Like trying to be friends with a volcano

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi All.  New here and it was recommended that I post a question to you all about a current situation I'm working through with my BPD friend of 20 years.

About 2 years ago I set some boundaries with her which she interpreted as me being upset with her.  Shortly after, a major event took place in her extended family and, because I didn't do the things she thought I should have in that situation, she became really disproportionately angry with me.

Since that time, she has said that everything is fine, but she's been slowly cutting me off via every passive way possible.  First, she unfollowed me on Twitter.  Then on Instagram.  Then she restricted my view of her Facebook page so I could barely see anything anymore (she told me that she was "only posting to select individuals" now).  Then she untagged herself from all of the pictures of us both.  This past week, she unfriended me. 

It's been a slow, steady, decline of connection but without any sort of communication from her other than the occasional text where everything seems fine.  I'm certain that she's looking for some sort of response from me, but I haven't been taking the bait.

I was a lot more hurt by her when this all started, but with the boundaries I set up and the amount of time that's gone by, I've slowly gotten more accustomed to her absence.  And, while I miss the fun friend that she could be, I definitely don't miss the drama, the manipulation, or always feeling like I was "walking on eggshells" because I really never knew what might set her off.

Anyone have any thoughts or advice about how to handle this kind of systematic, passive aggressive detaching from someone with BPD?  My biggest fear right now is that she's not actually done with me... .  If I don't react to her unfriending me (which I don't intend to), I'm not sure what she'll do next which is unsettling.  I just have no idea how a BPD really thinks, so making sense of her actions or trying to predict/understand what she may do next feels impossible since she definitely doesn't approach things the same way emotionally healthy people do.

I would be so very thankful for any words of wisdom and understanding... .

[haro8848]

Hi All.  New here and it was recommended that I post a question to you all about a current situation I'm working through with my BPD friend of 20 years.

About 2 years ago I set some boundaries with her which she interpreted as me being upset with her.  Shortly after, a major event took place in her extended family and, because I didn't do the things she thought I should have in that situation, she became really disproportionately angry with me.

Since that time, she has said that everything is fine, but she's been slowly cutting me off via every passive way possible.  First, she unfollowed me on Twitter.  Then on Instagram.  Then she restricted my view of her Facebook page so I could barely see anything anymore (she told me that she was "only posting to select individuals" now).  Then she untagged herself from all of the pictures of us both.  This past week, she unfriended me. 

It's been a slow, steady, decline of connection but without any sort of communication from her other than the occasional text where everything seems fine.  I'm certain that she's looking for some sort of response from me, but I haven't been taking the bait.

I was a lot more hurt by her when this all started, but with the boundaries I set up and the amount of time that's gone by, I've slowly gotten more accustomed to her absence.  And, while I miss the fun friend that she could be, I definitely don't miss the drama, the manipulation, or always feeling like I was "walking on eggshells" because I really never knew what might set her off.

Anyone have any thoughts or advice about how to handle this kind of systematic, passive aggressive detaching from someone with BPD?  My biggest fear right now is that she's not actually done with me... .  If I don't react to her unfriending me (which I don't intend to), I'm not sure what she'll do next which is unsettling.  I just have no idea how a BPD really thinks, so making sense of her actions or trying to predict/understand what she may do next feels impossible since she definitely doesn't approach things the same way emotionally healthy people do.

I would be so very thankful for any words of wisdom and understanding... .

[SomerledDottir]

Hi, Haro8848   

I don't have any wisdom to share and am actually curious to see the responses you receive.

I had a similar situation with my uBPDsis.  We weren't raised together, same dad, different moms.  She found me on ancestry.com, seemed very happy and accepting of me until one day she suddenly wasn't.  We had a big blow-up, followed by NC.  I don't do social media, but I have a blog, on which she had become a frequent commenter. 

Around 2 1/2-3 months after she initiated NC (and if she hadn't, I would have after her cruel attacks and monstrous lies that she uncorked on my mother and me), she went on my blog and systematically removed all her comments but one, curiously the one she let remain was political in nature.  All her pronouncements of love for me, etc., all gone.  It was very hurtful, although as you stated in your case, not nearly as much so as the initial onslaught that was followed by the NC.

