Cycles of NC, trying to keep a connection with adult pwBPD (year re-cap)

[pessim-optimist]

Hello everyone,

I thought I'd give you an update on our situation and share some of our struggles of the last year:

My SD, even though she's been showing signs of BPD all along, had a drastic change 3 years ago, when she "switched sides" so to speak. She devalued/split black her dad who she grew up with, and idealized/split white her mom with whom she never had a good connection since babyhood and by whom she was abused.

These last three years, she's been alternating between NC and communication with us. She usually renews contact when she is in a health crisis (real or invented) and the communication gets back to normal. Sometimes it almost appears as though she is the same person she was 3 years ago. However, very soon it becomes apparent that seeing her dad as a bad person (and me with him) is still just under the surface and it tends to burst open with little or no provocation.

Depending on what else is going on in her life, it feels like we have become expendable (convenient to be used when it suits her and convenient to be discarded at other times). When the timing is "right" any small frustration or displeasure can turn into a hateful and defamatory rage followed by a vile e-mail and NC. We can sometimes even tell ahead of time when that's coming.

We have had contact with her through the spring and summer, and have been cut off again a couple of months ago. With the holidays coming, we are expecting her to stay silent at least till the beginning of the next year, or longer, depending if everything goes ok in her life or if she has any serious blowups with the current important people in her life.

This has been a very sad and frustrating journey for us, as there seems to be no way of preventing this from happening even with all the tools we have at our disposal.

It does help us to disengage in a more peaceful way, and it feels better to understand the patterns and it helps us in knowing that we can only do our part and the rest is not in our control. It is a more peaceful place to be. However, it still brings waves of grief over the loss of a daughter/step-daughter and of course, our three grandkids from whom we have been cut off for much of the time.

There is no way to tell, if or when her illness will allow her to see her dad as good again. We know she will get in touch again, and we are trying to keep our expectations realistic.

Every time, we let go and leave the door open for the next cycle.

This is a sad post, however, I want to encourage those who are in a similar situation. It is very painful to lose a child this way and as parents there is always that voice - "What did I do wrong? Could I have done something different? What can I do to change this?"

Be kind to yourselves, sometimes it's not in our power to make things better... .

What do you do to soothe yourself and to nurture life in these kind of circumstances?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[chooselove]

Thank you for the update.  I appreciated reading it and you wrote it out very well. Yes, it's a sad post... .but I sense your quiet acceptance, too.  Very similar situation here.  No contact for a few months.  Not the first time and I'm getting through it rather somberly in my heart but not feeling quite as defeated as I have in the past during times like this. After years of these heartbreaks of dashed hopes and countless upsets, I have found a release of the shame and blame that I carried for so long.  It was more of a choice than an actual "find."  I know I love her.  God knows I love her and God and I also know that this is no longer in my hands.  I'm telling myself that this must be what is needed by her to heal... .to be away from me and the rest of the family.  It's what she wants and what she believes she needs.  We've all tried our best.  She tried her best, too.  None of our bests worked. Like you, we expect that our reaching out for the holidays will be ignored / rejected. We will still reach out but we won't push or take it personally when met with silence and we won't pursue. We will love those who are with us and cherish each moment together... .and pray that her moments, wherever she is, are cherishable ones, too.   It could be that I've become numb, which is a form of kindness compared to being a puddle of hurt on the floor, or it could be that I've just finally radically accepted and let loose of her. I try not to think deeply on it any more because I don't want to feel that kind of immobilizing pain that stops a life from moving forward.  Sometimes I'll come across an old photo and it will send me back there to a time long ago and it's very sad. I'll linger for a few moments to acknowledge that time in the manner I feel I should and then make myself return to a more present and optimistic mindset.   I believe in miracles... .just not sure if they will happen in this life time.  I choose love, that is who and what I want to be now, no matter how I am judged.  So I tell myself as many times as necessary... .choose love and accept forgiveness, even if they cannot. 

