In Agony not being with my BPD

[outside9x]

HI, it's been over a year and a half, and I haven't seen my BPD GF .  I am in my 60's in excellent health, have many friends and been seeing a counselor who is experienced with BPD and relationship.   

We have made contact over the year (phone or text) and a couple of times I almost went back but the fear made me change my mind, and cancel the meet up.   She is very typical of all the BPD behaviors, rage, yelling, punching, breakups etc, and lying, and caught up on a dating site even though we were exclusive, and asked her nicely to remove herself, which she didn't and was very mean about it.

She has no friends, is distant with all family members and has had many cosmetic surgeries.  She was married 3 times, engaged another.  She is of my age, and yes, very alluring and sexual, shapely and smart.

I know going back would be just devastating since we had many breakups etc.  and then it would all start again, and her running out of cars etc, is tiresome and troubling.  All the splitting wears me out too.

I daydream about learning these tools to cope, but see many struggle with it, and usually they are couples who are deep into a long relationship or married.  I was with her over 2 years.

My question is , Is this normal to feel all this pain to want to go back to her knowing she can't change.  I mean how long does this pain last?

Also, I am dating this wonderful girl who loves me, and I think I love her, but I can't give myself fully when I have this pull toward the other.  This pull happens for days then goes away, then comes back.  I hate it, and feel like giving up and just going back.  Any advise or experience is helpful.

Yes, I know I can't change her, and I know, I would have to change and still it would be ugly.  Thanks for reading

[rock_and_a_hard_place]

I'm not there yet (the agony) - but I might get there soon enough. One thing that is a bit odd, is that reading through all the stories here, I recognize my own relationship, and think of the other leaving/left SOs: "Oh gosh, those poor people." Yet, when it comes to my own navel-gazing I find myself thinking she really wasn't that bad - in spite of cheating, raging, little breakups along the way, restricting my own behaviour, and never sharing anything. It's very hypocritical of me.

I was thinking why the urge to go back might come on so strong for us wanting to return to exBPD partners. I'm not sure about this, but it might be the CHANGE in emotional states that we ourselves experience while being split (black-white, white-black) or the push-pull is so attractive to us. First, it's never boring (in fact, it's exhausting), and maybe we like the struggle. Second, I know that when I change emotional states - the bigger the change the happier I or normally anyone (any human typically gets). For example, a multi-billionaire winning the lottery is already financially fulfilled and possibly happy - and sure, an extra two-million will make him/her a bit more content (but not much). Alternatively, a pauper winning 2 million experiences a DRASTIC in life and probably mood.

Just a thought, maybe as exSOs we're addicted to the change of our own states provoked by the person with BPD. It's like winning the lottery when you're poor. I find myself thinking of all the very sweet things she said, and how much it elevated me because I was pushed down so far (a few minutes/hours/days) previous. This pattern happened repeatedly. But, gradually it took longer to get out of the downswells.

Seesaws are fun, especially if they move frequently up and down several feet off the ground, but eventually you're gonna sick and throw up or idle at the bottom for way too long.

[woofhound]

I know exactly how you feel, my friend.

The codependency is a lot like an addiction to heroine. Its the most beautiful devil. You want it but it will kill you, and you know it. Whenever I start feeling the way you feel now I remind myself of that and begin to focus my energy on myself and my future.

[outside9x]

Hi Rock & I,

That was very insightful.  Too the point.  The change in emotional states, that hate U love you, it certainly affects the chemistry within us, its a known fact and exciting.  I reading your note, I remember that like a gambler, they really don't play to win, they play for the excitement.  If they won all the time, they be bored.  Its the prospect of losing, then winning, that makes them feel alive.

I need to break that cycle and be at peace.  Break that addiction.  For it's what inside ourselves, not so much them, that has us running back for more beatings.

[BacknthSaddle]

I was thinking why the urge to go back might come on so strong for us wanting to return to exBPD partners. I'm not sure about this, but it might be the CHANGE in emotional states that we ourselves experience while being split (black-white, white-black) or the push-pull is so attractive to us. First, it's never boring (in fact, it's exhausting), and maybe we like the struggle. Second, I know that when I change emotional states - the bigger the change the happier I or normally anyone (any human typically gets). I find myself thinking of all the very sweet things she said, and how much it elevated me because I was pushed down so far (a few minutes/hours/days) previous. This pattern happened repeatedly. But, gradually it took longer to get out of the downswells.

I think there is a lot of truth in this.  I saw red flags with my ex in the beginning and resisted her advances, which were alluring.  It was only when I saw how drastically she could turn on me that I actually wanted her to stay in my life.  Powerful stuff indeed.  

