So what happens when they finally submit to therapy?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I had heard that my ex went to a T... .I am sure that it was under the guise of whatever I did to victimize her... .I realize that a bad T might pander to that and she would never make progress... .but  a good therapist would be able to see under the facade and determine what is REALLY going on... .what happens then? I mean what does the T guide them towards? Does any one have experience in this respect? I'm curious... .

[JRT]

I had heard that my ex went to a T... .I am sure that it was under the guise of whatever I did to victimize her... .I realize that a bad T might pander to that and she would never make progress... .but  a good therapist would be able to see under the facade and determine what is REALLY going on... .what happens then? I mean what does the T guide them towards? Does any one have experience in this respect? I'm curious... .

[Targeted]

Unfortunately even a amazing T would have a extremely difficult time seeing underneath the facade and determine what is really going on unless she wants him to!  Even if the amazing T manages to see behind the facade and determine what exactly is going on she will most likely devalue and discard the T if she did not want him to see that, it's all up to her what is going to happen, not the t

[JRT]

I can see that... .but lets say the she is honest with the T and REALLY wants help. (to this end, I do believe that mine has no idea why she is doing what she is doing and really wants help... .she might lead off with me as the antagonist but I am pretty sure that she will tell them what is on her mind).

[Blimblam]

Jrt if she's really trying to heal then she will go through a process of creating bond with the therapist then work on different things based on the type of therapy she is in.   When they start getting the deeper layers it is very painful for the pwBPD and they may want to or actually quit.  Typically they will work on finding healthier adaptable strategies.  Teaching them to self soothe. Some of them make a lot of progress some don't. 

[Targeted]

Is she doing this for herself or for your relationship? From all accounts that I have read unless she is doing this for herself then nothing will most likely happen other than manipulation and devaluation, I did a fair amount of reading on this because for quite some time I held out hope my ex would go, it appears to me and this is only my own conclusion if she were to take it seriously she would have to develop a relationship with the T and the T would first have to build trust.  This takes time, not to mention that the T has his or her own team of T's to keep their head straight while dealing with somebody like this, once the trust is built they have established their relationship. this is as serious of a relationship as the one you want, the T is basically in your position only he or she has to try to help her Face things she does not want to face which is going to cause disregulation and him or her being split black, devalued and discarded because your ex still works the way she does and he or she has to also keep your ex coming back to stick with therapy, it looks to me that even if she takes this seriously and refuses to give up therapy and you are sticking with her through it? When she needs to split the therapist black and devalue him or her but cannot because of her wanting to get better she will turn that on her closest Target. that's you! in my assumation of a successful relationship in the end, you are going to have to meet her in the middle as far as the disorder is concerned, you will have to retrain your brain and use all the tools you can learn while bearing the brunt of the storm, now that she is working on herself And admits her problem The possibility of it being a well used excuse for poor behaviour in my guess would be a given, she is not going to get help for a little depression or a addiction here, she has to get help to change her whole reality, it would be like taking you to therapy to Retrain you that the sky is green and you're lawn is blue, and now you have to mow the sky. the T's relationship being subject to everything that you were is also subject to recycling, she could quit during a emotional Fart. And then go back to it! They are just too emotionally unpredictable to tell, she could say she wants it right now but when she gets into it it could be a whole other story, in my understanding if you make it through all of that crap you are looking at about two years before improvement! that is far from being cured! relapses and regressions are very common. It is still a push-pull dynamic in getting better and there are zero guarantees. If you read on the staying board nobody is happily laying in a field of daisies enjoying the sunshine, I am sure they all have all of the T's, Cbt, Dbt and every other letter variable with a T in it that they are using, from what I understand The DBT therapy can be quite costly, this will not only be a serious emotional investment but a financial one as well, after all of that what's go under the assumption she has changed, she has found a identity, she has now become a person, she is better just like you wanted! The Brand new person that you helped create with all of your efforts and hard work and financial contributions as well as sacrifices of your happiness to work with her could still decide now that she is healed and better that you and her are not a match!   that's what I came up with in my learning, I would not blame you for trying because I would have, but there is also reality!.

