uBPDx Mom is heading for jail - what the hell do I tell the kids?

[Boss302]

Well, uBPDx has done it again. She's being arraigned on 1/2/15 on two counts of felony check fraud. This isn't the first time she's been hauled in on this charge - it happened in 2003 (with our daughter, then six, watching her being hauled off in handcuffs). I know this is for sure - I keep tabs on her legally (unfortunately part of the joy of being her ex), and saw the court documents, but the kids have no idea this bomb is about to be dropped on them.

This opens a giant can of worms in the lives of my kids, D14 and D18. I have primary custody of both but I am very fearful of what this will do to them.

D14:

Has a history of falling apart when uBPDx hits crisis points in her life. uBPDx was evicted three times from 2011-2014, the last time being in January. Each time, D14 began telling her school counselor she had deep issues, "didn't want to be here," etc. Finally, in January 2014, she told her school counselor she wanted to commit suicide, and began gouging her arm with pencins (self mutilation). She ended up in an inpatient mental health facility for a couple of weeks, and has been in counseling since. I think the basic issue is abandonment. She also takes Wellbutrin. Since then, she has been trying to establish boundaries with her mother, for which she's been painted black. uBPDx makes promise after promise that she fails to keep - the latest was Thanksgiving, which ended up disastrously - they were supposed to go to Chicago to see family, but ended up in the hospital instead for uBPDx mom's medical issues. D14 is very, very angry at her mother for the constant lies and BS she gets from her mother. I'm very afraid of what mom's impending legal problems will mean to the kid - if she started making suicidal threats over an eviction, having mom in stir can't do anything good for her. The good news is that she has opened up to me on her problems with her mom, so she's not stuffing anymore, for the most part.

D18:

Started college in Vermont this fall; she is there now. She was the kid who watched mom get hauled off in handcuffs in 2003, and got to also watch her go off again over a fake suicide attempt and an arrest for a moving violation warrant in 2010, so this is going to resonate with her. Unlike D14, though, she is a MAJOR stuffer, and is badly enmeshed with mom. The reason, I believe, is financial - apparently mom paid for her tuition to go to school; she said it was through a 'family trust,' but no one ever made me privy to the details or could provide me any verification of funds. How much of it was paid for is beyond me. My major concern here is her education - I don't know if her school's been paid for next semester; if it has, then thank God - she can ride the whole stupid circus out from Vermont and let her mother deal with her own legal issues. But emotionally, I don't know how much she'll open up to me on this.

There will be challenges to me too - trying to maintain all the relationships in my life, including the one with my significant other, will become more difficult. But I am more afraid of what this impending hydrogen bomb detonation will do to the kids. From my perspective, I'm angry as hell at uBPDx for continuing to do this kind of thing. How much more damage does she want to do to her children? Does she ever just f**king STOP? I think she may have just blown up her relationship with at least one kid (D14).

Does anyone have any suggestions? Should I tell the kids? Do I just let this bomb go off? I'm inclined to let D18 know that she needs to stop being close-lipped with me about her educational funds, but not tell her any specifics. I'm also inclined to give D14's support system - her therapist and her school counselor - a heads up about what's about to happen. I can give them the actual court papers to assuage any concerns that I'm simply trying to use this in some kind of custody dispute with uBPDx.

Any ideas? Anything I should be thinking about that I'm not?

[livednlearned]

I think it's important to be straight with our kids -- they get so little of that with the BPD parent.

So as difficult as everything is, with D14 and her struggles, and D18 with hers, I would hedge on the side of telling them both what you have learned. Maybe say that you aren't sure of the details, and they can talk to their mom about what happened, but if it is true, you think they both should know. And then have a therapeutic plan in place, whether it's family counseling with D14, or talking to the school counselor so someone is keeping an eye on her at school. 

With D18, it's hard to know what's best. If she is enmeshed and isn't talking to you about tuition, maybe the thing to do is let this ride out until she sees it for what it is. I can imagine wanting to "rescue" her by helping her pay for school if her mom can't pull it off. But if she is enmeshed, maybe the best thing is to let her hit bottom with this one so she can experience the real effects of that relationship. Let her ask you for help, if you're able to give it, but I would probably try as hard as I could to not intervene. Admittedly, nipping the codependent tendencies with my kid are my biggest challenge, so I'm not saying I could do this, just that I suspect it's better in the long-run.

[Nope]

I find myself aggreeing with LnL a whole lot and here is another example of that. I think it is important that you take the bull by the horns and let the kids know what is going on so that you have an effective support structure in place. Letting them know that things are heading in a certain direction for their mom will prepare them for the worst if it happens.