It is a fight against boredom, yes.  For many people, boredom = death, and these dynamics make us feel alive.  But we ARE alive.  We just have to find healthier ways to feel it.

[thereishope]

Hi Rock & I,

That was very insightful.  Too the point.  The change in emotional states, that hate U love you, it certainly affects the chemistry within us, its a known fact and exciting.  I reading your note, I remember that like a gambler, they really don't play to win, they play for the excitement.  If they won all the time, they be bored.  Its the prospect of losing, then winning, that makes them feel alive.

I need to break that cycle and be at peace.  Break that addiction.  For it's what inside ourselves, not so much them, that has us running back for more beatings.

This is very good insight I think I have to apply to why I'm still here in this BPD r/s.  How the ?&^&  did I get SOO attached to a mere HUMAN BEING?... .it so obviously is an addiction/an idol because I am bound to it so badly... .  Very good suggestion that the up/down push/pull... .feel so bad so the next good feels good enough to keep us hanging on til the next horrible bad but we downplay the bad so we can get to the next relieving "good"... .What insanity!  And yes, we are responsible for keeping ourselves here, ultimately... .

God help us! 

[rock_and_a_hard_place]

The change in emotional states, that hate U love you, it certainly affects the chemistry within us, its a known fact and exciting.  I reading your note, I remember that like a gambler, they really don't play to win, they play for the excitement.  If they won all the time, they be bored.  Its the prospect of losing, then winning, that makes them feel alive.

I need to break that cycle and be at peace.  Break that addiction.  For it's what inside ourselves, not so much them, that has us running back for more beatings.

Another insight, perhaps a bit naive - is a possible cause of the panic attacks? I experienced my first yesterday while at work with no warning - I actually thought I was having a heart attack - I'm in my early 30s and fit. Is it possible the removal of the BPD partner from your life actually now means you have excess energy? Excess nervous energy previously used for coping with and managing the BPD partner trying to elicit the change back to white. Without the partner, you have to find some place to put that excess energy or you'll get a severe physiological response (panic attack).

Any thoughts? Any one think this might have a grain of truth to it?

[thereishope]

The change in emotional states, that hate U love you, it certainly affects the chemistry within us, its a known fact and exciting.  I reading your note, I remember that like a gambler, they really don't play to win, they play for the excitement.  If they won all the time, they be bored.  Its the prospect of losing, then winning, that makes them feel alive.

I need to break that cycle and be at peace.  Break that addiction.  For it's what inside ourselves, not so much them, that has us running back for more beatings.

Another insight, perhaps a bit naive - is a possible cause of the panic attacks? I experienced my first yesterday while at work with no warning - I actually thought I was having a heart attack - I'm in my early 30s and fit. Is it possible the removal of the BPD partner from your life actually now means you have excess energy? Excess nervous energy previously used for coping with and managing the BPD partner trying to elicit the change back to white. Without the partner, you have to find some place to put that excess energy or you'll get a severe physiological response (panic attack).

Any thoughts? Any one think this might have a grain of truth to it?

I think this is good insight... .Like a dose of adrenaline with nowhere to go now... .I am still in r/s but trying to work my mind/heart/soul out of it... .  I used to have times where I wanted to "jump out of my skin" and felt like I couldn't breathe when my uBPDh was raging at me and I didn't know what I was dealing with... .This has since stopped since I learned about BPD and decided to not allow him to have control over my reactions to him... .I do wonder, when I leave here, how I'm going to react, mentally, physically... .

I do think you have a good point.

[outside9x]

Thanks WoofHound,

Sound advice, I worry though that I try to soften things up thinkining she'll change because she is older and wants love.  She probably in a relationship, but has reached out ot me.  Having said that, I know many do, just to toy with you and play one against the other.  Them changing?  From all I read, unless that get into some serious DBT training and stick there (highly unlikely unless greatly motivated) that's not a chance things will change and this is what I tell myself, but the urge to reunite, despite this , is like a power addictive drug to feel I completed myself, I guess.

[outside9x]

Hi ThereisHope,

I think the panic attacks you are experiencing could be directly related to what you say. I think maybe subconsciously you were walking on eggs, and regardless if they split you either black or white, you were ready and your emotions got intuned to that horrible flow.  

Now it's gone, but yet, the chemistry inside still has not adjusted fully, and missing either one, may cause these sudden attacks.  I am no doctor, but I do agree with your assessment.  We all get used to things, and when they are gone, adjustments take time.  

I think for us though it's a bit more, due to are dynamic bonding with them, it's more acute.  No fun for sure.  BUt I am hoping we will beat this!

[thereishope]

Hi ThereisHope,

I think the panic attacks you are experiencing could be directly related to what you say. I think maybe subconsciously you were walking on eggs, and regardless if they split you either black or white, you were ready and your emotions got intuned to that horrible flow.  

