Do I paint him black?

[flowerpath]

I remember the exact moment that I realized that there is something seriously wrong in his brain, that he wasn’t being a jerk just because he could be, and that our life together would never be normal.  In the span of less than 60 seconds of being screamed at and cursed at, something just happened in my heart where the connection was already thin, and the door was closed.  When I found out that all these years this behavior has been characteristic of BPD and that people being “cured” of it is something very rare, I thought that I couldn’t live another 30 years like this and needed to get out as fast as I could. 

 

The lessons have helped in our home.  It has been worth all of the effort.  The thing is, even after understanding why our relationship has been the way it has been, feeling like I’m not resentful anymore, feeling like I’ve forgiven him, and knowing what it means to separate the person from the disorder, I’m still emotionally disconnected from him.  I can read the lessons and follow directions and do all of this stuff.  I can have a good attitude, be thankful for all that is good, do what I need to do in order to protect myself, and take care of myself.  I can probably do all of this for the rest of my life, but my heart is not in this relationship.  It’s hard to be attracted to someone I'm no longer attracted to.  I feel bad saying that.   

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[123Phoebe]

The lessons have helped in our home.  It has been worth all of the effort.  The thing is, even after understanding why our relationship has been the way it has been, feeling like I’m not resentful anymore, feeling like I’ve forgiven him, and knowing what it means to separate the person from the disorder, I’m still emotionally disconnected from him.  I can read the lessons and follow directions and do all of this stuff.  I can have a good attitude, be thankful for all that is good, do what I need to do in order to protect myself, and take care of myself.  I can probably do all of this for the rest of my life, but my heart is not in this relationship.  It’s hard to be attracted to someone I'm no longer attracted to.  I feel bad saying that.   

Aw flowerpath, not feeling attracted any longer is a pretty big deal and a very honest thing to admit.  I was married for 7 years, dated exh for 3yrs before that and knew I wasn't attracted to him (and really wanted out!) 2yrs into the marriage.  So, it took 5yrs (1/2 the time) to extricate myself.  Ugh, with a lot of unnecessary hurt feelings, FOG and drama added to the mix.  That doesn't take into account the healing time afterwards

A lot of marriages don't make it; I don't know what the actual percentage is now, has it reached more than 50%? 

I can kinda see why and how people stay in unsatisfying relationships, if "being in a relationship" holds a high value to the individual(s), while the alternative might be a lifetime of supposed "a-loneliness".  Personally, I'd rather be alone than feel lonely in a relationship.

The "attraction" thing is an interesting one... .  It goes way beyond mere physical attraction, as we age and lose our luster so to speak.  There has to be something else there and that something has to transcend dysfunctional ways of coping, or even functional ways of coping. i.e., learning the Tools and so on... .

I wonder if it's the natural growth of both people, coming together in the things that really matter, a meeting of the values (rather than minds).  A true acceptance of ourselves and each other while looking forward to experiencing life together.  Desire toward the future.  Trusting that we will be there for each other for the really important stuff, even when things aren't perfectly rosy.  A sense of security.  I feel that with my partner now.  Even if it all comes crashing down.  For we never truly know what lies ahead... .  Tomorrow never knows... .  I could go on and on... .

I didn't have that with exh.  I knew that "tomorrow" held more yuck   Our values were entirely different.  I believe we did try as well as we could or knew how to, but even in our "healthiest form", our values would be miles apart.  It would never work, which doesn't make either one of us bad people, just different.

Anyway, do you have an idea of where you'd like to go from here?

[Notwendy]

Painting someone black would be thinking they had no redeeming qualities. I think being wary and detatched is a natural result of being raged at, and a lack of trust that your motives will not be misinterpreted. I had a similar experience of feeling disconnected at the last rage. Two days later it was as if nothing ever happened and if I brought it up I was sneered at for not letting it go.

But we don't automatically press the rewind/erase buttons emotionally like they do- or they wish things would be. This is one of the most aggravating aspects of this condition. People can make mistakes, and then, the sincere apology is what is healing and connecting. However, the pattern of rage/pretend it never happened over time is disconnecting.

There is much that I appreciate and admire about my H, and I know he tries to do his best. Now that I understand where the rages come from, that I am not the one to be blamed for them, I can work on forgiving him for something that he had no awareness of. However, it does feel like "innocence lost" in the sense that I can't be the kind of loving, trusting, open wife that I was when we were first married. I can love him in a different way, and I can honor my marriage, but I don't think I can trust someone in that way.