[ForeverDad]

There's a phrase that comes up around here, one your children would do well to wrap their heads around, ":)on't rent space in your head to your ex and especially not for free."  The children need validation of a number of principles... .  They don't own their mother's actions, she does... .  This is about their mother, not them... .  Be strong enough to weather these recurring surprises, disappointments and distresses... .  Yes it hurts but we still have our own lives to live and by living well we can prove we're not defined by others' chronic troubles.

Look for ways you can validate their appropriate observations and conclusions.  Likely this is chronic behavior by their mother and they have to come to terms that (1) it can happen again and again, (2) it is something their mother must own, not them and (3) they are not defined by their mother's poor choice of actions.

Being enmeshed will make it hard for them to withstand the emotional impact.  Hard but not impossible if they choose to grow stronger.

[Boss302]

With D18, it's hard to know what's best. If she is enmeshed and isn't talking to you about tuition, maybe the thing to do is let this ride out until she sees it for what it is. I can imagine wanting to "rescue" her by helping her pay for school if her mom can't pull it off. But if she is enmeshed, maybe the best thing is to let her hit bottom with this one so she can experience the real effects of that relationship. Let her ask you for help, if you're able to give it, but I would probably try as hard as I could to not intervene. Admittedly, nipping the codependent tendencies with my kid are my biggest challenge, so I'm not saying I could do this, just that I suspect it's better in the long-run.

Unfortunately, her school costs $44,000 a year, and that's completely beyond my ability (or my family's ability) to finance, or even make a substantial dent in. D18 had the opportunity to stay in state, which would have been feasible for me to help out with, but D18 opted to cast her lot with uBPDx. I found out today that tens of thousands of dollars are owed from the last semester, and nothing has been paid for spring at all. Also, D18 used up her financial aid for this year on the school she is attending. And the kicker... .since the tuition bill's unpaid, I doubt the school would even release her transcripts, so this whole semester will have been basically for nothing academically. D18 would basically have to come home and start working to save up for next fall. I warned D18 that this was a likely outcome, but she didn't pay attention, or wanted to believe what her "mother" was telling her was true.

Unfortunately, D18's in finals week, so I have no idea how I'd even break this news to her - not only about her mom's legal issues, but about hers as well. She loves her school.

"Mommy" screwed my daughter over so badly that I don't even have words to express how heartbroken I feel for this kid. How can a mother do this to her child?

[Turkish]

With D18, it's hard to know what's best. If she is enmeshed and isn't talking to you about tuition, maybe the thing to do is let this ride out until she sees it for what it is. I can imagine wanting to "rescue" her by helping her pay for school if her mom can't pull it off. But if she is enmeshed, maybe the best thing is to let her hit bottom with this one so she can experience the real effects of that relationship. Let her ask you for help, if you're able to give it, but I would probably try as hard as I could to not intervene. Admittedly, nipping the codependent tendencies with my kid are my biggest challenge, so I'm not saying I could do this, just that I suspect it's better in the long-run.

Unfortunately, her school costs $44,000 a year, and that's completely beyond my ability (or my family's ability) to finance, or even make a substantial dent in. D18 had the opportunity to stay in state, which would have been feasible for me to help out with, but D18 opted to cast her lot with uBPDx. I found out today that tens of thousands of dollars are owed from the last semester, and nothing has been paid for spring at all. Also, D18 used up her financial aid for this year on the school she is attending. And the kicker... .since the tuition bill's unpaid, I doubt the school would even release her transcripts, so this whole semester will have been basically for nothing academically. D18 would basically have to come home and start working to save up for next fall. I warned D18 that this was a likely outcome, but she didn't pay attention, or wanted to believe what her "mother" was telling her was true.

Unfortunately, D18's in finals week, so I have no idea how I'd even break this news to her - not only about her mom's legal issues, but about hers as well. She loves her school.

"Mommy" screwed my daughter over so badly that I don't even have words to express how heartbroken I feel for this kid. How can a mother do this to her child?

D18 is otherwise fairly stable, with no BPD traits, no? This might be a time for her to realize that she's an adult, and that her choices have consequences, no matter how BPD her mother is. You can give her the same choices. Not all children can grasp this, however, but by shielding her (and it sounds like monetarily you aren't able to, despite perhaps wanting to help) from this, it might keep her stuck and from maturing.

