Hi - new to forums

[maemo]

Hello everyone.

I had registered for these forums weeks ago but am finally posting an introduction now because my mother is being crazy. I'm currently in therapy and based on my experiences, my therapist thinks my mother exhibits many BPD symptoms and behaviors. I agree. My mother, however, is undiagnosed, and vehemently opposed to therapy.

I am here for support and to talk with others who have to go through similar experiences or who have equally trying relationships with close family members.

Today what triggered my reaching out on these forums is that my mother is coming to our house (I live with my husband) for Easter. I asked her to please come on Saturday. She then, of course, had to push it, and said she had Friday off and asked if she could come on Friday. I told her, no, we are busy on Friday, please come on Saturday. She then kept asking, "are you sure I can't come on Friday?" several times over. This was over the course of last week. Then today, I went out and bought all the ingredients for Easter dinner, as well as a little gift for her for Easter, and called her to tell her she doesn't have to bring anything. Guess what she asks? "Are you sure I can't come Friday? I have Friday off." I repeated to her that my husband and I are busy on Friday. Then she has the gall to ask, "Well what are you doing on Friday?" I said, "We're going out." She then asks, "Where are you going?" Like, WHAT? Seriously? I said, "Mom, that's our business. We're just going to do something the two of us on Friday." Then, she started sobbing uncontrollably, saying she'll "never ask me what my plans are" again. This is so common for her - this jumping from one extreme emotion to the next. It makes me so angry. I asked her, "Well why are you so hung up on Friday?" And she goes, "I was just trying to make conversation." I said, "No, you weren't. You were trying to see if we were actually doing something Friday or if we were just saying that so you wouldn't come." Then, somehow magically, her sobs stop! Then she goes into sullen, resentful mood. She asked how my birthday was in the most depressed tone ever. She doesn't even care about my birthday - she's just trying to make me feel guilty. I really can't stand her sometimes.

For anyone else, this incident may not seem like a big deal - but this battle is constant with her. Any time I am assertive, it's a real struggle, and this woman has been violating my boundaries since I was a little girl. I am sick of her doing it.

Even on my birthday, I told her I would wake up and call her when we were ready for her to come. Nope, she sends me a text at 10AM saying she's on her way. She just doesn't respect my boundaries AT ALL.

The other thing that bothers me is she wants her immediate family to hate each other and all love her and do what she wants. I asked her if she had talked to my brother, and she said, "No, why have you talked to him?" Then I said he had called me on my birthday, and she sounded DEPRESSED that he had called me, and said, "Oh that's nice... ."

And when I spend any time with my dad at all (and trust me, that's almost next to zero because he only has time for her), she gets incredibly jealous. She gets jealous of everyone I spend time with. I was talking to my dad because she went to bed early, and the next day she kept repeating over and over and over again, "Well I heard you two laughing last night, sounds like you were having a good time... ." and she said it in that tone, "you must love him more than me" tone that she uses to try to make me feel guilty.

Can anyone relate to this craziness? I extremely dislike her about 99.9% of the time. Makes me wonder why I continue this relationship.

[Linda Maria]

Hi Maemo!  Can totally relate to your post, and you will find that many others here will also.  The person in my life with BPD is my sister - undiagnosed.  I have always had a walking on eggshells relationship with her, we are now both in our early fifties, and I guess because I moved permanently out of home in my mid twenties, and haven't had to spend prolonged amounts of time with her, and have always been careful not to say anything that would set her off, the relationship was ok.  When my Mum died 2 years ago she turned on me big time, and has waged a completely bizarre and vile smear campaign against me ever since.  It has been a hellish 2 years, and I had to instruct a solicitor of my own, as she made it impossible to sort out my Mum's estate as we are co-executors.  We are nearly at the end of the legal stuff now, I am NC as far as possible, and once the legal stuff is over, I won't look back.  I think I came close to a nervous breakdown with the sheer nastiness and madness of it in 2013, on top of losing my Mum, and I'd lost my job, and am the family breadwinner.  No-one has the right to make you feel like that or behave like that.  If I'm so terrible, fine, keep away from me, but don't keep writing to me accusing me of completely mad stuff that no-one in their right mind would believe anyway.  So - when you say you really would rather not have the relationship that really resonated with me.  It doesn't feel good to say you don't want to have a relationship with a close family member, but it's so much worse to tolerate this kind of negativity and stress in your life, so do what feels right for you, set firm boundaries, don't get into arguments, don't defend your position, you don't need to justify yourself to her, stick to your guns.  Good luck with it! 