I think "painting black" is a protective mechanism, probably an emotionally immature one. When I was younger, I painted my mother wBPD black so as not to be hurt and disappointed by her inconsistency. If I could see her as terrible, then when she was nice, I would not get my hopes up and think all was OK.  It is only recently, through 12 step groups and working on myself, that I can allow myself to enjoy her company some of the time. She has good qualities but I couldn't allow myself to see those because if I did, then I thought she'd be able to hurt me. Once my boundaries were strong enough to know that she really can't hurt me- even if she rages- I was able to not paint her black.

Knowing this, we can see that pwPD's probably do this to protect themselves from feeling hurt. If their boundaries are that poor, then they have to do this. They probably learned to do this in childhood too.

I think I have also done this with my H- if I don't allow myself to feel positive, then I won't be disapointed. However, during that last rage, I was so detatched that I could not take it personally. I hate the rages, but I know now that I can remove myself and not react like I used to. Perhaps this will make a positive change in how I relate to him.

[Cat Familiar]

The lessons have helped in our home.  It has been worth all of the effort.  The thing is, even after understanding why our relationship has been the way it has been, feeling like I’m not resentful anymore, feeling like I’ve forgiven him, and knowing what it means to separate the person from the disorder, I’m still emotionally disconnected from him.  I can read the lessons and follow directions and do all of this stuff.  I can have a good attitude, be thankful for all that is good, do what I need to do in order to protect myself, and take care of myself.  I can probably do all of this for the rest of my life, but my heart is not in this relationship.  It’s hard to be attracted to someone I'm no longer attracted to.  I feel bad saying that.   

I totally get not being attracted to one's spouse. Previously I was head over heels attracted to my husband. I couldn't believe my good fortune that I was actually with him.

We were struggling financially with no hope in sight, then he got an unexpected inheritance from his family that has totally changed his financial situation. (Note that I say "his" rather than "ours" He is now a wealthy man, while my lifestyle is still middle-class (but with some security).

This has changed him a lot. I hesitate to say that it has turned him into a BPDa$$hole, but at times that description fits.

So, I see you on the "not attracted" and I raise you: "I'm staying for the money and security"--Oh, and I feel really bad saying that. Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought I'd be capable of that--but I am.

[Cat Familiar]

Painting someone black would be thinking they had no redeeming qualities. I think being wary and detatched is a natural result of being raged at, and a lack of trust that your motives will not be misinterpreted. I had a similar experience of feeling disconnected at the last rage. Two days later it was as if nothing ever happened and if I brought it up I was sneered at for not letting it go.

But we don't automatically press the rewind/erase buttons emotionally like they do- or they wish things would be. This is one of the most aggravating aspects of this condition. People can make mistakes, and then, the sincere apology is what is healing and connecting. However, the pattern of rage/pretend it never happened over time is disconnecting.

There is much that I appreciate and admire about my H, and I know he tries to do his best. Now that I understand where the rages come from, that I am not the one to be blamed for them, I can work on forgiving him for something that he had no awareness of. However, it does feel like "innocence lost" in the sense that I can't be the kind of loving, trusting, open wife that I was when we were first married. I can love him in a different way, and I can honor my marriage, but I don't think I can trust someone in that way.

I understand the empty feeling. It's sort of like being onstage in a play, but the other person isn't aware they're in the play too.

Do you ever get apologies? My husband is always saying "sorry" but it's more of a defensive and angry thing rather than a real apology. Very rarely do I get a sincere apology.

And then to be accused of "hanging on to things" is truly galling, when they can't admit fault in the first place. It really does lead to a disconnect on the nons part.

[Cat Familiar]

I guess in my mind, I've painted my husband dark grey. He has a lot of good qualities, but if I don't see them for a long time, it gets harder to remember that they still manifest now and then.

Sometimes in the midst of the blackest moods, he will smile his 1000 watt smile and it feels like the man I love has surfaced for a breath. But as soon as that brief smile appears, he has once again descended to the depths of self-pity and disgruntlement.

How the heck do they think we ought to be attracted to the personalities they bring to the table?

And was I merely in love with the part of him that was painting me white?

