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anxiety5
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What I have learned since I left about myself
«
on:
April 21, 2015, 12:07:51 AM »
I've been posting in here for about a year. In that time I have gone through a mind blowing 2 year relationship that was insane. Getting out. Detaching. And for the first time in my life, seeing a counselor so this NEVER happens again.
I used to be apprehensive about seeking professional help. After the last 3 months of going, I would now classify it as absolute and totally critical to healing. We all have blind spots. It's simply impossible to see it all yourself.
When I first went, the first few sessions were like emotional vomit. Me just telling everything that happened. It was incredibly helpful to be validated. To have someone understand what I went through. Friends and family are great but their eyes glaze over because unless you have been in one of these relationships, I firmly believe you'll never "get it"
Why did I stay in it? My question was, can co-dependency be triggered by cheating? I'm assertive in my regular life, why did I become co-dependent in my behaviors as if they were activated somehow?
Here is what I learned, and the crazy thing is, none of it is "learned" It's all MY PERSONAL STORY of my life. It's all there right under my nose. It just took some help to connect the dots.
My parents are still married. Happily. They love each other and I can honestly say I never witnessed them fight or be hateful to one another. My dad is a "giver" a "provider" and he is the best man I know. I love him to death. But what works for one, may not work for another. Let me explain.
My father worked his tail off for his family. He was always working, yet always at our games. If we needed something he was there. He was a provider. He gave to all of us the things he did not have. I learned by watching him throughout life that is the way you act when you love someone. You give, without asking or wanting anything in return. Noble, but when we really look at it, not so much. You see, I remember being frustrated because he would do something for me, and when I'd ask if I could take him out to lunch, he would still sneak paying the check and not let me. When I'd ask him what he wanted for Christmas he always said save your money don't get me anything. All despite giving us the things we couldn't dream of ever getting. In this process though, the selflessness he showed actually denied the people around him the feeling of giving back. It created guilt. We were always in a deficit with no way to repay it. I used to dream about getting him the perfect gift but even when I thought I had, his comment was always, thank you, but you shouldn't have done this. It's too much. Again, a noble response but it denied any sense of doing something for a person who did a lot for me. By seeing this my whole life, I have become a person who in romantic relationships, constantly looks for ways I can help, or provide or give at the same time, I have followed his same patterns of not wanting anything in return. When we say that some of us attract these narcissistic/BPD manipulators, it's because they give off the vibe of needing fixing/rescuing or help. This in turn activates that vibration we give off to give. And boom a match in hell is made.
Now this all may seem like my dad is co-dependent but he's not. My dad is tough as nails. If my mother ever belittled him, tried to run his life or cheated on him, he would pack a bag and be gone. A guy who has fought in a war, raised his family and had a successful career where he started at the bottom and retired on top has way too much pride to be besieged by anyone let alone his supposed romantic love (my mom) Likewise, my mom is a sweetheart and loves him totally and completely.
But, for me, despite following my dad's template, my story is a little different. Aside from being the last born and the social platform for that of always being wrong, being excluded by elder siblings and feeling like you are lost in the shuffle sometimes, I realized I have some self esteem issues.
What's remarkable is I was able to pinpoint where they originated. The experience was there I just never connected the dots. When were were kids, we moved to a new state. Our old home I had tons of friends and loved my life there. I was 12 when we moved. But the place we moved things were different. I guess I never realized I was a fat kid until the first day of school. For 2.5 years there I was bullied, made fun of, mocked, told I was ugly and fat, had stuff thrown at me and had a lot of issues because of all this. Now it's easy to say, stand up to your bullies but come on people. I was 12. I was stranded. All my support network was 1000 miles away. I had zero friends at this new school. On top of it, my own siblings go to line was to call me fat when they were mad at me. I was ashamed of myself. I felt worthless. I remember not telling my parents because I was so embarrassed to tell them of what my days were like. I isolated myself. I stopped playing sports, I didn't try to even talk to girls. I had no outlet, I was stuck in this new place with no escape. I remember feeling helpless. I couldn't fight all these people, my only option was to try and be nice to them. I tried very hard to win over my tormentors. Sometimes I was successful but it would just start up again. It was a really terrible time in my life. I hated school. I remember I won an academic award and faked sick because I was terrified to have my name called. I knew they would all mock me and my parents would be there so I just didn't go.