[claudiaduffy]

Hi, maemo!  

I'm groaning in solidarity with you and rolling my eyes at your mom's behaviors. I think we maybe have the same mom.  

Yes, yes, yes! I *hate* the constant attempts to question my plans, scold me for my actions and preferences when they are not what she wants, turn anything good in my life into an occasion for her to feel bad and try to elicit compassion from me about HER life. Your story about the Friday visit made me laugh so hard - it's so typical. My mom found out this last Christmas that my husband and I would be visiting friends in the same town where my brother and sister live; she then made plans (only two weeks in advance) to come visit my sister and get all of us together. She called to ask me for my schedule so we could spend as much time as possible together. I told her, firmly, "Mom, we are visiting THESE OTHER FRIENDS for Christmas. We are only spending time with them. We have other friends and relatives in that area too, but we're not going to see them. We are going to spend time with our hosts, not use them as a hotel while we visit other people." This got the response of "But I'm driving 12 hours to see you! [whiny, haughty voice] I thought families were TOGETHER for Christmas." At that point I just got off the phone with a polite "I love you, mom. We can probably work out some time to see you by coming up to town a few hours earlier than we'd planned, but we are not going to go back on our plans with our hosts." (The whole thing ended up being for nothing, as she got pneumonia and couldn't come visit at all.)

And the jealousy over other relationships... .ARGH, YES. All during my teen years, the refrain of "you love your dad more than you love me" or "you don't act like that when you GRANDMA asks you to do x". All during college, in response to any story of a fun time I had with friends, "Well, when I was in college, I had to actually STUDY all the time" (this, even though I maintained a 4.0 almost every semester.) Currently, on Facebook - constantly trying to jump into conversations I have with friends, using nicknames she's made up, pretending closeness and demanding explanations of inside jokes.

You say you wonder why you're in a relationship with her - and I know what that feels like. I wish only the best for my mom, but I also refuse to let that "best" be that I become the self-serving doll that she wants me to be. The only way I can stay in contact with her is to keep her at arms-length. She lives 12 hours away from me and I call her once every 2-3 weeks. I don't know what on earth I'd do if she lived as close as your mom.

Are you usually able to uphold the boundaries you set with her? For example, when she calls to say she's coming over, can you tell her (and stick with it) that you are not ready for the visit but will be at *specific time* and then just not answer the door if she knocks? Are you able to limit her phone calls to times that are good for you?

[maemo]

Hi Maemo!  Can totally relate to your post, and you will find that many others here will also.  The person in my life with BPD is my sister - undiagnosed.  I have always had a walking on eggshells relationship with her, we are now both in our early fifties, and I guess because I moved permanently out of home in my mid twenties, and haven't had to spend prolonged amounts of time with her, and have always been careful not to say anything that would set her off, the relationship was ok.  When my Mum died 2 years ago she turned on me big time, and has waged a completely bizarre and vile smear campaign against me ever since.  It has been a hellish 2 years, and I had to instruct a solicitor of my own, as she made it impossible to sort out my Mum's estate as we are co-executors.  We are nearly at the end of the legal stuff now, I am NC as far as possible, and once the legal stuff is over, I won't look back.  I think I came close to a nervous breakdown with the sheer nastiness and madness of it in 2013, on top of losing my Mum, and I'd lost my job, and am the family breadwinner.  No-one has the right to make you feel like that or behave like that.  If I'm so terrible, fine, keep away from me, but don't keep writing to me accusing me of completely mad stuff that no-one in their right mind would believe anyway.  So - when you say you really would rather not have the relationship that really resonated with me.  It doesn't feel good to say you don't want to have a relationship with a close family member, but it's so much worse to tolerate this kind of negativity and stress in your life, so do what feels right for you, set firm boundaries, don't get into arguments, don't defend your position, you don't need to justify yourself to her, stick to your guns.  Good luck with it! 

