Where to go from here...

[MaroonLiquid]

Here is my previous thread... .Hard Day, Cont'd... .https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=235045.0

Anyway, should I give her another chance to meet and discuss or let it go?  I don't want to be taken advantage of, but at the same time, I believe she wanted to see me and can't admit it.  I feel like the only thing she knows to do with her insecurities and pain is to hurt me and use me.  It is her default defense mechanism.  Don't want it to continue, but I am at a loss after our conversation last night... .I don't want to enable anymore, but want to show love unconditionally... .Again, at a loss... .

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MaroonLiquid]

Read your post in the other thread... .She hung up on me... .Never said she wouldn't meet me, but accused me of being delusional and crazy after I spoke truth and she hung up.  Thanks FF... .

[MaroonLiquid]

Texted her and told her I would be there (place specified) at a certain time.  no response.  We'll see if she shows... .

[formflier]

  I spoke truth and she hung up. 

Do you think speaking the truth is validating or invalidating to her?

[MaroonLiquid]

Ok formflier, let's talk about me for bit.  For the past 10 months I have been seeing a secular counselor and about 3 months ago, I saw a Christian deliverance counselor for 2, 9 hour days that dealt with my childhood issues with my parents and past relationships.  Over the last year and a half, I have lost about 75 lbs to get down to about 220 lbs.  I realized that I was extremely co-dependent and "needed" someone else to validate me.  I also realized that I was attracted to strong-willed women (first wife was an extreme narcissist) because of my mother and lack of father.  He was/is a sociopathic narcissist who went to prison for two years when I was 14.  I was never validated much as a child and grew up in a performance based home (athletics, grades, etc).  If I didn't make my parents look good, there was hell to pay. After going through the counseling for two days and living alone for four months, I have dealt with most of that.  I realize now I don't "need" someone for validation. (God validates me) and understand how that attracts unhealthy mates.  I realize that I never put God first (have now), and am a lot happier and more at peace with who I am and with my life.  Do I love my wife and want it to work, ABSOLUTELY!  My relationship with Christ is no 1 though because I ascribe to His Word that says, "Seek Ye first the Kibdom of God and ALL these things shall be added unto you.  If she decided to do something different, I am OK without her.  She never thought I would be and I think that is one thing that scares her to death.  Anyway, I have six amazing kids, 3 of which are mine biologically and the others I claim as if they were biological.  I work full time, go to school to pursue my dream of becoming a Division 1 (FBS) College Football coach and our dream is to have a rehabilitation horse ranch for underprivileged and abused boys.

[formflier]

  For the past 10 months I have been seeing a secular counselor 

Can you tell me how often you see your secular counselor?

What kinds of stuff do you guys talk about?  Work on?

[MaroonLiquid]

  For the past 10 months I have been seeing a secular counselor 

Can you tell me how often you see your secular counselor?

What kinds of stuff do you guys talk about?  Work on?

I have been seeing a secular counselor for about a year for once a month.  We worked on me a lot for the first 7 months and then when things started with my wife, it has been on how to deal with this situation as a whole.

[MaroonLiquid]

I forgot to say that I am seeing my secular counselor on Wednesday... .

[formflier]

 

Thoughts of changing anything that secular counselor and you are working on.

Look at the entire dynamic of what you have been learning here... .and what you have been learning there... .is it balanced?  Could you benefit from more time with secular counselor?  Less time? 

What do you think your weakest area is right now?  or the place where you need the most growth?

[MaroonLiquid]

Thoughts of changing anything that secular counselor and you are working on.

Look at the entire dynamic of what you have been learning here... .and what you have been learning there... .is it balanced?  Could you benefit from more time with secular counselor?  Less time? 

What do you think your weakest area is right now?  or the place where you need the most growth?

I definitely want to work on better boundaries.  In the past, I have set "soft" boundaries with the fear of losing her.  I am much better at it now due to the fact that I love (not narcissistically) and believe in myself more and know that God truly loves me and is for me even with all my faults.  After Christian counseling, 95% of that "fear" is gone.  I was a person up until a few months ago that made 95% of my choices in life out of fear.  My deepening relationship with Christ and living by myself has helped tremendously with this.  I actually know that I'm a good man, a good husband and a good father.  I realize that her issues are not my issues and she has to want to get help.  I can't do it for her.  Used to be "under the influence" of the thought process "if I love her enough, she will see that and change".  I realize now she doesn't think anyone can love her.  It's just a matter now of balancing two things: showing my love for her by being that stabilizing force and protecting myself.  That line is where I still get blurred sometimes.

As far as what I've been learning both places, it is balanced.  He is a specialist in BPD (didn't know that until I started talking with him about the issues my wife was showing at the beginning of our separation) and also was married to a pwBPD.  As far as seeing him less or more, I think once a month (at the moment) is about right.  Especially now since I've been out of the day to day FOG and drama of her "stuff".  It helps with the "maintaining" of myself and the emotions of this ordeal.  I wish I was more honest with him during the first 7 months because I might have learned things sooner.  But that is human nature: we don't deal with trouble until it's "trouble". 

One weakness I have that I need to work on is getting caught up in the engulfment each time we have started talking again. 

[formflier]

One weakness I have that I need to work on is getting caught up in the engulfment each time we have started talking again. 