My friend's son pretty much flunked out his first two terms at Cal Poly, and he was kicked out sometime in the second quarter. The consequences were quite a bit of money wasted by both of his parents for housing, supplies and tuition (they divorced a long time ago, mom has BPD traits, but it had little to do with this). He came back home, spent two years at a community college, and is now finishing up his senior year at UC Davis as an engineering major. Almost a 4.0 GPA combined. He messed up, and grew because of it. It would have cost him a year in life, but he did summer classes to catch up. He had to work, too, unlike at Cal Poly where he rode on his parents' money.

If D18 is that much enmeshed with BPD mom, however, it will probably be much tougher. If she isn't showing destructive behaviors, however, it might be a life lesson she can learn now and grow up that much more quickly.

[livednlearned]

Unfortunately, D18's in finals week, so I have no idea how I'd even break this news to her - not only about her mom's legal issues, but about hers as well. She loves her school.

What about sending her a message to say when she has a chance and is done with finals, that you want to talk, and ask her to give you a call. If she's a "stuffer," chances are she'll sense that something is coming her way, and want to avoid it. But at least you have given her a heads up, and also asked her to wait until finals are over to breach the topic of her next semester.

It sounds like the harder issue is what to do about the unpaid bills. Who is responsible, how to repay the tuition. In the book Parenting Teens with Love and Logic, they would likely say that your D is responsible, at least if her mom isn't in a position to pay it back. You tried to talk to D18 about going to a cheaper school, and she didn't. And her mom fell down on the job, so now D18 has a mess. As harsh as it is, she is part of the decision to go to a more expensive school. I'm really sorry, Boss302. It's hard that our kids have to learn lessons in an even harder way than other kids who don't have mentally ill parents.

"Mommy" screwed my daughter over so badly that I don't even have words to express how heartbroken I feel for this kid. How can a mother do this to her child?

I feel the same way about my son. Sometimes, I feel so heartbroken I have to look away from everything otherwise it's just too crushing. Although, at the same time, I know he's better off without his dad in his life, and that he's come a long way from where he was 5 years ago when everything hit the wall for him.

It cost me over $100K to sort out the legal issues, and I'll be paying that debt for years to come. I could've bought a house, helped with tuition. My ex didn't even want to spend time with S13, he just wanted to be big man in court, and all of that drama in court was over what? A really poisonous mental illness that destroyed our whole family.

[Boss302]

With D18, it's hard to know what's best. If she is enmeshed and isn't talking to you about tuition, maybe the thing to do is let this ride out until she sees it for what it is. I can imagine wanting to "rescue" her by helping her pay for school if her mom can't pull it off. But if she is enmeshed, maybe the best thing is to let her hit bottom with this one so she can experience the real effects of that relationship. Let her ask you for help, if you're able to give it, but I would probably try as hard as I could to not intervene. Admittedly, nipping the codependent tendencies with my kid are my biggest challenge, so I'm not saying I could do this, just that I suspect it's better in the long-run.

Unfortunately, her school costs $44,000 a year, and that's completely beyond my ability (or my family's ability) to finance, or even make a substantial dent in. D18 had the opportunity to stay in state, which would have been feasible for me to help out with, but D18 opted to cast her lot with uBPDx. I found out today that tens of thousands of dollars are owed from the last semester, and nothing has been paid for spring at all. Also, D18 used up her financial aid for this year on the school she is attending. And the kicker... .since the tuition bill's unpaid, I doubt the school would even release her transcripts, so this whole semester will have been basically for nothing academically. D18 would basically have to come home and start working to save up for next fall. I warned D18 that this was a likely outcome, but she didn't pay attention, or wanted to believe what her "mother" was telling her was true.

Unfortunately, D18's in finals week, so I have no idea how I'd even break this news to her - not only about her mom's legal issues, but about hers as well. She loves her school.

"Mommy" screwed my daughter over so badly that I don't even have words to express how heartbroken I feel for this kid. How can a mother do this to her child?

D18 is otherwise fairly stable, with no BPD traits, no? This might be a time for her to realize that she's an adult, and that her choices have consequences, no matter how BPD her mother is. You can give her the same choices. Not all children can grasp this, however, but by shielding her (and it sounds like monetarily you aren't able to, despite perhaps wanting to help) from this, it might keep her stuck and from maturing.

My friend's son pretty much flunked out his first two terms at Cal Poly, and he was kicked out sometime in the second quarter. The consequences were quite a bit of money wasted by both of his parents for housing, supplies and tuition (they divorced a long time ago, mom has BPD traits, but it had little to do with this). He came back home, spent two years at a community college, and is now finishing up his senior year at UC Davis as an engineering major. Almost a 4.0 GPA combined. He messed up, and grew because of it. It would have cost him a year in life, but he did summer classes to catch up. He had to work, too, unlike at Cal Poly where he rode on his parents' money.

