The Rage of 1000 Suns

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

So something in me snapped... i hate her. I went from all these glorious delusions of love to tonite just vengeful malice that is consuming me. Im done feeling "sorry" for the poor waif! Shes so delusional if she think i didnt see what she did! She totally used me for a need then put me in a situation where she could hide from what she "promised" which was to actually talk to me about some things. Had her friends around so i couldnt talk to her alone. Then goes as far to say she "feels bad"... too bad youd need empathy to achieve such emotional introspection! Then says "we should just talk sometime" and "get coffee or something soon". Oh really after you blatantly ignored my last offer until i met a need for you! Sometime, eh... like maybe when you and youre bf are fighting and your lonely and "need" someone to triangulate? Then she goes as far as to talk to me about her ___ty living situation. Then asks me about mine in what i think was hopes of using me for an apartment! But im glad i dissapointed her by telling her im living with my parents. I know because she didnt respond because im not "useful". I finally realized... she never loved me. She does this to everyone. Nothing she did for me was "special" its just another manipulation to keep attachments. I witnessed it in our "meet up"... she did this thing to one her "friends" that she always did to me when i was sad... i thought it was something she only did for me... it honestly feels like she just twisted the knife again coming to this realization. Oh and the big reason she apparently broke up with me was to focus on her sick mom... when i asked her how her mom was doing she gave me this odd look. I kept looking at her confused and finally she says "idk". I was like "what do you mean idk?" The staring continued. She finally says she hates her and that shes living with her gma whos "mean" to her. Like are you ___ing kidding me! I think the final straw may have been broken... but maybe im letting my emotions consume my judgement. Guess ill see tomorrow if this actually sticks. 

[Chasing_Ghosts]

So something in me snapped... i hate her. I went from all these glorious delusions of love to tonite just vengeful malice that is consuming me. Im done feeling "sorry" for the poor waif! Shes so delusional if she think i didnt see what she did! She totally used me for a need then put me in a situation where she could hide from what she "promised" which was to actually talk to me about some things. Had her friends around so i couldnt talk to her alone. Then goes as far to say she "feels bad"... too bad youd need empathy to achieve such emotional introspection! Then says "we should just talk sometime" and "get coffee or something soon". Oh really after you blatantly ignored my last offer until i met a need for you! Sometime, eh... like maybe when you and youre bf are fighting and your lonely and "need" someone to triangulate? Then she goes as far as to talk to me about her ___ty living situation. Then asks me about mine in what i think was hopes of using me for an apartment! But im glad i dissapointed her by telling her im living with my parents. I know because she didnt respond because im not "useful". I finally realized... she never loved me. She does this to everyone. Nothing she did for me was "special" its just another manipulation to keep attachments. I witnessed it in our "meet up"... she did this thing to one her "friends" that she always did to me when i was sad... i thought it was something she only did for me... it honestly feels like she just twisted the knife again coming to this realization. Oh and the big reason she apparently broke up with me was to focus on her sick mom... when i asked her how her mom was doing she gave me this odd look. I kept looking at her confused and finally she says "idk". I was like "what do you mean idk?" The staring continued. She finally says she hates her and that shes living with her gma whos "mean" to her. Like are you ___ing kidding me! I think the final straw may have been broken... but maybe im letting my emotions consume my judgement. Guess ill see tomorrow if this actually sticks. 

[goldylamont]

Chasing_Ghosts anger is natural when you finally start to come to terms of who you are dealing with. your rage and anger are trying to force you to establish your boundaries, to separate yourself from the abuser so that you can heal. it's likely you ignored or repressed these emotions before so now they are all coming out full force.

do not feel bad or guilty for having anger. it is a furious, firey energy. the art is to make sure you don't hurt yourself or others with misplaced anger. you can no longer repress this emotion. likewise it's vitally important that you don't express it inappropriately. you must get it out, but don't unleash it on others and please, please don't unleash it on yourself.

i highly suggest starting a regiment of physical exercise to allow this energy to flow out in a healthy way. the more active and exhausting the better -- running, working out, swimming, martial arts, etc. and when you have rage and angry words, express them here in order to protect yourself from saying something that may not serve you well.

this is a very tough place to be in but it means that you are further along than before when you were living in fantasy land. learn to honor your anger and let it do it's job. if you separate yourself and give yourself the boundaries it wants then you will notice it decrease over time. and do something physical focusing on this energy to let it out. if not you'll just repress it and it will come out in other toxic ways to hurt you and others.