Hi Linda Maria!

Thank you for your response. I'm sorry to hear of all the stress you had to go through with your mom's estate. It's always sad to me when families can't come together when a loved one passes. I totally agree with you that boundaries are key. I often feel like I only stay in a relationship with my mother because I feel like I "should" - I feel this pressing obligation. I also have a father who was not involved in my life (and still isn't) for the most part. He is a workaholic and my emotional needs were always cast aside. I used to cut him a lot of slack and idolize him (we had to), but now I am starting to see (with therapy) how sick and dysfunctional THE TWO of them are. It's not just my mom. They operate in this dysfunctional pair. My mom violates my boundaries, and if I say that I want a relationship with my dad, it's always, "Well your mom is available" - it's as if he uses her to have a controlled, vicarious relationship with his children. He always prioritized himself and his work over his family, to the point that it was incredibly distressing. I remember once being sick with flu and begging him to stay with me, but he said he couldn't because he was afraid he would get sick and have to call out of work. It makes me sad that he could turn me away, when I was crying and scared, because he wanted to be able to work. And my mom, during this same time I had flu, told me I deserved it because I didn't take care of her when she had it. It's just sheer craziness. I don't know how I got through all of the abuse and neglect.

And now, there are the same patterns. My mom is coming for Easter - my dad isn't. He has 0% interest in seeing my house or knowing about my life. He never calls, rarely texts. One time I sent him a long email telling him how much I loved him and he responded, "Ok." When I tried to go no contact with my mom, he called me (THEN he called, because she had him) and told me that if I didn't want her in my life, he wouldn't have me in his. That was crushing for me. Absolutely crushing. And it was also what made me cave to have her in my life again. But like my therapist said, it was really a manipulative rouse... .I don't get my dad either way. He doesn't care. He didn't call on my birthday, and I mentioned it to my mom, and she defended him (of course!), and said, "He was tired, he worked." My dad lives in a delusional, mythical world where only he works, and he thinks that because he works, he doesn't have to emotionally engage with anyone in his family.

So I guess it's more complex than deciding whether I want no contact with my mom or not. It's about the two of them - how they come in this package deal - and if I decide NC with one, I have to also decide NC with the other.

[maemo]

Hi, maemo!  

I'm groaning in solidarity with you and rolling my eyes at your mom's behaviors. I think we maybe have the same mom.  

Yes, yes, yes! I *hate* the constant attempts to question my plans, scold me for my actions and preferences when they are not what she wants, turn anything good in my life into an occasion for her to feel bad and try to elicit compassion from me about HER life. Your story about the Friday visit made me laugh so hard - it's so typical. My mom found out this last Christmas that my husband and I would be visiting friends in the same town where my brother and sister live; she then made plans (only two weeks in advance) to come visit my sister and get all of us together. She called to ask me for my schedule so we could spend as much time as possible together. I told her, firmly, "Mom, we are visiting THESE OTHER FRIENDS for Christmas. We are only spending time with them. We have other friends and relatives in that area too, but we're not going to see them. We are going to spend time with our hosts, not use them as a hotel while we visit other people." This got the response of "But I'm driving 12 hours to see you! [whiny, haughty voice] I thought families were TOGETHER for Christmas." At that point I just got off the phone with a polite "I love you, mom. We can probably work out some time to see you by coming up to town a few hours earlier than we'd planned, but we are not going to go back on our plans with our hosts." (The whole thing ended up being for nothing, as she got pneumonia and couldn't come visit at all.)

And the jealousy over other relationships... .ARGH, YES. All during my teen years, the refrain of "you love your dad more than you love me" or "you don't act like that when you GRANDMA asks you to do x". All during college, in response to any story of a fun time I had with friends, "Well, when I was in college, I had to actually STUDY all the time" (this, even though I maintained a 4.0 almost every semester.) Currently, on Facebook - constantly trying to jump into conversations I have with friends, using nicknames she's made up, pretending closeness and demanding explanations of inside jokes.