[JRT]

As far as I understand, she is doing it for herself... .I have not spoken with her in 5 months. Mine will likely never contact... .I was just curious.

[jhkbuzz]

As far as I understand, she is doing it for herself... .I have not spoken with her in 5 months. Mine will likely never contact... .I was just curious.

Mine started therapy a year before we broke up.  Was happy to go, liked her therapist, found therapy painful but was happy to be making 'progress'.  No diagnosis given (that I know of) up to the point that we broke up.

None of this ^ changed her behavior. She lied continually and only admitted to an affair when I found evidence and backed her into a corner (and at this point she had been in therapy for almost a year).

Don't torture yourself with thoughts that she will be a magically "changed" and healthy person simply because she's started therapy. 

[hope2727]

As far as I understand, she is doing it for herself... .I have not spoken with her in 5 months. Mine will likely never contact... .I was just curious.

Mine started therapy a year before we broke up.  Was happy to go, liked her therapist, found therapy painful but was happy to be making 'progress'.  No diagnosis given (that I know of) up to the point that we broke up.

None of this ^ changed her behavior. She lied continually and only admitted to an affair when I found evidence and backed her into a corner (and at this point she had been in therapy for almost a year).

Don't torture yourself with thoughts that she will be a magically "changed" and healthy person simply because she's started therapy. 

This was my experience too. Mine was in therapy before meeting me for depression according to him although who knows. He has a lot of BPD therapy language even then. He went to therapy for a bit while with me and is now in therapy intensively. It has not changed his actions at all. Actions are all that count. Words are just air. Nothing more.

I too prayed for therapy to "save" our relationship. I think it is a long journey and many don't ever reach the end. All we can do is pray they get some relief from their symptoms. I don't think mine will ever be "cured".  I pray he will be "relieved" of his torture one day. It will be to late for me but perhaps he will find peace.

[downwhim]

I would love to think that they can be cured from the prison that they live in and from hurting others. From what I have read DBT is in patient or out depending on the severity. It takes a total commitment many times a week. It can also take years.

I know my ex BPD fiancé well enough that he would never agree to this. He would get angry with the T and not follow through.

I too had hoped that he would get help and life would be good. I honestly do not think that he sees there is any real problem with himself. It is me.

[Leaving]

As far as I understand, she is doing it for herself... .I have not spoken with her in 5 months. Mine will likely never contact... .I was just curious.

Mine started therapy a year before we broke up.  Was happy to go, liked her therapist, found therapy painful but was happy to be making 'progress'.  No diagnosis given (that I know of) up to the point that we broke up.

None of this ^ changed her behavior. She lied continually and only admitted to an affair when I found evidence and backed her into a corner (and at this point she had been in therapy for almost a year).

Don't torture yourself with thoughts that she will be a magically "changed" and healthy person simply because she's started therapy. 

This was my experience too. Mine was in therapy before meeting me for depression according to him although who knows. He has a lot of BPD therapy language even then. He went to therapy for a bit while with me and is now in therapy intensively. It has not changed his actions at all. Actions are all that count. Words are just air. Nothing more.

I too prayed for therapy to "save" our relationship. I think it is a long journey and many don't ever reach the end. All we can do is pray they get some relief from their symptoms. I don't think mine will ever be "cured".  I pray he will be "relieved" of his torture one day. It will be to late for me but perhaps he will find peace.