[Notwendy]

I think I fell in love with the part of him that he lets others see, the part of him that he believes represents him. I also fell in love with those parts of him that are truly good and admirable. I realize people are humans and so, I would also be able to love him even with flaws, if I ever got to know what they were. However, he hates that side of him, the imperfect, vulnerable side, and so makes sure I don't see it, until something stresses him or triggers him and it is let out in a rage- and then I am blamed for that rage. Sure he has flaws, I do too, however the flaws are projected on me. I can own my flaws but I was also being blamed for his too.

No two people are going to move in together without occasionally getting on each others nerves, hurting feelings or doing something to irritate the other. However, I think these can be worked out. I also think somethings are not worth getting into. If it irritates me that someone doesn't put the cap on the toothpaste, just buy them their own tube. Yet trying to work out the typical issues resulted in impossible circular talk, raging, and eventually me just tiptoeing around him.

I also think he hates himself for losing it and letting that side of him out. Does he ever apologize? Not really, because that would mean really seeing that part of him that he has rejected so much he has to deny its existence. Yet we all have a part of ourselves we don't like too much- the part that makes mistakes, the part that doesn't live up to our ideals, and making peace with our human flaws is really part of being a healthy adult. I know where this started, by living with a critical and invalidating father who got all over his case for anything.

My false side is maintaining the peace, pretending that we really have done that rewind/erase thing, that just drives me crazy. For years he would do that, saying "every day is a new day, I'm going to forget the past and you should too" as if he could control my memory. Therefore I can bring up nothing in the past that was negative, like a rage event, for according to him, it did not exist.

We are stable on the surface. I appreciate that my H is the breadwinner, but he is also the recepient of my years of unpaid cooking, cleaning, taking care of the kids, and raising a family that he is proud of. I do see this as a gray. I know there is a lot of good. The sadness comes from having to be partly disconnected emotionally.

[Stalwart]

Wow so many really substantial and affirming and easily-related to responses here already it makes me wonder if my input is warranted flowerpath.

We share a past history in common living in a BPD relationship for many years without the acknowledgement of what we were struggling through and fallen more and more into a desperate dysfunctional situation until the day the light came on and I realized the situation. Knowing for both people is everything to a better path forward. It might however be a longer and more challenging path than some can manage or want to manage. It depends entirely on the personal reasons someone would choose to stay in the relationship and how dedicated they are to making the changes in themselves to want to better the harmony and bring the relationship back on line to one that can be close and meaningful. Having said that there may always be some degrees of management necessities, it's not curable but huge strides can be made in returning to harmony and yes happiness together. I have lived that experience.

I can so feel for the disconnect and being difficult to encompass the idea that it can ever be rekindled into anything that resembles the dreams and hopes you began with. I've been very deeply involved in that exact place as well back a few years. Stay, go - is there possibilities or hope? Well there is hope if hope is what you're willing and able to strive towards and I'll spend a minute relating my personal path and experience with that.

First understand I can absolutely relate to your place at the moment I'm not going to go into the details because this is about you and your decisions and needs. Trust that two people, especially myself could not have been at a lower or more desperate or hurtful place in a relationship after ten years of spiraling downward. My wife totally dysregulated after doing some very desperate and unacceptable things and actually went to a point of being psychotic allowing me to see the full and absolute person standing in from of me. A mixed blessing but hey, it's a point in place that forces personal decision and determines your choices and path forward. It sounds like your situation might not be that immediately desperate but no less important or in need of answers than mine was.

Sweetheart it come down to totally being about absolute choices and if your choice is to stay to do that in the best way to affect you positively emotionally going forward. Do I know the hurt, the long nights of pain, doubt, self-doubt, hurt, embarrassment, anger and sheer tears? I do. I had to make a decision and that decision was to stay. In saying that I had to first of all commit to learning not only the tools but also absolutely learn to understand my spouses intricate thinking's and working's - not assume I knew them, guess or rationalize conclusions. This took a long time to gain her trust to open up about all her past and present feelings and ghosts without allowing a situation that would escalate into triggering emotionally desperate responses. It's a learned and managed art.

I found first I had to learn absolutely how she thought and most importantly why she thought that way. In that way I could build the empathy required to 'feel' again for her situation and begin to feel for her. IN conjunction with that I had to learn to accept her reality for exactly what it was, not judge, rationalize or vary that but just absolute accept her take as her reality and know that was totally acceptable for her to have that reality. We all know that's extremely difficult because sometimes we can't accept that reality, reasoning or condone some thoughts. It takes time to overcome our natural tendencies to judge and listen really well especially when determining if what we are hearing is relayed to us with the real emotional intensity that tells us it's seriousness. Again it's a learning process, nothing easy or immediate about accomplishing that and it takes a lot of learning how to do that and particularly to accept that reality completely.

