Observations of what simmers just under the surface

[Parents! Get help here!]

DH and I spent the evening with BPDSD23 last night. We were together for about five hours.

SD is a recovering addict- has been sober for 3-1/2 years now. She doesn't live with us, lives with a family member who doesn't charge her rent but otherwise SD pays her own way for her car, car insurance, cell phone, food, clothing, entertainment etc. SD has held the same job for about 1-1/2 years. We live in the same area (she lives in the next town over) but we don't see a lot of her. Her Dad has dinner with her a few times a month and we try to do something social with her once a month or so- she declines about half the time because she often has other social engagements and we end up seeing her (outside of the monthly dinners) about six or seven times a year.

SD is a hair puller (tricotillomania) and for the entire five hours we were together she "messed" with her hair. When we first hooked-up she had her hair in a really messy, unkempt bun. She started the hair pulling as soon as we sat down to order food by pulling a hank of hair out of the bun.Within half an hour or so she took all of her hair out of the bun and ran her fingers through her hair as if she were trying to "fix it". I commented on how pretty her hair is and this odd look came on her face... .she was freeing her hair for more pulling- not finally "tending" to her hair to be more put together which is what I thought she was doing. It must have been SOO invalidating to her to get the compliment when she had "bad intentions" for her hair.

The "tric" is a very repetitive behavior- in SD's case, there is an examination of the hair in a chosen section- pretty much strand by strand until she finds a hair with a "flaw", then she goes over this single hair several times- runs the strand through pinched fingers to fully separate it from any other hairs.  Only then will she pull it. She then bites off the end and flicks the hair away. And starts again. She has very thick, very long hair. If she sits in one place, when she leaves after doing this hair pulling ritual there will be a visible pile of hair.

It is always disturbing to me to see her pulling her hair but until last night I had not witnessed her doing so in public (we went to dinner and to a comedy club then out for pie afterwards). She was carrying on a conversation or laughing at the comedian and still, she was pulling. To me it seems very much like watching someone who is both very engaged in what is going on around her while at the same time in what looks like a trancelike behavior but still, strangely, fully engaged in the behavior.

I sat and focused on her as she and her Dad had a conversation about something trivial and I tried to see her as a stranger would see her. I was seeing someone who obviously has issues... .and yet the world doesn't really seem to notice. Of course, I'm not in other peoples heads but she does seem to fit herself in with her peers on a superficial level... .

I drove everyone in one car to the different locations we visited and she asked if she could smoke in my car. She knows I don't allow this. It was pretty strange that she asked and so it was obvious that she wanted me to know that she was feeling a lot of stress.

Some of this might be unresolved issues from her using days about being comfortable around me in general-( too complicated for mention here and now in this thread) or maybe something is going on in her personal life that I am unaware of. Right now she is announcing a lot of anxiety. Anxiety over things she has no control over such a ISIS and the recent outbreak of measles in our state. She was anxious that we would be late for the beginning of the comedy show we were going to because our food was late getting to our table.

She has come so far-working, sober, paying for herself, no more raging, and let me say it again, SOBER.

I can see though, she has so much unresolved stuff inside of her still. She no longer goes to therapy but she could afford it. It is mentioned now and then (she mentions feeling the need and her Dad might mention giving it another try). I have done my research on neurofeedback therapy at the suggestion of a member here and feel like this is the right time to bring this up. I feel like if she keeps going on like this, the anxiety can escalate and cause her further problems. God forbid a relapse. (her drug of choice was benzos- easy to see why)

I've mentioned neurofeedback therapy to her Dad. He has his reservations about a lot of things when it comes to her getting treatment. He is afraid she will get too "habituated or infatuated with"  this sort of therapy but from my understanding it is a very "end game" oriented treatment. She is doing so well in her life he doesn't want to rock the boat... .blecccchhhhh.

Where I have seen her grow is in maturity overall- we have gone from 7 (her behavioral age from 13-16) to 12 (her behavioral age from 17-20) to 18-23 (her behavioral age now). She tries to maintain even behavior. She goes to her AA meetings, she volunteers on her off time (this is new and just GREAT) and she has a nice balanced relationship with the family member with whom she lives. There are complaints but really nothing serious.

But still, there are such big stumbling blocks to her being healthy and truly happy in her life. She is single, never had a relationship partner although she is really interested in boys/men and has had some decent guys interested in her. (yeah, there is something really screwed up in her feelings about intimacy) she is very overweight to the point now where it is affecting her health- she is pre-diabetic and taking cholesterol drugs- yikes at 23.

So, having five hours of witnessing the stuff that simmers inside of her, I need today to begin the work of convincing her Dad that he needs to educate himself about the neurofeedback therapy ( you guys know what I mean?)

