Need advice about a restraining order.

[boatman]

Hi everyone-

I need some advice. I have not spoken with my exBPDgf since the beginning of December. We were together for 2 years, and I lost track of how many times we broke up and got back together. The longest we went with NC was 6 weeks. Without getting rehashing my entire history with her, we've known each other for 10 years. We've worked at the same place that entire time. I work full time and she works part time (during the busier times of the year).

The final straw for me occurred at the beginning of December. She had been increasingly verbally abusive to me and I was setting more and more boundaries because of that. Eventually, this lead to me ending things with her. I ran into her "unexpectedly" in public twice a few days after, though I suspect now that she was following me, and I agreed to meet her to discuss a possible reconciliation the next day. I had serious doubts about this because during our conversation the first time I "ran into her", she defended the verbal abuse and cheating on me. Of course I convinced myself that this time would be different.

When I met her to talk, the conversation literally only lasted about 10 minutes. She went right back into defending herself, this time even telling me that I didn't deserve her and that emotional and verbal abuse were never reasons to end a relationship. I told her that was STILL  a dealbreaker for me and ended the conversation with her. I unwisely went across the street to the mall to do some shopping, then she began calling me incessantly. I ignored many calls but I after about 15 consecutive calls I answered her. She immediately began berating me and raging again so I told her I had to hang up. I ignored another 10 calls then unwisely chose to answer again (GUILT). She reiterated that I don't deserve her and told me that she was going to continue to contact me but I shouldn't answer.  I ignored probably another 10 calls and then answered again, she immediately went back into a rage because I didn't answer before. I ended the call again and continued shopping. About 5 minutes later she came into the store I was in! I told her to leave me alone to which she replied "No". Luckily a salesman that had been helping me came back with some information he had gone for so she wandered off. I snuck out of the store and the mall and got into my car. I was worried that she would follow me home so I drove around to the other side of the mall and went into a store there, hoping to evade her. At this point the phone calls started again but I refused to answer. After a little while the store was closing so I headed back toward my car. As I walked across the parking lot I saw her car and she spotted me. She quickly drove over and BLOCKED MY CAR IN! I told her to move it and all she did was shake her head "no" like you might see in a horror movie! I got into my car and locked the doors hoping she would move but she walked right up to my window and started demanding that I sit and talk with her. I told her I would (hoping that she would move her car and I could get away) but she didn't fall for it. She then started making more threats saying "I'll follow you wherever you go! I'll follow you to your house! I'll even follow you to the police station!" I replied, "Let me leave! I want to go home!" She said "No!" She then walked back toward her car and opened the door but then just looked at me for a couple minutes. I decided to make a break for it and got out of my car and headed back into the mall. She tried to grab me to stop me but I said, ":)on't touch me!" I continued walking and took out my phone to call a friend and she yelled across the parking lot "The police won't help you!". She then pulled her car alongside me and asked where I was going but I ignored her. She then finally sped away. I received more calls from her which I ignored, then finally a text message saying "I'll never contact you again".

As I said we work together. She had been off was called into work for 3 days during the holidays. I didn't think she had the guts to actually come back after what she did but unfortunately I was wrong. Suffice it to say, those 3 days of work were VERY uncomfortable and down right scary for me. Luckily she won't be back to work again for 3-4 months which gives me some time.

What should I do? Should I talk to upper management about her? Should I just get a restraining order against her? Should I just let it go? The thought of having to be around her again scares me half to death.

Thank you in advance for your input. Also I apologize for the length of this but I wanted to include as much detail as possible so members would know the whole story so I can get the best feedback possible.

Thanks again!

[peiper]

Get a restraining order. You need to document this with the authority's. These people are very unpredictable. So protect yourself. Good luck.

[boatman]

Hi Peiper-

I probably shouldn't worry about this but I'm worried about what our coworkers will think. Who knows what kind of lies she's told them. I don't want them to think I'm just trying to punish her.

[peiper]

Hi Peiper-

I probably shouldn't worry about this but I'm worried about what our coworkers will think. Who knows what kind of lies she's told them. I don't want them to think I'm just trying to punish her.

It could get a lot worse then what coworkers think. You need to protect yourself. Remember they act on whatever emotion they feel at the moment. I ended up being charged with a bogus domestic violence charge, I couldn't believe she did it. But it made her look good to her family. These people are capable of anything. Just my experience.

[SlyQQ]

you will be better off if you file first if you think she might

[ugghh]

i highly recommend you contact an attorney.