Now you have the basic and structure to work with in interactions. Now you have the place to work with by interacting in appropriate ways to make your spouse feel accepted, understood, listened to and supported. It's all about your actions and interactions and learning to manage them to better your spouses emotional state and assist in allowing them to work their way through problems with you as part of that picture and the rock they can depend, trust, eventually come to and confide in.

Anyway that's all about him what about you? I had to come to a point in life when I made the decision to stay to say to myself that the past is in the past and from this day forward the blank book is open to write a new chapter and life on. That's also a time process to really be able to put that past experiences, inter relationship problems, hurt and pain and disappointments behind you absolutely. Again, flowerpath that's difficult to do but not impossible to do. I believe without that fortitude and ability to force myself to that mindset I would never have been able to ever open up to new possibilities and hopes, dreams and wants - all the things that are contingent on that want of someone else in your life as a partner.

So in conclusion for now please don't take anything I've said here lightly, I know darn well how difficult it is to accomplish the things I have and it isn't possible in all cases. It does take huge want and a lot of determination and learning though but it is possible to turn a nightmare into a whole different relationship.

Just food for thought and a different take on it for you.  

[Notwendy]

Stalwart, your posts are always full of wisdom and your perspective is a valuable addition. I hope you post a lot. Your message of positivity and perserverance is a light in the face of what is a very difficult situation. Your success at accepting your wife for who she is and making your situation is truly admirable.

I am especially grateful for it, since the example I had in my life was one of hopelessness and impossibility. My father lacked the resources and tools about this disorder. I would like to think he would have used them if he had them, however, his denial was also so strong I don't know. I do recall in his younger years that he was very aware of my mother's issues. It would be hard to deny her behavior once we kids were old enough to see that this isn't normal. However, I think, that once we left home, this being kept a huge secret for them, he lost what was his reality check. We kids were always in trouble for saying the emperor had no clothes, no matter how much they tried to keep us quiet. It was easy for the two of them to team up in their denial once we left home. So all I saw was that my BPD mom was just beyond reach.

However, my own co-dependency treatment and understanding has led to a better relationship between us, although she isn't different. I only hope that my awareness will have a greater impact on my (relative to mom) much less symptomatic marriage. 

[Cat Familiar]

The lessons have helped in our home.  It has been worth all of the effort.  The thing is, even after understanding why our relationship has been the way it has been, feeling like I’m not resentful anymore, feeling like I’ve forgiven him, and knowing what it means to separate the person from the disorder, I’m still emotionally disconnected from him.  I can read the lessons and follow directions and do all of this stuff.  I can have a good attitude, be thankful for all that is good, do what I need to do in order to protect myself, and take care of myself.  I can probably do all of this for the rest of my life, but my heart is not in this relationship.  It’s hard to be attracted to someone I'm no longer attracted to.  I feel bad saying that.   

A friend with whom I've shared some of my relationship issues has one standard reply that comes in a variety of formats: "Seduce him." She cracks me up with all the scenarios she paints and I tell her she should write a sex book for those of us who are unimaginative. I think much of her interest stems from the fact that she's been single for a number of years.

I think about my therapist agreeing with the "act as if" theory at times when I mentioned that I can pull myself out of depression and self pity by putting a smile on my face, getting active and thinking of what I appreciate. I wish my husband could do that, but... .

We went away for a couple of days on a nice retreat and made love for the first time in months. It was great. However, when we came home, he immediately shifted into his glum self-pitying self--the one I have no feelings of attraction to whatsoever.

So, do I fake it and see if I can get a glimmer of that fantastic guy I fell in love with? Or do I just keep on living in my own world and trying not to set him off?

Part of the issue for me is that I have no attraction to the self he presents in private. This is such a contrast to the person I thought he was and who he seemed to be for a number of years. I was wildly attracted to that guy until his alcohol abuse became my rival and he chose it over me.

[Notwendy]

To my H, sex is validating, and so he would like it. However, when he painted me "black" he'd reject me if I did that, and showed no affection towards me. He told me he didn't want to have to do that, so I stopped expecting it. That didn't stop him from coming home from work and expecting me to be available for him to just do it when he wanted to. The kids were little, so for me it was a choice to do it and sleep, or say no which would end up with him raging at me, and then I would be so shook up I couldn't sleep.