Now it's gone, but yet, the chemistry inside still has not adjusted fully, and missing either one, may cause these sudden attacks.  I am no doctor, but I do agree with your assessment.  We all get used to things, and when they are gone, adjustments take time.  

I think for us though it's a bit more, due to are dynamic bonding with them, it's more acute.  No fun for sure.  BUt I am hoping we will beat this!

Me too, outside9x, me too... .  I trust we will... .The process of getting there is just no fun... .But we'll make it.

[outside9x]

WHat worst is I feel I can somehow reach out to her, use some of the tools here to comfort her in her outburst yet, but firmly tell her I will not accept the behavior of her emotions.  That sending a strong message of what is not tolerated and acting on it would help us both, but I think I am doing wishful thinking here, and I know she could retaliate by closing doors, refusing to talk or breaking up again until she gets her way.  Again, she kick friends out of her life for less, and told me she didn't needs friends that badly.  I would shake my head since, she had no friends, or did until she booted the only one away I saw in 2 years over nothing.

Either way, as my dear Dad would say, that's no way to live and love.

Thoughts ?

[thereishope]

WHat worst is I feel I can somehow reach out to her, use some of the tools here to comfort her in her outburst yet, but firmly tell her I will not accept the behavior of her emotions.  That sending a strong message of what is not tolerated and acting on it would help us both, but I think I am doing wishful thinking here, and I know she could retaliate by closing doors, refusing to talk or breaking up again until she gets her way.  Again, she kick friends out of her life for less, and told me she didn't needs friends that badly.  I would shake my head since, she had no friends, or did until she booted the only one away I saw in 2 years over nothing.

Either way, as my dear Dad would say, that's no way to live and love.

Thoughts ?

In my situation I feel as you do, like I've wanted to try and change the way I do things... .use the tools here on this site... .set boundaries... .be kind/validating but not allow the maltreatment of myself... .because I KNOW this would not only be good for myself, but that it is IMPORTANT to not allow him to think controlling the universe with his BPD is ok either... .

The problem is that actually putting it into practice seems overwhelming and oppressive and almost impossible for me... .If I do things a certain way I know how he will react, so reality for me has become an automatic internal practice to do things to "keep the peace" in all matters... .I am expecting his displeasure in almost everything I do... .so I don't do much anymore... .I have come to avoid doing anything that cause friction, although I have seen that it doesn't really matter because he will always come up with something else of my behavior or actions that he doesn't really approve of and that he has to correct... .So I'm left with the feeling that I basically have to deal with ME... .how I feel... .which has become kind of basically HELPLESS in the situation... .and I need to decide if I want to live like this for the rest of my life... .or any longer at all... .

[outside9x]

Hi ThereisHOPE,

I agree, again, maybe for a short term (if we don't kid ourselves) we can do this, but after awhile you cannot deny and push down your own wishes and emotions, and joys to be happy, which should naturally happen , instead of the continually stuffing of your own feelings down a tube just to make them happy, and then once again your needs and all your emotions get pushed aside for him or her.  It would be kinda like we are more caregivers, then friends or lovers, who would natually want to nuture each other, and love each other.

Sure, these tools might come in handy down the raod with much more helathy people, when the situation would arise, now and then.  

But, we are slowly killing ourselves emotionally/physically and mentally.  I see that clearly now from you post since you are still involved.  It wears you down, and I now remember the feelings.  I mean sometimes, I didn't want to see her, I was just so emotionally tired and needed rest from it.   Then she would cry and beg me to come over.  It was back and forth like that.  Exhausting!

God bless, and be strong.  :)Oing the right thing is not easy and sometimes hurts, though I think we are taught that doing the right thing makes us feel good.  That is not always true!

Be strong, be brave, I feel much better, and hopefully I will keep this going.  I think to slip is natural because, after all, we all want things to work, and we all have compassion for those we loved.  

Take care ~

[thereishope]

Hi ThereisHOPE,

I agree, again, maybe for a short term (if we don't kid ourselves) we can do this, but after awhile you cannot deny and push down your own wishes and emotions, and joys to be happy, which should naturally happen , instead of the continually stuffing of your own feelings down a tube just to make them happy, and then once again your needs and all your emotions get pushed aside for him or her.  It would be kinda like we are more caregivers, then friends or lovers, who would natually want to nuture each other, and love each other.

Sure, these tools might come in handy down the raod with much more helathy people, when the situation would arise, now and then.  

But, we are slowly killing ourselves emotionally/physically and mentally.  I see that clearly now from you post since you are still involved.  It wears you down, and I now remember the feelings.  I mean sometimes, I didn't want to see her, I was just so emotionally tired and needed rest from it.   Then she would cry and beg me to come over.  It was back and forth like that.  Exhausting!