If you fail to protect yourself, you will most likely find yourself on the receiving end of a false restraining order.

Yes, talk to management with your concerns.

She has already shown that she is willing to embrace extreme measures.

[ForeverDad]

You are worried about whether to get a protection/restraining order against her and worried how it might impact your co-workers and others?  You really ought to be worried about the very opposite - her filing a motion for protection from you and filling it will exaggerations and difficult-to-disprove allegations!

While there's no way to know for sure what she will do next, she may or may not follow 'typical' patterns, there are huge risks for you of the male gender.  She could go to court to get protection from you far more easily than you could go into court getting protection from her.

Along similar thoughts of the others... .

• She wants to 'talk' or 'fix this' but it will likely be more like she talks and you listen and agree, comply, acquiesce, etc.  With the relationship ending or ended, it's unlikely she can be reasoned with since her perceptions and emotions are so strong.



• So IF you ever agree to talk with her it MUST be in a public setting where you can't be accused of behaving badly or since she can allege anything she feels then at least have witnesses you weren't behaving badly.



• You have to behave 100% squeaky clean in all respects, no yelling, no touching, nothing that could be distorted into threats or DV.  Seriously!



• You can set things straight with HR and others at work but beware that she may try to do the same - to 'protect' herself from you.



• Record yourself anytime she is in your area and may approach you.  You need PROOF that you the person of the horrible male gender didn't do anything.



• Conversely, it would be smart to have recordings of her behaving poorly.  (No, don't wave a recorder in her face, keep that in the background so that if it is never needed for self-protection then you could discard it years from now.)

Understand that most people with BPD (or other erratic, acting-out PD) will describe ALL their past relationships as 'abusive'.  This is Blame-Shifting.  They can't allow any thoughts that the end was their fault, so they have to blame someone else, usually their ex-friend, ex-lover.  We are reasonably normal and can see that doesn't make sense but their perceptions and neediness are distorted.  So when discussing the end, it probably won't work to tell her its because of her actions and her perceptions, she won't accept that.  Perhaps it would be best to try to say "it just didn't work out" and see if that helps her be less agitated.

Summary... .protect yourself from a real risk of being framed for DV, don't be alone with her, avoid situations where you would be alone without witnesses and her able to block you in, record yourself to have proof you weren't the one behaving poorly, etc.

My background... .I had a child with my spouse, so our relationship as parents will never end.  But I recorded myself (and her if she spoke up) when I realized the relationship was imploding and I was in danger.  That was about 4-6 months before we separated and for several years thereafter at exchanges, phone calls, etc.  It was LITERALLY self-protection.  Only a dozen were ever used with the police, CPS and in family court.  But they saved me from a smear campaign, they didn't stop her from making allegations but they protected her from trashing my credibility.  In time it was her default credibility as a female that was lost.

Since you didn't have children together, since you were never married, in time the tension being felt right now should dissipate with time.  But until then be careful.

[Matt]

Yeah, I agree with the gang - she's showed she is nuts and could be dangerous - you need to protect yourself.

I'd suggest having a frank and fair talk with your manager and/or the HR person right away - don't exaggerate or try to make her sound like a villain, just calmly summarize why you are concerned and ask for their advice.  Keep in mind that they need to do what is best for the company, not just for you, so try your best to have your interests aligned with the company's interests, and be open to ideas that are sensible and practical - don't insist on being the good guy and making your ex the bad guy.

Then talk to someone at the court about a restraining order or "order of protection".  Again, be factual and don't exaggerate.  What you are looking for is a practical solution;  the court may ultimately tell you both to stay away from each other, and that's a good outcome.

If you talk to an attorney, you can find out the details about how ROs or OOPs work where you live;  for example, what information about this will be available to future employers - will they be able to see that there was an RO or OOP involving you, and will they be able to tell who filed it?  If the public record is visible but unclear, it could be assumed that the man must be the bad guy - that's what the media tell us - and that could be a problem later.

If you are very concerned, you could also talk to the police and let them know what is going on, so if there is some incident at your home they won't assume you're at fault.

And as FD and others have said, make sure that you never backslide and talk to her - don't take her calls - don't respond to her e-mails - don't talk to her at all unless you are required to for work, and then only about work.  Never be alone with her, without a "non-family adult third party" present (I'm quoting my own lawyer here - his exact words in a somewhat similar situation).  If you slip up even once, that will undo everything else you are doing to protect yourself.