By the grace of god my father got transferred back to our former home less than 3 years later. By that time I was shedding all the baby fat and have been physically fit ever since then. That time stands as a typical phase of baby or youth fat that you outgrow. But the damage was done. I thrived when I went back home. Got right back in with my old friends and had a lot of fun in High School and College.
What I realize now is I never successfully resolved those times. I just happened to get magically rescued by us moving. So I myself never learned how to survive through all that, I was essentially rescued by us randomly moving.
Being a giver can work for someone like my dad because he has impenetrable self esteem, self worth and self respect. But me following his template while feeling like I'm some inadequate loser who nobody will like, who became scared of social settings and dating made my low self esteem and his template of being a giver a 1-2 perfect combination to be devoured by a narcissistic manipulative person.
I moved to a new state for work and once again left my friends behind. When I started dating my ex and she cheated on me, it activated that same feeling I had all those years ago in middle school. Her bullying was emotional much like theirs was. Torment. All aimed to deface me and make me feel worthless. It worked so very well. And again, here in a new state, I felt trapped. I followed old habits trying to win over my capture. I followed my dad's template and tried to do everything she wanted and give and give. Never wanting anything in return but not even able to get any respect or love back. My boundaries were horrible. Her cheating on me reinforced all those times years ago with people telling me I wasn't good enough. I was a loser, etc. Choosing another guy over me is a great way to activate all that stuff again by internalizing the way she made me feel vs. just focusing on her crappy behavior that caused it. I remember feeling at times in this relationship I wanted to move. This was my sub conscience telling me that hey last time you moved everything was better. It made me want to flee and run.
The therapist has helped me rectify and let go of all that nonsense that I (thought I already had let go of but didn't apparently) from my youth. She's helped me understand it's ok to quit things that are bad for you. It doesn't mean you are a failure. And I've identified core values of who Iam which by living those daily, breeds self respect, and self esteem. Being true to oneself as the saying goes.
Everything makes sense to me now. But only after 12 weeks of introspective work with a professional was I able to understand my gaping holes and blind spots. It has helped me get my life back and I'm happier right now than I've been in so very long.
I appreciate her. I'll never talk to her again but if I did, she probably would expect (and love) if I was a broken person. In fact I'd tell her thank you. All that nonsense of this relationship gave me the opportunity to learn things about myself that I NEVER would have known had I not gone through hell and back with her. I would have had no reason to dig up all that dirt but I did, and it was incredibly empowering to understand so much of my own self defeating behaviors. To understand the source of that little voice that makes me doubt myself. And to put all those situations from way back when into a healthier sight now years later, so that I can silence that inner self critic and be the person I was meant to be.
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Blimblam
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2892
Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
«
Reply #1 on:
April 21, 2015, 12:48:46 AM »
Sounds like you made a lot of big steps. Good ish mang.
I remember the narrative you had a few months back and it's definately a transformation.
One thing i realized is as we step out of one box we step onto a larger one and so on and so forth. Each box being the new current transitory narrative.
Keep going
Lean into your pain.
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Reforming
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 767
Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
«
Reply #2 on:
April 21, 2015, 01:58:27 AM »
Hi Anxiety
Thanks for sharing this - it really resonated with me. I went through some time tough times at school. I thought I'd put it behind me but I've realised over the last couple of years that I'd never really dealt with it.
It sounds like you've made great progress in a relatively short time. I'm kind of jealous to be honest, well done for doing the work.
Do you plan to continue therapy?
Reforming
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GrowThroughIt
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 121
Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
«
Reply #3 on:
April 21, 2015, 05:47:12 AM »
Hey Anxiety,
It was great reading your post. It gives us all hope!
Onwards and upwards!
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misuniadziubek
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Semi-long distance relationship living apart.
Posts: 383
Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
«
Reply #4 on:
April 21, 2015, 11:15:34 AM »
Excerpt
I appreciate her. I'll never talk to her again but if I did, she probably would expect (and love) if I was a broken person. In fact I'd tell her thank you. All that nonsense of this relationship gave me the opportunity to learn things about myself that I NEVER would have known had I not gone through hell and back with her. I would have had no reason to dig up all that dirt but I did, and it was incredibly empowering to understand so much of my own self defeating behaviors. To understand the source of that little voice that makes me doubt myself. And to put all those situations from way back when into a healthier sight now years later, so that I can silence that inner self critic and be the person I was meant to be.