You say you wonder why you're in a relationship with her - and I know what that feels like. I wish only the best for my mom, but I also refuse to let that "best" be that I become the self-serving doll that she wants me to be. The only way I can stay in contact with her is to keep her at arms-length. She lives 12 hours away from me and I call her once every 2-3 weeks. I don't know what on earth I'd do if she lived as close as your mom.

Are you usually able to uphold the boundaries you set with her? For example, when she calls to say she's coming over, can you tell her (and stick with it) that you are not ready for the visit but will be at *specific time* and then just not answer the door if she knocks? Are you able to limit her phone calls to times that are good for you?

Hi Claudiaduffy!

Thanks for your response. It sounds like we have *very similar* mothers! My mom also used to have the refrain, "You love your dad more than me." My brother and I always felt guilted into showering her with praise and telling her how much we loved her, and how great a mom she was, even sometimes after she would abuse us. She was infamous for abuse followed by, "Okay, now come give me a hug." When I was in middle school, I never hugged her because I associated it with pain and humiliation and one time she wanted a hug, and I refused. Guess what she did? Took all of my things out of my room. And my neglectful father just sat on the couch watching TV and said, "It's between you two." It was utterly traumatizing. Why anyone would even want a hug that is completely forced is beyond me. Her thinking was, "I give you all these things, so I deserve hugs when I want them. You should love me because I give you so many gifts." She's crazy. She has ALWAYS used gifts as a means of control, inducing guilt, manipulation. The stressful part is, the gifts you give her are NEVER enough or good. She complains every Christmas about everything everyone gives her. It's actually really stressful. She makes a big show of buying everyone mountains of gifts and then you try really hard to please her, and she's never happy. She also never cooked, but no matter what my dad cooked, there would be something wrong with it. It was really frustrating to my brother and me.

Back to the "you love your dad more than me" - I SO RELATE! I so relate to that. She used to always tell my brother and me, "I don't know why you love your dad so much. I'm the one who takes you everywhere. I'm the one who buys you things. We wouldn't have Christmas if it weren't for me." I didn't even realize how sick those statements were when I was little. Now I totally see it.

I also completely relate to you about the jealousy over other relationships. My mom is sad whenever I talk to anyone but her. If I talk to my uncles or aunts, she gets mopey and says she doesn't like them. It's always made me feel like I have to criticize other people around her, or downplay other relationships. The funny part about this is, I hate my relationship with her. I should be pursuing other relationships freely without concern for her feelings, but sometimes she does hinder other relationships. Or she uses her manipulative games to try to damage the relationships.

Did your Mom ever ask you if she was a good mom? My mom would constantly ask the question, "I think I was a great Mom, wasn't I?" For years and years, my brother and I would indulge her and tell her yeah. I finally stopped indulging the question but occasionally she still brings it up. She was a TERRIBLE mother and I hate that she constantly tries to get us to tell her how wonderful she was. It's sick.

Also you didn't mention your father - how was he? Was he involved at all in enabling your mom? I'd be curious to learn more about others full family dynamics. I wrote about my father in my reply to Linda above. I used to just 100% villify my mom and think she was the entire problem, but over time I've come to see that's not the case.

Your last paragraph - well, no, I haven't been successful at asserting my boundaries with her. I am trying, though, and therapy is helping me tremendously. This whole Easter deal was my first time asserting a boundary with her in a long time. I can't get her to call only when I am able to receive calls because she will just keep calling and calling. She also leaves a voicemail EVERY TIME. And the voicemails get meaner and meaner as they go along. Eventually I cave and always call her. But next time, I'm not going to. I haven't turned her away when she's shown up randomly.

Thanks again for your reply.

[claudiaduffy]

Did your Mom ever ask you if she was a good mom? My mom would constantly ask the question, "I think I was a great Mom, wasn't I?" For years and years, my brother and I would indulge her and tell her yeah. I finally stopped indulging the question but occasionally she still brings it up. She was a TERRIBLE mother and I hate that she constantly tries to get us to tell her how wonderful she was. It's sick.

Also you didn't mention your father - how was he? Was he involved at all in enabling your mom? I'd be curious to learn more about others full family dynamics. I wrote about my father in my reply to Linda above. I used to just 100% villify my mom and think she was the entire problem, but over time I've come to see that's not the case.