Sorry, don't mean to hi-jack your thread; only hope it helps you to know that you're not alone in this and I, too wondered how to react.  In the end, I just removed her one last comment, as well as all of my responses to her other comments, which looked silly now with her comments gone.  Maybe it was petty to remove her last comment, but honestly, I did it because I was hurt, and because seeing it there reminded me of her when things were going well between us and the way things ended up, the reminder of how things used to be just hurt too much.

It certainly seems as if your friend is trying to provoke a reaction from you.  I think your choice not to respond is probably the wisest, as it seems to me pwBPD are especially good at twisting things that nons say or do if they want to paint us black.  And I guess if you do nothing, you could be accused of not caring, but my gut says you're best off to not react, and thereby, not give her any ammunition to use against you later.

I'm sorry you're going through this.  A 20-year friendship is hard to lose -- so many marriages don't last that long!  I know you'll find alot of caring and helpful folks here to share with.  I've been here 6 months and I don't know what I would have done without BPD Family.  I hope you'll stick around and keep reading and posting!

[jmanvo2015]

Hi Haro8848,

Welcome.  I'm sorry to hear about the loss of this friendship and how it's causing you distress. I have a uBPD mother who often cut people out of her life when she was unable to handle a disappointment or what she perceived as a betrayal.  Unfortunately, it hasn't been until recently that I've realized that while I'm not a BPD, I did inherit this unhealthy way of coping with interpersonal relationships.

I can't provide advice, but maybe some insight? Friendships have always been a challenge for me because as a result of the emotional abuse and neglect I experienced from my uBPDm and NPD stepfather I was never allowed to express my needs or wants or to disagree with theirs.  If I did, I was vehemently lambasted and verbally abused.  So, I learned not to ask for anything, but to always try to be the good girl and this behavior transferred over into my friendships and romantic relationships.  If a friend did something I found offensive, insensitive or hurtful, I wouldn't say anything.  Now, because I was raised by a uBPD mom, you have to also understand that there's A LOT of "distorted thinking" associated with this mental illness and BPDs have unrealistic expectations of people and just generally a very negative and distrustful view of the world. 

So, I would allow what I perceived as minor offenses build slowly over time and my distorted and inherited way of thinking was constantly fueling the fire that this person was bad.  I was reacting to others the way my mother had reacted to me, so I was slowly demonizing the other person and letting all these minor hurts and perceived rejections build to the point I was convinced the other person was completely selfish and just using me or "playing" me as my mother would say.  I also did the social media "disconnect" thing to many friends before I began to understand what drove my behavior and how I had this inherited this dysfunctional way of relating to the world and the people in it.

So, back to your situation.  I am thinking if your friend is like me, she's caught in a "thought fugue" of your perceived offenses that are going round and round in her head and convincing her that you have done something terribly wrong (even if that's not the case) and that you don't appreciate or respect her.  That's how BPDs and people with BPD/NPD injuries like me think until we get help.

I doubt you've done anything as wrong as what she thinks, but when people like me and your friend are caught in these persnickety "thought fugues" the world is a very threatening place and people are only going to hurt and take advantage (this is the childhood abuse rearing it's ugly head).  So, to alleviate that stress we have to cut the person off.

I have gained enough self awareness that I don't cut people out as often as I used to and I'm more able to sit with feelings of discomfort and to assert my needs, but if your friend has not had any recovery she may just entirely cut you out of her life and there's not much you'll be able to do about it.  You can, however, defend yourself and your actions to mutual friends, so that they don't side with her against you and I recommend you do that.   You can try to get her to forgive you, but I suggest you give it time.  Wait about a month and let the anger she has associated with you subside.  If the friendship is really valuable to you and you don't want to lose it, you might have to do something you don't feel is fair, which is be the bigger person and make a grand gesture that really demonstrates your loyalty and love for her.  Maybe flowers with a note saying that you're terribly sorry and dont' want to lose her as a friend?

What I think you need to understand is that, whether she's right or not, in your BPDs friend's mind, you're another of the many people in her life that have or will hurt and disappoint her.  You have to convince her she's wrong if you value the friendship.

