The dreaded "happy birthday" message

[TenderSurrender]

Facebook.  The final frontier of NC.  I don't know why this person is still on my roster of friends, or why she's kept me on.  I sincerely doubt I'll ever hear from her again.  Something as trivial as whether to post a kind Facebook message suddenly becomes so complex.  I may bump into her at a couple of mutual friend birthday parties, so I'm wondering if it's really just about keeping the peace or about wishing for some better outcome.  There's that part of me that wants to honor my own process by writing a "happy birthday" scrawl on her wall, but there's a part of me that just doesn't think it's a good idea.  It's moot anyway.  This person doesn't need me anymore.  She's got her new life and new friends and would rather pal around or hook up with guys three decades younger.

I feel embarrassed in the sense that you all are talking about real romantic relationships, whereas I'm referencing someone I dated for, like, 10 minutes, but had a very close friendship with.  The former might have been possible if she hadn't literally gotten more dismissive and distant over time.  Obviously, I realize now that I was looking to find a deeper context to the person that was less chaotic before I could make that determination.  I never got there.

I just don't want to end up in some kind of social media-based game of chicken.

[TenderSurrender]

I apologize in advance if I'm not making much sense.  After all this time and even with much more understanding, I'm still trying to figure out what's happened here, .

[jhkbuzz]

Facebook.  The final frontier of NC.  I don't know why this person is still on my roster of friends, or why she's kept me on.  I sincerely doubt I'll ever hear from her again.  Something as trivial as whether to post a kind Facebook message suddenly becomes so complex.  I may bump into her at a couple of mutual friend birthday parties, so I'm wondering if it's really just about keeping the peace or about wishing for some better outcome.  There's that part of me that wants to honor my own process by writing a "happy birthday" scrawl on her wall, but there's a part of me that just doesn't think it's a good idea.  It's moot anyway.  This person doesn't need me anymore.  She's got her new life and new friends and would rather pal around or hook up with guys three decades younger.

I feel embarrassed in the sense that you all are talking about real romantic relationships, whereas I'm referencing someone I dated for, like, 10 minutes, but had a very close friendship with.  The former might have been possible if she hadn't literally gotten more dismissive and distant over time.  Obviously, I realize now that I was looking to find a deeper context to the person that was less chaotic before I could make that determination.  I never got there.

I just don't want to end up in some kind of social media-based game of chicken.

First of all, don't feel embarrassed!  You had an emotional connection with this woman, and now you're hurt.  We can all relate to that.

Were/are you in love with her?

This is what it looks like from the outside looking in: you developed some deep feelings for a woman who sent you conflicting signals. You are using a lot of emotional energy to make sense of it all, while she spent little-to-no energy addressing your feelings in any way, shape or form. This sounds like a toxic brew - for you. (And, by the way, I went back and read your original post - there are    all over the place).

My personal opinion?  You could conceivably spend the next several MONTHS ruminating over a person who is not even thinking about you. And you are under no obligation to remain friends with someone who discards you so casually.  Posting to FB should not be so complex.  Consider unfriending her; if she has that many friends on FB she probably won't even notice right away. If she does and somehow asks you about it, just tell her you decided to "trim down" the number of FB friends you have.  If you set your privacy settings correctly, she won't even be able to see who you're friends with.

Then you can joyfully continue posting to your social media circle.

Life can be simple again.  It's your decision to make.

[TenderSurrender]

First of all, don't feel embarrassed!  You had an emotional connection with this woman, and now you're hurt.  We can all relate to that.

Were/are you in love with her?

This is what it looks like from the outside looking in: you developed some deep feelings for a woman who sent you conflicting signals. You are using a lot of emotional energy to make sense of it all, while she spent little-to-no energy addressing your feelings in any way, shape or form. This sounds like a toxic brew - for you. (And, by the way, I went back and read your original post - there are     all over the place).