The "am I a good mom" thing is not a constant with my mother, though she used to do that more often than she does now; she more often makes statements, not questions. "I know there are things I could have done better, but I was a good mom to you in [this particular aspect]." Statements that could be fishing for affirmation, but also can be left unanswered (and implicitly agreed-to in that case.) I usually don't take the bait unless it's an aspect that I actually do agree about. There WERE several things that my mom did well with us.

There have been notable exceptions. Like the time she called me (I was a college senior) in hysterics, sobbing so hard I could barely understand her, driving home from a marriage counselor's office where she had been with my dad. "Your father said that you children were terrified of me when you were little. That's not true, is it? Why would he say something like that? Is it true?"   ... .I wish this incident had happened a mere three or four years later, when I had a better toolkit for handling that kind of attack. At the time, I was afraid she was going to drive off the road and kill herself, so I tried to calm her down while trying to also defend my dad, saying something like "Oh, you know how deeply kids feel things. Maybe it came from something I said when I was little and didn't want a spanking or something." - even though I knew it was true and was a little surprised that my dad had said anything that clearly to the counselor. My dad and I had had one single conversation, when I was about thirteen, when I told him I was afraid of what my mom would do the next day when he went to work (we had had a big blowup about something where my father refused to punish me over something my mom had thought I was guilty of.)

My dad, in general, was non-combative but not particularly enabling of my mom's disorderedness. He didn't go out of his way to pacify her, and tried mostly to deflect her rage off of us and then get out of her way himself when he was around. He never spoke ill of her to us, but he also never excused her behavior to us. For a long time, I held him guiltless regarding the chaos that haunted our home, because I saw his handling of it to be pretty honorable; giving her respect she didn't deserve, teaching us by example how to bear it all with patience, et cetera. Later on I had (still have) to deal with a lot of anger towards him for what he DIDN'T do. He didn't get her the psychological help she needed (he doesn't believe in therapists; all the marriage counselors they saw were her idea, not his.) He didn't go through the church (and we were members of a fairly healthy church; I still know many of the people we were close to there, and I believe they could have done some good) to help spread out the burden of getting to the bottom of her rages and manipulation while keeping us kids in emotional safety.

He didn't try to use me as an emotional fill-in for my mother, but he didn't stop her from using me as an emotional fill-in for HIM. And later, when all of us were grown and out of the house, he left her, stopped giving her any money toward the house payments on the house they legally co-own, and hasn't tried to divorce her because he doesn't have the money for the legal battle (she does not want a divorce and is convinced that God will restore her marriage and return her erring husband to her side.)

And just a day ago, I found out that my mom has a mass in her neck that her doctor thinks is probably her breast cancer returning after 10 years of being in the clear. She called to tell me this, and then started in on "this is worse than the first time, because now I am all alone."

Well, you know what? The reason you're all alone is because we had the kind of home that brings kids to want to move 800 miles away. And I'll be damned if I am going to cave again, like I did as a teenager, and be the emotional support to you that your husband and your friends should be. And if you no longer have a husband and friends, that may not entirely be your fault, but I promise you that you had a hand in it.

... .I won't hijack your thread with my ranting on this topic!

Your last paragraph - well, no, I haven't been successful at asserting my boundaries with her. I am trying, though, and therapy is helping me tremendously. This whole Easter deal was my first time asserting a boundary with her in a long time. I can't get her to call only when I am able to receive calls because she will just keep calling and calling. She also leaves a voicemail EVERY TIME. And the voicemails get meaner and meaner as they go along. Eventually I cave and always call her. But next time, I'm not going to. I haven't turned her away when she's shown up randomly.

Thanks again for your reply.

Setting up boundaries with phone calls was a GIGANTIC stress in my life for the first, oh, year or two I tried it. But I can tell you that it gets better as you get practice with it, and it is so very worth it! You can do it! I'm glad you have someone to help bear the load; is your husband a good support for you in all of this?

[Spruce927]

Hi Maemo,

First off welcome to these forums.  I am new as well and I can tell you that posting and reading has been a great help in the process of dealing with my uBPD mother.  Finally understanding her condition was an amazing help to me and I hope it will be for you as well. 