If you don't then don't do anything.  The truth is people like me and your friend with the BPD behaviors rarely "win" in the game of relationships. Ultimately, we only hurt ourselves and alienate friends that really care about us.  I have often gone back after cutting people out of my life and repaired these relationships and it is possible that you're friend might eventually, after some time has passed, seek you out again and ask for your forgiveness.



 

[Louise7777]

Hi Haro!

I have experienced something similar (started a thread on it long ago). I had an uBPD/ HPD friend and at some point I was just drained by her behaviour. She was also fun and had interesting insights but that wasnt enough for me to cope with the constant rages.

Our friendship was mostly through facebook (we met a couple of times only and communicated through phone and skype). I diminished contact until it became only through facebook and even so she raged at me on my wall... .She had some passive aggressive jabs at me on her wall, tried to make me feel guilty and then ganged up on me (she had 2000 friends on facebook).

So, after I unfriended her, I was very relieved, actually. She didnt try anything, Im sure she has other sources of N supply (although people get tired of her fast).

So, all this to tell you that I believe you shouldnt worry about her next moves. I think not reacting is the best, they love the drama and being the center of attention. As time goes by, she will realize you are not taking the bait and she will move on to another target. I was afraid myself she would rage, but she didnt. I slowly detached, first by not answering to her emails or comments (and when she finally raged in my wall I just deleted her comments).

I dont know if you have common friends, so thats the only thing that may keep you a bit concerned. But apart from that, I believe you will be very relieved in the end.

[jmanvo2015]

I'd like to add to what Louise said above.  One of the reasons my T insists I'm not a BPD is because I have a great deal of self awareness and work really, really hard to change bad behavior patterns I learned from my BPD mom.

However, a true BPD, the really worst kind, has little self awareness and no believe at all that they've behaved badly or wrong.  Further, they are completely convinced that they wouldn't have to behave the way they behave if YOU hadn't provoked that behavior.  So you are the problem and you are bad, bad, bad.

If you're friend is this kind of BPD and there's just no reasoning with her, then I agree it's best to cut the ties.  She might come around eventually, but with a really bad BPD that could be years, and in the meantime she could cause you a lot of pain and distress and it's not worth it because this is a very insidious mental illness. 

In any event, I hope it works out in your favor.

[Louise7777]

Jmanvo, what you said is very important. What I noticed in my uBPDs is a complete lack of accountability.

This particular uBPD/ HPD "friend" actually realizes that her behaviour is inappropriate. The thing is, she SAYS the words but her actions remain the same (selfish and self-centered). Maybe she´s high-functioning or she simply uses that to keep people engaged so she doesnt lose her N supply.

Id like to add that, given my experience, a friendship or r/s with a BPD is impossible. Impossible if you understand a r/s as a 2-way flow, receiving and giving. I was drained by them and on top of that, the lovely rages they throw regularly. I really dont have the patience to put up with people who are emotionally 3 year olds.

[haro8848]

Wow.  Thank you all so so much for the insight and info.  I have some more details that might actually be relevant or helpful in getting a full picture of the situation... .or not, but I'll give them to you all anyway and let you decide.

When the blow up first happened I spent literally MONTHS trying to apologize in one way or another.  I never actually admitted to having done anything wrong (since I don't believe that not living up to someone else's expectations qualifies as actually being cruel) but I tried to explain to her where I was coming from, that I had not being trying to intentionally hurt her.  I said I was sorry that it had come across that way and had repeatedly told her that she was my friend, that I valued and loved her.  During this whole time, she refused to speak to me directly - she would only text or email - and they were hands down some of the most hurtful messages I have ever received.  Some were just emotionally crushing in their meanness and would reduce me to sobs.  I couldn't understand why after 15 years of friendship, she was so unwilling to extend me a little grace and give me the benefit of the doubt.  Now I'm thinking that maybe it just isn't in her BPD nature be able to do that... .?  In any case, she eventually did agree to talk to me on the phone after about 8 months of this torture.  The call was nerve-wracking for me and probably the most tense conversation of my life.  By the time we hung up, she said things were fine, but things didn't feel "fine" to me, and given her behavior since, it's clear that they probably really weren't.