Hope, I wonder if they would notice their symptoms or feel any discomfort if they were not in an intimate relationship?  I would guess that most people with PD's manage to work and play without anyone reacting harshly and causing them discomfort.   I know my husband didn't have true friends or any deep relationships with women until I came along and he lived a very 'happy' irresponsible life with others who basically took care of everything for him.   He had girlfriends but no one ' special' and they had the good sense to leave in the early stages.  He seems to work fine with people most of the time with a bump in the road every so often that could be interpreted as him being in a bad mood that day while he interprets that discomfort as being caused by other people. He truly has no insight into himself and how he affects anyone or how he affects his own well-being.  I would bet my husband could lead a relatively normal life as long as there is no other invested person who has 'normal'  expectations of what he should be.  Other people don't expect the same things and this is why other people never saw the real man behind the curtain like I did.  No one saw how irresponsible, negligent and abusive he was.  No one noticed how his addictive personality  would lead to extreme agitation and destructive behaviors. No one cared about his truly insane, illogical and unreasonable comments during conversations because they would just ignore him.  If I knew my husband as an outsider, I could easily overlook his strangeness and be acquaintances with him.  As a wife, it was terribly defeating and destructive for me to tolerate any of it.  

[hope2727]

Leaving,

Mine had a few long term friends and some were real losers who enabled and used him. Others were nice people who either enabled or seemed to be oblivious to his weird behaviours. His family is a grab bag of massive dysfunction. They have addictions, mental illness and everything in-between. He is the "normal one". He looks great while standing next to them. So he always gets to feel superior.

His work however is another matter. He was fired from his position once and appealed the dismissal. He won. They didn't have a position for him at the time but when an appropriate job came up he was only one of 2 applicants. The other was wholly unqualified so my ex got the position. Now he has already been put on review for not getting his work assignments done. He of course blamed "relationship  stresses". He is currently with a new true love and so he will be on a biochemical high that may sustain him for awhile but I suspect when that ends he'll screw up at work again. They will only tolerate it so long. When he is criticized at work he gets super upset. He would come home and tell me he was terrible at his job and should quit because he is just worthless. He would also tell me how he was the best at his job and irreplaceable. Very black and white I know.

He works with his totally narcissistic best friend who basically abuses my ex. Sometimes my ex will admit this and sometimes not. Its sad to watch. I sincerely think my ex suffers everyday all day with the exception of when he is on a high from a new true love. I wouldn't want to be him for a second. I just hope he manages to embrace this therapy once and for all and get some lasting help. I don't have a lot of confidence though. I suspect the new love will implode and then it will be back to the suicidal thoughts and woe is me part of the cycle. We shall see. She is exactly the opposite of me... .very high maintenance and super thin, pretty, fit. I suspect she is going to crash and burn fast and nasty. But who knows. Not my circus not my monkeys.

[jhkbuzz]

Hope, I wonder if they would notice their symptoms or feel any discomfort if they were not in an intimate relationship?  I would guess that most people with PD's manage to work and play without anyone reacting harshly and causing them discomfort.  

This ^ is often true.  Intimate relationships trigger the disorder.

[Haye]

I think it depends on the person. And on the individual therapist, the method she/he is using. Also on the people around that person, whether they support the progress or make it worse, etc. It's impossilbe to predict really, but there is chance for a true change as well.

My pwBPD saught help for his issues about year and a half ago when we had a major split. I urged him to do it, if not for himself then at least for the sake of the new lady in his life (and to those who are likely to follow her). I was very strict and even a bit harsh on drawing a boundary (none of us knew how badly injured he was) and all that threw him badly off balance. Getting help wasn't easy. He tried telling the first GP he met all the darkness going on, but that doctor assumed he was a junkie trying to get bescribed meds and send him off. It took a lot of trying; saw many mental health care professional and... .Goodness, some of them were simply just lazy, lousy and bad at their job, and some were frighteningly deranged   Madder than their patients... . 

Year ago he found his first decent contact, unfortunately it was only for a short period only. But she was the first who actually looked at his case truly, listened to him, and also dug out a lot. He has now a wonderful T who works closely with his psychiatrist. Things started to improve after that fast. So fast that we both feared some relapse and well we've seen that too now. But things are still improving. I think the major change initially was that he took responsibility for his actions, although at this point it is still very difficult for him to change how he behaves, he tries. It's like turning against a powerful river current and starting to walk against it. Difficult. He is not doing it for himself, not yet, he's doing it because he doesn't want to hurt people he likes.  