I would also like to let you know you are not alone.  I guess for so long I thought I was the only person with a mother who had such bizarre behavior.  There is peace in knowing that people understand. 

I must also say wow!  Reading your post is like reading my moms behavior word for word!  They ALWAYS push.  I don't understand why, but it's like a compulsion they have.  My mom would do the same thing.  Let me use for example a short day trip we were taking to NYC.  I agreed to go with her Saturday morning.  The train from Philly left at around 9 am.  This is not some crazy time in the morning.  I planned on meeting her at the train station.  She then asked me NUMEROUS times if I could stay over the night before because the train is "so early."  No matter how many times I told her no, or explained to her that it wouldn't make sense/I couldn't due to logistics and my pets, she would get so upset.  At one point she SLAMMED down the phone after saying me "just forget it the trip is off!."  This I find is typical BPD behavior. 

It's interesting that you bring up easter, as I know that holidays for some reason trigger the "extra" crazy side of my mother.  Sadly, she's always used holidays and these giant days that must go a certain way and when they don't she becomes enraged.  She's ruined christmas, easter, even my OWN birthdays because of her behavior.  I know exactly what it's like to tell your mom "no mom I have plans on friday" and have her just keep pushing to come anyway.  I wonder what it would be like to have a mother who said "ok, no problem, cya saturday."  I mean I would fall off of a chair. 

They break into tears and get dramatic too all the time.  I liked how your mom said "I'll never ask about plans again."  Why must they always go to extremes?

Can I ask what your husband thinks of the behavior.  Have you spoken to him about your mom and her condition.  Sometimes it's hard for outsiders to understand.  I felt a lot of freedom in full disclosure to my partner.  Best of luck and may your easter go smoothly!

[maemo]

The "am I a good mom" thing is not a constant with my mother, though she used to do that more often than she does now; she more often makes statements, not questions. "I know there are things I could have done better, but I was a good mom to you in [this particular aspect]." Statements that could be fishing for affirmation, but also can be left unanswered (and implicitly agreed-to in that case.) I usually don't take the bait unless it's an aspect that I actually do agree about. There WERE several things that my mom did well with us.

There have been notable exceptions. Like the time she called me (I was a college senior) in hysterics, sobbing so hard I could barely understand her, driving home from a marriage counselor's office where she had been with my dad. "Your father said that you children were terrified of me when you were little. That's not true, is it? Why would he say something like that? Is it true?"   ... .I wish this incident had happened a mere three or four years later, when I had a better toolkit for handling that kind of attack. At the time, I was afraid she was going to drive off the road and kill herself, so I tried to calm her down while trying to also defend my dad, saying something like "Oh, you know how deeply kids feel things. Maybe it came from something I said when I was little and didn't want a spanking or something." - even though I knew it was true and was a little surprised that my dad had said anything that clearly to the counselor. My dad and I had had one single conversation, when I was about thirteen, when I told him I was afraid of what my mom would do the next day when he went to work (we had had a big blowup about something where my father refused to punish me over something my mom had thought I was guilty of.)

My dad, in general, was non-combative but not particularly enabling of my mom's disorderedness. He didn't go out of his way to pacify her, and tried mostly to deflect her rage off of us and then get out of her way himself when he was around. He never spoke ill of her to us, but he also never excused her behavior to us. For a long time, I held him guiltless regarding the chaos that haunted our home, because I saw his handling of it to be pretty honorable; giving her respect she didn't deserve, teaching us by example how to bear it all with patience, et cetera. Later on I had (still have) to deal with a lot of anger towards him for what he DIDN'T do. He didn't get her the psychological help she needed (he doesn't believe in therapists; all the marriage counselors they saw were her idea, not his.) He didn't go through the church (and we were members of a fairly healthy church; I still know many of the people we were close to there, and I believe they could have done some good) to help spread out the burden of getting to the bottom of her rages and manipulation while keeping us kids in emotional safety.

He didn't try to use me as an emotional fill-in for my mother, but he didn't stop her from using me as an emotional fill-in for HIM. And later, when all of us were grown and out of the house, he left her, stopped giving her any money toward the house payments on the house they legally co-own, and hasn't tried to divorce her because he doesn't have the money for the legal battle (she does not want a divorce and is convinced that God will restore her marriage and return her erring husband to her side.)