Have you discussed this with Secular counselor?  Good that he is up on BPD... .

I recommend telling him your last interactions in detail... .and ask for some intensive coaching on the best way to interact.

We'll never know if you had the engulfment under control... .how the last interactions would have worked out.

But... .if the engulfment isn't brought under control... .what is the likelihood of success in future interactions?

Again... .awesome you have a great BPD resource in person... .I would make use of that... .

Let's not be posting months from now... that you wished you had handled engulfment earlier... .now is the time.

[MaroonLiquid]

One weakness I have that I need to work on is getting caught up in the engulfment each time we have started talking again. 

Have you discussed this with Secular counselor?  Good that he is up on BPD... .

I recommend telling him your last interactions in detail... .and ask for some intensive coaching on the best way to interact.

We'll never know if you had the engulfment under control... .how the last interactions would have worked out.

But... .if the engulfment isn't brought under control... .what is the likelihood of success in future interactions?

Again... .awesome you have a great BPD resource in person... .I would make use of that... .

Let's not be posting months from now... that you wished you had handled engulfment earlier... .now is the time.

Not yet, planned on discussing it tomorrow with him.  That week and a half we spent together six weeks ago scared her obviously because she told me she didn't want me to leave again.  I realize now that I need to not jump right back in full throttle.  I have to keep my own boundaries.  I thought it would help her to know that I wasn't going anywhere, but I realized now it was "smothering".  I know that she needs me, but she also needs to deal with her own stuff.

[MaroonLiquid]

Today I have counseling with my secular T for myself.  I'm actually glad it's today so that I can have some fresh perspective on how to handle the engulfment issues.  Then our first counseling session together next week.  I pray she follows through.  Should I make a list of things she has said and done over the years (especially the last three months) that show her instability just in case she tries to make it all about me?  Should I expect that she'll try and make it all about me as a diversion tactic?  Just don't know what to expect... .

[formflier]

Today I have counseling with my secular T for myself.  I'm actually glad it's today so that I can have some fresh perspective on how to handle the engulfment issues.  Then our first counseling session together next week.  I pray she follows through.  Should I make a list of things she has said and done over the years (especially the last three months) that show her instability just in case she tries to make it all about me?  Should I expect that she'll try and make it all about me as a diversion tactic?  Just don't know what to expect... .

Don't think of counseling as a place to "prove" this or that.  Remember... .pwBPD traits is listening... .it didn't work outside of counseling... .most likely won't work in counseling.

Proving is negative... .describing what a positive interaction looks like in the future is positive.  Don't mix those up.

So... "I feel loved when we are able to talk properly about events... ."  you can define talking properly. 

don't reference old events to describe the new... .future event... .

Most likely she will try to go for the past... .remember things differently... .etc etc... .  Remember... ."that's her opinion... "

Don't agree... .don't disagree... .you can "be sorry she feels that way... ." then move along to a positive topic.

Making lists of wrongdoing generally sets off a pwBPD... .they will remember different.

Remember... .the battleground is NOT the facts.  It's their feelings and them being able to regulate those properly.

I can't stress enough... .the battleground is not "winning" the war of facts... .

[MaroonLiquid]

Today I have counseling with my secular T for myself.  I'm actually glad it's today so that I can have some fresh perspective on how to handle the engulfment issues.  Then our first counseling session together next week.  I pray she follows through.  Should I make a list of things she has said and done over the years (especially the last three months) that show her instability just in case she tries to make it all about me?  Should I expect that she'll try and make it all about me as a diversion tactic?  Just don't know what to expect... .

Don't think of counseling as a place to "prove" this or that.  Remember... .pwBPD traits is listening... .it didn't work outside of counseling... .most likely won't work in counseling.

Proving is negative... .describing what a positive interaction looks like in the future is positive.  Don't mix those up.

So... "I feel loved when we are able to talk properly about events... ."  you can define talking properly. 

don't reference old events to describe the new... .future event... .

Most likely she will try to go for the past... .remember things differently... .etc etc... .  Remember... ."that's her opinion... "

Don't agree... .don't disagree... .you can "be sorry she feels that way... ." then move along to a positive topic.

Making lists of wrongdoing generally sets off a pwBPD... .they will remember different.

Remember... .the battleground is NOT the facts.  It's their feelings and them being able to regulate those properly.

I can't stress enough... .the battleground is not "winning" the war of facts... .

Fair enough.  How does it go to get to talking about regulating emotions properly.  If all she is doing is throwing up her version of the "past", then that is all that is going to be talked about, correct?

[formflier]

Fair enough.  How does it go to get to talking about regulating emotions properly.  If all she is doing is throwing up her version of the "past", then that is all that is going to be talked about, correct?

Let the counselor deal with that. 

If you have a different version... and get asked... .by all means... .tell your version.  Let the counselor figure out emotions need to be regulated... .don't go in "accusing" her of not regulating them.

So... if asked if you agree with events... .I would recommend... ."I have different memories... ."  instead of my wife is wrong... .

The counselor will pick up on this... .especially if you are being reasonable and she is accusing... .doing the BPD thing.

Also be ready for a reasonable wife to show up.  In that case... .make whatever progress you can... .be ready for her to switch at any moment.  Don't take bait if she switches from reasonable to BPD...