[llbee814]

It is shame on those that judge.  It saddens me that we judge ourselves so harshly, and still are wounded by others' judgment of us.  Lose/ lose situation, .  I can't imagine having grandchildren thrown into life with BPD dd19.  I do have one grandchild with a nondd and that gets complicated enough with BPD in the family!  I really like the idea of choose love.  I do try to keep that front and center.  Such a good, strong name.  Forgiveness is easier on some days than others.  Such similar stages we all seem to go through, at these different ages, with our childrem as time goes by. 

[tristesse]

Hi Pessim-Optomist.

My heart hurts for you, I feel the pain and anguish with you. And I have to say that I hear nothing but love for this daughter in your post. She may be your SD, but the bond of motherhood is still present when you speak of her.

I am not in a NC situation, and have only been been once.  it was horribly heart breaking, I couldn't sleep, couldn't think straight, and I worried endlessly. I get it, I know how bad it hurts.

I understand that you just resign yourself to what is, and I admire that, but underneath, the hurt is still there, the dis-appointment and the sadness, they never go away.

I also understand what you mean when you say, even with the tools at our disposal, we can't prevent this from happening. This is sad , but so true.

BPD is a horrible hateful unforgiving illness. and those of us who live with and/or deal with a loved one suffering  BPD pay the price. We sacrifice and we do it knowing there will be no reward and there will be no thank you. We do it out of LOVE. I admire you, I admire your stamina and I admire your heart. You have been a source of inspiration to me over these past months, and I hope to give you hope and encouragement as well one of these days.

Hang in there friend. I will be thinking of you.

[behindme]

I feel for you as well, Pessim-Optim. I had been wondering what your situation was.  It must hurt and pull at your heart terribly.

I often wonder how I'll feel/react when I see my exDIL again. I had formerly been so close with her and she's the mother of my GS. I am torn between feeling compassion and some degree of anger and - yes, fear - of her. I've not seen her since the day a year ago June when she came to our home with my son with some strong accusations that I would not accept. All communication with her ceased that day. We subsequently learned that some very accusatory/inflammatory "anonymous" emails were sent by her to my husband and son that could have been potentially more harmful than they were.  It triggered more sorrow for her from me than hurt/anger.  But how would I react to her when I were to see her? That is the great unknown.

How do you do it? What do you say? How do you touch her, hold her in your eyes, your heart?  That is where I am at a loss right now.  I am here for my son, my grandson.  But where am I in all this -if I were to be there physically in my DIL's presence. I want to be prepared and all I feel is….empty.

[qcarolr]

pessio -   

Are you feeling as sad and resigned as this post sounds to me?  My heart is with you. What ages are your gkids? How does this inconsistency in contact with you effect them when you do get to see them? Are you able to send them cards or letters, even if you do not know whether they get them?

Was there an event 3 years ago that triggered this change in the pattern of her behaviors? Just curious.

"What do you do to soothe yourself and to nurture life in these kind of circumstances?"

"Letting go and leaving the door open". Sometimes this can take so much energy. I am glad that the process is more peaceful for you. Acceptance and Hope. When I can find my sense of peace it sure makes this daily process smoother. I have really put effort into choosing some quiet time each day to contemplate and pray. I read a lot and some of the books I have been in lately seem to be integrating so much I have taken in these past few years. I also have given myself permission to spend some money on taking better care of my health. I have been getting all the ol' systems checked, doing some PT that is starting to help with my balance - doing the exercises daily, getting a massage a couple times a month. Checking in weekly with a couple of my support network resources is also very important. It has taken a while to let go of my own willful, stubborn, self-sufficient patterns to reach out for this help on a regular basis.