This paragraph is beautiful. It's exactly why I don't think I'd ever be able to regret my relationship.
Regardless of where things go, I've gone through so much that I would never again emerge a broken person. I gave away so much into my relationship that I can't get back , but if I hadn't gone through so much I'd never realise these little things.
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anxiety5
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 361
Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
«
Reply #5 on:
April 21, 2015, 12:21:34 PM »
Quote from: Reforming on April 21, 2015, 01:58:27 AM
Hi Anxiety
Thanks for sharing this - it really resonated with me. I went through some time tough times at school. I thought I'd put it behind me but I've realised over the last couple of years that I'd never really dealt with it.
It sounds like you've made great progress in a relatively short time. I'm kind of jealous to be honest, well done for doing the work.
Do you plan to continue therapy?
Reforming
Thanks for the support. I appreciate it. Yeah, I do think I will continue to go but I got really fortunate in having someone to work with who isn't just in it for money. I really get a sense that she is an ally. She wants me to feel better and be ok. What's really interesting is she didn't really plant any of these conclusions or dots that were connected in my head. It was empowering to open up to someone and when she would get the most happy for me is when I connected those little dots myself. I will continue going for a while. I used to go weekly (for about 12 weeks) but I'm now going every 2 or 3. I would highly suggest giving it a shot.
I think the reason why I went head first into this whole sequence was because I realized my last 2 relationships had similar patterns. Similar patterns = I wasn't growing. I was repeating mistakes. The relationship before last I took very very hard. I realized I needed to get away from my ex but I also wanted to harness all that impending negative energy I knew would come as a result of the (necessary) split and put it into something that would be positive. I think sometimes people view this work as exhausting or cumbersome but if you think about it what are the alternatives? to have it sitting there seething under the surface for the next decade? Or to just focus on it head on now, and resolve it in a fraction of the time. It was necessary so I tried to be positive about it. Each session I said, today is my day to heal a little more vs. viewing it as a day to drudge up pain.
I've realized that we leave these relationships and we feel weak. We feel helpless and we feel hopeless. But the truth is, if you tolerated this relationship, if you dedicated yourself to fixing the impossible, and if you stayed loyal to someone who created havoc, anxiety and pain, WE are the strong ones. We are ALL incredibly strong. And that's the foundation from which to begin to feel better about yourself, it worked for me.
Our ex's appear indifferent and stoic. But the truth is, not a single one of them can face their demons head on with any sort of honesty or humility. No, they run from the truth. And what does it get them? Chaos, unhappiness, a total wake of destruction. It's cowardly to run. And that's exactly what they do. That alone was reason enough for me to do the polar opposite of what she would do. So I decided to be as brave as I could be, to face whatever I may learn about myself, to approach it head on, to understand it as much as I could, to learn more about myself and my blind spots, and to emerge from this healthier. In doing so, I will ensure the opposite of her patterns and I have a much greater chance to find peace, happiness, and a loving good healthy relationship.
Moreover, I refuse to let her ever get the satisfaction of thinking she broke me. She did not. I was good to her. I treated her the best I could given the wrath of terror she brought to my life. And if she gets any satisfaction for that hurt she caused me, I decided the best course of redemption was to take that low place she put me, and emerge from it as a person who is immune to her manipulation forever, and who will carry out the ultimate redemption through genuine indifference toward her. She took advantage of me to break me down, but what she will realize one day, is she was the catalyst that lead to building me up into someone who will find every aspect of peace and happiness in life that she seeks but won't ever be able to achieve. Each day I spent down and out was a day that made ego feel more powerful and another day that she got the best of me. I decided this was simply not an option.
So if we view the relationship from her perspective, I lost the battle but I will win the war.
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Reforming
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 767
Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
«
Reply #6 on:
April 21, 2015, 02:46:47 PM »
Quote from: anxiety5 on April 21, 2015, 12:21:34 PM
Quote from: Reforming on April 21, 2015, 01:58:27 AM
Hi Anxiety
Thanks for sharing this - it really resonated with me. I went through some time tough times at school. I thought I'd put it behind me but I've realised over the last couple of years that I'd never really dealt with it.