If D18 is that much enmeshed with BPD mom, however, it will probably be much tougher. If she isn't showing destructive behaviors, however, it might be a life lesson she can learn now and grow up that much more quickly.

I don't see many BPD traits with D18. She inherited some of her mom's character traits - manipulation, mainly - but I don't see any of the classic BPD indicators.

Unfortunately, I think D18 is going to get a solid kick to the curb very soon, I'm afraid. And I'm probably going to have to let her deal with it.

[Boss302]

What about sending her a message to say when she has a chance and is done with finals, that you want to talk, and ask her to give you a call. If she's a "stuffer," chances are she'll sense that something is coming her way, and want to avoid it. But at least you have given her a heads up, and also asked her to wait until finals are over to breach the topic of her next semester.

Well, since I wrote last, uBPDx blew that up too. I emailed her (and her only) to ask what the status of this is, and she copied D18 on the reply. Of course, BPDx's first response was not "we need to take care of the kid," but "how did you get that information from the school?" Apparently she had things set up to not share info with me and the "breach" of info was her main concern. How nice. Forget that D18's education is now a mess - it's all about me finding out that school hadn't been paid. D18's schooling means nothing. Finding out that uBPDx was lying is everything. Great, eh?

So I called D18 and asked her if she wants me to handle this with her mom. I pray she lets me. This shouldn't be her concern... .but that's the position she's putting herself in. I'm afraid it's going to take a lot of heartbreak for D18 to end the enmeshing with her mother. God help her.

But on a humorous note, uBPDx then sent me an email threatening to take me back to court because I'm so nasty. Well, yeah, she'll be there, all right, and if she doesn't have bail money she'll be able to stay as long as she likes. Kind of like her own personal version of "Orange Is The New Black." Who knows - maybe she'll hook up with Big Boo!  

[SlyQQ]

If there is any chance you convince the mum to tell them that would be best but i guess thats not going to happen if you can get some support from people they trust either psyches gtandparents or close friends can also help good luck

[ForeverDad]

Let me handle this with her mom... .

What is there to handle?  The cat is out of the bag, D18 knows now.  You can't pay (or not much) and her mom won't pay or can't pay.

Interesting that the big issue you were fretting over had morphed so quickly in a day.  Ex resolved that with a push of a button, though not in a good way of course.  It's an object lesson that we can't live our lives dictated by what a disordered person did or didn't do, or may or may not do.

Put some energy into strategizing how to stop running around trying to put out the fires.  Yes, I know, that's impossible to accomplish completely, but changing your perspective - and your daughters' perspectives - should help reduce the effect of their mom's chaos and keep it at a better distance.

Can you help them learn that their mom's me-centered thinking and behaviors are self sabotaging, that there are problems now which mom caused herself and it has spilled over onto the children.  Teach the children how to face this all as problem-solvers and dealing proactively with reality, keeping to a minimum their mother's problems and issues from spilling over onto the children and you.

[Boss302]

Let me handle this with her mom... .

What is there to handle?  The cat is out of the bag, D18 knows now.  You can't pay (or not much) and her mom won't pay or can't pay.

Interesting that the big issue you were fretting over had morphed so quickly in a day.  Ex resolved that with a push of a button, though not in a good way of course.  It's an object lesson that we can't live our lives dictated by what a disordered person did or didn't do, or may or may not do.

Put some energy into strategizing how to stop running around trying to put out the fires.  Yes, I know, that's impossible to accomplish completely, but changing your perspective - and your daughters' perspectives - should help reduce the effect of their mom's chaos and keep it at a better distance.

Can you help them learn that their mom's me-centered thinking and behaviors are self sabotaging, that there are problems now which mom caused herself and it has spilled over onto the children.  Teach the children how to face this all as problem-solvers and dealing proactively with reality, keeping to a minimum their mother's problems and issues from spilling over onto the children and you.

And to do that, I think D18 is going to have to learn the very hard way, unfortunately. It's not that the issue here "morphed" - it's that D18's school situation needs more immediate attention than the impending court date. If D18 isn't coming back to school, then all her stuff will have to be shipped back from Vermont. But D18 says she is working with mommy on this... .so if her stuff doesn't make it home, then I guess that's her problem to work out with mommy.

Breaks my heart to have to do it that way, but I don't see any other choice.

