Fallout

[LifeIsBeautiful]

I went NC for 2 weeks after years of mental and physical abuse from uBPDw. Psych, Social Worker etc. had been telling be to break off and I finally did it after an episode which wasn't the worse but woken me. The inevitable fallout out happened  and in short, the police was called in. Unfortunately I got implicated even though I did not initiate and contact or aggravate the situation. I was expecting it to happen, like a time bomb. I'm posting to get any advice how to get through this stage and still continue s if nothing happened, specially when it was a public scene. There is the worry of the impending outcome of the investigation. I am prepared to answer for my actions, but there is still that thought in me not wishing the other person to go through further duress after what had been happening the past years. Am I out of my mind still thinking of the other person's well being, after being a doormat (or worse) all these time? I would also like to share with others, if they wanted, the journey from L1 to L3. Yes it was painful but necessary. Getting through the depression being with a person with BPD is definitely no walk in the park. But it can be done. Thanks for reading.

[Restored2]

Hi LifeIsBeautiful.  Sounds like a difficult but enlightening time for you.  I can appreciate what you are going through on the legal end.  Mine called the police claiming harassment against me.  I don't think you are out of your mind for thinking of the other persons well being.  It's actually called empathy, which BPD people seem to lack.  What does "L1 to L3" refer to?

[LifeIsBeautiful]

Hi Restored,

Good to hear from you so soon!

Some advice if I may, there's nothing to worry if you didn't harass her as she needs to prove it.

Hang in there, I'm trying to myself. I am the one being harassed and the P can't do anything about it, unless I'm physically harmed which by that time it will be too little too late.

Sorry I meant going from Staying to [L2] Undecided: Staying or Leaving to [L3] Leaving: Detaching from the Wounds of a failed BPD Relationship.

[Restored2]

Thanks so much, LifeIsBeautiful.  Your words or encouragement are greatly appreciated.  Apparently something as simple as Christmas gifts and Christmas cards with well wishes can be considered unwanted harassment and used as evidence against.  I think there is a different standard for men and women regarding how the police respond.  How are you being harassed?

[LifeIsBeautiful]

Hi Restored, you are welcomed 

This forum got me through some really dark times in the past... .thanks to the administrators.

I've read quite a number of posts, and everyone has their own experiences and advice. As what others had written, best to seek advice from a lawyer for legal matters. Seek counseling and therapy if you need to. I did both and it gave me a broader perspective of things. I seriously doubt greeting cards can be considered harassing, were you trying to get back together? How many did you send?

I don't know the details so I can only write on my own experience (sorry for repeating that but it's important). For my case, I suspected my stbx was consulting with her lawyer or friends and there was all sorts of threats and ridiculous demands made. DO NOT do anything without consulting with someone you trust, if you can't afford a lawyer. Recently was texts and calls at anytime of the day, and appearing at places where I am. Yes almost like stalking but from where I am in the world there's nothing preventing people from doing that.

[Restored2]

Hi LifeIsBeautiful. Thank you for sharing and for your advice.  The greeting cards were basically to let her know that I still care and that the door is remains open for her to return.  I sent her a post card and a pair of Christmas cards, consisting of one for her and the other for her 5 children.  Nothing was threatening from me.

[livednlearned]

Hi LifeisBeautiful,

Welcome to the Family Law board 

It's difficult when the end of the relationship gets tangled with legal matters. I'm sorry it went that way for you, and that you are getting support from a counselor, and this board.

You mention that there is an investigation. If you feel comfortable sharing what happened, do you want to say more about what happened? It sounds like you might not be in the US where the laws are different. No one here is a lawyer, and can't offer legal advice, but many of us have been through the legal system with our ex BPD sufferers and have learned some things along the way, mostly about how our own tendencies can improve or worsen the conflict.

I think it's admirable that you can still care about the well-being of your ex even after what you've been through. It sounds like you understand that being a doormat can present some challenges. It's good to look closely at what is going on with those feelings. If you feel guilty about protecting yourself, that can make the situation with the legal system much worse for you. If you feel angry, and want to seek vengeance (or even justice), that can also end badly -- it sounds like you do not feel angry.

The best approach is an assertive approach. It's possible that your ex will suffer some consequences for her actions. As long as you focus on taking care of yourself, you are not being vengeful. It takes many people here a while to recognize that taking care of ourselves is not an aggressive or vengeful thing, it's the key to a healthy and emotionally resilient life. Protecting your ex from consequences does not help her, nor does it help you.

Sometimes, because of projection and other BPD behaviors, she will accuse you of the very things she is doing. And yes, the legal system has a bias when it comes to gender. There is something known as "legal abuse" that really is abuse. My ex (male) engaged in this, and it was the most stressful thing I've been through, but also taught me a lot.

[ForeverDad]

There is the worry of the impending outcome of the investigation.

Good that you have already found some insight of what to do and what not to do.  LnL too added some fine points.

Separation can raise the conflict to a higher level.  Definitely getting the police involved raises the level of conflict also.  From the sounds of it (1) you tried Staying but without her doing her part to improve things it didn't work and (2) you have accepted the relationship is ending and perhaps even imploding.  Please protect yourself: physically, emotionally, financially and legally.

Without knowing the details, I would presume that if you compared your actions versus hers, over 99% of the bad actions were not yours.  So beware of accepting blame.  Even saying "I'm sorry" could be misconstrued and taken as Admission of Guilt.  Maybe I'm overcautious in writing that but the general consensus (highlighted in our Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder handbook by Eddy & Kreger) is to never make any statements or sign any paperwork which admits any level of Guilt, well, at least not without your experienced lawyer's full approval.