There was an eventual sort of ammends for this at some point, with this magical expectation that I'd be affectionate and desire him, but how do you bring back feelings that were stomped on for so long? How can sex be fully pleasurable when for years you did it under the threat of a rage?

[yeeter]

I remember the exact moment that I realized that there is something seriously wrong in his brain, that he wasn’t being a jerk just because he could be, and that our life together would never be normal.  In the span of less than 60 seconds of being screamed at and cursed at, something just happened in my heart where the connection was already thin, and the door was closed.  When I found out that all these years this behavior has been characteristic of BPD and that people being “cured” of it is something very rare, I thought that I couldn’t live another 30 years like this and needed to get out as fast as I could. 

 

The lessons have helped in our home.  It has been worth all of the effort.  The thing is, even after understanding why our relationship has been the way it has been, feeling like I’m not resentful anymore, feeling like I’ve forgiven him, and knowing what it means to separate the person from the disorder, I’m still emotionally disconnected from him.  I can read the lessons and follow directions and do all of this stuff.  I can have a good attitude, be thankful for all that is good, do what I need to do in order to protect myself, and take care of myself.  I can probably do all of this for the rest of my life, but my heart is not in this relationship.  It’s hard to be attracted to someone I'm no longer attracted to.  I feel bad saying that.   

A huge milestone.  It sounds like you have done the work and gained clarity of your own thought process and self awareness.  I do completely get where you are at, and it echos my own 'success' story.  Dont feel bad about recognizing your own feelings.  It might not be how you 'wished' you felt about it, but reality is just reality. And by recognizing it, you will be able to consciously make better decisions going forward.

My personal choice was to stay.  A number of factors went into that.  I decided that the ideal model of what a relationship is was only one aspect of my life, and I chose to put this at a lower priority than other aspects (after coming to grips with the concept that no, I could not have it 'all'.  And over time, I am hoping that the relationship continues to improve and my feelings gradually become more positive towards it.

Good luck.  Great work!

 

[Cat Familiar]

My personal choice was to stay.  A number of factors went into that.  I decided that the ideal model of what a relationship is was only one aspect of my life, and I chose to put this at a lower priority than other aspects (after coming to grips with the concept that no, I could not have it 'all'.  And over time, I am hoping that the relationship continues to improve and my feelings gradually become more positive towards it.

Good luck.  Great work!

 

I think our culture, our media, our fantasies all tell us that the perfect relationship is available somewhere out there.

In my experience, I certainly have never found it. Some relationships resembled it for a few weeks and this marriage I'm in resembled it for a couple of years, but I just don't think it's realistic.

I guess, Flowerpath, I'll ask the same question of you as I ask of myself: Do you want to rekindle your attraction to your husband?

I struggle with this myself and some days I'd answer the question differently. Another factor is that I'm older now and just don't have the hormonal drive that I used to. Frankly, just having a peaceful life sounds pretty good to me right now.

[flowerpath]

I want you all to know that what you wrote is like a gift to me.     I know it took a lot of time.  I read it all again and again, and I do take all of it seriously.  I hope that others who read it find it as helpful as I do.

There are a lot of reasons for staying, but to simplify it, leaving just doesn’t feel right.  I would feel terrible about the ways that would hurt our whole family, as well as each of us individually.  Besides that, this BPD has caused so much trouble in our home that I am determined to do what I can to tip the scales. 

I realized one thing that I am doing.   I am focusing on his annoying BPD traits instead of being thankful for the things that are good about him.   While I am not resentful about the past, I am definitely resentful about the present behavior and cannot think of a single thing about BPD that is attractive. 

I do what the lessons say to do, but as if they are only some kind of outward task.   I primarily see him as someone I don’t trust and have to protect myself from, but since I know how to protect myself by enforcing my boundaries, I need to move past that.  I’ve detached so much that I don’t take what he says personally, but so much of what he says and does (and doesn’t do) is covered with BPD, rather than feel sympathy or empathy for him, I feel annoyed.  Sometimes I’m just plain disgusted. 

I knew that hostility and conflict are the next things I needed to work on, but wasn’t really sure about how to go about pinpointing exactly where to start.  I think a good place to start is my own inner hostility.  I’ve written something like that somewhere... .that I have a lot of work to do in my heart…but until now, didn’t realize that exactly the thing in my heart that I need to work on is my own hostility.  As long as I feel hostile, I will never really be able to care about how he thinks and feels and why he does what he does (or doesn’t do), and why it is that way.  I cannot even imagine his wanting to talk with me about any of that right now. 