She's never really had any other female friends outside of other couples she and her husband may hang out with.  Her life is all about her and her family (parents, siblings, husband, and kids).  Outside of me, she's never had other friends in her photos.  I have never met any other friend of hers (which I didn't really think about until someone in my family mentioned that they found this odd).  Even her husband's family is no longer in contact with them because of their extreme negative interactions with her.  It's really sad... .

I would just also add that it's not mutual "friends" I'm concerned with, per se, since she really has none and all of my friends that she's met over the years are still mine (she's unfriended all of them as well).  What makes me sad aside from losing a friend is that I had become really close to her family as well.  She has two beautiful children and her husband is a great guy as well and I love them all.  I have no idea what she may or may not be telling them and am trying to prepare myself for the fact that I may never hear from any of them again.

Any way you slice it, this is painful.  The boundaries I've set and am trying to hold to definitely help and make it a little easier, but it's such an insane situation and REALLY difficult to explain to someone who hasn't had to go through it!

I appreciate all of your words and encouragement more than I can say.

[jmanvo2015]

Haro, I'm very sorry for you for this situation. Having a BPD mother, I know first-hand the pain and trauma that is caused by another human being just completely shutting you out and throwing all their shame and drama onto you. But, that's what this sounds like to me.  This situation, whether you believe it or not, has very little to do with you and everything to do with this friend's internal drama and barometer.  You have been incredibly kind, loving and understanding with her and I think you are realizing, as difficult as it is, that you need to let go.  It's possible from what I've read in your threads that this relationship is very hard for you to let go of because, perhaps, it is mimicking some other significant relationship in your life - maybe you had someone close to you in your childhood that was also a BPD or addict? - and you developed some co-dependency issues.  If that's the case, I've found the group Codependents Anonymous to be very helpful.

[haro8848]

Jmanvo, what you said is very important. What I noticed in my uBPDs is a complete lack of accountability.

This particular uBPD/ HPD "friend" actually realizes that her behaviour is inappropriate. The thing is, she SAYS the words but her actions remain the same (selfish and self-centered). Maybe she´s high-functioning or she simply uses that to keep people engaged so she doesnt lose her N supply.

What you said about accountability is very true... .  There's no one in her life who challenges her on her behavior.  She has her husband under her thumb, and to the rest of her family (her mother especially) she's the "golden child".  In other words, pretty much everyone else around her worships her which I think is how she likes it.  I'm the first one to really start setting boundaries and expressing when her behavior and treatment of me (and others) is unacceptable.  Clearly that's not gone over well.

Jmanvo - I don't think I'm suffering from codependency issues personally (thank god!), I'm just trying to process the loss of a 20 year friendship and finally found a group of people that understands the insanity I've been experiencing through the years!  Wish I had figured out she was BPD much earlier... .  Might still have been tough, but at least I wouldn't have been expecting normal reactions and her rages wouldn't have caught me so extremely off-guard!

[sparrowfarfrom home]

Hi haro,

Just wondering... .

What kind of friendship did you two have  before the boundary setting 2 yrs  ago?

Was she always this way, and you sort of slowly began  to wake up, or was it an abrupt crisis that started 2 yrs  ago and before that she was  normal?

20 yrs is a long time to be friends  with someone.  How long were there signs?

Sounds like you began to stand up for yourself  after along time of her thinking she was in control?

[funfunctional]

Hi there,

I do feel for you because a 20 year friendship is hard to lose.   Then again "is it worth it?".  You even know why she is doing all the disconnects?   

The use of the word volcano.  UGGGH.    Sent shivers up my spine.  I hear this term and others on this site and can related.  "Egg shell walking"   "explosive"     "drama"    "stirring the pot"    "causing trouble".

I think you have to decide what it is beside length of time in the friendship that is making you feel bad about this friend backing away from you.   Also,  why IS she backing away?    Is it to invoke response and if so "what did you do?".  You may have done nothing.  She may be "all by herself" coming up with feeling rejected.  So difficult to know.

Good luck in what you decide to do.