[Blimblam]

They always twist the knife. 

Im sorry dude.

[Blimblam]

Chasing.

All the hopefulness and all the anger is a part of you. Part of the whole.

[ajr5679]

Chasing_Ghosts : when I was reading your post. I swear I could of wrote the same dam thing. The first time I was with her I allowed her to take everything from me . I went through a nerves brake down because I allow her to abuse me . for some reason allowed her to come back into my life after a year and half out of the hell. then the next time she left me and turned into the devil I got so mad I would not allow her to do the same thing she did to me last time. I was so mad and I am still really mad . I know now she never loved me. I really believe high functioning BPD that is a weif is a female psychopath. I don`t know if they even know how to love. 

[SpringInMyStep]

oh I can totally relate! I was there until just last week. I say go with it... .work it out here and in a journal if you do that sorta thing. just get it all out and it'll eventually fade.

[christoff522]

So something in me snapped... i hate her. I went from all these glorious delusions of love to tonite just vengeful malice that is consuming me. Im done feeling "sorry" for the poor waif! Shes so delusional if she think i didnt see what she did! She totally used me for a need then put me in a situation where she could hide from what she "promised" which was to actually talk to me about some things. Had her friends around so i couldnt talk to her alone. Then goes as far to say she "feels bad"... too bad youd need empathy to achieve such emotional introspection! Then says "we should just talk sometime" and "get coffee or something soon". Oh really after you blatantly ignored my last offer until i met a need for you! Sometime, eh... like maybe when you and youre bf are fighting and your lonely and "need" someone to triangulate? Then she goes as far as to talk to me about her ___ty living situation. Then asks me about mine in what i think was hopes of using me for an apartment! But im glad i dissapointed her by telling her im living with my parents. I know because she didnt respond because im not "useful". I finally realized... she never loved me. She does this to everyone. Nothing she did for me was "special" its just another manipulation to keep attachments. I witnessed it in our "meet up"... she did this thing to one her "friends" that she always did to me when i was sad... i thought it was something she only did for me... it honestly feels like she just twisted the knife again coming to this realization. Oh and the big reason she apparently broke up with me was to focus on her sick mom... when i asked her how her mom was doing she gave me this odd look. I kept looking at her confused and finally she says "idk". I was like "what do you mean idk?" The staring continued. She finally says she hates her and that shes living with her gma whos "mean" to her. Like are you ___ing kidding me! I think the final straw may have been broken... but maybe im letting my emotions consume my judgement. Guess ill see tomorrow if this actually sticks. 

Don't worry my friend. We all feel this way at times. I hate the pushing and pulling. But the truth is the only reason we feel like this is because of the lack of self-control we have. It's actually self-hatred and and anger for ourselves we're projecting onto them.

Right now I feel lost, she's not spoken to me all day, I have no idea where I stand, and I just want to grab her and kiss her. But it's pathetic, If I continue like this, knowing she's mentally disordered, I'll lose her forever, and frankly I don't want to do that. But I also want to find myself, have some strength within, and be able to stand up to her - only then can she respect me.

Don't take anything she's saying personally, most of it's just utter insanity, it's just how she deals with stuff. Her life will always be drama, she can't ever get too close to anyone because it causes her to have all her childhood feelings brought back, imagine the worst pain you've ever felt (outside of this relationship), and imagine that everytime you get close to someone - thats how you start to feel. Don't hate her for something she can't control, all you can do is deal with what you can control - yourself. I understand what a horrendously painful journey this will be.

[JonnyKrunch]

... but maybe im letting my emotions consume my judgement.

yeah, but maybe you aren't.

Many times when I have felt that kind of anger it was easier to see what she

was doing to me. I remember times when I wish I could have kept that anger, kept that

hate I was feeling, because then it would have been so much easier to end the relationship.

Because I have known for a long time it needed ending. But of course after I calmed down,

same old doubts would creep in, the same insecurities, and I would go back to my normal self,

and the cycle would repeat.

[Chasing_Ghosts]

Thnks for everyones responses i really appreciate the support and words of introspection youve all shared.

Chasing.

All the hopefulness and all the anger is a part of you. Part of the whole.