My personal opinion?  You could conceivably spend the next several MONTHS ruminating over a person who is not even thinking about you. And you are under no obligation to remain friends with someone who discards you so casually.  Posting to FB should not be so complex.  Consider unfriending her; if she has that many friends on FB she probably won't even notice right away. If she does and somehow asks you about it, just tell her you decided to "trim down" the number of FB friends you have.  If you set your privacy settings correctly, she won't even be able to see who you're friends with.

Then you can joyfully continue posting to your social media circle.

Life can be simple again.  It's your decision to make.

Those are good questions.  Thank you for asking and for reading all that.  I didn't quite know what that was about initially.  She was pushing 50 and really into casual sex, which we bantered around a lot about on on our Facebook back channel.  I chuckled knowing I was never really going to get into that at the time.  It was a little too strong.  But our real life hanging out and chatting on the phone was very cool and funny and deep.  Since most 50-year-olds I know are very clear that they do not want hook-ups, I had to decipher why the lone person I'd met was so amped up for it.  It didn't make sense that there were two different types of interactions going on here.

Basically, we had talked about dating a little bit, but somehow in my head it didn't feel right.  When she moved a couple of hours away presumably for one year, I realized that the reason it didn't happen was because there wasn't a new context between her flirting over sex and the idea of dating.  I said that maybe over that time, we'll keep growing and by the she comes back, we'll know.  We'll have hung out a lot more and if it's meant to happen, then... .In my mind, I'm thinking logistically.  I need to know how this would work.  Why am I making that investment?  A 37-year-old guy is definitely changing his life path to some degree by being with someone at nearly 50.  Not quite as much for her.  There was also a part of her life that I presume not many grown men would not want to take on unless they were her partner.  So I decided to go back and slowly jumpstart a deeper context.  I couldn't deny that I really liked her a lot and having her in my life felt great.  She wasn't a symbol, though, but an actual individual person.  It wasn't for my ego or anything.

To me, love is a grower.  Was I in love?  No, I've always been certain of that.  I had some deep feelings as in I cared about her, because that's what this rapport got me to do, but I wasn't in love with her.  Whatever it was at the time, I was just trying to be the best person I could be and build... .something.  I mean, I feel like that's what all relationships of any kind are about.  They're about building and growing.  Love is something that comes when you've built up a deep relationship that you understand is going down that path.  It takes time and a real effort on the parts of two people.  This dance went on for so long because I couldn't really go any deeper with someone who would ignore plans made or phone calls set up.  If she couldn't honor those basic courtesies, how could I even build an actual *anything*?

I guess I'm unable to think illogically about life and about people.  It's a curse, .  For example, she always jokes about a smartphone she's had for a few years that she says isn't getting all the texts people send.  It's a running joke about the phone for a lot of people, but my mind looks at that and interprets it as it's an easy out for not returning messages.  If she felt it was important to be able to return people's communications, she'd have bought a new phone, which she can afford, a long time ago.  I feel like I'm the only one in her orbit that would see something like that for what it is.

My apologies for the long reply.  I guess, in short, I had a great year with her, and then two and change that weren't great.  She told me I was incredibly important to her.  I always reiterated the same.  I wasn't trying to confuse her, I just realized that the initial context had to be untangled and realigned.  I just wanted to continue growing our rapport without worrying about what it was supposed to be at the time.   I don't want to sound like one of those hangdog men that is mad that someone didn't love them.  It's not that.  Maybe it's more the behavior than any idea of potential romantic feelings.  I just didn't want to be dropped as a person.  I just wanted to be a good part of her life and I wish she had understood that we had to just take things a bit more gradually before we knew for sure what this was all about, and that cutting bait isn't something that is done to another human being.  Lol, I wish, I wish, right?

[jhkbuzz]

First of all, don't feel embarrassed!  You had an emotional connection with this woman, and now you're hurt.  We can all relate to that.

Were/are you in love with her?

This is what it looks like from the outside looking in: you developed some deep feelings for a woman who sent you conflicting signals. You are using a lot of emotional energy to make sense of it all, while she spent little-to-no energy addressing your feelings in any way, shape or form. This sounds like a toxic brew - for you. (And, by the way, I went back and read your original post - there are     all over the place).