The other area that is better is my marriage. My T suggested I reach out to my dh for comfort -- directly ask him. This has made an amazing difference in our connection. Gradually I am able to accept his humor, kindness, love and listening by participating in kind. He continues to reach out to me when I am troubled. In the past he avoided situations that were emotional. I tended to dive right in with loud outbursts of lots of emotion and strong opinions.  We still have times we talk over each other. Dh is also being quietly there in his 'protect my woman' mode when gd has her own emotional outbursts instead of diving in to 'protect' me. We have been able to use listening skills to plan this ahead of time -- very new for us. Dh has also started to open up with his true feelings about DD28 - his deep love for her, his frustrations and hopeless feeling about her actions... .  We are able to calmly share in this and work together to plan our boundaries and strategies. This has been so helpful as we plan for her release Saturday from jail.

qcr 

[lever.]

I also feel as if I have become expendable-there to be used as needed but there is no real relationship-although we are back in contact and thankfully I now see my grandchildren.

It is helpful to read about how other people cope with this.

When the first NC happened I was in a terrible state but now have some degree of acceptance, of letting go but keeping the door open. Will also always remember "choose love" now.

I cope by focusing on building other areas of my life and using the support of this forum-and reading. Well I sort of cope-but I certainly manage better than I did before I found you!

[pessim-optimist]

Thank you all for your kind words of encouragement and sharing of how you cope, it's inspiring to read your replies.

chooselove - you describe it well, I sometimes also wonder if I'm feeling the calmness of experience or just weary numbness. I'd like to think it's the experience, but if I am completely honest, I think it's partly numbness too. Grief can wear one out.

How do you do it? What do you say? How do you touch her, hold her in your eyes, your heart?  That is where I am at a loss right now.  I am here for my son, my grandson.  But where am I in all this -if I were to be there physically in my DIL's presence. I want to be prepared and all I feel is….empty.

I know how you feel... .If this were a chosen relationship, it would end. It is different with family members. I think the empty feeling comes from the juxtaposition of the continued relationship and us not knowing how to do that while remaining true to ourselves.

This kind of experience can send you on your own emotional roller coaster. The anger and hurt, sadness, frustration, agitation. Making sense of what happened (understanding the BPD patterns in it) and working through those emotions on my own (or with a friend or therapist) helps me get "centered" - come back to a calm and balanced state within myself when I can think clearly and act, rather than be thrown off-balance and react to what's coming at me. Understanding SD's limitations and what I can/can't expect from the relationship helps set the stage.

Am I making sense?

lever - I can definitely identify with that feeling - I actually realized from your posts that that was our situation also... .Reading others' stories often brings new insight into one's own situation, and it's good to know we are not alone in this - thank you!

[pessim-optimist]

qcr - what a beautiful transformation of your marriage! I will focus on this more as well. My husband and I have been there for each other practically and mentally, but our sharing is often limited to intellectualizing and discussing the issues, rather than deep emotional sharing and support. I have caught glimpses of my beloved's hurting heart and I want to comfort him and to make him feel more safe and welcome; I also need to allow myself to be vulnerable and share with him my deep feelings. I think that my "tough facade" of emotional avoidance that I learned growing up has made it harder for my husband to share. We are similar in this. I need to go to a deeper level and let another of my protective layers down. I know I can trust him, he will not hurt me. As I am learning to know my emotions better, I need to keep learning to name them and to share them appropriately also.

Are you feeling as sad and resigned as this post sounds to me?  My heart is with you. What ages are your gkids? How does this inconsistency in contact with you effect them when you do get to see them? Are you able to send them cards or letters, even if you do not know whether they get them?

Good observation. Yes, sad and resigned at the moment for sure. I know that hope might come again sometime in the future, but not for now... .The kids are now 13, 11, and 9. We had been very close to them throughout the years, so I know it's a trauma for them, but I also think we are becoming history, so to speak. I think they might be thinking "don't get too close, we don't know if/when we will see them again." We have sent b-day presents with cards, and so far they got them. We don't send letters - when we are cut off, we are "bad people" and any letters would be viewed as "contaminating" the kids minds.  So sad, we would love it if we could continue to communicate through letters.

Was there an event 3 years ago that triggered this change in the pattern of her behaviors? Just curious.