Your right Blim. And through meditation im trying my best to fit all these pieces back but it seems like everytime i get close to to putting one piece of the whole in another piece appears to be added. I suppose much like a rubix cube it will take time to get all the pieces in alignment. A journey im willing to take to find the peace within.

Don't worry my friend. We all feel this way at times. I hate the pushing and pulling. But the truth is the only reason we feel like this is because of the lack of self-control we have. It's actually self-hatred and and anger for ourselves we're projecting onto them.

Right now I feel lost, she's not spoken to me all day, I have no idea where I stand, and I just want to grab her and kiss her. But it's pathetic, If I continue like this, knowing she's mentally disordered, I'll lose her forever, and frankly I don't want to do that. But I also want to find myself, have some strength within, and be able to stand up to her - only then can she respect me.

Don't take anything she's saying personally, most of it's just utter insanity, it's just how she deals with stuff. Her life will always be drama, she can't ever get too close to anyone because it causes her to have all her childhood feelings brought back, imagine the worst pain you've ever felt (outside of this relationship), and imagine that everytime you get close to someone - thats how you start to feel. Don't hate her for something she can't control, all you can do is deal with what you can control - yourself. I understand what a horrendously painful journey this will be.

I couldntve said it better myself christoff. Im doing much better today realizing and balancing my center within the empathy i have for the girl i love. I realize self restraint and patience are another part of my whole im lacking in aligning within. As i work on myself so too will things fall into place with us as she needs to be this way to cope. And any adverse reactions will as you said push her away. I must be calm patient and as positive as possible about her. Let her do what he needs to hopefully become comfortable enough around me and let me seem strong and in control to gain her trust and respect. Not be a weak beta like the rest of her orbiters who pine,blow up her phone,and "need" her... Theres a right and wrong way to a borderline girls heart and im realizing the path slowly but surely.

In the end i realize that i will have moments of anger but that i need to feel them and realize that it is in turn an emotion that is to be felt and passed on. The only helpful emotion in all this that i feel centers me is empathy, pure and simple. It makes my love unconditonal and selfless. Keeps the connection alive. And i believe thats all she deserves in a world that has proved to be such the opposite in her life.

[Blimblam]

Feel everything fully just remember what you feel when your angry is a projection of your own self te things you see that anger you is a part of you too.

[goldylamont]

I couldntve said it better myself christoff. Im doing much better today realizing and balancing my center within the empathy i have for the girl i love. I realize self restraint and patience are another part of my whole im lacking in aligning within. As i work on myself so too will things fall into place with us as she needs to be this way to cope. And any adverse reactions will as you said push her away. I must be calm patient and as positive as possible about her. Let her do what he needs to hopefully become comfortable enough around me and let me seem strong and in control to gain her trust and respect. Not be a weak beta like the rest of her orbiters who pine,blow up her phone,and "need" her... Theres a right and wrong way to a borderline girls heart and im realizing the path slowly but surely.

In the end i realize that i will have moments of anger but that i need to feel them and realize that it is in turn an emotion that is to be felt and passed on. The only helpful emotion in all this that i feel centers me is empathy, pure and simple. It makes my love unconditonal and selfless. Keeps the connection alive. And i believe thats all she deserves in a world that has proved to be such the opposite in her life.

we had a discussion recently on empathy and i looked up the definition to better understand it's meaning in relation to how we tend to use it:

empathy:

1. the imaginative projection of a subjective state into an object so that the object appears to be infused with it

2. the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also :  the capacity for this

Chasing_Ghosts, when you mention empathy, are you doing #1 (projecting your subjective reality onto her, so she appears to be infused with it) rather than #2, which is how most people use the word? If you believe the empathy you feel for her is more like the 2nd definition, can you explain what emotions you are having now that originated from her (not yourself being projected onto her)?

[freedom33]

I must be calm patient and as positive as possible about her. Let her do what he needs to hopefully become comfortable enough around me and let me seem strong and in control to gain her trust and respect. Not be a weak beta like the rest of her orbiters who pine,blow up her phone,and "need" her... Theres a right and wrong way to a borderline girls heart and im realizing the path slowly but surely.