It sounds like you've made great progress in a relatively short time. I'm kind of jealous to be honest, well done for doing the work.
Do you plan to continue therapy?
Reforming
Thanks for the support. I appreciate it. Yeah, I do think I will continue to go but I got really fortunate in having someone to work with who isn't just in it for money. I really get a sense that she is an ally. She wants me to feel better and be ok. What's really interesting is she didn't really plant any of these conclusions or dots that were connected in my head. It was empowering to open up to someone and when she would get the most happy for me is when I connected those little dots myself. I will continue going for a while. I used to go weekly (for about 12 weeks) but I'm now going every 2 or 3. I would highly suggest giving it a shot.
I think the reason why I went head first into this whole sequence was because I realized my last 2 relationships had similar patterns. Similar patterns = I wasn't growing. I was repeating mistakes. The relationship before last I took very very hard. I realized I needed to get away from my ex but I also wanted to harness all that impending negative energy I knew would come as a result of the (necessary) split and put it into something that would be positive. I think sometimes people view this work as exhausting or cumbersome but if you think about it what are the alternatives? to have it sitting there seething under the surface for the next decade? Or to just focus on it head on now, and resolve it in a fraction of the time. It was necessary so I tried to be positive about it. Each session I said, today is my day to heal a little more vs. viewing it as a day to drudge up pain.
I've realized that we leave these relationships and we feel weak. We feel helpless and we feel hopeless. But the truth is, if you tolerated this relationship, if you dedicated yourself to fixing the impossible, and if you stayed loyal to someone who created havoc, anxiety and pain, WE are the strong ones. We are ALL incredibly strong. And that's the foundation from which to begin to feel better about yourself, it worked for me.
Our ex's appear indifferent and stoic. But the truth is, not a single one of them can face their demons head on with any sort of honesty or humility. No, they run from the truth. And what does it get them? Chaos, unhappiness, a total wake of destruction. It's cowardly to run. And that's exactly what they do. That alone was reason enough for me to do the polar opposite of what she would do. So I decided to be as brave as I could be, to face whatever I may learn about myself, to approach it head on, to understand it as much as I could, to learn more about myself and my blind spots, and to emerge from this healthier. In doing so, I will ensure the opposite of her patterns and I have a much greater chance to find peace, happiness, and a loving good healthy relationship.
Moreover, I refuse to let her ever get the satisfaction of thinking she broke me. She did not. I was good to her. I treated her the best I could given the wrath of terror she brought to my life. And if she gets any satisfaction for that hurt she caused me, I decided the best course of redemption was to take that low place she put me, and emerge from it as a person who is immune to her manipulation forever, and who will carry out the ultimate redemption through genuine indifference toward her. She took advantage of me to break me down, but what she will realize one day, is she was the catalyst that lead to building me up into someone who will find every aspect of peace and happiness in life that she seeks but won't ever be able to achieve. Each day I spent down and out was a day that made ego feel more powerful and another day that she got the best of me. I decided this was simply not an option.
So if we view the relationship from her perspective, I lost the battle but I will win the war.
It sounds like you've really used your relationship as a catalyst for positive change. Kudos to you.
I don't feel that my ex broke me, but I do recognise that staying so long in a relationship with disordered person can do a lot of damage. It takes time and effort to repair that
It's interesting and inspiring seeing different members find their way through debris to a better and healthier place. I read some of your earlier posts and though your relationship was much shorter than mine (well done) a lot the things the traits that you described in your ex really struck a chord.
On the surface mine is very high powered and successful. The sex at the beginning was frequent and passionate, but after a while it dried up to nothing.
I'd also agree that when it comes down to it - they are the greatest cowards. I'm not seeing a T at the moment but I was working with Schema T last year and I found it very helpful.
My therapy was very much focussed on me, but I did ask her why BPDs - she's treated a lot - can be so resistant to therapy.
She said "Shame has a lot to answer for, in that coming to therapy, working at it and being really willing look at ourselves and own our actions is quite courageous. It requires humility."
