan your responses before sending for any evidence of your emotional state and edit accordingly (again, if you must respond).

[topknot]

Last time when I got the vomit,  I texted "Not engaging, honey - love you - why don't you go have a glass of wine?" All texting stopped. I think his brain got so scrambled it was ready to implode.

[blissful_camper]

For me, when I draw the line in the sand (this is my boundary), it's important that I enforce it.  That was one of the lessons I had to learn, and I'm happy that I have a better understanding of that now.  

If I were in a situation where I had to continue dealing with the person (shared custody, coworker, etc) I would do my best to defuse the situation and at the same time set a boundary.  

What I'm suggesting is developing coping skills that will empower you, and at the same time (hopefully) put an end to being at the receiving end of passive aggressive behavior.  

This is about you (not her). Finding coping skills that work for you, doesn't mean that you're playing the game.  It's about finding ways to deal with a difficult situation on your terms rather than hers.  

The less obvious jabs can quickly escalate into more obvious ones.  IMHO, you're being set up for conflict.  The way I handled it, is I would back up a bit, and ask a question that puts the ball back in the aggressor's court.  (Without creating conflict.)  The goal is to defuse, not escalate the situation.  

If I shared custody, I might ask the other (gently) "how is your course of action compatible with our finding harmonious ways to co-parent?"  And leave it at that.  Let her answer that question.  If she does, listen compassionately, and that's it.  Just listen.  :)on't offer advice.  When she is finished, you could say something like "excellent, thank you for sharing your thoughts, now we can move forward."  Even if she responds with "you can't take a joke, you're too serious" you can still say, "thank you for sharing your thoughts, now we can move forward."  

[JackBlacknBlue]

My friend with uBPD starts with jabs about the way I speak.  She knows I had a speech impediment as a child and when she wants to get under my skin, she'll mock mimic me and say she can't understand what I am saying.  If I reply, she'll either mock mimic that part too or she'll say that she is just being honest. 

It is the first time in my entire adult life that anyone has said that they cannot understand me.  I let her get so in my head that I asked other friends if they have any trouble understanding me when I speak.  They laughed and asked if I was serious. 

any suggestions on how to respond to upBPD?

[talithacumi]

Sorry to hear you keep finding yourself in this position, OOE. In my experience, it's all part of the same dynamic that sucked us in, kept us walking on eggshells, and saying/doing whatever it might take to make our exes happy.

Which, of course, after being with us for as long as they were, they've simply come to expect regardless of how dramatically our situation/relationship with them has actually changed.

You might just try to validate, then redirect the conversation BACK to whatever topic triggered/made her uncomfortable enough to resort to this kind of misdirection - because really, that's all that's actually happening here - she doesn't like the way whatever you're saying is making her feel, so she's doing the one she's learned, from experience, she can do to get you to stop even thinking, let alone talking about it anymore.

When she says something that triggers your insecurities by accusing you of thinking too much or being selfish, say something like, "You know, you might be right. I'll have to think about that. I'm sorry if it makes you uncomfortable, but that doesn't change the fact that it's something I feel we need to talk about. I'm coming to you for help (by giving me an answer to the question I asked - or - by agreeing to accept less than the full amount of the spousal support due next month so I can afford to shelter/clothe/feed our kids). If you can't, or aren't able to help me, that's okay. Just let me know."

Don't know if it will work to get you the help you need/want/feel you deserve from her ... . but I do think it's probably the ONLY way you're going to deflect and ultimately get her to stop making those kinds of comments in the first place.

Venting about it here, rather than allowing yourself to engage/respond to it like you have in the past, will probably help, too.

Sorry you're having to deal with this. Big hug.

TC

[blissful_camper]

That's so wrong.  That's downright nasty on her part. 

Friendships are optional.  If someone's behavior is abusive I extricate myself from that friendship.   

If you wish to keep her as a friend, you could say, "I'm sorry that your day has been so bad that you feel the need to mock me." Then listen.  If she apologizes, you could (gently) let her know that her behavior is inappropriate.  "I feel your behavior (mocking me) is not healthy for our friendship."  If she doesn't get it, you may want to rethink having a friendship with her.

If a friend treated me that way, I would move that friend out of my life.  But that's just me. 

My friend with uBPD starts with jabs about the way I speak.  She knows I had a speech impediment as a child and when she wants to get under my skin, she'll mock mimic me and say she can't understand what I am saying.  If I reply, she'll either mock mimic that part too or she'll say that she is just being honest. 

It is the first time in my entire adult life that anyone has said that they cannot understand me.  I let her get so in my head that I asked other friends if they have any trouble understanding me when I speak.  They laughed and asked if I was serious. 

any suggestions on how to respond to upBPD?

[JackBlacknBlue]

I tried to move her out of my life and there were negative implications for me at work. We're colleagues.  I am now maintaining an at arm's distance friendship with her for professional needs.   Otherwise, she would definitely be cut off.

[blissful_camper]

I tried to move her out of my life and there were negative implications for me at work. We're colleagues.  I am now maintaining an at arm's distance friendship with her for professional needs.   Otherwise, she would definitely be cut off.

Is there someone in human resources you can speak with about her behavior? 

[babyducks]

. I either let it pass, knowing it has nothing to do with me, or call her on it, letting her know she's crossed a line.

I like this approach myself.

establish a boundary and hold to it.

Tell her, "its not okay for you to talk to me like that anymore,"

and if she keeps coming

its not okay for you to talk to me like that and I will ------fill in the blank with what works for you if she continues.

I will leave the room,

I will hang up and talk to you later

I will go outside and walk the dog

[OutOfEgypt]

Talked to my T yesterday.  Was good.  He basically encouraged me to get back my focus rather than getting caught up with how to handle this and that.  Here's the summary, put into my own words.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=228015.msg12453416#msg12453416