Lateness - my time is more important than yours

[Depression = 72% of members]

My exBPD and her mother famously also was late, and not a little late, a lot late (hours) for everything ibc meeting me but also for work or family members she claims to love. I would see her smirking and revelling in annoying her sisters by making them wait for her all the time like she was getting off on the control. She is so frickin sad!

In any case, I went on a series of dates with a woman last week and she progressively later for each, for the third and final date I picked a place I knew was less than 5 min walk from her apartment and she was still 40 minutes late. No text until she got there saying 'im here'. By which time I had already left and decided to go for dinner by myself. Needless to say the romance ended there.

For me, being late without reason continually is narcissistic, it's akin to saying that 'my time is more important than yours'. Maybe ive become very hard after my nightmare life with ex wife and my BS limiter is super low, but respect is A for me now. I am amazed at how many people there are out there without basic respects.

Is lateness a BPD narc trait?

Do you tolerate it? Are u always late?

[Trog]

My exBPD and her mother famously also was late, and not a little late, a lot late (hours) for everything ibc meeting me but also for work or family members she claims to love. I would see her smirking and revelling in annoying her sisters by making them wait for her all the time like she was getting off on the control. She is so frickin sad!

In any case, I went on a series of dates with a woman last week and she progressively later for each, for the third and final date I picked a place I knew was less than 5 min walk from her apartment and she was still 40 minutes late. No text until she got there saying 'im here'. By which time I had already left and decided to go for dinner by myself. Needless to say the romance ended there.

For me, being late without reason continually is narcissistic, it's akin to saying that 'my time is more important than yours'. Maybe ive become very hard after my nightmare life with ex wife and my BS limiter is super low, but respect is A for me now. I am amazed at how many people there are out there without basic respects.

Is lateness a BPD narc trait?

Do you tolerate it? Are u always late?

[Pingo]

Hi Trog, the two people in my life with possible BPD (both undiagnosed) are my mother and my exh... .they are both extremely punctual, with little tolerance for anyone else who is late. They are both control freaks as well. But I get what you are saying about them perhaps doing it to show their time is more important. I have a sweet, dear friend who is consistently late. I've known her for nearly 30 yrs and she has never changed. She is definitely not disordered and doesn't have many narc traits so I have no idea what this is about. She always apologises but sort of expects you to tolerate it as you know that is how she is. Not in an overtly arrogant way.  I suspect it's a passive aggressive way to express unhappiness somehow. Maybe like procrastination. I'm curious what others have to say about this.

[HappyNihilist]

Hi Trog, the two people in my life with possible BPD (both undiagnosed) are my mother and my exh... .they are both extremely punctual, with little tolerance for anyone else who is late. They are both control freaks as well.

My exBPDbf was also a control freak, extremely punctual and had very little tolerance for anyone being late.

I have a sweet, dear friend who is consistently late. I've known her for nearly 30 yrs and she has never changed. She is definitely not disordered and doesn't have many narc traits so I have no idea what this is about. She always apologises but sort of expects you to tolerate it as you know that is how she is. Not in an overtly arrogant way.  I suspect it's a passive aggressive way to express unhappiness somehow. Maybe like procrastination. I'm curious what others have to say about this.

I myself am more like your friend, Pingo. I'm occasionally punctual, sometimes even early, but I run late most of the time. I don't know really what it is - I can be a huge flake, and time gets away from me.

It's certainly not that I feel my time is more important than anyone else's -- in fact, I consistently feel the opposite, and hate that I'm a burden or inconvenience of any sorts on other people, especially people I care about, which is why I often just withdraw and don't make plans to begin with. Perhaps it is a passive-aggressive expression of a deeper unhappiness in my soul.

[tjay933]

my BPD was and is rarely on time. rush around at the last minute and still be late. could have all day to get dressed and still be late. i'm with you on the punctuality. shows respect for the other party no matter who they are or what the occasion.

[hope2727]

Everyone has days and times that they are late. I am notoriously overbooked and under supported so sometimes I am late. The running joke at my place of work is that I lived 10 minutes away for 10 years and was supposed to be there at 7:30 AM but usually rolled in at 8:00 or 8:05. Now I live an hourish drive away and still roll in at 8:00 ish at best. I do however work through luck and stay late as needed to get the job done. I figure any day I beat the boss to work is an on time day. He has accepted this as I am a reliable employee who goes the extra mile once I am there.