Just FYI, I was married 12 years to a BPD sufferer, who was verbally abusive often, and near the end physically attacked me twice in our home, then called 911 and accused me of assault.  16 hours of hard time and $5,000 in legal fees later, I got a copy of the police report which proved she was lying, and the charges were dropped.  A very unpleasant experience!  And the arrest record can never be purged - it's available online for any potential employer to see.  At least I had a motive for staying together - 4 kids.  But since you have no kids with this woman, it's not worth any risk - best to put your own safety and sanity first and take every reasonable step to keep her at a distance.

[ForeverDad]

And as FD and others have said, make sure that you never backslide and talk to her - don't take her calls - don't respond to her e-mails - don't talk to her at all unless you are required to for work, and then only about work.  Never be alone with her, without a "non-family adult third party" present (I'm quoting my own lawyer here - his exact words in a somewhat similar situation).  If you slip up even once, that will undo everything else you are doing to protect yourself.

To one-up Matt, here's what MY lawyer told me... .":)on't go back to her, not even if she dances naked on your front lawn!"  He got his point across.

And Matt will then probably one-up me... .

I thought about writing a book about my experience - 16 hours of hard time.  If I did, I think I would title it based on the most memorable quote from one of my cellmates:  "Yo white man you snoring!"  Good times, good times... .

[livednlearned]

I did not work with my ex, but he began sending emails to my boss. My position is grant funded, and he threatened to tell the foundation that I had an affair with someone on their staff that far as I could tell, is a name he just made up.   

So I filed an official report with HR. My ex also had a psychotic episode that nearly gave me a nervous breakdown, and my boss had me sit down with campus police (I work at a uni) to document my concerns so that there was a file just in case something happened. They moved my office, which is no small thing in a university, and I don't have to have my name on my door.

Write down an account of what happened at the mall as though you were filing a police report, and let them know that you are concerned about her stability and your safety.

But before you do that, sit down with yourself and make for darn sure that you are absolutely 100% done. No going back. If you yank people's coats and tell them there is a problem, and then you get back together with her, you seriously undermine your credibility and they'll peg you as half the problem, if not the whole problem.

[Matt]

Write down an account of what happened at the mall as though you were filing a police report, and let them know that you are concerned about her stability and your safety.

Super-good point - advice I got the first time I talked to my lawyer - a real-time (or as soon as possible) narrative of exactly what happened - as much detail as you can remember - which stores you were in, what time of day each event happened, exactly what each of you said, etc.

This may be more important than you realize.  Our memories aren't as good as we think, especially when we're under stress.  The ability to tell your story consistently and accurately - and the other party's likely tendency to say things that aren't true - will work in your favor.  But if you don't write it down as soon as possible, your memory might betray you at some point and you can lose credibility even though you're doing your best to say what happened.

[maxen]

I'd suggest having a frank and fair talk with your manager and/or the HR person right away

yes, this. it was an incredible surprise to me how supportive my workplace was to me, too, when i was in the pit of it.

[momtara]

Haven't read all the other responses but she does sound like the type who would turn things around and claim you did this to her.  You need to document with authorities, even if you don't get a RO.  Especially her following you and blocking you in.  Show them how many calls you got, so it's not just your word.

[ForeverDad]

And don't delete the emails or texts - those are proof to support your story.

[boatman]

Hi again everyone and thank you for all your insightful responses. 

A new development: she called me for the first time while I was on my way home today. I didn't answer but just seeing her name appear on my phone triggered panic for me. I immediately began to wonder if she was following me or something. She left me a voicemail but it was all garbled, for some reason the connection wasn't good. I have ABSOLUTELY no intention to contact her.

I agree about writing down an account of what happened. I realized yesterday when I was writing my post that it was the first time I had described in writing what happened. I also think the idea of letting the police know and/or filing a report with them is good. If I do, are they required to let her know? I'm worried about retaliation from her.

Unfortunately, the company I work for is smaller in size so we don't really have an HR department. The person I would have to speak to is the owner and I'm VERY concerned that he won't be supportive or understanding. This is actually one of the reasons I was thinking about trying to get a RO, that way I don't have to worry about what he thinks. I just don't feel safe at work when she's there and I guess I feel helpless when it comes to anyone there helping/supporting me.  :'(

If you talk to an attorney, you can find out the details about how ROs or OOPs work where you live;  for example, what information about this will be available to future employers - will they be able to see that there was an RO or OOP involving you, and will they be able to tell who filed it?  If the public record is visible but unclear, it could be assumed that the man must be the bad guy - that's what the media tell us - and that could be a problem later.