My personal opinion?  You could conceivably spend the next several MONTHS ruminating over a person who is not even thinking about you. And you are under no obligation to remain friends with someone who discards you so casually.  Posting to FB should not be so complex.  Consider unfriending her; if she has that many friends on FB she probably won't even notice right away. If she does and somehow asks you about it, just tell her you decided to "trim down" the number of FB friends you have.  If you set your privacy settings correctly, she won't even be able to see who you're friends with.

Then you can joyfully continue posting to your social media circle.

Life can be simple again.  It's your decision to make.

Those are good questions.  Thank you for asking and for reading all that.  I didn't quite know what that was about initially.  She was pushing 50 and really into casual sex, which we bantered around a lot about on on our Facebook back channel.  I chuckled knowing I was never really going to get into that at the time.  It was a little too strong.  But our real life hanging out and chatting on the phone was very cool and funny and deep.  Since most 50-year-olds I know are very clear that they do not want hook-ups, I had to decipher why the lone person I'd met was so amped up for it.

Just wondering: why did you put so much effort into developing a r/s with someone who made it clear that all they wanted was casual sex? Did you not believe her? Why did you have to decipher her reasons? Any why was the she the "lone" person you met?

In some ways, it feels like you were both clear about what you wanted - and those "wants"  were at the opposite ends of the spectrum. Then, as you started interacting with her, perhaps you wanted more, hoped for more?  Perhaps that's why she backed away - because she was clear with you at the beginning about what she wanted and recognized you were on different pages?

"I mean, I feel like that's what all relationships of any kind are about.  They're about building and growing.  Love is something that comes when you've built up a deep relationship that you understand is going down that path.  It takes time and a real effort on the parts of two people. This dance went on for so long because I couldn't really go any deeper with someone who would ignore plans made or phone calls set up.  If she couldn't honor those basic courtesies, how could I even build an actual *anything*?"

Exactly.  You wanted different things

[TenderSurrender]

Oh, jhkbuzz... .Sorry, just to clarify, because I'm intrigued by what you were saying about red flags.  :)o you mean clear things I should have taken the hint from or very strange things from the other side that would indicate some sort of problem?

Anyway, thank you, thank you very much again for being a voice here.  It's very much appreciated.  If you need to talk about anything yourself, please don't hesitate to PM.  

Edit:  Ah, okay, your reply popped up.  I see what you mean now.  It's sad, but that's life, I guess.

To answer your subsequent question, she was always lamenting being single, wanting a boyfriend.  I guess I never quite figured out what she was really looking for from men.  She thought we were dating for a hot minute, which I didn't even realize, but she referred to wanting casual sex, too, so it was all over the map.  The designation of what this was is fuzzy.

I think you're right.  It's a waste of energy for me.  I just don't know what this person wants/wanted, and maybe she's got to sort that out for herself.  I hope she does and finds what she's looking for.

[jhkbuzz]

Hi all.  How goes it?  New to the board here.  What a great board this is.  I've been reading people's posts for a while.

I thought I'd write in about a friend in my life of about four years.  Not quite a significant other, but there was the possibility.  She's almost thirteen years older than me, so in her early 50s now.  We had a great shared rapport but it's gone bad in a way I'm still making sense of.  In the beginning, she was really kind of a friend that seemed interested in casual sex , which kind of threw me off.  It was an intense flirtation, but I kind of decided to humorously sidestep that due some lingering things she had going on in her life that seemed a bit chaotic. We had gotten pretty close though as friends (you've probably heard this a lot).  There was a definite attraction between us, which led me to wonder about whether dating was a good idea to pursue or not (oddly enough, much later she actually told me our first few hangouts *were* dates which I had no idea, and no one would have ever thought that either).   But the question marks lingered, and somehow in us talking about dating, I felt the context was still the same, couched in her serious pursuance of sex.  I knew it would require me to sort of circle back and work off of a deeper course of action.  This meant building on an idea of how this would even work with the age thing, and also me All combined, despite being puzzled, I took my sense of logic, and I took the cues of her age to determine that the logic didn't click, but I still seemed to work off the better parts as my guide to her anyway (while obviously glossing over certain things, too).