[Notwendy]

Flowerpath, I get what you are saying about hostility, and I think it is something we work through over time as we work on ourselves. I don't quite know exactly how this works, only that it did. Working on myself and self care has moved me to a different place over time.

If you read some of my posts, you will see that I too am angry about being  raged at, insuted, blamed. However, part of this is seeing how I was raised and forgiving myself for not knowing any better. Through that, I have been able to also forgive my parents, as I see that they did the best they could too.

It was a shock to me to see a similar pattern in my H and my mother, as they are very different people. It was a larger shock because I know just how difficult it has been to deal with her. One theory about marriage that has resonated with me is the idea that we play out unresolved issues in our childhood in marriage. My childhood idea was to be good enough so that my mother would love me. This is a pretty childish idea, as kids are magical thinkers, but I think it is one that we do bring into adulthood- the idea that we can do something to make someone love us. It is not a surprise that I picked someone who would seem to always be beyond my reach, as my mother was. My H also brought his fears and issues from being raised by a critical and harsh father for whom nothing he did was ever good enough, and why he plays this out with me- his rage and pain, the one who is closest to him, but not as threatening as his father was.

For years, I was afraid, resentful, angry at my mother. What kind of horrible person could do what she did to her own innocent child? However, I came to a point where she no longer triggered me, and I am no longer angry at her. It was also at the same time that I was not drawn into my H's rages. They were still horrible, and hurtful, but they didn't affect me as much. I don't think it was coincidence, but the hard work at looking at my own co-dependency and personal growth that brought me to this point.

Like you, I choose not to leave. I believe I could cause way more damage to all of us if I did. I also realize that my bitterness over how my H treated me has kept me from appreciating what is good about him. Again, the key to my resentment was to stop trying to be what I thought he needed me to be, and to be me, and to take care of me. It's a work in progress, one day at a time.

[Cat Familiar]

I realized one thing that I am doing.   I am focusing on his annoying BPD traits instead of being thankful for the things that are good about him.   While I am not resentful about the past, I am definitely resentful about the present behavior and cannot think of a single thing about BPD that is attractive.  

I do what the lessons say to do, but as if they are only some kind of outward task.   I primarily see him as someone I don’t trust and have to protect myself from, but since I know how to protect myself by enforcing my boundaries, I need to move past that.  I’ve detached so much that I don’t take what he says personally, but so much of what he says and does (and doesn’t do) is covered with BPD, rather than feel sympathy or empathy for him, I feel annoyed.  Sometimes I’m just plain disgusted.  

I knew that hostility and conflict are the next things I needed to work on, but wasn’t really sure about how to go about pinpointing exactly where to start.  I think a good place to start is my own inner hostility.  I’ve written something like that somewhere... .that I have a lot of work to do in my heart…but until now, didn’t realize that exactly the thing in my heart that I need to work on is my own hostility.  As long as I feel hostile, I will never really be able to care about how he thinks and feels and why he does what he does (or doesn’t do), and why it is that way.  I cannot even imagine his wanting to talk with me about any of that right now.  

I know exactly what you mean, Flowerpath. As I began posting here, I started discovering a volcano of suppressed rage. Nearly every post I wrote had the f* word and I was furious about the state of my relationship.

So much of this anger, I now realize, stems from having had to suppress it for a lifetime, starting with a BPD mother, then getting together with my first BPD husband when I was 22, and now this marriage. In none of these relationships was I ever free to express my anger openly and honestly, so I had quite a store of repressed feelings.

Other people see me as such an easygoing, mellow person and that's how I've always seen myself until suddenly I'm confronted with all this fury, hostility and outrage--and it all seemed justified!

So, bit by bit, I've been allowing those feelings their say (but not expressing them to my pwBPD) and gradually they've diminished and I'm starting to feel some real compassion in my heart for my husband, and even my ex-husband--who was a real piece of work--thankfully he has an active arrest warrant in this state, so it's doubtful that I'll ever see him again. But truly forgiving him and letting go of the awful past is freeing to me now.

Anyway, I imagine through your writing that you've always been a kind and helpful person, trying to do your best and probably, like me, suppressing those negative feelings for many years. I think it's a very positive sign that they're coming to the forefront of your awareness and that you're allowing them expression (even though not acting upon them).