Chronic extreme lateness however is simply rude and disrespectful. I have gotten up and gone home if a date is late and doesn't text to let me know. I make every effort to be on time for appointments and social engagements. If I absolutely have to be late I let the person know. Do not settle for less respect than you deserve. We teach people how to treat us. I got up and left a project once when my ex was rude to me and he NEVER pulled that garbage again. I wish I had been strong enough to do that more in my relationship. If I ever date again I will be the ultimate in don't waste my time. Respect is earned and being on time is just a basic form of respect.

[pessim-optimist]

Hm... guilty as charged: I have historically been chronically late. And I can see how people waiting can feel disrespected and it has always made me feel guilty.

Years ago, when we were teenagers, friends that knew me well and liked me have even told my mom to tell me the train was leaving 30 mins before it actually did, just so they could be sure I didn't miss it. I sprinted to the train station, I was sure I was there two mins before the train was supposed to leave - and the station was empty. I almost had a heart-attack (I thought that the train was early and that I missed it). When I went to ask the attendant, he told me that the train wasn't scheduled to be there for another 30 mins. Then, one by one, my friends slowly started to gather. I was so angry with them, but they told me they were afraid I'd be late and they really wanted me with them. Ok, I thought, fair enough.

I have been married for over 12 years now to a wonderful man who is punctual, so I try to be better and I have improved a lot.

It's always been an issue with me. I don't know why, exactly, although there are a couple of reasons that might contribute to it:

I hate waiting. My uBPDm's neurotic punctuality and her being early everywhere followed by awkward and boring wait. Also, my grandma took care of me a lot of the time when I was little and she was also usually very early (and I was very bored).

I hate getting up early - so every minute I can keep snoozing is treasured.

So, my intent was to be right on time and I was trying to use my time efficiently, but my timing was usually unrealistic, and most of the time I'd end up being late. 

On the other hand, my friends knew that I was chronically late and that I did not expect them to wait for me. I encouraged them to move on and start with whatever they were planning and I'd join them, which usually worked fine, because these were mostly group activities.

I think it is about respect for others and also about efficient time-management. I've had a problem with managing my time realistically with no ill intent. But I have also not let my love wait longer than 15 mins, and I keep official appointments on time (I guess my fear has kept me in line there). 

[BorisAcusio]

Hi Trog, the two people in my life with possible BPD (both undiagnosed) are my mother and my exh... .they are both extremely punctual, with little tolerance for anyone else who is late. They are both control freaks as well.

My exBPDbf was also a control freak, extremely punctual and had very little tolerance for anyone being late.

I have a sweet, dear friend who is consistently late. I've known her for nearly 30 yrs and she has never changed. She is definitely not disordered and doesn't have many narc traits so I have no idea what this is about. She always apologises but sort of expects you to tolerate it as you know that is how she is. Not in an overtly arrogant way.  I suspect it's a passive aggressive way to express unhappiness somehow. Maybe like procrastination. I'm curious what others have to say about this.

I myself am more like your friend, Pingo. I'm occasionally punctual, sometimes even early, but I run late most of the time. I don't know really what it is - I can be a huge flake, and time gets away from me.

It's certainly not that I feel my time is more important than anyone else's -- in fact, I consistently feel the opposite, and hate that I'm a burden or inconvenience of any sorts on other people, especially people I care about, which is why I often just withdraw and don't make plans to begin with. Perhaps it is a passive-aggressive expression of a deeper unhappiness in my soul.

I can relate to that, HappyNihilist. It may be tied to general dissatisfaction.

I was known for being chronically late all my life, and simultaneously, battling with depression. Looking back the idealization phase, I actually got that completely sorted out, life seemed affirmed, and the reward was out there "waiting", I just had to travel a few hours to meet her. Later as things started to deteriorate, and the rewarding parts was no longer present, I was still punctual because of the fear of retaliation, as she was raging out of proportion for being late.

Was your time management more efficient in the idealization phase?

[Trog]

You're all tardy!

I think the rule applies to many types of behaviour (rule... .My new rule! Not an actual rule of law). Not paying people back timely... .Disrespectful, parking badly, walking two abreast so I have to step into the road, taking ages to find your damned credit cards in your wallet while stood at the atm. People... .All walking bollards interrupting my day! Move! Tourists with cameras!

... .my father would say.

