Lack of specific reasons for "existential hate"

[AnnaK]

Let me ask this.

The current situation is that my uBPDbf hates me.

I believe - for leaving his country (i'll be back)

Yet he does not answer specific questions what action he hates me for.

Mostly his answers are generic: "You've done enough", "you are too stubborn" and "I cant live with you"

He does not give any examples of me being stubborn or how living with me affects him.

Is it generic? They dont know why they hate us?

Can it be used as a "marker" of BPD-hate?

Like when someone says "Go away i cant live with you" - how do I differ between the mature adult opinion and immature BPD hate?

Interesting enough, on earlier occasions my BF used to put on a very thoughtful adult mask when expressing his BPD-related emotions... .

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[Ripped Heart]

Hi Anna,

It can be extremely confusing from our perspective when there is no defined reasons as to why our loved ones feel the way they do.

I often heard that from my exgf all the time, I "irritated" her and she would say nasty comments to project that irritation. However, it was never anything I did or said that irritated her, she just felt that way and every time I asked why she felt that or if it was something I had done, the answer was always the same, "She didn't know" all she knew is she felt irritated and hurtful comments would come out of her mouth.

In the mindset of a pwBPD Feelings = Facts so it doesn't matter if you haven't done anything that could be viewed as stubborn. If that is how your bf "feels" then to him it must be true. It could even be something you said or did a very long time ago that just triggers.

The "I can't live with you" might relate to their own shame around how they feel and projected at you again. The push/pull scenario of Go Away/Please Stay. Again with my exgf, whenever she made nasty comments, she would usually tell me to leave. If I left, she would call a short time after really sad and upset that I had actually gone. However, if I stayed it often made things worse. Engulfment and Abandonment, they need you close but panic and push you away, once away they need you close.

[formflier]

 

My first reaction is he wants you to "take the bait"... .and try to chase down an exact answer... .

Hint... "don't take the bait... ."

Acknowledge his feelings... .and move on...

Maybe let him know that you don't understand... .but that you would like to... .when he is ready to fully explain himself... .

[AnnaK]

Hi Anna,

It can be extremely confusing from our perspective when there is no defined reasons as to why our loved ones feel the way they do.

I often heard that from my exgf all the time, I "irritated" her and she would say nasty comments to project that irritation. However, it was never anything I did or said that irritated her, she just felt that way and every time I asked why she felt that or if it was something I had done, the answer was always the same, "She didn't know" all she knew is she felt irritated and hurtful comments would come out of her mouth.

In the mindset of a pwBPD Feelings = Facts so it doesn't matter if you haven't done anything that could be viewed as stubborn. If that is how your bf "feels" then to him it must be true. It could even be something you said or did a very long time ago that just triggers.

The "I can't live with you" might relate to their own shame around how they feel and projected at you again. The push/pull scenario of Go Away/Please Stay. Again with my exgf, whenever she made nasty comments, she would usually tell me to leave. If I left, she would call a short time after really sad and upset that I had actually gone. However, if I stayed it often made things worse. Engulfment and Abandonment, they need you close but panic and push you away, once away they need you close.

It was quite confusing initially, but I am already accustomed to the way his mind works. When I chase down the pattern in his behavior, I usually share the pattern with him. He is quite intelligent, so when he sees the pattern and understands how absurd it looks, he usually stops.

Like he used to kick me out of the house and chase after me seconds after that. Over and over. Once I talked to him that it does not make any point whatsoever to kick someone out then chase after them as soon as they demonstrate any intention to leave.

It then stopped, and he does not look in any way uncomfortable about it.

Now I told him by text messages, that I leave India for the 3d time, every time with a different scenario, but every time he hates me for weeks after I take the plane. It used to make me very confused, this hate that would start overnight for no obvious reason... .like he'd be nice to me at the point of departure, and by the time I land he'd hate me like the worst enemy... .but now I seem to understand that he hates me precisely for LEAVING, and as he does not trust me ("they never ever get back!", whenever I say that I will come back, it sounds like a lie to him, like picking at his wounds... .so he hates me even more for promises to return.

PS: what used to make matters even more complicated, is that initially he'd be shy to communicate me the sudden hate that overwhelmed him out of the blue (after all, just hours later he would come out like he liked me - he is not entirely insane)... .so he used to cut contact, which confused me even more. This time around he is quite open about hating me, so we keep in touch (there were talks between us about the "thin line" and that the opposite of love is not hate - it's indifference)

[AnnaK]

The "I can't live with you" might relate to their own shame around how they feel and projected at you again. The push/pull scenario of Go Away/Please Stay. Again with my exgf, whenever she made nasty comments, she would usually tell me to leave. If I left, she would call a short time after really sad and upset that I had actually gone. However, if I stayed it often made things worse. Engulfment and Abandonment, they need you close but panic and push you away, once away they need you close.

Here you are down to the point. The previous "I can't live with you", after talking around a bit (thankfully I was already capable not to defend from projections and return them to him, bcz he was only talking in projections! that was the most surreal conversation ever!), it transformed into "I don't deserve you" and similar things

[AnnaK]

My first reaction is he wants you to "take the bait"... .and try to chase down an exact answer... .

Hint... "don't take the bait... ."

Acknowledge his feelings... .and move on...

Maybe let him know that you don't understand... .but that you would like to... .when he is ready to fully explain himself... .

I suspect, in some cases now, I understand him better than he understands himself. Although he thinks a lot about what's wrong with him and how to fix himself, it's more like I communicate the patterns to him, thus giving him more information to think about.

No, I don't take baits, I mean, to the extend possible. Non-defending and non-justifying was my general principle even before I met him.

My parents also adore criticising me, so I had to learn the basic principles of survival in highly critical environment  

[formflier]

 

One comment on your tactics... .

It seems good that you can explain his pattern to him... .and he stops.

It might seem better... .if you can ask questions of him... .and allow him to explain himself... .and see that his explanations are in conflict.

Basically... .some way to allow him to get to the "Ahhh Haaa"   moment... vice having you explain it.

[waverider]

One of the dangers here is that they dont really know why, it is just a feeling, and is clouded by all the twisted justifications that come out of their memories to validate it.

If you push too hard for an answer they can go from not fully knowing why to actually completely believing one of these twisted reason. Thereby making the feeling even more entrenched

[formflier]

 

I certainly agree... .for someone that is "not doing well"... .or not "making progress"... .best just to validate and move on.

But... .if you have someone that is making progress... and that is looking at reality... .or looking for reality.  Letting them discover that they can't have it both ways... .could be helpful. 

If this is an issue where there is no right and wrong... .just an opinion... .might not be good to push... especially if the explanation just stacks up more twisted opinions.

In my case... .or more recent case.  My wife is alleging that when I said something to my daughter the other day I was talking about a conversation my wife and daughter had in the living room earlier that same day.

My wife insists that the conversation between her and my daughter was private and I wasn't there... .so I should "butt out".

I allege that I was not talking about that conversation... .because I was not part of it... .had no knowledge of it... .and therefore... .could not comment on something I was not part of.

I am attempting to get my wife to decide if I was part of the conversation... .and therefore could have commented...

Or... .that I wasn't part of it and therefore could not have been referencing a conversation that I was not part of.

Or... .explain how I could know what happened in a conversation that I was not part of... .and neither party had told me about.


Sometimes... .it's fun to chase the rabbits... .or let the rabbits chase themselves... .sometimes it keeps them distracted... .