I am prepared to answer for my actions, but there is still that thought in me not wishing the other person to go through further duress after what had been happening the past years. Am I out of my mind still thinking of the other person's well being, after being a doormat (or worse) all these time?

Yes, we all have felt that way.  That's why we stayed so long in the relationship and didn't skip out immediately as others probably did.  I recall our son's GAL sadi, "No one will marry her" when I said I wished she would just get married again (to someone else).  Well, I had married and stayed with her when her behaviors got worse.  Meantime, since our divorce she's had at least two ended relationships that I'm aware of, perhaps there were more.  What does that say about me?  I stayed as long as I could, the others were gone far quicker.

Our otherwise good qualities made us susceptible to being confused, used and abused.  So give this new reality and insight time to sink in.  Recovery is a process, not an event.  Until then, be especially careful to maintain your new-found boundaries, such as keeping your distance and not opening yourself up to further manipulation and abuse.

[LifeIsBeautiful]

Hi Restored,

If I may say so, you are getting in FOG - fear, obligation, and guilt. The harassment accusation was not only unappreciated, she wants to punish you for it. I've been through it, it's amazing when i look back how bad I was affected.

She knows you well enough to "push your buttons". The fact that you have posted this shows that it did affect you in some way. Which was what she wanted, not sure if you see what I am getting at. Hand in there and DO NOT do anything without consulting someone whom you can trust or have always been able to give you good advice.   

Hi LifeIsBeautiful. Thank you for sharing and for your advice.  The greeting cards were basically to let her know that I still care and that the door is remains open for her to return.  I sent her a post card and a pair of Christmas cards, consisting of one for her and the other for her 5 children.  Nothing was threatening from me.

[LifeIsBeautiful]

Hi LivedandLearned, sorry I can't share what happened as the investigation is still ongoing.

I'm not in the US, thankfully no one was hurt but the trouble started when a member of the public decided to make a report based on what he/she saw. When someone gets hurt nobody gives a sh**, but when there is a public dispute somebody will make a report. Society never fails to keep disappointing me. It's a mesh pot of feelings that I have, empathy, disappointment, anger, disbelief - a deer caught in the headlights.

Where did they learn all these manipulation techniques, or am I too blinded to realize what was happening?

Thanks for all the advice.

[Restored2]

Hi LifeIsBeautiful. Thank you for speaking out about what you see that I am dealing with and for your insightful advice.  Your words of encouragement are greatly appreciated too.  I may not be seeing things clearly.  What could possibly motivate her to want to punish me by way of an harassment accusation?  I am not sure how I would have arrived in the FOG of fear, obligation and guilt.  Is this something that I would have put upon myself?

[LifeIsBeautiful]

You may not be experiencing FOG, but I certainly did and it can come into play especially during a breakup. There are good resources here about that topic, sorry as I may not explain it that well.

For my case an example would be trying to do something nice like getting her a a gift and taking her out for a nice meal. Instead of appreciation it turned out plain nasty; criticism for getting a "cheap" gift, taking her to a place she didn't like, raging etc. The problem comes when I started buying into it. Fear that the next thing I did may not be good enough, feeling obliged to meet her expectations, feeling guilty that I should have done "better".  The fact is that it's all bull, but it is appropriately termed FOG as it blinds the judgement and truth.

Truth is we cannot change how others feels, but we certainly can changes ours. If a person doesn't like what we gave them, they can stuff it and shut up, certainly not our fault.

Hi LifeIsBeautiful. Thank you for speaking out about what you see that I am dealing with and for your insightful advice.  Your words of encouragement are greatly appreciated too.  I may not be seeing things clearly.  What could possibly motivate her to want to punish me by way of an harassment accusation?  I am not sure how I would have arrived in the FOG of fear, obligation and guilt.  Is this something that I would have put upon myself?

[livednlearned]

There is an article on FOG here:

ARTICLE: What it means to be in the “FOG”

Fear, obligation and guilt (FOG) are the tools of emotional manipulators. "Emotional Blackmail" and FOG are terms coined by psychotherapist Susan Forward, Ph.D., and are about controlling relationships and the theory that fear, obligation or guilt are the transactional dynamics at play between the controller and the person being controlled. Understanding these dynamics are useful to anyone trying to extricate themselves from the controlling behavior by another person.

[Restored2]

livenlearned: Thank you for posting the article on FOG.  Much appreciated.

LifeIsBeautiful: Thanks for sharing.  I do believe that I have been experiencing FOG from my relationship with her too.  It's such an entangled sticky web that we can get caught in completely unknowingly by these BPD people.

[LifeIsBeautiful]

Sorry for the cliche, but it's never too late to get out of the fog.

Amusingly I experienced driving in the fog once, yes it's madness, and I almost drove into a ditch. But importantly is being aware about it and that you always have the choice to stop the car and get it... .but sometime we don't. And that's the danger.

livenlearned: Thank you for posting the article on FOG.  Much appreciated.

LifeIsBeautiful: Thanks for sharing.  I do believe that I have been experiencing FOG from my relationship with her too.  It's such an entangled sticky web that we can get caught in completely unknowingly by these BPD people.

[Restored2]

Hi LifeIsBeautiful.  There is a real danger with travelling in any fog, whether that be literal or otherwise.  This is where we are at risk to make serious mistakes that could negatively impact our lives and the lives of others long term.  Possibly some bright fog lights could come in handy here too.