Sorting out last week's mess

[maxsterling]

She's back to "baseline".  For her, that means slternately getting excited about some far fetched future plan, then getting stressed about it never happening, and back to depression and calling me up at work "just to hear my voice."  We have a houseguest now - her former AA sponsor from a few years ago.  I think that helps her not be alone, but I see potential that could create some new problems down the road.

Me?  Well, I still feel emotionally numb, and get complete shut-down anxiety if I try to think about anything long term. I have been finding myself sometimes just wanting to cry, and other times just staring off to space.  I've also been feeling much more frustrated with things like traffic and lines and the public.  That's not like me.  The weird thing is that I don't feel especially hurt by the things she said or did during the outburst. 

Today is a couples T appointment.  My thoughts are to avoid talking about my feelings - I just don't think it would do any good for me or her to put that out there.  I think I need to work on them on my own with my own T and support system.  I just see where right now, me saying that I am scared or feel numb or hurt or whatever is going to do any good for our relationship.  Saying things like that could trigger abandonment fears and another episode at a time when I desperately need clear head space.   And I just can't think about where it is going right now - I'm that shut down.  I can work on that on my own with my T, friends, alanon, here whatever.

I think I just need to focus on somehow persuading her to the importance of her getting more therapy.  Let her doctors handle her issues... .

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

I think you and I share something here, max... .and I'm not doing very well at it myself.

I really need to dig into what is important to me--and not involved with my wife at all. I've let myself get sucked into her life, with not enough that I value for myself here.

She generates so much heat and light that it is very compelling... .doesn't matter whether it is good stuff or chaos, either one is compelling.

What do you think?

[waverider]

I agree you can get too stuck into helping, supporting them, even just monitoring and keeping abreast of what is happening it drains you. Everything you do for you is too centered around how they are doing.

You lose your own self ambition.

i would focus on not persuading her to do anything, just let her be, and stop worrying about it. The effort you are putting in is probably not bringing great returns.

[KateCat]

i would focus on not persuading her to do anything, just let her be, and stop worrying about it.

I think your survival may literally depend on following this course.

[maxsterling]

I agree with the advice, 100%.

The issue is, I feel BOMBARDED with her issues.  Helping her with her drama is not compelling - I want to be away from it.  I NEED to be away from it.  I woke up at 4 am again with a bunch of restlessness and anxiety.  I'm sure it is tied in with what happened a week ago.  I did fall back asleep, and when I did get up, I took a shower, cried in the shower, took care of myself, got ready for work, and when I came back into the bedroom she needed validation because she had bad dreams, didn't want to do the things she said she was going to do today.  I just have no energy for that. 

While I know I need to not worry/fix about her drama - it's hard to distance myself from it.  Even the T last night didn't seem to understand my need for boundaries regarding abuse.  Me:  I have to get myself away from it in order to not be hurt.  T:  She needs you to be present and communicate with her.  You have to de-personalize it and stay there, and not go too far away.

I see three options for creating space:

1) Mind my own business, validate her needs when I have the energy.  Let her rant and take her own course.

2) Persuade her to get more help for herself and hope she can find something to help with her issues.

3) End it.

[KateCat]

I find some (you know, Freudian "unconscious" significance in the order you've placed the three options and think you may be ready to do them in exactly the order they appear here. Looks like a really solid plan that has in fact been brewing in your mind for months now, as you have conscientiously and fully tried other options.

The fact that you are feeling your own pain now is, well, great.   Kind of like a fever breaking.

[Grey Kitty]

I see three options for creating space:

1) Mind my own business, validate her needs when I have the energy.  Let her rant and take her own course.

I think that's the advice you've been given that you say you agree with 100%

2) Persuade her to get more help for herself and hope she can find something to help with her issues.

Trying to persuade her... .or worrying about her decisions is exactly the trainwreck you are living right now, max.

Time to just say "I cannot fix her. I've barely got the strength to support her. I'm going to give her the space to work it out herself. If my 'help' was actually interfering, it will be out of the way now." (to yourself, or your diary... .saying it to her won't help anything!)

3) End it.

You or she may do this at any time.

Just the same... .the work YOU need to do to take care of yourself inside this relationship... .won't go away if you leave the r/s. You might as well do the work now, rather than find yourself jumping into a re-run next time!

[KateCat]

I agree with Grey Kitty that "persuading" her to seek therapy or to continue it is not working. But handing crises over to therapists--and any of her lay counselors and friends who are willing--is a fine idea. They too can practice protecting themselves from overinvolvement.

[waverider]

The issue is, I feel BOMBARDED with her issues.  Helping her with her drama is not compelling - I want to be away from it.  I NEED to be away from it.  I woke up at 4 am again with a bunch of restlessness and anxiety.  I'm sure it is tied in with what happened a week ago.  I did fall back asleep, and when I did get up, I took a shower, cried in the shower, took care of myself, got ready for work, and when I came back into the bedroom she needed validation because she had bad dreams, didn't want to do the things she said she was going to do today.  I just have no energy for that. 