... .My point being that a change is possible. It's difficult and rare, but it's possible. (while i was writing this many new posts came, but i'm posting this anyways.)

[jhkbuzz]

I think it depends on the person. And on the individual therapist, the method she/he is using. Also on the people around that person, whether they support the progress or make it worse, etc. It's impossilbe to predict really, but there is chance for a true change as well.

My pwBPD saught help for his issues about year and a half ago when we had a major split. I urged him to do it, if not for himself then at least for the sake of the new lady in his life (and to those who are likely to follow her). I was very strict and even a bit harsh on drawing a boundary (none of us knew how badly injured he was) and all that threw him badly off balance. Getting help wasn't easy. He tried telling the first GP he met all the darkness going on, but that doctor assumed he was a junkie trying to get bescribed meds and send him off. It took a lot of trying; saw many mental health care professional and... .Goodness, some of them were simply just lazy, lousy and bad at their job, and some were frighteningly deranged   Madder than their patients... . 

Year ago he found his first decent contact, unfortunately it was only for a short period only. But she was the first who actually looked at his case truly, listened to him, and also dug out a lot. He has now a wonderful T who works closely with his psychiatrist. Things started to improve after that fast. So fast that we both feared some relapse and well we've seen that too now. But things are still improving. I think the major change initially was that he took responsibility for his actions, although at this point it is still very difficult for him to change how he behaves, he tries. It's like turning against a powerful river current and starting to walk against it. Difficult. He is not doing it for himself, not yet, he's doing it because he doesn't want to hurt people he likes.  

... .My point being that a change is possible. It's difficult and rare, but it's possible. (while i was writing this many new posts came, but i'm posting this anyways.)

I do believe change is possible... .I didn't mean to imply that it isn't.  I was addressing what I perceived to be the original poster's unnamed fear (that since is ex was getting into therapy that she might be healed).  It seems to be a common fear among non's.  Or a common hope, actually.  I was very happy that my ex got into therapy - I really believed it had the potential to heal her and change our r/s for the better.  Imagine how devastated I was at the end to discover that she was still lying continually, despite being in treatment.

I do believe healing is possible - but it isn't easy, takes a very long time, and there are no guaranteed happy outcomes.

[JRT]

For me it is not a fear. Mine was not a classic BPD, she was a waif so there was no raging and such - it was actually a very pleasant r/s. Hence, I really don't have a problem with her contacted me whether she is seeing a T or not, though I suspect that she never will.

I have found the topic to be, frankly, interesting and learning about it to be gratifying in a way as well as helping understand it helps to assuage my hurt though diminishing over time. I just asked the question because I was curious: lots is said here about them going to T's but I merely wanted to know what the T's approach is towards therapy; literally what happens to them during their appointments and such.

[ADecadeLost]

Mine saw a couple of Ts over the years.  The first at my forcing early in the relationship (I told her "get help or I'm gone.".  This one didn't help much.  She did diagnose her with BPD, but did nothing more than write her a prescription to help deal with it and send her on her way.  It had a numbing effect on her, but really didn't help in any long term way.

The second (started about two years ago) specialized in DBT and seems to be helping.  At a minimum, she's become more self-aware and has begun to learn coping methods.  There's still plenty of BPD in her personality, and there are plenty of core wounds she has left to address, but small steps are a plus for her.  So yes, it can help to a degree, but how much is dependent on the pwBPDs willingness to work on themselves.

[Reforming]

I agree with the other posters that change is possible, though certainly not easy.

They need to try and begin taking responsibility for themselves, no small thing, they need access to the right therapy, which can be very difficult in many places, and they need to work with a good therapist and stick with it

I agree with Haye that there's a lot of dud ones out there.

Even if they tick all these boxes there are no guarantees that they'll end up with the same partners. When they change, their needs change and they can often discover that their old partner is no longer the right fit. Though there are some couples on this site who managed to work through therapy and stay together. Typically the NON did a lot of work themselves with their own T

Either way from what I've read and heard I think partners and exes need to detach from the outcome of their therapy, not impossible maybe but incredibly difficult if you're still emotionally involved.