Chasing Ghosts - I will attempt to call it as I see it. Please correct if I am wrong but here is what I read between the lines about the situation and the psychological condition you seem to be in. Your ego and masculinity have been terribly wounded. As a result you are immersed into a game of proving yourself. This is a game that you can't win. Even if you manage to contain things the end result would still be the same. The relationship will still end with the only difference that you would be you ending it instead.  :)oes it make any difference? There is no winning here. No letter of the alphabet whether Alpha, Beta, Gamma or Omega will stay with her. Everyone takes a beating. Why would you do that to yourself unless there was an equivalent and complementary pathology e.g. co-dependency, NPD? Eventually most sane people will leave unless there are children or other issues that tie them together with the pwBPD. You do not have that so praise the lord and move on.

[Chasing_Ghosts]

I must be calm patient and as positive as possible about her. Let her do what he needs to hopefully become comfortable enough around me and let me seem strong and in control to gain her trust and respect. Not be a weak beta like the rest of her orbiters who pine,blow up her phone,and "need" her... Theres a right and wrong way to a borderline girls heart and im realizing the path slowly but surely.

Chasing Ghosts - I may be wrong but I will attempt to call it as I see it. Here is what I read between the lines about the situation and the psychological condition you seem to be in. Your ego and masculinity have been terribly wounded. As a result you are immersed into a game of proving yourself. This is a game that you can't win. Even if you manage to contain things the end result would still be the same. The relationship will still end with the only difference that would be you ending it instead. Does it make any difference? This will also be equally painful. There is no winning here. No letter of the alphabet whether Alpha, Beta, Gamma or Omega will eventually stay with her. Everyone takes a beating. Why would you do that to yourself unless there was an equivalent and complementary pathology e.g. NPD?

Funny you should bring the last part up. Im diagnosed NPD... so even though im in recovery trying to work on it i kinda feel like were compatible in a weird way. I too can get engulfed just like her. I fear getting too close as well. So i understand where shes coming from it just took a while to realize how similar our pathologies are and the dynamic it entailed. I now through therapy and meditation am realizing my behaviors which is the next step in controlling them. And im realizing she senses this about me and it draws her to me. I beleive were suited for each other i just have to be the one to be strong for her.I relied too much on her to complete me and i realize that must come from within. My inner anima is very wounded and scattered from my childhood trauma which in turn also shaped my dNPD behaviors. I do love and empathize unlike alot of NPDs because i realize that it is freedom. Hate and selfishness keep us trapped in a prison of our own device one that i found myself trapped in for a long time. Also I am not afraid to admit my diagnosis which my psychologist finds very unique as most Ns would never admit a flaw. I know i have alot of flaws i need to work on especially with my interpersonal relationship skills and attachment issues. I need to find a balance within myself and it will take time. I truly do believe we are meant to be and if anyone in the world can understand her inner struggle my empathy does. Honestly it only makes me love her more. I know what its like in that dark place and i want to be there and not abandon her like everyone else. Im not trying to save her... I just want her to know that im there for her no matter what unlike everyone else in her life. "No matter how many nails we put in each others back, weve always got each others backs cuz were that lucky"-Eminem.   

[Blimblam]

You keep saying "her". The way I see it is you are projecting the feminin aspects of your self onto her.  That it is your own self that needs saving and that you seek to reconnect to but that you are projecting this onto you your ex.

Carl Jung and the feminine archetype.

www.youtu.be/m12soJiCPcc

[freedom33]

I am not a psychologist but my opinion is that you are not a NPD i.e. the full blown disorder. I can see that you have insight and as your T said NPDs never admit any wrongdoing. You have practically taken everything on your shoulders... .We all have traits of everything. I have traits of Cluster B i.e. NPD and BPD (e.g. fear of abandonment), and Cluster A e.g. Schizotypal traits and Cluster C (some avoidant and OCD). A thought that just came to me is that perhaps having a mix of traits of complementary and compensatory disorders may assist in balancing the individual attitude.

At any rate - NPD or not it looks to me that you are hurt and are trying to hard to be the perfect man for her. This is a narcissistic wound allright but it's not a disorder. People that get involved intimately with a pwBPD get a narcissistic wound eventually. I would be worried that one really has a disorder if one was made out of stone and was never wounded in such a rs. NPD or not a rs with a pwBPD can be a medicine to bring us back to ourselves. And all medicines if taken for too long and at great quantities become poisonous. Take it easy and keep away from her.