Matt- This is a good point that I didn't consider before. I'm terrified of people now/later misunderstanding and/or using this against me, especially given that she has almost certainly already told our co-workers lies about me. I guess I feel like no matter what I do, if I just let it go or get a RO, I'm going to be punished.

As I was researching restraining orders I found out that some domestic violence hotlines can help with the process, rather than an attorney. Does anyone have any information about this or any experience? Also, has anyone else experienced this helpless feeling I have when it comes to RO's?

Thanks again for your help. I'm so grateful for all of you! 

[Matt]

A couple more thoughts for you... .

First, if you talk with an attorney - even if you don't retain her - one way to document what happened might be to write her an e-mail, because that puts a time-stamp on it - you can later show when you wrote it.  Or if not an attorney, maybe an e-mail to a trusted friend or family member, to get your narrative in writing and establish when you wrote it.  (The sooner the better, but take your time and get it the best you can.)

About talking to the owner, it's worth thinking carefully before acting, but if you take the initiative - I did this, by the way - and give him the whole story, you will be controlling the way he first hears it, and that's probably best.  If you don't do that, and he hears the story from your ex, he may believe what she tells him, and you'll be on the defensive.  It's usually best to "get out front of the story" rather than have to react to the other party's spin.

About filing a police report:  It could go either way - the police may decide to contact her or they may not.  If you don't accuse her of a crime, or if you tell the police, "I wanted you to know this but I am not afraid of her so I'm not asking you to do anything at this point." they may take the path of least resistance and just file the report.  In my experience, in matters like this, the police do what they are required to do, and probably nothing more.

If a woman accuses a man of harming her or threatening to harm her, that's different - in my state they are then required to arrest him and charge him with a crime.  It's how 20 states interpret the Violence Against Women Act.  But I've never heard of the reverse - a law requiring the police to take action when a woman poses a potential threat to a man.  That is usually assumed not to be serious unless you make it clear that she has harmed you, and maybe not even then.

[livednlearned]

I'm worried about retaliation from her.

People on this board in particular understand this more than you can imagine.

The problem is that fear of retaliation does not prevent her from escalating things anyway. She experiences disordered thinking, and emotional dysregulation, and impulsivity. And she is now dealing not only with extreme fear of abandonment, but real abandonment.

Expect her to retaliate no matter what you do. That's why it's important to anticipate her and take care of this before she sets you up for a false allegation.

It's classic DV thinking to worry that protecting yourself will invite something worse to happen. Document everything to within an inch of your life and set thick boundaries, and then take safety precautions. Don't put yourself in situations where you are alone with her, and if you feel your employer will not support you, think about looking for somewhere else to work.

It isn't worth being in that environment. Right now more than ever, you need people around you who support you. It goes such a long way.

[Aussie JJ]

From someone who has been there, had the advice and tried to take the softly softly approach. 

It doesn't work.  Please examine the pattern of behaviour, it guides you on what to expect from your ex.  Also, she is now your ex, remember this, you are not responsible for her or how she feels. 

Your ex is a good person, she unfortunately has a mental illness.  Don't ever get into the blame game like all of our ex's do.  You are not dealing with a rational, logical person here.  These instances all come down to control and feeling good about ones self.  For your ex to feel good she will say you are bad.  Once you no longer accept those distorted thought patterns she will go to someone else to get them to say that you are bad.  Employer, Police, Court... .

She has escalated a fair bit so far.  As people here say, don't escalate, state facts, protect yourself.  Leave it up to them to escalate. 

Have a decision either way.  Stick to it and don't look back.  You want distance, need distance from this person who is threatening you and intimidating you.  Simply state that to the Police, I feel threatened by her behaviour, she has this pattern in every aspect of her life where she escalates, she has done XYZ and I am concerned for her at present because she is repeating that behaviour and making false accusations about me whilst harassing me.  I have tried to rationalize with her however she has done ABC.  I need to protect myself from this behaviour and the accusations she is making. 

AJJ. 