"But when someone is filled with shame it's such an unbearable feeling that they're compelled to avert their gaze from themselves, hide and cast their shame onto others. For those filled by shame, the thought that there is something wrong with them is overwhelming, it's almost impossible for them to separate their mistakes from themselves. They equate taking responsibility with if it's my fault, then it proves that I'm worthless and defective."
Good luck
Reforming
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Blimblam
Offline
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2892
Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
«
Reply #7 on:
April 21, 2015, 03:37:15 PM »
Anxiety,
With all due respect for a long time you were not doing the opposite of her you were doing the same thing as her. Which was splitting the ex partner black then seeking out a support group to validate and enable that behavior to preserve a narrative of yourself with a positive self image. A self image dependent on being contrasted with the idea of "her." The "her," in your mind and the real her are two very different things. Think fight club.
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anxiety5
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Gender:
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 361
Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
«
Reply #8 on:
April 21, 2015, 03:56:37 PM »
Quote from: Reforming on April 21, 2015, 02:46:47 PM
Quote from: anxiety5 on April 21, 2015, 12:21:34 PM
Quote from: Reforming on April 21, 2015, 01:58:27 AM
Hi Anxiety
Thanks for sharing this - it really resonated with me. I went through some time tough times at school. I thought I'd put it behind me but I've realised over the last couple of years that I'd never really dealt with it.
It sounds like you've made great progress in a relatively short time. I'm kind of jealous to be honest, well done for doing the work.
Do you plan to continue therapy?
Reforming
Thanks for the support. I appreciate it. Yeah, I do think I will continue to go but I got really fortunate in having someone to work with who isn't just in it for money. I really get a sense that she is an ally. She wants me to feel better and be ok. What's really interesting is she didn't really plant any of these conclusions or dots that were connected in my head. It was empowering to open up to someone and when she would get the most happy for me is when I connected those little dots myself. I will continue going for a while. I used to go weekly (for about 12 weeks) but I'm now going every 2 or 3. I would highly suggest giving it a shot.
I think the reason why I went head first into this whole sequence was because I realized my last 2 relationships had similar patterns. Similar patterns = I wasn't growing. I was repeating mistakes. The relationship before last I took very very hard. I realized I needed to get away from my ex but I also wanted to harness all that impending negative energy I knew would come as a result of the (necessary) split and put it into something that would be positive. I think sometimes people view this work as exhausting or cumbersome but if you think about it what are the alternatives? to have it sitting there seething under the surface for the next decade? Or to just focus on it head on now, and resolve it in a fraction of the time. It was necessary so I tried to be positive about it. Each session I said, today is my day to heal a little more vs. viewing it as a day to drudge up pain.
I've realized that we leave these relationships and we feel weak. We feel helpless and we feel hopeless. But the truth is, if you tolerated this relationship, if you dedicated yourself to fixing the impossible, and if you stayed loyal to someone who created havoc, anxiety and pain, WE are the strong ones. We are ALL incredibly strong. And that's the foundation from which to begin to feel better about yourself, it worked for me.
Our ex's appear indifferent and stoic. But the truth is, not a single one of them can face their demons head on with any sort of honesty or humility. No, they run from the truth. And what does it get them? Chaos, unhappiness, a total wake of destruction. It's cowardly to run. And that's exactly what they do. That alone was reason enough for me to do the polar opposite of what she would do. So I decided to be as brave as I could be, to face whatever I may learn about myself, to approach it head on, to understand it as much as I could, to learn more about myself and my blind spots, and to emerge from this healthier. In doing so, I will ensure the opposite of her patterns and I have a much greater chance to find peace, happiness, and a loving good healthy relationship.
Moreover, I refuse to let her ever get the satisfaction of thinking she broke me. She did not. I was good to her. I treated her the best I could given the wrath of terror she brought to my life. And if she gets any satisfaction for that hurt she caused me, I decided the best course of redemption was to take that low place she put me, and emerge from it as a person who is immune to her manipulation forever, and who will carry out the ultimate redemption through genuine indifference toward her. She took advantage of me to break me down, but what she will realize one day, is she was the catalyst that lead to building me up into someone who will find every aspect of peace and happiness in life that she seeks but won't ever be able to achieve. Each day I spent down and out was a day that made ego feel more powerful and another day that she got the best of me. I decided this was simply not an option.
So if we view the relationship from her perspective, I lost the battle but I will win the war.