[goldylamont]

Chasing_Ghosts i felt the same way as f33 and blimblam. this is why i asked the question above about your thoughts on empathy--what's your take on this?

i surely could not tell if you were npd or not as we have never met. so i don't mean to suggest that you are not if you feel you are. however everything i've read from your writing doesn't feel narcissistic at all. i feel you are codependent and putting your ex's needs before your own (the opposite of what an npd would behave). not saying that an npd wouldn't be hurt by the interaction as a pwBPD can make someone with npd qualities face their own public persona which is equally devasting. just that what you are writing doesn't 'feel' like it's coming from a narcissist.

in any case, think about if you are projecting your desires with your empathy rather than actually feeling what she feels. if you felt how she felt and were in alignment with her energies, you would be seeing lots of other women right now, probably would have cheated on her multiple times when you were together and would show zero remorse if somehow she contracted an std because of it. is this really how you behave and feel? perhaps you are more different than it feels to you at the moment. all of this is incredibly tough to deal with, and even more difficult to break away from.

if you haven't had a chance it's a good idea to go over the Lessons posted here as well:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.msg1331264#msg1331264

2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel

If you believe that your BPD partner was experiencing the relationship in the same way that you were or that they are feeling the same way you do right now, don’t count on it. This will only serve to confuse you and make it harder to understand what is really happening. When any relationship breaks down, it’s often because the partners are on a different “page” – but much more so when your partner suffers with borderline personality disorder traits. Unknown to you, there were likely significant periods of shame, fear, disappointment, resentment, and anger rising from below the surface during the entire relationship. What you have seen lately is not new - rather it’s a culmination of feelings that have been brewing in the relationship.

[Artisan]

Let us stop the new age psycho babble about anger being a projection.

Please do not make judgments and assumptions about what is behind a persons emotional state. It does no good for any of us.

Anger at being mistreated is not a projection. It's natural and healthy.

If somebody punches me, I am going to be angry. I'm not Christ.

Denying my anger and frustration is part of what kept me stuck for so long.

Yes, some of it is anger at myself for allowing myself to be treated like a whipping post.

Some of it is anger at God for making such a person who I love, and who is anything but normal.

Most of the anger is directed at the person who mistreated me. It's a natural defensive mechanism, and totally healthy, and not projection.

Anger, fear and aggression DO NOT LEAD TO THE DARK SIDE. Once faced and integrated, anger fear and aggression is a path to healing and liberation.

[goldylamont]

Anger, fear and aggression DO NOT LEAD TO THE DARK SIDE. Once faced and integrated, anger fear and aggression is a path to healing and liberation.

i agree with you absolutely Artisan. if you read some of my previous posts i think you will see that i'm one of the biggest proponents of the invaluable necessity of healthy anger.

i think you are misreading my posts, seeing it in reverse? i'm not at all saying that Chasing_Ghosts is projecting his anger onto his ex--quite the contrary. He isn't able to stay angry at her long enough (in my opinion) to set up boundaries strong enough to break away. this is just my opinion and what i see--apologies Chasing_Ghosts if this sounds presumptive.

Artisan my argument is that Chasing_Ghosts is projecting his own personal 'empathy', not anger onto his ex. I am doubting that his ex has the same empathy for him as he does her, although he seems to feel she does (again, just my opinion from what he's written about the situation). Please re-read my responses above to see if it makes more sense in this context. I totally agree with what you're saying.

[Blimblam]

Feel everything fully just remember what you feel when your angry is a projection of your own self te things you see that anger you is a part of you too.

I believe artisan is referring to this post.  


There is nothing wrong with anger I agree the anger is healthy and repressing it isn't healthy. I too repressed a lot of anger in my relationship but large I part to being so deep in the fog.  

What I mean is the image he has of his ex is a part of him.  Often the anger is at oneself for "accepting" the behavior.  Or "not being strong enough" to put up with the abuse.

What I am a proponent of is integrating all aspects of the self.  


What I am getting at is recognizing ones own projection.  We all did a lot of projecting onto our exs.  That's why we feel like we need them. While what we need is ourself. Fully integrated light and dark.

We get angry often at what we see as weak in ourselves outside ourselves. Or we feel the need to rescue an aspect of ourself we in another.  

The borderline with all their mirroring a self objectification is the ultimate extension of the self.  And their ability to project into through projective identification  means they literally become part of us and reflect our innermost desires.  So however we feel about our exs we do quite litteraly feel about a part of ourself.

Often what i say is confusing.  Especially the concepts relates to projective identification.  I really believe a thorough investigation of projective identification and all that it entails is when things will become clear and the solution to many PDs.  It's not easy and often terrifying.