[HardLesson]

I agree with ALL of the responses as well. My BPDExw did assault me and then threatened to call the police on me if I didn't acquiesce to her demand. I left immediately and went to the police station. They went to the house and questioned her.  She admitted that she didn't know it was against the law to hit her husband, at which point they arrested her. She later tried to recant, but it was too late, they had it on video. So, what the other posts have said is true. The impulsiveness that goes with the disorder is unpredictable as to when and where it will happen, and then, anything is possible. You would be well advised to contact legal authority now and give them a "heads up". Then contact an attorney and your HR department to also let them know what is happening and get this on record and possibly send her notification that further contact with you will result in legal action.  It won't prevent the impulsiveness from taking place (because she can't stop it when it happens), but you will be protected.

[momtara]

Go to the cops and tell them all this.  You don't have to DO anything yet if you don't want, but see if you can file a statement.  She doesn't even have to know.

As far as I know, a DV hotline may counsel you, but I don't think they'd have an easy record to give you if she accused you of stuff. 

[ForeverDad]

A little background question might also help you.  You've known her for 10 years, together for two.  Did she have BFs during those 8 years?  How did they end?  Do you know if she took legal action against them?  I'm asking because a person will use tactics that have worked before.  If she's doing this to you, she's likely done it before and there might be police or court records.  If you can find court records of her filing allegations against prior BFs then you can expect her to treat you the same.  (Any prior cases you find might support you in case you need to (1) defend yourself from false allegations she makes or (2) show why you need protection from her.)

[maxen]

She admitted that she didn't know it was against the law to hit her husband

[Aussie JJ]

She admitted that she didn't know it was against the law to hit her husband

Maxen,

I love that gif... .  I will be borrowing it in the future. 


AJJ.  

[ogopogodude]

Boatman,

... .my advice (and everybody that has read my posts in the past --and gotten to know me-- is expecting this advice from me) is to BUY  high quality video equipment. Specifically for your vehicle.  It is called a car cam.

   I have the FineVu 500HD for the front windshield and one for the back window (to capture rear-enders). Money well spent. I bought this system not so much for capturing collisions but rather for domestic violence episodes. The system is under $500 and it has a 5 hour looping memory card (that you need not erase like a Go-Pro). It captures quality video (AND HIGH quality audio... !) of any situation that happens OUTSIDE the vehicle even in "park" mode (when there is nobody in the car and the car is locked).  I bought the system from black box my car .com (no spaces, ... .I did this b/c I am not sure whether we are allowed or not allowed by moderators to put links to businesses but I think that this may be excused and certainly an exception due to the whole idea of curbing violatile episodes). Trust me, ... it WORKS... at least in my situation.  I have no financial interest in this company. The guy's name is Alex. He knows car cams and knows them well.  I suspect that the reason why this Alex character chose this particular name for his business is likely he is equating the blackbox in an aeroplane that captures ALL data in a situation of a plane crash, etc.

   You indicated that your exBPD girlfriend "blocked you in" a parking lot. ... .guess what, ... .a car cam RECORDS all of that ... .and also the audio is excellent as well (it records yelling and screaming).   Also, it sounds corny but consider buying a Go-Pro and a chest mount.   

   Nobody likes to be videotaped when they are doing something illegal or something stupid, or bordering on harassment.  If your ex even suspects that you went to the extent of this system, ... .it is like mosquito repellent. 

  The above is just an idea that may or may not work in your situation. It worked wonders for me and it does the dual purpose of covering your butt in a car accident. Anyways, ... .just a thought.

   Your other neat option is to get the idea across to your ex that you are "taken" and unavailable.  Get a good looking relative like a cousin and explain the situation, and get her to act like your girlfriend. This may also act like mosquito spray, but not always.  This sometimes has the opposite effect.

   (Please simply read my suggestions and do not act on them with any seriousness.  My posting here is to lighten the mood on this thread. The car cam is a good idea, though... .) 

[boatman]

Hi again guys and thank you for taking the time to help me. 

About talking to the owner, it's worth thinking carefully before acting, but if you take the initiative - I did this, by the way - and give him the whole story, you will be controlling the way he first hears it, and that's probably best.  If you don't do that, and he hears the story from your ex, he may believe what she tells him, and you'll be on the defensive.  It's usually best to "get out front of the story" rather than have to react to the other party's spin.

I strongly agree with this but I'm terrified that the owner won't be receptive, or that he'll talk to my ex and other people in her department and they'll twist things around. I don't feel safe talking to him and I don't feel safe not.

It's classic DV thinking to worry that protecting yourself will invite something worse to happen. Document everything to within an inch of your life and set thick boundaries, and then take safety precautions. Don't put yourself in situations where you are alone with her, and if you feel your employer will not support you, think about looking for somewhere else to work.