Yes, it was an avalanche of events: SD's husband was getting out of the military, they moved to our town and her fantasy of what it would be like wasn't materializing. In 6 weeks they went through money that was supposed to last them for 6 months and she was freaking out. We were not meeting her child-care expectations (couldn't watch her kids every day before AND after school) and weren't coming over often enough (2-3 times/week was too little). Their usual marital fights were at an even higher pitch and she wanted her dad to be on "her side." After he witnessed one of their terrible fights, he told her it's not just all her husband, she had her part in it too - she told him to get out of her house if he thought that (he politely left that day).

In the middle of all that, they took a vacation to Hawaii, and stopped over at her mom's with whom she was on again. After this visit, SD changed dramatically, started lashing out at her dad and blaming him for divorcing her mom (mom divorced dad); and I think that because her mom was always trying to poison her against dad, this time it worked, because of the timing and their identities "fused", so to speak: SD's extreme existential fear at this time, us unknowingly triggering her abandonment fears (we didn't know about BPD then, we found out right after these extreme events), and disappointing her unrealistic expectations.

They moved away soon after as they weren't making it financially and her husband got a promise on a job from his brother in the neighboring state.

The rest is painful history... .

[qcarolr]

If this were a chosen relationship, it would end. It is different with family members. I think the empty feeling comes from the juxtaposition of the continued relationship and us not knowing how to do that while remaining true to ourselves.

Holding the tension. The tension between two truths that are opposed to each other. Taking care of self and staying connected in our BPD relationship(s).

This is what mindfulness, being in Wisemind, feels like for me. I have found this peace and the more often I experience this the easier it is to come back to it. To find my center. It is still the most difficult to step back into peace when in conflict with my DD. Maybe I still do too much talking/problem solving and not enough full-attention listening. Why can I do this better with gd and dh than with DD? A good question to ponder.

qcr

ps. I just read the quote at the bottom of my post window.  paradox - where we all seem to live!  This quote is from "Heroine's Journey" by Maureen Murdock.

[lever.]

As soon as I read your post Pessi-optimist I knew this was how I feel but you described it better than I can-thanks.

I have been switched into the "bad guy" role too.

I think there has been a degree of projection. DD has done a few things that would make most people embarrassed. How can she live with this-put it onto Mum-voila I'm okay Mum isn't okay and we must all keep her at arms length.

Also Mum is no longer able to or even trying to solve my problems.

It could be hurtful-as (although I have made plenty of mistakes) I have spent a lot of time and effort trying to help.

However it is starting to hurt less-is this acceptance, numbness,fatigue? -I'm not really sure.

Some of it is connected to what I have learned here about self-care etc.

I am still more than willing to help but I'm more emotionally detached. (Detached with love?)

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

Lever, the statement ":)etachment with Love" has been a driving force in my own recovery. BPD was labeled for DD28 in May 2009. I found bpdfamily in August 2009. DD's behaviors drove her from our house in Oct 2009. We did not want her back in our home, got a restraining order. Bad breakup with bf, they both ended up in jail. She got out in Dec 2009 as a homeless women. I was deep into  ":)etachment with Anger and Resentment". And I was miserable beyond what I thought I could survive for a long while. There was a belief that if DD could recover then my life would be OK. Not how it has worked out.

Someone on this board replied to me with the quote about Detachment from the book "How Al-Anon Works for families & friends of alcoholics". I found this in chapter 11 online and wanted the book. This led me to a meeting where I found the book and my first support group of many other parents with struggling kids. Does not matter what the issue that builds the wall between us and our kids. Alcohol, drugs or mental illness. Detachment with Love can work. It sure took me long time to 'GET IT'.

Here is a quote, underlined in yellow in my book:

"... .what we need to help us separate ourselves from the symptoms and effects of the disease without separating ourselves from the human being.