So I wont! There's another 'therapy nugget' for Friday.

How do you guys get to therapy? They are very particular about time keeping!

[Rifka]

My exBPD and her mother famously also was late, and not a little late, a lot late (hours) for everything ibc meeting me but also for work or family members she claims to love. I would see her smirking and revelling in annoying her sisters by making them wait for her all the time like she was getting off on the control. She is so frickin sad!

In any case, I went on a series of dates with a woman last week and she progressively later for each, for the third and final date I picked a place I knew was less than 5 min walk from her apartment and she was still 40 minutes late. No text until she got there saying 'im here'. By which time I had already left and decided to go for dinner by myself. Needless to say the romance ended there.

For me, being late without reason continually is narcissistic, it's akin to saying that 'my time is more important than yours'. Maybe ive become very hard after my nightmare life with ex wife and my BS limiter is super low, but respect is A for me now. I am amazed at how many people there are out there without basic respects.

Is lateness a BPD narc trait?

Do you tolerate it? Are u always late?

Totally agree with you, I just would have eaten by myself by the second lateness. I am always on time or early. I find somebody being late totally rude and will tolerate it once, second time is last time. I have discarded many people from my life for not being respectful of my time. I can be on time, so can they! This is a boundary I have always maintained. Habitually late people need to start earlier to be at the agreed time on time or they are disrespecting the other persons time.

Lateness is my pet peeve! Zero tolerance!

[going places]

IMHO if you are not 15 min early, you are late.

I am on time or early. If I am going to be late, I call who ever it is and tell them (90% of the time I am late is because of unexpected traffic incidents... .because my goal is to always be 15 min early).

I think being habitually late (2-15 min past set time) is rude. It shows you that they are on their own time and will be there when they get there, and I think that is a little selfish and rude.

I would not tolerate someone who was more than 30 min late, more than one time.

Sorry, unless you have an accident report? I am not waiting for you. AND I am not spending any more time with you.

[Pingo]

I wonder if it has something also to do with who is good with routines. On workdays I wake up at 5:45 to be out the door by 7:30. I'm never late. But on the mornings I wake up at 2 am or some ungodly hour because I have insomnia, I end up running out the door at 7:40, arriving at work barely on time... .so the more time I have, the more I get away from my usual routine.

I also find the stress of possibly being late not worth it for me. It triggers a lot of anxiety in me (doesn't take much these days). So I try to make sure I don't have to be stressed.

[HappyNihilist]

I can relate to that, HappyNihilist. It may be tied to general dissatisfaction.

I was known for being chronically late all my life, and simultaneously, battling with depression. Looking back the idealization phase, I actually got that completely sorted out, life seemed affirmed, and the reward was out there "waiting", I just had to travel a few hours to meet her. Later as things started to deteriorate, and the rewarding parts was no longer present, I was still punctual because of the fear of retaliation, as she was raging out of proportion for being late.

Was your time management more efficient in the idealization phase?

Same here with the chronic lateness and depression. My lateness is very rarely anything past 15 minutes, and I don't have issues with it in my career... .most of the people in my life tolerate me well enough, haha.

I wasn't more punctual during the idealization phase with my exBPDbf, though. But then, he actually encouraged a lot of my "flakier" traits -- part of him seemed to genuinely enjoy my controlled chaos, and part of it was to try to keep me in a less rational mindset.

[Turkish]

I'm an on time person. I suscribe to the military adage: "if you're early, you're on time; if you're on time, you're late." I like to scope things out, too. That's just me. In some cultures (Mediteranean, Hispanic), being late is on time, especially for parties.

I don't have anxiety about it though, but I sympathize with being triggered by people who are chronically very late. I don't know about narcissistic, but it's disrespectful unless there is an understanding beforehand.

[HappyNihilist]

We don't all find the same things disrespectful, so communication is very important. People who continue to disrespect you in a way they know is important to you - are not healthy, beneficial people to have in your life.

In some cultures (Mediteranean, Hispanic), being late is on time, especially for parties.

In my previous work assignment, I dealt with a lot of foreign cultures. The most interesting meetings and events were always ones where both Germans and Greeks were involved.

Germans consider on time to be late, and Greeks think it's disrespectful to be less than 15 minutes late to anything.

Every meeting started with 30 minutes of darkly muttered German, followed by a bunch of laughing Greeks rolling in, followed by more furiously darkly muttered German.