It sounds like you've really used your relationship as a catalyst for positive change. Kudos to you.
I don't feel that my ex broke me, but I do recognise that staying so long in a relationship with disordered person can do a lot of damage. It takes time and effort to repair that
It's interesting and inspiring seeing different members find their way through debris to a better and healthier place. I read some of your earlier posts and though your relationship was much shorter than mine (well done) a lot the things the traits that you described in your ex really struck a chord.
On the surface mine is very high powered and successful. The sex at the beginning was frequent and passionate, but after a while it dried up to nothing.
I'd also agree that when it comes down to it - they are the greatest cowards. I'm not seeing a T at the moment but I was working with Schema T last year and I found it very helpful.
My therapy was very much focussed on me, but I did ask her why BPDs - she's treated a lot - can be so resistant to therapy.
She said "Shame has a lot to answer for, in that coming to therapy, working at it and being really willing look at ourselves and own our actions is quite courageous. It requires humility."
"But when someone is filled with shame it's such an unbearable feeling that they're compelled to avert their gaze from themselves, hide and cast their shame onto others. For those filled by shame, the thought that there is something wrong with them is overwhelming, it's almost impossible for them to separate their mistakes from themselves. They equate taking responsibility with if it's my fault, then it proves that I'm worthless and defective."
Good luck
Reforming
I think you are exactly right. I would guess every one of us has done something really bone headed that we regret immediately or soon after we did it. I know I have plenty of those moments during my life. And if I were to single out one of those moments, one that represents the person I really am the least, or that is just totally embarrasing, for a moment I think I can understand what their "shame" must feel like. That fear of being "outed" or someone knowing something about you from your past that is just totally humiliating, or embarrasing, etc. I can sort of realize why they run from that fear when I think about it in those terms. I think what differentiates us, is we aren't so egocentric in our defenses or so dysregulated by our emotions like they are. These two things allow us 2 characteristics that kind of separate us from them. Perspective and logic. They know that they have issues at their core. If they didn't think that, or truly know that then they wouldn't run from people who out them. I hate going to the dentist. When I mean hate, I mean despise. Ever since I was a kid and I had the nastiest old school jerk of a dentist who tormented us as kids with fear. I just hate it. But if my tooth starts to hurt, I know I'm damaged. And as much as I don't want to go, I understand that whatever pain I feel in the short term psychologically or physically by going to see him is going to be worse in the long run by avoiding it. I also realize that if I run from it and ignore that pain completely, I'll end up with an entire mouth or rotten teeth, and unavoidable pain that makes it impossible to function. So that realization, that bigger picture beyond my short term hatred of going, that logic of talking myself through something that I want to avoid like the plague makes me realize I have to just go get it done. I'm sorry for the analogy but I think what they really lack is that linear and logical thought process. That to me is what makes them impossible and it's also the saddest thing. They would literally choose to become rotten to their core emotionally, to face dozens of failed relationships, and to be in constant pain in later years from the wake of all their havoc, essentially a ruined life in the one chance we all have to experience life. They would choose that path of misery without question, rather than doing any work to really resolve it.
I've reached that place where I feel sorry for her. She may prance around like she got the best of me. She can post pictures of her and her new guy all over social media. She can smile larger than she ever has before. But it doesn't make me miss her. It doesn't make me resent her either. I look at her and I just see ruined potential. I see the fragmented soul of a person who could be such an incredible, dynamic, amazing human being. And ultimately I know that she will stay on this path of eternal destruction in search of something that doesn't exist, without even an ounce of humility to ever consider the possibility that the only common denominator in any of her painful relationships, is her. And that just makes me sad.
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jhkbuzz
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Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
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Reply #9 on:
April 21, 2015, 07:04:18 PM »
Quote from: anxiety5 on April 21, 2015, 03:56:37 PM
And ultimately I know that she will stay on this path of eternal destruction in search of something that doesn't exist, without even an ounce of humility to ever consider the possibility that the only common denominator in any of her painful relationships, is her. And that just makes me sad.
My ex was in therapy for the last year of our r/s. This didn't stop her from remaining in touch with her affair partner for the entire year - and lying about it. But that's a story for a different day.
She came home one day and told me the very thing you said in your post - that her therapist has said to her repeatedly. "YOU'RE the common denominator."