God bless, and be strong.  :)Oing the right thing is not easy and sometimes hurts, though I think we are taught that doing the right thing makes us feel good.  That is not always true!

Be strong, be brave, I feel much better, and hopefully I will keep this going.  I think to slip is natural because, after all, we all want things to work, and we all have compassion for those we loved.  

Take care ~

Thank u for your encouragement as well…. Talking about it helps me to see a little more clearly too. You take care also… be kind to yourself… stay strong… and keep going!  God bless!

[Hope0807]

What great insight from all!  I DO know the feelings of temptations to remain connected  or reconnect to the BPD but fully realize how detrimental and delusional of a choice that would be for my own quality of life and I WILL NOT sell myself short now that I learned so much about the BPD illness.  Their demonstrations of love (although it is THEIR "love" is not genuine and what most people who want to be whole in life can survive with.  The best way to describe it would be an illusion.  The BPD brain cannot truly extend authentic love the way the rest of us do.  It has to do with the coping skills and emotional management that they never fully learned as a child.  They are simply incapable of it and everything we perceive as love in our direction is simply an attempt for the BPD to round-up and put a choke hold onto the emotional security blanket/constant ego booster/soother that they need to function on a daily basis.  Speaking for myself only, I have no desire to be with someone who either doesn't want, or isn't sure if they want to be with me in the same way I want them.  For 7 years I gave in ways and was constantly left wondering what exactly am I on the receiving end of aside from…chaos , rage and uncertainty in one former another?  I am also starting to educate myself and be more introspective about what in ME allowed for his self-destructive personality to wreak such havoc on my once quality-filled life for so long.  Save yourself, heal yourself, and surround yourself with those who give of themselves as fully as you do or will. 

The change in emotional states, that hate U love you, it certainly affects the chemistry within us, its a known fact and exciting.  I reading your note, I remember that like a gambler, they really don't play to win, they play for the excitement.  If they won all the time, they be bored.  Its the prospect of losing, then winning, that makes them feel alive.

I need to break that cycle and be at peace.  Break that addiction.  For it's what inside ourselves, not so much them, that has us running back for more beatings.

Another insight, perhaps a bit naive - is a possible cause of the panic attacks? I experienced my first yesterday while at work with no warning - I actually thought I was having a heart attack - I'm in my early 30s and fit. Is it possible the removal of the BPD partner from your life actually now means you have excess energy? Excess nervous energy previously used for coping with and managing the BPD partner trying to elicit the change back to white. Without the partner, you have to find some place to put that excess energy or you'll get a severe physiological response (panic attack).

Any thoughts? Any one think this might have a grain of truth to it?

[thereishope]

Hope0807

I need to read things like this… Thank you for your strong stance and for your exhortation to take care of ourselves.  Your words ring true to me…. Thanks again…

[topknot]

Great thread, and the usual amazing insights from our Board   Just wanted to say, if it is of any help for you to heal, you must keep in mind the percentage of craziness compared to the good times. Yes, there were those great soul to soul moments,  but those quickly ended with their coldness and mood change.  He wouldn't let me have him, and it drove me nuts. Also, my mantra in my head when I ruminate like that is, "Topknot, stop giving him all your power. It is yours." I feel so much stronger as a person now, it was almost easier to give it away... .They weren't in the same love as we were.  Another thing that helps is when I think about how much further I would have been on my life journey without four years of interruption that were wasted and left me like a trailer park after a hurricane hit. Boy, that visual snaps me back into reality!

[thereishope]

Great thread, and the usual amazing insights from our Board   Just wanted to say, if it is of any help for you to heal, you must keep in mind the percentage of craziness compared to the good times. Yes, there were those great soul to soul moments,  but those quickly ended with their coldness and mood change.  He wouldn't let me have him, and it drove me nuts. Also, my mantra in my head when I ruminate like that is, "Topknot, stop giving him all your power. It is yours." I feel so much stronger as a person now, it was almost easier to give it away... .They weren't in the same love as we were.  Another thing that helps is when I think about how much further I would have been on my life journey without four years of interruption that were wasted and left me like a trailer park after a hurricane hit. Boy, that visual snaps me back into reality!

Thank you for sharing this, TopKnot... .I need to hear this stuff right about now... .I'm sitting here crying thinking about the next steps I think it is wise to take but it hurts really bad... .The soul to soul moments have been very convincing and I really have put up with a lot to hold onto them... .  I too think of things I really wanted to do and thought we were going to do together but instead got sucked into 4 years of dealing with BPD as the idol of our life.  Thanks again for sharing.