[PinkieV]

My DH and I will be dealing with this at some point, as my SS14's BM was evicted and took over $10,000 worth of appliances, fixtures and flooring with her.  We were scared it would happen during his visitation at Thanksgiving, and now we're hoping it's held off until after his Christmas visitation.

BM spent seven months in jail this past year for two felony counts of embezzlement, so we're assuming this new crime won't be taken lightly.  Both my SS's saw her arrested at least once.  SS19 has washed his hands of her and is incommunicado at boot camp.  SS14 has been in counseling for over a year, and has really started opening up.  One thing he told us is that he wants more say in his situation.  So my DH asks for his input on most things concerning BM, including what flights to take to see her, and what, if anything to tell her when she demands something.

Next week DH will file to move the custody case to our state, since it was resolved 6+ months ago and DH has sole custody.  DH is going to tell SS14 about the filing so he'll be ready when BM gets the paperwork.  Once we find out that this new lawsuit has been filed, he'll have a conversation about what may happen as well.  I know it's been hard on your daughters, but hearing about it from you first may lessen the blow. 

[Boss302]

My DH and I will be dealing with this at some point, as my SS14's BM was evicted and took over $10,000 worth of appliances, fixtures and flooring with her.  We were scared it would happen during his visitation at Thanksgiving, and now we're hoping it's held off until after his Christmas visitation.

BM spent seven months in jail this past year for two felony counts of embezzlement, so we're assuming this new crime won't be taken lightly.  Both my SS's saw her arrested at least once.  SS19 has washed his hands of her and is incommunicado at boot camp.  SS14 has been in counseling for over a year, and has really started opening up.  One thing he told us is that he wants more say in his situation.  So my DH asks for his input on most things concerning BM, including what flights to take to see her, and what, if anything to tell her when she demands something.

Next week DH will file to move the custody case to our state, since it was resolved 6+ months ago and DH has sole custody.  DH is going to tell SS14 about the filing so he'll be ready when BM gets the paperwork.  Once we find out that this new lawsuit has been filed, he'll have a conversation about what may happen as well.  I know it's been hard on your daughters, but hearing about it from you first may lessen the blow. 

I plan on telling themafter my oldest daughter's home from school. D14's therapist suggests this should be done after Christmas. Makes sense.

Best of luck to you... .hang in there!

[Boss302]

Well, I emailed mom (lowercase on purpose) and told her I knew about this and it's up to her to tell the kids everything.

God help them. I just couldn't sit around for weeks playing like nothing was wrong.

[Boss302]

I think it's important to be straight with our kids -- they get so little of that with the BPD parent.

So as difficult as everything is, with D14 and her struggles, and D18 with hers, I would hedge on the side of telling them both what you have learned. Maybe say that you aren't sure of the details, and they can talk to their mom about what happened, but if it is true, you think they both should know. And then have a therapeutic plan in place, whether it's family counseling with D14, or talking to the school counselor so someone is keeping an eye on her at school. 

With D18, it's hard to know what's best. If she is enmeshed and isn't talking to you about tuition, maybe the thing to do is let this ride out until she sees it for what it is. I can imagine wanting to "rescue" her by helping her pay for school if her mom can't pull it off. But if she is enmeshed, maybe the best thing is to let her hit bottom with this one so she can experience the real effects of that relationship. Let her ask you for help, if you're able to give it, but I would probably try as hard as I could to not intervene. Admittedly, nipping the codependent tendencies with my kid are my biggest challenge, so I'm not saying I could do this, just that I suspect it's better in the long-run.

The hardest part about being non co-dependent with D18 (or my other daughter) is that I know what's going to go down, but I don't discuss it. It makes me feel like a fake, and it requires me to be emotionally detached, because I feel like I'm lying otherwise. And playing "happy family" was part of our daily life when I was married. It all makes me feel like a fake and a liar. I have a very hard time with that.

[livednlearned]

I think it's important to be straight with our kids -- they get so little of that with the BPD parent.

So as difficult as everything is, with D14 and her struggles, and D18 with hers, I would hedge on the side of telling them both what you have learned. Maybe say that you aren't sure of the details, and they can talk to their mom about what happened, but if it is true, you think they both should know. And then have a therapeutic plan in place, whether it's family counseling with D14, or talking to the school counselor so someone is keeping an eye on her at school. 