[jhkbuzz]

Oh, jhkbuzz... .Sorry, just to clarify, because I'm intrigued by what you were saying about red flags.  :)o you mean clear things I should have taken the hint from or very strange things from the other side that would indicate some sort of problem?

Anyway, thank you, thank you very much again for being a voice here.  It's very much appreciated.  If you need to talk about anything yourself, please don't hesitate to PM.  

Edit:  Ah, okay, your reply popped up.  I see what you mean now.  It's sad, but that's life, I guess.

To answer your subsequent question, she was always lamenting being single, wanting a boyfriend.  I guess I never quite figured out what she was really looking for from men.  She thought we were dating for a hot minute, which I didn't even realize, but she referred to wanting casual sex, too, so it was all over the map.  The designation of what this was is fuzzy.

I think you're right.  It's a waste of energy for me.  I just don't know what this person wants/wanted, and maybe she's got to sort that out for herself.  I hope she does and finds what she's looking for.

I hope YOU do and find what you're looking for - an emotionally available woman who will return your affection and attention.

[TenderSurrender]

Hi all.  How goes it?  New to the board here.  What a great board this is.  I've been reading people's posts for a while.

I thought I'd write in about a friend in my life of about four years.  Not quite a significant other, but there was the possibility.  She's almost thirteen years older than me, so in her early 50s now.  We had a great shared rapport but it's gone bad in a way I'm still making sense of.  In the beginning, she was really kind of a friend that seemed interested in casual sex , which kind of threw me off.  It was an intense flirtation, but I kind of decided to humorously sidestep that due some lingering things she had going on in her life that seemed a bit chaotic. We had gotten pretty close though as friends (you've probably heard this a lot).  There was a definite attraction between us, which led me to wonder about whether dating was a good idea to pursue or not (oddly enough, much later she actually told me our first few hangouts *were* dates which I had no idea, and no one would have ever thought that either).   But the question marks lingered, and somehow in us talking about dating, I felt the context was still the same, couched in her serious pursuance of sex.  I knew it would require me to sort of circle back and work off of a deeper course of action.  This meant building on an idea of how this would even work with the age thing, and also me All combined, despite being puzzled, I took my sense of logic, and I took the cues of her age to determine that the logic didn't click, but I still seemed to work off the better parts as my guide to her anyway (while obviously glossing over certain things, too).

Yes, yes.  Absolutely.  Thank you for that, and for wishing me well in the post afterwards.  What a strange experience this has been.  I'm just exhausted, .

I certainly hope you can find, or have found, that kind of peace and loving connection as well.

[jhkbuzz]

Hi all.  How goes it?  New to the board here.  What a great board this is.  I've been reading people's posts for a while.

I thought I'd write in about a friend in my life of about four years.  Not quite a significant other, but there was the possibility.  She's almost thirteen years older than me, so in her early 50s now.  We had a great shared rapport but it's gone bad in a way I'm still making sense of.  In the beginning, she was really kind of a friend that seemed interested in casual sex , which kind of threw me off.  It was an intense flirtation, but I kind of decided to humorously sidestep that due some lingering things she had going on in her life that seemed a bit chaotic. We had gotten pretty close though as friends (you've probably heard this a lot).  There was a definite attraction between us, which led me to wonder about whether dating was a good idea to pursue or not (oddly enough, much later she actually told me our first few hangouts *were* dates which I had no idea, and no one would have ever thought that either).   But the question marks lingered, and somehow in us talking about dating, I felt the context was still the same, couched in her serious pursuance of sex.  I knew it would require me to sort of circle back and work off of a deeper course of action.  This meant building on an idea of how this would even work with the age thing, and also me All combined, despite being puzzled, I took my sense of logic, and I took the cues of her age to determine that the logic didn't click, but I still seemed to work off the better parts as my guide to her anyway (while obviously glossing over certain things, too).

Yes, yes.  Absolutely.  Thank you for that, and for wishing me well in the post afterwards.  What a strange experience this has been.  I'm just exhausted, .

I certainly hope you can find, or have found, that kind of peace and loving connection as well.