In my case, it felt as though there was no end to the negativity I felt, but surprisingly, just giving these thoughts and feelings expression both here, in therapy and in talking with supportive friends, I find their strength and power have diminished greatly.

Much love and support to you.    

[Cat Familiar]

It was a shock to me to see a similar pattern in my H and my mother, as they are very different people. It was a larger shock because I know just how difficult it has been to deal with her. One theory about marriage that has resonated with me is the idea that we play out unresolved issues in our childhood in marriage. My childhood idea was to be good enough so that my mother would love me. This is a pretty childish idea, as kids are magical thinkers, but I think it is one that we do bring into adulthood- the idea that we can do something to make someone love us. It is not a surprise that I picked someone who would seem to always be beyond my reach, as my mother was. My H also brought his fears and issues from being raised by a critical and harsh father for whom nothing he did was ever good enough, and why he plays this out with me- his rage and pain, the one who is closest to him, but not as threatening as his father was.

Yes, I totally see that my subsequent marriages to men with BPD were ways for me to work out my codependency issues with my mother. 

[Cat Familiar]

Flowerpath, thanks for starting this thread. I've realized that I am painting my husband black.  I can see he's trying to do better, so I really should cut him some more slack.

It's those unexpressed feelings that get bottled up and color everything black.

[flowerpath]

You know, though the pwBPD can really stir things up, home still needs to be a good place for them too.  I would not want my brain to be BPD’s playground. 

   

I’m looking at the areas that really get to me, from the easiest to tolerate to the most difficult, and starting with just one, I want to figure out how I can look at it differently, and respond to it differently rather than feel bitter about it.  When I get that one sorted out, then I’ll go to the next one.   Well, that’s about as far as I’ve gotten with it, except for paying attention to what I'm thinking, stopping a bitter feeling in its tracks, and taking my thoughts somewhere better. 

Yeah, Cat, I’m the easygoing, mellow, peace-loving middle child…who has fought like heck at the outrageous things that my H has done. He has always said that I let everyone run all over me except for him.  Funny thing is, HE was actually the only one running all over me!

Notwendy, I took a good long look at the co-dependency and FOO areas too.  That helped me to understand why I ignored the red flags before we were married, why I made the choices that I did, why I responded the way I did to all of the trouble in our marriage, and helped me to put that all behind and forgive myself for…well…being myself.  I’m kinda liking the better me I’m changing into. 

[Cat Familiar]

You know, though the pwBPD can really stir things up, home still needs to be a good place for them too.  I would not want my brain to be BPD’s playground. 

   

I’m looking at the areas that really get to me, from the easiest to tolerate to the most difficult, and starting with just one, I want to figure out how I can look at it differently, and respond to it differently rather than feel bitter about it.  When I get that one sorted out, then I’ll go to the next one.   Well, that’s about as far as I’ve gotten with it, except for paying attention to what I'm thinking, stopping a bitter feeling in its tracks, and taking my thoughts somewhere better. 

Yeah, Cat, I’m the easygoing, mellow, peace-loving middle child…who has fought like heck at the outrageous things that my H has done. He has always said that I let everyone run all over me except for him.  Funny thing is, HE was actually the only one running all over me!

Notwendy, I took a good long look at the co-dependency and FOO areas too.  That helped me to understand why I ignored the red flags before we were married, why I made the choices that I did, why I responded the way I did to all of the trouble in our marriage, and helped me to put that all behind and forgive myself for…well…being myself.  I’m kinda liking the better me I’m changing into. 

That's a good strategy, Flowerpath, to pick one thing and reframe it. When I've suppressed my anger for a long time, little things like him not taking the overflowing recycling bin just outside the house to the garbage area can drive me crazy. (That's the one of the few tasks he promised to take responsibility for.) Lazy jerk! 

I've been trying to appreciate the good things too, but when I'm in a black mood, it's hard. But there are a lot of good things in my life that he brings. So I have to keep reminding myself what they are.

I, too, like who I'm evolving into. And it's nice to forgive oneself first--like putting the oxygen mask on ourselves before we can help anyone else. 

[Stalwart]

I'm humbled by what I read here and see in so many posting.

It is so difficult to pull yourself from broken, pull the pieces together, stand up straight and follow a vision forward that will so redefine your life and do it.

I truly believe that every struggle we face and how we face them is a path to who we really are and I see so many awesome people on that path here and doing it in such an inspirational and self-assertive direction.