And just a day ago, I found out that my mom has a mass in her neck that her doctor thinks is probably her breast cancer returning after 10 years of being in the clear. She called to tell me this, and then started in on "this is worse than the first time, because now I am all alone."

Well, you know what? The reason you're all alone is because we had the kind of home that brings kids to want to move 800 miles away. And I'll be damned if I am going to cave again, like I did as a teenager, and be the emotional support to you that your husband and your friends should be. And if you no longer have a husband and friends, that may not entirely be your fault, but I promise you that you had a hand in it.

... .I won't hijack your thread with my ranting on this topic!

Setting up boundaries with phone calls was a GIGANTIC stress in my life for the first, oh, year or two I tried it. But I can tell you that it gets better as you get practice with it, and it is so very worth it! You can do it! I'm glad you have someone to help bear the load; is your husband a good support for you in all of this?

Hi Claudiaduffy,

Thanks for the response!

My mom switches up the "I was a good mom, wasn't I?" refrain, too. Sometimes she'll say, "I was a fun mom, right?" or "You know, I always say I did better than my mom, and you'll do better than me." Sometimes it's like she's fishing for compliments or reassurances, and other times it seems as if she knows something was wrong with her mothering, and wants to excuse it somehow. I try not to engage her at all when she starts to talk about her history as a mother.

Wow, that must have been stressful (and alarming) for you to have to deal with that surprise confrontation from her. I always find those kinds of confrontations to be really uncomfortable and distressing with my mom, because she truthfully doesn't want honesty. She has a script in her head she wants to play out, and then I have to be dishonest with myself, and feel like crap afterwards. Even when I am honest with my mom, though, she has excuses for *everything*. My brother once confronted her that she always called him stupid, and she wrote it off as, "Oh I was just joking. I didn't know it offended you." And then over the years, she'll bring it up randomly, saying how she really never knew it offended him. How could calling your son stupid over the course of years not impact him? Anything she can do to avoid accountability and responsibility - she does it. What about your Mom - do you find that when you are honest with her, that she denies things, makes excuses, etc.?

About my husband - yes, he is very supportive. However, I will say that he doesn't have the experience with her that I do, and I do see him fall into her "traps" sometimes when she is around. She's very good at covertly getting people to "her side". My mom can't handle everyone getting along - she always needs to stir some conflict, and she tends to try to do that with me and my husband. It's very frustrating. But he definitely sees the same problems I do, overall. The hard part is, she doesn't show her "crazy" side (the tantrums and rages) to him. He did catch a glimpse of it, though, once (don't laugh! haha) when I told her I didn't want to bring jelly beans with me in the car ride home. She threw a pout fest and ended up on the living room couch, separate from everyone in the kitchen. Yep, seriously, over jelly beans. And the icing on the cake is that my father went over and comforted her. 

I definitely am working on establishing my boundaries with her and sticking to them. I'm looking at this Easter weekend as an opportunity to practice. Maybe I'll "report back" after the holiday, hehe. 

[maemo]

Hi Maemo,

First off welcome to these forums.  I am new as well and I can tell you that posting and reading has been a great help in the process of dealing with my uBPD mother.  Finally understanding her condition was an amazing help to me and I hope it will be for you as well. 

I would also like to let you know you are not alone.  I guess for so long I thought I was the only person with a mother who had such bizarre behavior.  There is peace in knowing that people understand. 

I must also say wow!  Reading your post is like reading my moms behavior word for word!  They ALWAYS push.  I don't understand why, but it's like a compulsion they have.  My mom would do the same thing.  Let me use for example a short day trip we were taking to NYC.  I agreed to go with her Saturday morning.  The train from Philly left at around 9 am.  This is not some crazy time in the morning.  I planned on meeting her at the train station.  She then asked me NUMEROUS times if I could stay over the night before because the train is "so early."  No matter how many times I told her no, or explained to her that it wouldn't make sense/I couldn't due to logistics and my pets, she would get so upset.  At one point she SLAMMED down the phone after saying me "just forget it the trip is off!."  This I find is typical BPD behavior. 