Reforming

[jhkbuzz]

Mine was not a classic BPD, she was a waif so there was no raging and such

Same here.

[Rise]

... .but  a good therapist would be able to see under the facade and determine what is REALLY going on... .what happens then?

What happens is going to be whatever your ex wants to happen. The "problem" with therapy (and it's really not a problem with the therapy, it's a problem with us) is that a lot of people don't really understand the role of therapy. They think that someone gets into therapy, and the therapist will fix everything for us. But that's not what a therapist is there to do. A therapist doesn't heal us, they help us heal ourselves. The single greatest therapist in the world can only go as deep as their patient wants to go. Therapy is a tool, not a cure. And like all tools, it's up to us how we use them. Simply giving someone a hammer doesn't build a house. If all your ex wants to do is address her surface issues, and talk about her day to day gripes, that's all that's going to happen no matter how good her therapist is. If she wants to get to the core issues she has that are really impacting her life and her relationships, that's what she'll do.

[HappyNihilist]

At a minimum, she's become more self-aware and has begun to learn coping methods.  There's still plenty of BPD in her personality, and there are plenty of core wounds she has left to address, but small steps are a plus for her.  So yes, it can help to a degree, but how much is dependent on the pwBPDs willingness to work on themselves.

This is similar to my exBPDbf. He did years of therapy, and he is very high-functioning outside of intimate relationships. Like your exgf - more self-aware, better coping methods, etc. But that BPD is still very much there. He's just not willing to go to the depths required to overcome it. He said of his decade of therapy - "it all just made me feel very small."

[Leaving]

At a minimum, she's become more self-aware and has begun to learn coping methods.  There's still plenty of BPD in her personality, and there are plenty of core wounds she has left to address, but small steps are a plus for her.  So yes, it can help to a degree, but how much is dependent on the pwBPDs willingness to work on themselves.

This is similar to my exBPDbf. He did years of therapy, and he is very high-functioning outside of intimate relationships. Like your exgf - more self-aware, better coping methods, etc. But that BPD is still very much there. He's just not willing to go to the depths required to overcome it. He said of his decade of therapy - "it all just made me feel very small."

The issue I ran into when my husband was in therapy was that he interpreted everything the therapist said through his own narcissistic lens and oh my gosh did that result in creating a monster. I don't mean to insult any therapists who may be reading but most therapists don't have the required skill it takes when dealing with this type of PD.  My own therapist told me that she won't see patients who are narcissists and have BPD.   During his therapy, my husband became less passive aggressive and very aggressive- constantly baiting me into an altercation by verbally attacking me, psychotic at times doing the most bizarre things and making up very bizarre stories about me ( telling me things that were so over the top bizarre and untrue) very physically detached/antisocial in that he wouldn't even come into the house for most of the day on his days off.  Then he developed obsessions with infomercials on health and new age religious gurus and would watch them several times a day on youtube. He would cycle between binging and anorexia, became obsessed with is appearance and began posturing in an aggressive puffed up way and almost constantly accused me of being jealous of him.  He also became obsessed with Facebook, developed a strange twitch in his face.  There were many more bizarre behaviors.  It became so unsettling and frightening that my therapist had to contact his and tell her what was happening.

I think it's best for all of us to realize that even if therapy can help, it will require a loong time and we must ask ourselves if we are willing to wait that long. For a person to go from zero insight into oneself to having insight, is huge and therapy doesn't help anyone unless they have insight.

[Haye]

Mine was not a classic BPD, she was a waif so there was no raging and such

Same here.

Yup, mine too. A self-reflective waif. Like JRT's ex he was rather pleasent to live with, no raging etc. Even with his quirknesses and emotional roller-coaster... .Which were quite challenging.