Wish me luck and thanks for letting me work this out a bit on paper... .and thanks for reading so many words!

thursday

[Thursday]

DH and I spent the evening with BPDSD23 last night. We were together for about five hours.

SD is a recovering addict- has been sober for 3-1/2 years now. She doesn't live with us, lives with a family member who doesn't charge her rent but otherwise SD pays her own way for her car, car insurance, cell phone, food, clothing, entertainment etc. SD has held the same job for about 1-1/2 years. We live in the same area (she lives in the next town over) but we don't see a lot of her. Her Dad has dinner with her a few times a month and we try to do something social with her once a month or so- she declines about half the time because she often has other social engagements and we end up seeing her (outside of the monthly dinners) about six or seven times a year.

SD is a hair puller (tricotillomania) and for the entire five hours we were together she "messed" with her hair. When we first hooked-up she had her hair in a really messy, unkempt bun. She started the hair pulling as soon as we sat down to order food by pulling a hank of hair out of the bun.Within half an hour or so she took all of her hair out of the bun and ran her fingers through her hair as if she were trying to "fix it". I commented on how pretty her hair is and this odd look came on her face... .she was freeing her hair for more pulling- not finally "tending" to her hair to be more put together which is what I thought she was doing. It must have been SOO invalidating to her to get the compliment when she had "bad intentions" for her hair.

The "tric" is a very repetitive behavior- in SD's case, there is an examination of the hair in a chosen section- pretty much strand by strand until she finds a hair with a "flaw", then she goes over this single hair several times- runs the strand through pinched fingers to fully separate it from any other hairs.  Only then will she pull it. She then bites off the end and flicks the hair away. And starts again. She has very thick, very long hair. If she sits in one place, when she leaves after doing this hair pulling ritual there will be a visible pile of hair.

It is always disturbing to me to see her pulling her hair but until last night I had not witnessed her doing so in public (we went to dinner and to a comedy club then out for pie afterwards). She was carrying on a conversation or laughing at the comedian and still, she was pulling. To me it seems very much like watching someone who is both very engaged in what is going on around her while at the same time in what looks like a trancelike behavior but still, strangely, fully engaged in the behavior.

I sat and focused on her as she and her Dad had a conversation about something trivial and I tried to see her as a stranger would see her. I was seeing someone who obviously has issues... .and yet the world doesn't really seem to notice. Of course, I'm not in other peoples heads but she does seem to fit herself in with her peers on a superficial level... .

I drove everyone in one car to the different locations we visited and she asked if she could smoke in my car. She knows I don't allow this. It was pretty strange that she asked and so it was obvious that she wanted me to know that she was feeling a lot of stress.

Some of this might be unresolved issues from her using days about being comfortable around me in general-( too complicated for mention here and now in this thread) or maybe something is going on in her personal life that I am unaware of. Right now she is announcing a lot of anxiety. Anxiety over things she has no control over such a ISIS and the recent outbreak of measles in our state. She was anxious that we would be late for the beginning of the comedy show we were going to because our food was late getting to our table.

She has come so far-working, sober, paying for herself, no more raging, and let me say it again, SOBER.

I can see though, she has so much unresolved stuff inside of her still. She no longer goes to therapy but she could afford it. It is mentioned now and then (she mentions feeling the need and her Dad might mention giving it another try). I have done my research on neurofeedback therapy at the suggestion of a member here and feel like this is the right time to bring this up. I feel like if she keeps going on like this, the anxiety can escalate and cause her further problems. God forbid a relapse. (her drug of choice was benzos- easy to see why)

I've mentioned neurofeedback therapy to her Dad. He has his reservations about a lot of things when it comes to her getting treatment. He is afraid she will get too "habituated or infatuated with"  this sort of therapy but from my understanding it is a very "end game" oriented treatment. She is doing so well in her life he doesn't want to rock the boat... .blecccchhhhh.

Where I have seen her grow is in maturity overall- we have gone from 7 (her behavioral age from 13-16) to 12 (her behavioral age from 17-20) to 18-23 (her behavioral age now). She tries to maintain even behavior. She goes to her AA meetings, she volunteers on her off time (this is new and just GREAT) and she has a nice balanced relationship with the family member with whom she lives. There are complaints but really nothing serious.

But still, there are such big stumbling blocks to her being healthy and truly happy in her life. She is single, never had a relationship partner although she is really interested in boys/men and has had some decent guys interested in her. (yeah, there is something really screwed up in her feelings about intimacy) she is very overweight to the point now where it is affecting her health- she is pre-diabetic and taking cholesterol drugs- yikes at 23.