It's interesting that you bring up easter, as I know that holidays for some reason trigger the "extra" crazy side of my mother.  Sadly, she's always used holidays and these giant days that must go a certain way and when they don't she becomes enraged.  She's ruined christmas, easter, even my OWN birthdays because of her behavior.  I know exactly what it's like to tell your mom "no mom I have plans on friday" and have her just keep pushing to come anyway.  I wonder what it would be like to have a mother who said "ok, no problem, cya saturday."  I mean I would fall off of a chair. 

They break into tears and get dramatic too all the time.  I liked how your mom said "I'll never ask about plans again."  Why must they always go to extremes?

Can I ask what your husband thinks of the behavior.  Have you spoken to him about your mom and her condition.  Sometimes it's hard for outsiders to understand.  I felt a lot of freedom in full disclosure to my partner.  Best of luck and may your easter go smoothly!

Hi Spruce927!

Thank you for your reply.

It's nice to read that you can relate too, though I am sorry that you also have to deal with a mom like mine! 

Wow, I can really relate to what you wrote about holidays being a trigger. My mother's big emotional to-do is always at Christmas. She always buys a ton of gifts for everyone (usually things she wants and hardly ever things the person might actually want - it's strange) and then subtly complains about the gifts people get her, and plays this victim role of - she literally says this - "I'm like Charlie Brown". Even when people get her nice things, she finds a way to complain and mope, and make the whole Christmas about how she got grand piles of gifts for everyone, but nobody got her what she wanted. It's just always a losing battle. I bought her 6 nice gifts last year and guess what she said, ":)id you buy me a stocking?" Like, what? Excuse me? Who operates like that? She makes Christmas a big stress fest. It's very annoying.

I can also relate to when you wrote about the NYC trip story. How you wrote your mom kept pushing for you to spend the night - that's also my mom! There's always that "extra". My brother used to always tell me, "oh just throw her a bone" but she doesn't want just one bone - she wants everything! Are you typically able to assert yourself with her? Did her reactionary rages and emotional outbursts to you holding to your boundaries become less over time or do they still remain?

And yes, they ALWAYS go to extremes. My goodness. My mom always jumps to crazy extremes. It's a way of avoiding the real problem, I feel. If we have an argument in a restaurant, she'll say, "I'll never go to a restaurant with you again!" when that has nothing to do with the actual problem, and just sidetracks the conversation. It's also extremely childish.

After asserting my boundaries to my mom about Easter, she hasn't tried to contact me all week. This is pretty typical of her - if I ever do assert my boundaries, she completely disengages, like, "You need to come console me". Basically, she doesn't want to interact with me unless she can manipulate me somehow. It makes me really think about how much I want to continue to fight to try and develop a healthy relationship with them. Sometimes going no contact seems really tempting, but that of course has it's considerations, too.

You also asked about my husband. Yes, he is supportive. He knows about her, and my past history with her. It's hard for him to reconcile because she is generally "on her best behavior" around him, but as time goes on, he is starting to see glimpses of the crazy behavior.

[claudiaduffy]

I try not to engage her at all when she starts to talk about her history as a mother.

That's probably a good idea!  I try not to, either... .though she is capable of going on at length if I don't interrupt.

My brother once confronted her that she always called him stupid, and she wrote it off as, "Oh I was just joking. I didn't know it offended you." And then over the years, she'll bring it up randomly, saying how she really never knew it offended him.

Yeah, isn't that weird? The bringing up, years later, over and over, stories of the rare times we confronted them? My mom does this too, especially if it's in order to contrast what I confronted her about with an opposite offense she saw someone else commit. (Like when I told her that she shouldn't force my 20-year-old brother to eat broccoli he didn't want, in the exact same language she'd have used to a 5 year old; years later she had friends over and the mom picked on the grown son to have some vegetables and he rolled his eyes but did as she wanted. This was obviously the RIGHT way to respond to a mom telling a grown child what to eat. ... .my mom apparently went on to tell this guy that she had two lovely daughters he ought to meet - this was before I met my husband. I never was so glad that I lived 800 miles away! )