I went through this for a long time,. The resultant sleep deprivation doesn't help. I ended up on Valium just to get sleep.

You need something else that takes up your own time and thoughts, centering out your own life to balance your problems, rather than how am I going to deal with her problems. Her problems are not going to go away in a hurry.

At the moment life is all about work and her dramas. You are being squeezed out of your right to be you.

[formflier]

 

Max,

What is the action plan to address the big drama that she just went through.  I realize that you can't "force it"... .but there is a balance between forcing it and being quiet about it. 

Bombarding with issues... .what does moving out of the way of bombardment look like?

Can you tie this to her taking action to step up treatment?

So... if she wants you to listen to all sorts of issues... .but refuses to go to treatment... .I'd suggest zero tolerance... .just walk away... .and let her issues burn themselves out.

If she is stepping up her treatment plan... and following through... .then by all means... validate... .listen... validate some more... (assuming this is good with updated treatment plan).

Hang in there man! 

[pallavirajsinghani]

Hi Max:  I was wondering when you will come to the realization that you can be a loving partner and not a clinician... .you certainly cannot be both.

Love is eternal and infinite... unfortunately energy is limited by our own biological restrictions.  Brain can take your thoughts to infinity... .but it is an organ made of biomass that has its limitations; Heart can love without bounds... .but it is a muscle and can get weaker.

So understand that the love that you have for her is eternal, fundamentally true and holy and a Truth.  Recognition of your own limitations--physiological limitations does not mean that your love has decreased, it just means that your self-awareness has increased.

You are now at the first step of "radical acceptance" and "detachment".  This is a self-protection mechanism that will prevent your 'Ego" from dissipating slowly and inevitably until there is nothing left.

To reiterate... .even if you follow the 3 steps to their conclusion... .love will not die.

A mother has to love an infant differently than love a child than love a young adult than love a grown adult... .the expression of love changes according to the needs of the beloved---love itself does not change.

In your case. "letting her go" is not stopping loving her, it is empowering her to heal herself.

She has no incentive to heal/soothe herself as this is what defines her relationship with you.  If dysfunction goes, the relationship goes... .this is what her mind is telling her... .perhaps this is what your mind is telling you too.

So, what if you be the first one to change the steps... .out of love, not out of a sense of failure shame and guilt.

[KateCat]

She has no incentive to heal/soothe herself as this is what defines her relationship with you.

I wonder if this truth could set you free, max?

[formflier]

I'm thinking there could be some middle ground here. 

That's where I was going with using boundaries... .to move her towards increasing counseling/treatment.

Decreasing the soothing that you send her... .that will encourage her to get it from right place.

[waverider]

After I first came here and gained a little insight I tried to overstretch myself and answer all her questions. This ultimately allowed her to project even more responsibility for her getting better on to me and less on her, as I "had all the answers".

The truth is we dont, and eventually I learnt to draw that line and categorically state that I dont have the answer and i would only be guessing and that could make things worse. In short i set a limit to the amount of "advice" to give, even if it was less than my actual knowledge. This encouraged her to seek outside help rather than expect it from all from me, which she could more readily taint, twist, or reject.

[maxsterling]

Good discussion here, you have given me lots to think about.

I had lots of time to think today, and I came to one conclusion - the long term success of this relationship will depend on her getting additional therapy.  The status quo, the mastery of the "lessons", boundaries, and the self care will only take things so far.  She won't get the things in life unless she reaches for them.  I can't get them for her, and if she doesn't find a healthy way to get them on her own, things will eventually fall apart. 

She went to her mental heath resource today, and instead of trying to find additional therapies targeting stress or anger management, she went to a vocational counselor.  Egad.  I've seen this cycle play out several times already over the course of two years.  Something I need to try and detach from, but should she ask my advice maybe this would be an opportunity to ask if they have special training or classes in how to deal with stress.

Another thing weighing on me is that last night in T, she harped on about how it was wrong for me to call the police on her.  Then she told the counselor that she argued with the police saying they had no reason to hold her.  And legally, that's true.  They tried talking to her, she clammed up.  She's been in that situation so many times before.  She said the police officer (a woman), said as she was leaving, "well, I guess you don't want us to help you."   And then BPD fiance told the T that had she gone to a hotel, she probably would have attempted suicide.  Geez.  That does not help me to hear that.  So, that means she was suicidal, did have a plan, yet when the police came, she refused help.  Makes me think that calling the police absolutely was the right thing to do, and did stop her from carrying out her plan. 

[Grey Kitty]

geez indeed.

But nevermind her, back to YOU, max!

When you called the police, you believed you did the right thing. You still believe you did the right thing.  Good for you!

STOP believing the crap she says about it--she (obviously) didn't feel good about having the police called on her. Remember with BPD, feeings = facts. Of course she believes you did the wrong thing!

STOP trying to convince her you did the right thing. That is just JADEing, and invalidating her. Nothing good will come of it!

It is so hard to let those sort of things go... .I really do understand. In fact I'm afraid I'll mess up similarly next week when I get back in touch with my wife.