She still doesn't get that she's the problem.
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Blimblam
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Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
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Reply #10 on:
April 21, 2015, 09:02:57 PM »
Within their narrative it is completely logical.
Logic is a funny thing. Our logic is rooted in the norms of a particular narrative that we believe is just how things are. What if the whole basis of the narrative one thinks as just how things are is false? If someone came and told that person that even Showed them there is a good chance it won't even register at all, it's like describing colors to a blind person.
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anxiety5
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Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
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Reply #11 on:
April 21, 2015, 11:14:38 PM »
Quote from: jhkbuzz on April 21, 2015, 07:04:18 PM
Quote from: anxiety5 on April 21, 2015, 03:56:37 PM
And ultimately I know that she will stay on this path of eternal destruction in search of something that doesn't exist, without even an ounce of humility to ever consider the possibility that the only common denominator in any of her painful relationships, is her. And that just makes me sad.
See this is the thing that to this very day still baffles me. I wonder what's a bigger curse? Have absolutely zero ability to look inward analytically? Or knowing you have problems and just not caring enough to change? I guess the burden of awareness i probably a bigger sin. As they say, ignorance is bliss.
If we were alive in 1750 tomorrow, there would be no electricity, no air conditioning, no deodorant! no phone, etc. But the only way you would ever know that your situation could be better is if you were from the future and could see how
Quote from: Blimblam on April 21, 2015, 09:02:57 PM
Within their narrative it is completely logical.
Logic is a funny thing. Our logic is rooted in the norms of a particular narrative that we believe is just how things are. What if the whole basis of the narrative one thinks as just how things are is false? If someone came and told that person that even Showed them there is a good chance it won't even register at all, it's like describing colors to a blind person.
ory for a different day.
She came home one day and told me the very thing you said in your post - that her therapist has said to her repeatedly. "YOU'RE the common denominator."
She still doesn't get that she's the problem.
Underneath all the nonsense I know that my ex "got it" She knew that she was the problem. She had lucid moments from time to time. She was always quick to pick a fight, or to say I wasn't letting her talk, etc. But back when I gave a crap, I would play it out perfectly. I would be nice to her even if she was nasty. I would be patient with her when she shunned me. I wouldn't play games, when she did reach out I was responsive. And when we would have a talk I was calm and collected. In those moments where I went to ridiculous lengths of eliminating my own self respect, to not judge in anyway, I guess she felt safe. She said in one of those moments before after her "episode" "I'm always the problem in relationships. People think I'm special at first and I just end up being something not so great to them."
In those moments I don't care what anyone thinks, they were lucid truths. There was pain in her words. It wasn't manipulation. It was a painful neglected child who felt safe for a brief fleeting moment and was genuinely frustrated and upset about why she can't seem to not mess up a relationship.
There were other times when I would use calculated analogies of specific times where she was mad, or sad, or hurt about something to explain my position about whatever we were working through. In those moments I could see the dots connect in her. Those were the few times I was able to rhetorically get her to feel empathy. And it was almost sad. She tried very hard to get it. She said "Oh, so you feel right now, just like how I felt when such and such happened?" And she'd nod her head and her eyes would ponder back and forth as she let that sink in. And she would apologize. She would "get it"
Have you ever seen the movie "awakenings" with Robert Dinero and Robin Williams? If you have, bear with me for those that haven't. It's based on a group of patients who were elicited with this rare disease that puts them into a catatonic state. They experimented on these people using a drug at various levels and remarkably one by one they woke up from their hibernated state of existence to full and former levels that they were prior to getting sick. Eventually they would slowly drift back into a zombie like state of mind and never returned again to full awareness.
I almost feel like it was like that. These fleeting moments of honesty, or getting through. But within hours, and definitely within days, the rippled layers of her shattered inner parts would cover back over it with heartless precision. She would dissociate so much she wouldn't even remember having those conversations in a matter of days.
It's really sad. But the pathology is so layered, and so enmeshed within their soul that there is simply now way to ever break through.
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Blimblam
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Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
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Reply #12 on:
April 22, 2015, 01:26:57 AM »
It was in those lucid moments I made my deepest connections to my ex. She has no recollection of it at all.