At first, we might not detach very gracefully. Many of us have done so with resentments, bitter silence, or loud and angry condescension. It takes time and practice to master detachment. Beginning the process is important, even if we do it badly at first and must later make amends. But it is even more important to remember that establishing personal boundaries is not the same as building walls. Our goal is to heal ourselves and our relationships with other human beings, not to coldly distance ourselves, especially from the people who matter most to us. In fact, detachment is far more compassionate and respectful than the unfeeling distancing or the compulsive involvement many of us have practiced in the past, for when we detach with love, we accept others exactly as they are."

For me it is hard to stay at the balance point loving and being detached. Another one of those paradoxes that I am learning to sit in the tension with.  And I do agree that putting a higher priority on my self-care has helped so much. HMMMM... .seems maybe this self-care transformation has evolved along with the detachment with love.

qcr

[pessim-optimist]

I have been switched into the "bad guy" role too.

Have you also been "replaced" by someone else who is now the "good guy"?

I have seen this a lot on the Leaving board with significant others who find themselves replaced and also here with some kids switching to idealize the other parent, or even a random parent-figure.

I wonder if it is harder to become the good guy again when replaced by someone else, or if it doesn't matter.

I also wonder if it is also a case of the "cat being out of the bag" and the possibility of becoming the bad guy being on the table for all time now... .

It could be hurtful-as (although I have made plenty of mistakes) I have spent a lot of time and effort trying to help.

However it is starting to hurt less-is this acceptance, numbness,fatigue? -I'm not really sure.

Some of it is connected to what I have learned here about self-care etc.

I am still more than willing to help but I'm more emotionally detached. (Detached with love?)

I think the part that still hurts is knowing that the loving connection is broken and also that the person we love sees us this way... .

You are right, it hurts less now - I think the better we are able to hold onto our reality (with all the reality checks here from other parents) versus being defined by our pwBPD, the better our chance of steering clear of the dark vortex of condemnation. At least that's how I experience it... .

"... .what we need to help us separate ourselves from the symptoms and effects of the disease without separating ourselves from the human being.

... .In fact, detachment is far more compassionate and respectful than the unfeeling distancing or the compulsive involvement many of us have practiced in the past, for when we detach with love, we accept others exactly as they are."

What a profound quote thank you! So simply put, so hard to do.

There are times I am doing this no problem. But then there are times the pain is so intense, I have a hard time separating it from the human being causing it. Knowing what helps is great, following through in doing it is sometimes a challenge.

[lever.]

Yes pessim-I have been replaced.

DD tends to make friends with parent figures and sort of put them in a maternal role.

Yes-reading other people's posts does help to give a sense of perspective. I can see my mistakes but I know they weren't deliberate attempts to hurt or undermine my daughter. Without this sounding board I would probably feel more guilt.

I am just trying to keep validating and trying to maintain some link.

My situation is complicated by my other daughter's decision to go NC with her sister and DD1s anger at her sister for this.

I have to try to maintain completely separate relationships with them. Its a difficult path to tread and eventually I am going to find myself in an awkward situation.

I do want the best for my daughters and any anger I feel tends to be very short-lived-I think that I am working on detaching with love.

[jellibeans]

Dear peissim

I am coming to the party late but I wanted add my support. I have not been on the board much as my own dd is taking most of my energy lately.

I tend to look at the patterns... .you can see the pattern your SD repeats over and over and I think that is the same for many pwBPD. Do you think your SD is anticipating trouble or hurt with the holidays approaching? My DD17 tends to go into crisis around this time time starting with Halloween. I think she feels a great deal of pressure during these times to have fun and be happy. I think this is hard for her because she often is not happy and the pressure to be happy is too much for her or the constant reminder that the holidays are a happy time is just overwhelming. I am not sure if you SD feels this way but I wanted tomention it.

I think it is important to try and stop the cycles if possible... .I know that is easier said than done but being aware of it is the first step. This Christmas we are going to Mexico... .our Christmas is going to be very different and I am hoping that might be the beginning of some new behavior.