With D18, it's hard to know what's best. If she is enmeshed and isn't talking to you about tuition, maybe the thing to do is let this ride out until she sees it for what it is. I can imagine wanting to "rescue" her by helping her pay for school if her mom can't pull it off. But if she is enmeshed, maybe the best thing is to let her hit bottom with this one so she can experience the real effects of that relationship. Let her ask you for help, if you're able to give it, but I would probably try as hard as I could to not intervene. Admittedly, nipping the codependent tendencies with my kid are my biggest challenge, so I'm not saying I could do this, just that I suspect it's better in the long-run.

The hardest part about being non co-dependent with D18 (or my other daughter) is that I know what's going to go down, but I don't discuss it. It makes me feel like a fake, and it requires me to be emotionally detached, because I feel like I'm lying otherwise. And playing "happy family" was part of our daily life when I was married. It all makes me feel like a fake and a liar. I have a very hard time with that.

Is there a medium way?

[Nope]

The hardest part about being non co-dependent with D18 (or my other daughter) is that I know what's going to go down, but I don't discuss it. It makes me feel like a fake, and it requires me to be emotionally detached, because I feel like I'm lying otherwise. And playing "happy family" was part of our daily life when I was married. It all makes me feel like a fake and a liar. I have a very hard time with that.

I would just worry that D18 will shoot the messenger. It would make everything a whole lot easier on D18 and her BPD mom if somehow this could be made to be all your fault. BPD mom would be off the hook, and D18 wouldn't have to step back and maybe take a real look at who her mother really is.

I'd try not to see it as being fake and try to see it as staying out of the line of fire.

[Boss302]

The hardest part about being non co-dependent with D18 (or my other daughter) is that I know what's going to go down, but I don't discuss it. It makes me feel like a fake, and it requires me to be emotionally detached, because I feel like I'm lying otherwise. And playing "happy family" was part of our daily life when I was married. It all makes me feel like a fake and a liar. I have a very hard time with that.

I would just worry that D18 will shoot the messenger. It would make everything a whole lot easier on D18 and her BPD mom if somehow this could be made to be all your fault. BPD mom would be off the hook, and D18 wouldn't have to step back and maybe take a real look at who her mother really is.

I'd try not to see it as being fake and try to see it as staying out of the line of fire.

I can only hope. "mom" (and it's in quotations for a reason) has been arrested in front of D18 multiple times before. How much more does she need to see before she figures out she needs to protect herself emotionally?

Or is her self worth so low that she figures this is all her fault?

[livednlearned]

The hardest part about being non co-dependent with D18 (or my other daughter) is that I know what's going to go down, but I don't discuss it. It makes me feel like a fake, and it requires me to be emotionally detached, because I feel like I'm lying otherwise. And playing "happy family" was part of our daily life when I was married. It all makes me feel like a fake and a liar. I have a very hard time with that.

I would just worry that D18 will shoot the messenger. It would make everything a whole lot easier on D18 and her BPD mom if somehow this could be made to be all your fault. BPD mom would be off the hook, and D18 wouldn't have to step back and maybe take a real look at who her mother really is.

I'd try not to see it as being fake and try to see it as staying out of the line of fire.

Good insight. I think changing your perspective is probably helpful. Do you know about the Karpmann drama triangle? There is a healthy version of it called TED (The Empowerment Dynamic). I found it useful for trying to curb some codependent behaviors I have with my son. So instead of being the rescuer, you become the coach. It's a subtle shift, but reading about it helped me think about what I was doing in a way that felt more effective than neglectful.

I don't know exactly how it would apply in your situation. But it can give you a middle way type of perspective, so that you can be involved in the dialog without feeling triangulated. If that makes sense. The short cut I use (because I always feel a little bit on my heels talking to my son about big topics) is to ask questions instead of tell him how things are going to go.

I remember readings about how a lot of BPD behavior is unconscious defensiveness -- they think they are being protective, but everyone else experiences it as extreme defensiveness -- and that the difference between nons and BPD sufferers is that we can recognize when we are being defensive. So both can be triggered to defensiveness. If nons cannot figure out how to unlock our own defensiveness, then our kids don't really learn how to do it. Your D18 is going to probably feel defensive because you already warned her, so reminding her of that may cause her to ally with her mom out of sheer defensiveness and not wanting to take responsibility for being part of the decision to go to an expensive school.

With my son, instead of telling him what I think, I try to ask questions. How are you going to feel when... .or If your plan doesn't work out how will you... .or if I'm trying to assert a boundary, I'll say, I love you too much to let you sit in your room all day. What can we do for an hour so that we can spend time together and you have plenty of time to do what you want to do.

Do you think something like that would work with your D18?