How to Deal with my nonSO's Past Debts

[Panda39]

I have a great relationship going with my SO. We have been together for 4.5 years, we don't live together (our lives are established with kids and 40 miles apart) but we happily see each other frequently.  Someday I would like us to live together but I am concerned about how he manages money.  

He was married to a uBPDxw that I would describe as a con artist.  He did his best to manage her behaviors but we all know that we can only control our own behaviors.  Codependence with a BPD con artist is not going to turn out well.

His ex has "borrowed" thousands of dollars from friends and never paid it back, she promised a substantial donation of money to her Rabbi for a project the he began work on only to never be paid,  she did the same thing to a summer camp she went to as a child, she created LLC's just to have a business name no real business, she worked on weird stock deals promised money from those deals (that never came to fruition) to other people that made plans expecting payment, was taken to court for felony fraud for one of her "business deals" (got off on a technicality),  she collected money to take her kids and several others to a broadway play and instead took the money and only returned it when a local news station (tipped off by one of the other parents) called to "investigate" where the money went, she wracked up thousands of dollars in medical bills (hypochondria), she went to the mall, shopped QVC, and logged in monthly phone bills in the hundreds of dollars (pre-cell phone).

What was my SO doing?  Working his butt off, taking care of the kids, cooking, grocery shopping, trying to pay bills and doing his best to manage his wife and her issues.

Debt steadily grew... .Oh forgot to mention they didn't file income tax for 10 years  .  Then came unemployment.  My SO lost his job. Couldn't make rent, showers at the local rec center, car died... .He couldn't find a job and she didn't even try to look for one.

Imagine the stress. Imagine the stress with a BPD wife.   :'(

The marriage was falling apart my SO couldn't do it anymore and tells her he wants a divorce... .my SO finally lands a new job just in time for the landlord to tell them they were to be evicted.  My SO looks for an apartment for his daughters and himself only to find out there is no eviction.  The wife ends up with custody (initially) and is up to her usual tricks... .conning the landlord... .the money is on it's way... .only have to close on a deal... .my husband was abusive... .I'm a single mother... .you don't want my daughters to be homeless?... .I have some horrible disease... .she managed to get a year of rent free living off the landlord before he finally evicted her.

They divorce... .have a mountain of debt that includes, back taxes and penalties, medical bills, student loans, back rent and legal fees.  The cherry on top is that he has to pay her alimony.

I tell you all this so you can see the financial dynamic in the marriage... .her always with the "big deal" in works and him exhausted, trying to control the household finances and at the same time hoping the "big deal" comes through.  In reality money just goes pouring out neither able to manage it.

My SO is paying his current debts and has filed his back taxes.

What concerns me is that he has done nothing in the last 4.5 years to deal with his past debt.  He has talked about filing for bankruptcy but has done nothing (isn't saving for a lawyer), he isn't making any effort to pay any of this past debt (because of alimony he can't be garnished), he spends money on fun stuff while sweeping everything else under the carpet.

UBPDex has been evicted a total of 3 times and is currently up on felony fraud charges and also has a civil case against her.

So dad is demonstrating some financial responsibility and mom only demonstrates financial irresponsibility.

Enter D18 that is ready to go to college.  Mom is promising the moon and dad is discussing reality.  :)18 chooses the moon and goes across the country to a private liberal arts college (against dad's objections) that mom will pay for out of a "family trust" and did I tell you that mom is also "buying" the President of the college a house  

Yes, buying a 2m dollar house... .Ms. evicted 3 times... .living in a hotel... .con artist is buying a 2m dollar house!

D18 comes home for Christmas break and is told not to return because of lack of payment.  So much for the  "family trust".  :)18 is devastated and now owes 15,000 (scholarships/grants paid for some tuition).  The house deal got far enough along that uBPDxw screwed the college president, the seller and other buyer.  The house project was how daughter managed to stay a whole semester without paying.  


D18 had some financial aid funds left for this semester so enrolled in her local state college this semester.  Meanwhile $15,000 private college debt is going to collections. Dad is blaming mom and wants her to take responsibility... .when has she ever taken responsibility?  :)ad wants to rescue but can't. D18 wants to go to summer school full-time to make up for her wasted first semester.  :)ad wants daughter to continue full-time at school too.  :)ad is now entertaining the idea of consulting a lawyer to see if mom can be forced to take responsibility... .Really he won't even consult a lawyer for his own debt?