I'm about 7 months out of an 8 year r/s... .sometimes there are bumps in the road but overall I'm feeling pretty good these days.  I've decided to take a year off dating to put myself back together and make sure I'm emotionally ready to 'dive back in.'

One of the hardest things I had to do was decide to unfriend my ex after she moved out... .it felt like cutting the final cord.  But I have to tell you, it was one of the most freeing things I could have done.

[TenderSurrender]

I'm about 7 months out of an 8 year r/s... .sometimes there are bumps in the road but overall I'm feeling pretty good these days.  I've decided to take a year off dating to put myself back together and make sure I'm emotionally ready to 'dive back in.'

One of the hardest things I had to do was decide to unfriend my ex after she moved out... .it felt like cutting the final cord.  But I have to tell you, it was one of the most freeing things I could have done.

That's great that you were able to do that.  I'm so sorry you had to go through that, but I admire your tenacity and emotional strength.  It's tough to realize something is really over and are tasked with a new beginning.  I'm sure it wasn't easy to do the unfriending, even if it's just Facebook.  I never know whether or not doing that without warning is the right thing to do.  I know how I've felt when someone just randomly disappeared from my roster, and it always affected me.  But do I owe someone an explanation?  Usually, I feel like yes.  Can I even give one that makes sense without sounding like a, and I hate to use this word, crybaby?  Expressing that you're hurt doesn't do much, and people don't always take a calm, polite explanation of the split well either.  Also, I have a couple of friends in common that I met through her, and I don't know if I'd get anyone to take this in an even-keeled way, or to understand what I had experienced.  Well, okay, the friends I already had that I met her through know what's going on.  One of 'em even was the flirting recipient before I ended up next in line and has definitely said he's picked up on the same things that I saw and keeps his distance.  At least that's helped me realize that I wasn't losing my mind.  I want to avoid any he-said-she-said accounts, which are so petty, or gaslighting.

I know I'm in the mix with my story, too, although I know I've done the best I could do.  But I think that, ultimately, she probably should never have come into my life like that.  She probably had no idea that I went much deeper than she realized and maybe got stuck when she realized I wasn't gonna be a boy-toy, but still had to deal with this rapport.  It's like opening a tab and later realizing you've got a bill left to take care of.  Relationships are living things that I don't have a choice but to nurture.  Fascinating stuff I know, heh.

I think you sound like a pretty healthy person, although I'm sure you have your moments where it all gets to you.  We're only human.  Taking some time off from the craziness of dating sounds like it'll be very healthy.  You're probably just trying to be the best person you can be for someone else.  And I'm sure you will be.  

[jhkbuzz]

I'm about 7 months out of an 8 year r/s... .sometimes there are bumps in the road but overall I'm feeling pretty good these days.  I've decided to take a year off dating to put myself back together and make sure I'm emotionally ready to 'dive back in.'

One of the hardest things I had to do was decide to unfriend my ex after she moved out... .it felt like cutting the final cord.  But I have to tell you, it was one of the most freeing things I could have done.

That's great that you were able to do that.  I'm so sorry you had to go through that, but I admire your tenacity and emotional strength.  It's tough to realize something is really over and are tasked with a new beginning.  I'm sure it wasn't easy to do the unfriending, even if it's just Facebook.  I never know whether or not doing that without warning is the right thing to do.  I know how I've felt when someone just randomly disappeared from my roster, and it always affected me.  But do I owe someone an explanation?  Usually, I feel like yes.  Can I even give one that makes sense without sounding like a, and I hate to use this word, crybaby?  Expressing that you're hurt doesn't do much, and people don't always take a calm, polite explanation of the split well either.  Also, I have a couple of friends in common that I met through her, and I don't know if I'd get anyone to take this in an even-keeled way, or to understand what I had experienced.  Well, okay, the friends I already had that I met her through know what's going on.  One of 'em even was the flirting recipient before I ended up next in line and has definitely said he's picked up on the same things that I saw and keeps his distance.  At least that's helped me realize that I wasn't losing my mind.  I want to avoid any he-said-she-said accounts, which are so petty, or gaslighting.