I'm starting to wonder if BPD Waif's are a bit more ready to work on themselves than, say someone with more narcissitic traits? Pretty much all his anger is towards himself, and feels himself as a completely rotten person; which is probably why he was more ready to accept responsibility for his actions than average BPD's seem.

Jhkbuzz, I wasn't commenting your post, but JRT's as a whole. I'm sorry i didn't mark it better. I'm so agreeing with you on the intimacy and closeness of a deep relationship being the trigger. My pwBPD has been said to have huge attachment difficulties behind him, deeply rooted and coming from the early stages of life. Deep affection, love & deep attachement is something he can't do. Might be able for a while, but it takes a toll on him and the result is him distancing himself hard and far .

[jhkbuzz]

Mine was not a classic BPD, she was a waif so there was no raging and such

Same here.

Yup, mine too. A self-reflective waif. Like JRT's ex he was rather pleasent to live with, no raging etc. Even with his quirknesses and emotional roller-coaster... .Which were quite challenging.

I'm starting to wonder if BPD Waif's are a bit more ready to work on themselves than, say someone with more narcissitic traits? Pretty much all his anger is towards himself, and feels himself as a completely rotten person; which is probably why he was more ready to accept responsibility for his actions than average BPD's seem.

This might be the case, but their disordered thinking keeps them from recognizing the actual problem.  They feel such a deep sense of shame about who they are that it's very difficult for them to take responsibility for any length of time because this would 'prove' that their deep sense of unworthiness is warranted. Most of us wouldn't agree to take on the weight of that shame either... .but this is the difference: when I do something that doesn't align with my values I feel guilt ("ohmigod, that's not who I am or who I want to be; I'm going to apologize and work hard to never do that again". Instead of guilt they feel shame ("ohmigod that proves that I'm the worthless piece of ___ that my internal voice has always told me that I am".  Rather than remain in that painful state, they project and cast blame outward.

Jhkbuzz, I wasn't commenting your post, but JRT's as a whole. I'm sorry i didn't mark it better. I'm so agreeing with you on the intimacy and closeness of a deep relationship being the trigger. My pwBPD has been said to have huge attachment difficulties behind him, deeply rooted and coming from the early stages of life. Deep affection, love & deep attachment is something he can't do. Might be able for a while, but it takes a toll on him and the result is him distancing himself hard and far .

Yes ^ same experience here.

[Mustbeabetterway]

I know the healing process takes deep committment.  As the codependent, caretaking spouse of uBPDh, I am working on my own issues.  Getting better is hard work.  My s/o and I began mc and just when we were beginning to uncover some major reasons for our lack of effective communication, he quit.  Guess it is just too uncomfortable. 

The real thing, in my humble opinion, is that we are all so determined to get help for our s/o.  We want healing so bad for them and for ourselves, and our children.  As many of you have said, they have to want it for themselves.

It has been my experience, keeping my boundaries strong, working on my own healing has created a change in him.  I have to say I think this is because I  am doing it for myself.  To being healing to myself. 

I finally, after many years, realized that I am unable to change him.  If he is in therapy, out of therapy - whatever he does, I am moving forward with my own recovery.

[Suzn]

JRT I think it would be safe to say that therapists are trained to recognize patterns of behavior. What we have to keep in mind is that a therapist only sees a patient for 50 minutes, once a week or maybe biweekly. So it can take a long time to get to know a patient. And if that patient doesn't know about BPD traits in themselves, which takes a lot of honesty and self awareness, then who knows how long it could take.

Not to mention, not all pwBPD are the same, not all therapists approach to therapy are the same so the variations in a therapeutic setting could be vast.

I think your question is a pretty normal one to be curious about however it's a difficult one to answer. We can play a multitude of scenarios in our minds about what is being said about us. I'll share what my T told me about what other people think of me. "It's none of your business what other people think of you. Someone else's thoughts are their own."

You don't know what is being said so it's counterproductive to your recovery to spend a lot of time worrying about the many, many possibilities. We ALL played a role in our dysfunctional relationships. Identifying and taking ownership of our part is a courageous and mature step.