So, having five hours of witnessing the stuff that simmers inside of her, I need today to begin the work of convincing her Dad that he needs to educate himself about the neurofeedback therapy ( you guys know what I mean?)

Wish me luck and thanks for letting me work this out a bit on paper... .and thanks for reading so many words!

thursday

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[trytrytry]

Thursday,

Great story.  Your daughter still suffers, but she has come so far-as have you.   It gives me hope for my DD28.

Thanks for sharing

[jellibeans]

Thursday... .your dd has come a long way. I see you feel very strongly about the neurofeedback... .can you tell me why? I know I have heard great things about it but do you feel this is the only thing that will help? And are you and you H still feeling like you need to be so heavily involved in her care?

I wonder if you have come to the point where you can truly accept her for who she is? She is not prefect and has problems but it is who she is. When is it time for us as parents to simply accept and create a bit of distance or maybe have her more in control?

I know you have been a wonderful supporting parent but I think of this often with my own dd17... .when is it time to let them live the life they choose with out judgement from us. That is a place I want to find so badly. To be in the middle and a place of peace.

[Thursday]

trytrytry and jellibeans,

Thanks for your replies. Jellibeans- below are answers to your questions- to the best of my ability.

The reason I am hoping that SD will be interested in neurofeedback therapy is that it is effective in helping to alleviate or ameliorate anxiety and SD is, well, even anxious about her anxiety.

DH and I are really no longer very hands on with her life except as concerned and interested parents. She is still a young adult who needs guidance. She seeks us out for guidance when she is struggling. She talks to her Dad far more than me and a major feature of their conversations often concerns her anxiety. In addition to her concerns about current events etc. is a tendency towards over concern and irrational thoughts about her own health ( a tummy ache is cancer, a headache is a brain tumor etc) and she goes to the emergency room quite frequently.

When we were struggling with her out of control behavior as a teenager we too would have been glad to have some peace and found it difficult to be so involved in her day to day- we spent many years upset and stressed out. We were able to find a place of medium chill for ourselves. We stepped back even more when she was in treatment for her addiction and in these years since she got sober. Her sobriety is her job and a job well done. Her sobriety has been a blessing in many unexpected ways and has given us a place to help her rebuild her self-esteem.

The years since she moved out have been a blessing to our marriage and to our relationship with her. Everyone has chilled out and our main goal has been to rebuild what was lost (trust for the most part) and most importantly to have a good relationship with her again. We are building this step by step and we are actually in a really good place. Her Dad still nags her too much but I can see she "likes" his naggy concerns for her and she and I even joke about him and with him about this a bit.

I can see how her anxiety affects her negatively. It is a piece of her life that could be greatly improved.  I think the neurofeedback therapy would give her a bit of mastery over this troubling aspect of her life and since this is non invasive and another tool she could use I would at very least like her to investigate it. Our family structure is that her Dad would be the one to bring this up to her, to suggest it, to have the answers to her questions at the ready should she decide to take advantage of it. When she is having a crisis of overwhelming anxiety he then would have something to suggest as a solution or at least as a help.

are you and your H still feeling like you need to be so heavily involved in her care?

DH and I don't feel like we need to be  heavily involved in her care. She is managing her own life in a way that works for her. The amped up trichotillomania tells me she is struggling inside. She doesn't know that NFT is a tool that could help... .she doesn't tend to seek outside help without a nudge from a mentor. She has quit therapy and thus doesn't get much input about therapeutic options in her daily life... .she is a young person who hangs out with other young people so it's not likely that there is much talk about how to deal with debilitating anxiety/ she is not even likely to discuss her anxiety with her peers. She has a new AA sponsor but we aren't privy to exactly what they discuss and right now, from what I've been told, she and her sponsor are doing "step work" and her sponsor is very "step driven" which is great for SD and her progress as a sober human being but chances are anxiety is not being discussed.

Lots of words above to explain- more simply put- we HAVE come a long way. We are at the point now where we can give some input and not have it go haywire or cause a rage or meltdown. All of this good stuff has come about because we pulled back and worked on learning tools for communicating with her in a way that didn't keep all three of us fired up.

I well remember what it was like when she was a teenager and we were investigating residential treatment, doing what we could in an amped up state to help her. There were so many problems (we used to call it the "daily escalation" and the options for what we could do to help her were just plain overwhelming. Some sounded good and were not and some were unexpected and far more effective. I think everyone here, no matter how difficult their BPD loved one is, wants the best for them.

These days it is a gentler world and so much happier overall... .and I hope everyone on this board can find this same sort of peace with their beloved but troubled children.

Thursday