Is it me or do we have the rug lifted and the broom out again?  

D18 is part of the equation here too, she made choices, she signed paperwork and she attended classes for a semester (services were provided).

How about D18, who lives at home takes control... .takes responsibility for her debt and gets a job this summer instead of summer school?  How about D18 goes to school part-time and works part-time?  How about we pay our debt or at the very least make a good faith effort to do so?  Instead of looking for ways to get out of it?

I don't want anyone reading this to think I think D18 is to blame for this situation because I most definitely do not. Every child wants to believe in their parents.  What her mother did and continues to do is despicable     However, there are natural consequences to our actions in this world.  :)18 no longer sees her mother... .that's the natural consequence of her lies and deception.  :)18 attended a school for a semester that didn't get paid... .don't pay?... .collections is the natural consequence.

I just want to see someone... .anyone... .step up and do the right thing which is work to pay off the tuition bill.  I don't see anyone taking responsibility and that concerns me.

Because of our very different ways of looking at money I have a boundary and that is to not marry my SO and become legally/financially entangled... protecting myself. Wouldn't mind living in sin though  

Okay that is the end of my long venting rant   Thanks for letting me get this off my chest.  I have spoken to my SO but he and his daughter will do whatever they do.  I know I can't control what they do (as much as I'd like too  )


Thanks for listening.

Panda

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[DreamGirl]

Panda, this situation with your SD has just been a thorn in your side since it all happened. I empathize so much with you --- you know, when you see the train coming down the tracks and no matter how much you scream, yell, warn ----- they just don't get out of the way. And then there you are after the disaster ensues, hand over your mouth so you don't blurt out "I told you so."

It's also part of being in a blended family, where you have to "be supportive" of your husband in his dealings with the ex and the kiddos... .and sometimes that involves decisions you don't support. It's also hard for us to always understand where our partners are coming from because we are blessed with a bird eye's view where they're not. For me, when it's not my actual children, I'm not blinded with that overwhelming need to protect them from the decisions that they make. I'm more inclined to let them learn for their mistakes. Sometimes I think I'm a better stepmom then I am a mom in that sense.  

Because of our very different ways of looking at money I have a boundary and that is to not marry my SO and become legally/financially entangled... protecting myself. Wouldn't mind living in sin though.

So, I have to say that in this day and age? Absolutely.

I also think this is why you have so much invested? This part is your future at stake. You love him, you want a life with him.

Has he made any efforts at all? Dealing with debt is so stressful, so he might just be looking at this huge problem that seems so overwhelming, he can't deal with it. Is there a way to help him feel like you are his cheerleader and not his nagging wife?  Perhaps helping him be more open to your help?

I helped my husband by totalling it all up for him, I even called and was willing to negotiate deals with the credit card companies. It wasn't as scary as he thought. I helped him because it was helping me too.

Have you considered maybe talking to a financial planner? a debt counselor?

Some kind of third party that might help give him a better idea of what he's facing?

---DreamGirl

[Panda39]

Thanks for your response DreamGirl.

Your right we are all struggling with this.  I appreciate your suggestions that's one of the reasons I bring things here.  I appreciate an outside viewpoint. 

Dealing with debt is so stressful, so he might just be looking at this huge problem that seems so overwhelming, he can't deal with it.

This is where he is and he is kind of paralyzed by it all. We are investigating options, going to ask for some legal advice. 

We talked a little bit about things tonight and he mentioned filing his own bankruptcy, and I was glad to hear that was at least still on his radar and not completely dropped.  Part of what I worry about the most that it doesn't ever get dealt with and he doesn't ever get out from under it.

Is there a way to help him feel like you are his cheerleader and not his nagging wife?

This is also why I posted because I don't want to be the "nagging wife" I need to talk about it and work my way through it without causing him additional stress or pressure... .so I come here.

I appreciate the "stepmom" support 

[DreamGirl]

This is where he is and he is kind of paralyzed by it all. We are investigating options, going to ask for some legal advice.  