I really think it might be coming to this. I've been thinking for a while now about going back to grad school and finishing my degree that I started 5 years ago. Maybe this situation with my ex is just the push I need to get it done.

About filing a police report:  It could go either way - the police may decide to contact her or they may not.  If you don't accuse her of a crime, or if you tell the police, "I wanted you to know this but I am not afraid of her so I'm not asking you to do anything at this point." they may take the path of least resistance and just file the report.  In my experience, in matters like this, the police do what they are required to do, and probably nothing more.

Go to the cops and tell them all this.  You don't have to DO anything yet if you don't want, but see if you can file a statement.  She doesn't even have to know.

I think this is the best option for me right now. I'm ashamed to say it but I'm afraid, I'm trying to work up the courage to go to the police and get this done but I'm so afraid of them contacting her and then it all going to hell.

A little background question might also help you.  You've known her for 10 years, together for two.  Did she have BFs during those 8 years?  How did they end?  Do you know if she took legal action against them?  I'm asking because a person will use tactics that have worked before.  If she's doing this to you, she's likely done it before and there might be police or court records.  If you can find court records of her filing allegations against prior BFs then you can expect her to treat you the same.  (Any prior cases you find might support you in case you need to (1) defend yourself from false allegations she makes or (2) show why you need protection from her.)

Her last bf is in jail now. She talked about some altercations they had (of course it was all his fault) but she always maintained that the police didn't help her in these situations. I've tried to check public records for anything on their altercations but couldn't find anything. I checked the local newspaper archive and found out he went to jail for doing things independent of her so it doesn't sound like she had anything to do with his incarceration. This is still a good point you bring up and it scares the hell out of me.

New development... .she sent me text messages yesterday basically avoiding any responsibility and trying to shift blame to me (as she usually does) but I didn't answer her. It's scary she's still trying to chase me down and even scarier to hear her twisting things around. I'm afraid of what she'll do next.

[livednlearned]

Going back to grad school is great idea -- doing something positive when you feel down will go a long way to helping you recover from this. I'm doing the same thing. I almost dropped out during my crisis but with the support of a lot of wonderful people, I stuck with it. And don't underestimate how toxic it can be to spend time in an environment where people don't support you, like your work environment. Take care of yourself. It goes a long way!

And there is nothing to be ashamed about feeling scared. BPD is a serious mental illness and it can wreak intolerable levels of havoc in people's lives.

[Matt]

Going back to grad school is great idea -- doing something positive when you feel down will go a long way to helping you recover from this. I'm doing the same thing. I almost dropped out during my crisis but with the support of a lot of wonderful people, I stuck with it. And don't underestimate how toxic it can be to spend time in an environment where people don't support you, like your work environment. Take care of yourself. It goes a long way!

And there is nothing to be ashamed about feeling scared. BPD is a serious mental illness and it can wreak intolerable levels of havoc in people's lives.

Yeah, anybody who has had a close relationship with someone who has BPD, and isn't getting the treatment they need, has felt a lot of confusion and fear.  Once you realize how different their thinking is, from ours and most other people, it's really pretty shocking and hard to believe.

However... .be careful about making decisions primarily out of fear.  It's good if the decision is how to protect yourselfg in some way - if fear causes you to take practical steps to make yourself more safe.  But making other primarily out of fear keeps you focused on the person with BPD and doesn't let you move forwad in a positive way.

In addition to grad school, are there other career opportunities that are positive steps you haven't taken?  Not going from an OK situation to a less-OK one in order to avoid talking to your boss, but finding a really good situation that you haven't been adequately motivated to pursue before now?

[maxen]

i third what the last two just said, boatman. we've all been afraid.

Once you realize how different their thinking is, from ours and most other people, it's really pretty shocking and hard to believe.

having experienced it during the marriage, i was terrorized of the interpretation my w could (and in some cases did) put on things after she bolted. it certainly affected my choices this last 18 months. somehow at each step i did what was in my interests, but having a lawyer to interpose between myself and the w, i simply can't put a value on it. i didn't catch it above - do you have a lawyer boatman?

[ogopogodude]

I love this BPD site as I get such great little gems (phrases, quotes, analogies) from other members.

Then I write them down and memorize them.

This is the best one this week"

"... There is nothing to be ashamed of about being scared. BPD is a serious mental illness and it can wreak intolerable levels of havoc in people's lives"... .