Pessim... .I don't know how to heal the hurts your SD has and how to stop them emerging over and over again. That seems to be something she is hanging on to pretty tight. I have the same issues with my dd. Out of the blue she will bring up something that happened a long time ago and I know she is reliving the pain all over again. During those times I try to remind her that we have already been through all this pain and we have grown from it and moved on.

I don't have grandchild but I can imagine the hurt you must feel when your SD goes NC especially during the holidays. Have you seen any pattern as to how your SD reconnects? Is it just with her health only? Has a letter ever helped? A letter has helped me at times. My dd really seems to take what is said in a letter to heart over just words spoken. I think that is the way her mind works so when things are bad I try to write to her.

I have read everyones posts and I think they have given you some good advise. Advise we all need at times. I love the quote that qcarior gave you... .I am printing that out for sure.

[pessim-optimist]

Do you think your SD is anticipating trouble or hurt with the holidays approaching?

These last three years she disconnects because she can't hold the tension with being in touch with both sides of the family at the same time.

The last two years has been in the fall specifically, the year before was entirely turbulent.

This year, her mom is getting married to a wealthy guy on top of the holidays, and so SD decided to have her "renewal of vows" - which added a lot of stress to SD and destabilized her as well. In addition, we cannot compete with that side of the family financially, so that plays a big role too (paid for tickets, visiting sunny California in the middle of the winter, gifts etc.)

Pessim... .I don't know how to heal the hurts your SD has and how to stop them emerging over and over again. That seems to be something she is hanging on to pretty tight. I have the same issues with my dd. Out of the blue she will bring up something that happened a long time ago and I know she is reliving the pain all over again. During those times I try to remind her that we have already been through all this pain and we have grown from it and moved on.

That is a very painful topic for us, as her mom seems to be stirring the pot continuously to get SD on her side and away from us. So harmful to SD, but her mom is just too selfish and unhealthy herself to see it.

She used to spank SD all the time calling it 'discipline' and it was a very contentious topic between her and my husband when they were married. Now she tells SD that her father used to beat her with a belt all the time, and unfortunately, SD now believes that and keeps bringing it up. That's just one of the many many stories that got cooked up over a period of 20 plus years and SD keeps adding her own... .

Have you seen any pattern as to how your SD reconnects? Is it just with her health only? Has a letter ever helped?

That's a good question. It has been mostly her or the kids' health.

However, during one of her NCs she wrote us an e-mail berating us for leaving the country forever without saying good-bye and had her kids write us how hurt they were  . We wrote back that we loved and missed them all that we weren't going anywhere, were still at the same place and that we would be happy to hear from them (we couldn't call, because she blocked our # preventatively when she went NC that time) - BUT we didn't hear back from her for another 2 months when she called at 5:30 in the morning that she had had some seizures the previous week.  

Also, last year, when she disconnected from us, it went rather peaceful (and we were hopeful), I posted about it here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=213025.0

BUT, instead of "taking a break" for 1-2 moths, her silence lasted 5 months, in spite of (or maybe because of   the fact that we wrote greetings for holidays, e-mail wishing them good travel to California, B-day wish and a gift for one of the grandkids, basically something almost every month.

Finally, she wrote a scathing e-mail in March full of the old accusations/attacks, to which my husband tried to validate what he could, side-stepped the accusations and said that he would love to hear from her. Another nasty e-mail arrived two months later. While we were still contemplating what to reply, she left a phone message wanting to know if my husband got the e-mail and "was up to that" (meaning delving into all the issues and apologizing for all the bad things he didn't do). She called again the same day and when my husband picked up, she didn't mention ANY issues and it was as if nothing ever happened... .

We had a peaceful r/s for 4 months, after which she dysregulated again, left a nasty e-mail and went NC. We e-mailed back leaving the door open.

So, we are looking back and trying to re-evaluate all the patterns.

This time, we are not going to write for holidays (we remember her mocking her mom for "bugging her and bothering her" when she was NC with her years ago), and we will see what happens.

We are planning to write and send gifts for the kids' b-days, though.