We talked a little bit about things tonight and he mentioned filing his own bankruptcy, and I was glad to hear that was at least still on his radar and not completely dropped.  Part of what I worry about the most that it doesn't ever get dealt with and he doesn't ever get out from under it.

Is there a way to "help" by creating some deadlines in this? Let's make a decision on a lawyer by the end of the month.

Offer other kinds of suggestions in ways you can help? Let's get a copy of your credit report by the end of the week.



I say this because sometimes when we you are creating a team (marriages are all about teamwork), it's OK when there is a weakness in your teammate to offer that helping hand. And doing it in a way that is assisting and not just taking it over.

Can you sit down together? Come up with a plan where you are doing part of it and he is doing part of it? Get a calendar and make some goals? (A lot of it can be grunt work -- making phone calls, getting credit reports, etc.)

This is also why I posted because I don't want to be the "nagging wife" I need to talk about it and work my way through it without causing him additional stress or pressure... .so I come here.

I get it. I'm also a control freak. I like it done my way.  

So it becomes a balancing act. Your SO has been through a lot and has sacrificed a lot it sounds like. At some point, blaming the ex becomes counter-productive in that it doesn't solve anything to be angry and resentful. It's time to do a little less talking and a little more action.

You can validate that he's mad (he has every right to be) but at what point do we move on from the angry place and just start digging ourselves out of the hole we ended up in?

I think now is a better time then any.  

[Panda39]

Is there a way to "help" by creating some deadlines in this? Let's make a decision on a lawyer by the end of the month.

Offer other kinds of suggestions in ways you can help? Let's get a copy of your credit report by the end of the week.



I say this because sometimes when we you are creating a team (marriages are all about teamwork), it's OK when there is a weakness in your teammate to offer that helping hand. And doing it in a way that is assisting and not just taking it over.

Can you sit down together? Come up with a plan where you are doing part of it and he is doing part of it? Get a calendar and make some goals? (A lot of it can be grunt work -- making phone calls, getting credit reports, etc.)

I like the idea of the deadlines in small increments, it would be a good way to make the whole thing not feel so overwhelming to my SO but still move along which would help me. 

This is also why I posted because I don't want to be the "nagging wife" I need to talk about it and work my way through it without causing him additional stress or pressure... .so I come here.

I get it. I'm also a control freak. I like it done my way.  

I'm a control freak too probably plus some!  I do tend to just plow through things... .I'm coming from a coependent marriage to an alcoholic where I did everything which is probably also another reason why I'm so frustrated... .my own issues.   But the good news is at least I see many of my own issues these days 

Thanks for your suggestions.  I'll talk to my honey about breaking things down into smaller parts with deadlines and see what he thinks of that approach.

[vortex of confusion]

I couldn't tell from reading the various posts if he had clearly determined which debts he was responsible for and which ones belong to those of his ex. If that hasn't been determined, that might be the place to start. Make sure that he isn't paying for anything that isn't his responsibility.

Also, take stock of which debts are secured and which debts are unsecured. Also, check the laws in your state to see what the laws are regarding the different types of debts. If anything has gone into collections, it is important to know your rights and what the the company can or can't do to you.

Before seeing a debt counselor or a lawyer, he will need to write out a list of all of his debtors and get a rough estimate of what he owes. I don't think you can file for bankruptcy without going through debt counseling. It is all part of a process.

[Grey Kitty]

Besides the good and practical advice you've had here, I'm going to suggest you look at your assumptions/conclusions closely.

Today, you are living 40 miles apart, and both have established kids/jobs/etc. It sounds like you aren't planning to do the blended family thing.

Your concerns about his finances are valid.

You hope that this relationship will continue, and that living together will work in the future.

I'm thinking that whether he gets his financial act completely together or not, you could still move in with him and keep (most of) your finances separate. If you are renting, it seems particularly easy. If you own a house, or want to buy a house, it is more complicated... .but surmountable.

As long as his finances are his problem, and you care enough to give him advice (especially if he asks for it!), but know it isn't your problem, and keep your finances safe from  his problems... .it doesn't need to slow down other aspects of your relationship with him.