NotWendy (   thanks), Cat, flowerpath and everyone contributing to this post bring awe to the recognition of not only the possibility but also the ability to 'move forward' in such a powerful and healthy way. So many comments that underline the final realization that nothing external can complete us, whether it's a marriage or a spouse but that completeness comes from within. I truly believe that when we find ourselves and validate ourselves to recognize and like our best qualities; the external will just be there as a consequence of who we've become.

I could take so many lines from everyone here and speak to them but they all really come to one thing: the empowerment of self-recognition and you folks are so inspirational with your recognitions and growth. I've always said that the most wonderful thing about my path from the darkness to enlightenment was my own self-growth and who I've become as a result. To know that the path you are on is the RIGHT path gives it so much meaning, strength and resolve that can't be waivered. It takes resolve and strength, determination and want and I see so many of the best of those qualities in everything all of you have posted.

I'm really humbled by reading this and seeing just how beautifully you all reach out to each other.

Really great post and a pleasure to read through.

[JohnLove]

Hello Stalwart. I happened upon you OP as I wondered if anyone would find validity in the title. A bit like fighting evil with evil.  

What I came across was very enlightening and pretty darn helpful. I believe you found what you need and now your path and your words have become an inspiration to others... .and that very same path is waiting for every one of us.  

[downwhim]

This is such good reading. Painting him black. I think I am guilty of this. The rages and devaluation came on and I detached. I felt less than when I honestly was trying to be more than.

The thought that growing old together would never truly happen. The image of what I thought a couple was suppose to look like got so diminished. His eyes his yelling and his unique way of taking the good and making it bad wore on me. How could I ever win? How could I express my love to it's fullest and not be made out to be a fool? So painful and unhealthy.

[Stalwart]

JohnLove thanks for the reply:

"that very same path is waiting for every one of us." You don't know how much I hope for that for the people here - everyone deserves that.

[flowerpath]

The timing of this thread coming back around today was perfect.  I needed to read all of this again... .today.   

[goodintentions]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences here; this thread is tremendously relevant to me right now.

What I struggle with now, is communicating these complex feelings in such a way that she feels loved and cared about. She really values romance, and often points out how I've gotten less romantic over the years (which I interpret as not doing all the little cute things I did for her when I was single and had plenty of free time).

Has anyone successfully navigated those "state of the relationship" discussions when the relationship is clearly strained?

[Stalwart]

Goodintentions my friend:

Great post – great question. It took personal courage to recognize and post this.

It really is amazing how relevance is so common to all of us in so many topics, contingencies and issues.

You’ve hit a huge nail right on the head here from my perspective in the black and white phenomenon. In my case in the past to turn around my relationship and repaint the palette in a relatively consistent ‘colour’ I really had to recognize this in myself. All too often I think I was able to use both a diagnosis vs. my own complacency, maybe reactions, or maybe even faults combined with ego issues as a crutch. I think that’s a dangerous place to go. Sometimes it really doesn’t have as much to do with borderline affects as it just does common sense in any relationship.

I had to tackle a huge personal rebuild and it was right along the same lines that you’ve so aptly pointed out goodintentions. What did happen to that guy she met and fell for? The guy who WOULD take the time to do the small things that enforced love, want, and be attentive to enforcing that. The occasional bunch of flowers for no reason at all apart from thoughtfulness – the random texts saying that I missed her and couldn’t wait to get home. The gentle touches on the face and kiss when you got in to say I love you, thought about and glad I’m here with you. The leaning over the bed in the morning as I left to say I love you, have a great day and I can't wait to see you tonight - call me; Just to disuade and speak to her insecurities waking each day.The same attentiveness that almost any wife would appreciate, value and take self-esteem and validation from with her choices.

I’m as guilty of sin of “used to have time for” and letting the person she did meet slip away into complacency. I was not the guy she met, the guy she admired or the guy she needed and chose as a result. I found time and rebuilt that same guy and live him every day. I built constancy in the reminder of not only devotion and consideration by leaving reminders behind me for her to visually see in my absence but was able in part to address the inward horror of not being worthy or deserving to love. It took time and concerted effort to do that sincerely and naturally again but it’s doable.

I guess “no time” really does come down to placing value on what time is well spent and the rewards that come out of it in a life. Every moment found and spent in turning myself around in this regard has been rewarded with harmony, peace and happiness. For me that was a really big value in the time spent – for her it was HUGE. Now there’s time well spent.