I know I'm in the mix with my story, too, although I know I've done the best I could do.  But I think that, ultimately, she probably should never have come into my life like that.  She probably had no idea that I went much deeper than she realized and maybe got stuck when she realized I wasn't gonna be a boy-toy, but still had to deal with this rapport.  It's like opening a tab and later realizing you've got a bill left to take care of.  Relationships are living things that I don't have a choice but to nurture.  Fascinating stuff I know, heh.

I think you sound like a pretty healthy person, although I'm sure you have your moments where it all gets to you.  We're only human.  Taking some time off from the craziness of dating sounds like it'll be very healthy.  You're probably just trying to be the best person you can be for someone else.  And I'm sure you will be.  

I don't want to sugar coat anything - the entire experience was very, very hard and it almost - ALMOST - broke me.  I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy - I've cried more tears than I thought humanly possible.

But I - you - I think everyone on these boards has a reserve of strength - of self preservation - that allows us to rise up when we are ready and say ENOUGH. N*O*  M*O*R*E.

In your first paragraph I see your concern about everyone else's feelings if you unfriend this woman on FB - but concern for your own feelings and needs are practically non-existent. Perhaps that's the root of the problem.

I would suggest that you be a little selfish and approach the decision by determining what is emotionally best for YOU. Decide what you need to do so that you can begin healing and moving on with your life - and then DO IT without regret!

[TenderSurrender]

I don't want to sugar coat anything - the entire experience was very, very hard and it almost - ALMOST - broke me.  I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy - I've cried more tears than I thought humanly possible.

But I - you - I think everyone on these boards has a reserve of strength - of self preservation - that allows us to rise up when we are ready and say ENOUGH. N*O*  M*O*R*E.

In your first paragraph I see your concern about everyone else's feelings if you unfriend this woman on FB - but concern for your own feelings and needs are practically non-existent. Perhaps that's the root of the problem.

I would suggest that you be a little selfish and approach the decision by determining what is emotionally best for YOU. Decide what you need to do so that you can begin healing and moving on with your life - and then DO IT without regret!

I appreciate your spinning this around in your head for me.  It's great when I can get an informed perspective on a situation such as this.  It's probably easier for you to assist me than to get out of your own head with your stuff, or at least I know it is for me.  I can give someone else advice all day long and my head is much clearer on what has to be done with regards to their scenario.  You've gone through your own process and continue to do so.  It's powerful for you but also when you're speaking to someone else's situation.

I guess what I'm feeling is like what a lot of people say around here.  It's hard to give up the ghost so to speak.  There's clearly no activity anymore, so I know I should, I just don't know why it's so hard to let go.  There's still that sliver of me that wonders whether I'm responsible for the death of this friendship or whatever you want to call it.  I don't really believe that at heart, but it's hard for me not to feel that way.  It's important to me feel like my distress was legitimate, that I wasn't slowly designing an image of someone that was inaccurate simply because I was upset and wanted it to be so.  But yes, I do tend to ignore my own needs in situations like these.  It's not a good thing.

This may sound silly, but maybe you've heard it before.  On some level, I'm sure it's also hard for me to lay this to rest, because when I actually do, I know I'll feel like I got harmed by somebody who pushed me out and that was that.  Like somebody made a mess and now I'm cleaning it up.  She's probably not gonna feel bad about whatever sadness and stress I acquired over it, but I've gleaned from the board that that's something many people have to come to terms with.

But I'm rambling.  The sober thought is this: It's as you say.  I know objectively what needs to be done.  It's just a matter of whether I'll rip off the band-aid quickly or write a goodbye note.  Good or bad, no matter what this has all been, I know I'm gonna be incredibly sad for awhile.

I'm so sorry for all you've been through.  I agree with you, I wouldn't wish these feelings on anyone.  A good person doesn't take these experiences lightly.  They remember them and use them constructively in their dealings with others.  Like you're doing with me.  I always try to offer what I can do others, too, because of what I've gotten in the way of good will, and I'll continue to do that because it's better to not be hardened.