You see though what tends to happen is people start to access those parts of themself but through the idea of someone else. Kind of like a child playing with action figures. So while we're talking about that other person were really talking about a part of them they have difficulty recognizing as themself.
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Blimblam
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Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
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Reply #13 on:
April 22, 2015, 01:56:36 AM »
So for example while it ex may have had some of those lucid moments when it began to cover up she would shift the discussion about someone or something else she could project how she felt about those parts of herself into. The thing is we might not have been saavy to that and took the convo at face value. But really the convo was still about those parts of themself but spoken of as if it was something else.
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Reforming
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Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
«
Reply #14 on:
April 22, 2015, 04:58:15 AM »
Quote from: anxiety5 on April 21, 2015, 11:14:38 PM
Quote from: jhkbuzz on April 21, 2015, 07:04:18 PM
Quote from: anxiety5 on April 21, 2015, 03:56:37 PM
And ultimately I know that she will stay on this path of eternal destruction in search of something that doesn't exist, without even an ounce of humility to ever consider the possibility that the only common denominator in any of her painful relationships, is her. And that just makes me sad.
See this is the thing that to this very day still baffles me. I wonder what's a bigger curse? Have absolutely zero ability to look inward analytically? Or knowing you have problems and just not caring enough to change? I guess the burden of awareness i probably a bigger sin. As they say, ignorance is bliss.
If we were alive in 1750 tomorrow, there would be no electricity, no air conditioning, no deodorant! no phone, etc. But the only way you would ever know that your situation could be better is if you were from the future and could see how
Quote from: Blimblam on April 21, 2015, 09:02:57 PM
Within their narrative it is completely logical.
Logic is a funny thing. Our logic is rooted in the norms of a particular narrative that we believe is just how things are. What if the whole basis of the narrative one thinks as just how things are is false? If someone came and told that person that even Showed them there is a good chance it won't even register at all, it's like describing colors to a blind person.
ory for a different day.
She came home one day and told me the very thing you said in your post - that her therapist has said to her repeatedly. "YOU'RE the common denominator."
She still doesn't get that she's the problem.
Underneath all the nonsense I know that my ex "got it" She knew that she was the problem. She had lucid moments from time to time. She was always quick to pick a fight, or to say I wasn't letting her talk, etc. But back when I gave a crap, I would play it out perfectly. I would be nice to her even if she was nasty. I would be patient with her when she shunned me. I wouldn't play games, when she did reach out I was responsive. And when we would have a talk I was calm and collected. In those moments where I went to ridiculous lengths of eliminating my own self respect, to not judge in anyway, I guess she felt safe. She said in one of those moments before after her "episode" "I'm always the problem in relationships. People think I'm special at first and I just end up being something not so great to them."
In those moments I don't care what anyone thinks, they were lucid truths. There was pain in her words. It wasn't manipulation. It was a painful neglected child who felt safe for a brief fleeting moment and was genuinely frustrated and upset about why she can't seem to not mess up a relationship.
There were other times when I would use calculated analogies of specific times where she was mad, or sad, or hurt about something to explain my position about whatever we were working through. In those moments I could see the dots connect in her. Those were the few times I was able to rhetorically get her to feel empathy. And it was almost sad. She tried very hard to get it. She said "Oh, so you feel right now, just like how I felt when such and such happened?" And she'd nod her head and her eyes would ponder back and forth as she let that sink in. And she would apologize. She would "get it"
Have you ever seen the movie "awakenings" with Robert Dinero and Robin Williams? If you have, bear with me for those that haven't. It's based on a group of patients who were elicited with this rare disease that puts them into a catatonic state. They experimented on these people using a drug at various levels and remarkably one by one they woke up from their hibernated state of existence to full and former levels that they were prior to getting sick. Eventually they would slowly drift back into a zombie like state of mind and never returned again to full awareness.
I almost feel like it was like that. These fleeting moments of honesty, or getting through. But within hours, and definitely within days, the rippled layers of her shattered inner parts would cover back over it with heartless precision. She would dissociate so much she wouldn't even remember having those conversations in a matter of days.
It's really sad. But the pathology is so layered, and so enmeshed within their soul that there is simply now way to ever break through.
I agree. My ex had moments of clarity too where she seemed very self aware, but the behaviour is so deeply ingrained that it's very hard to penetrate it for any sustained period of time.
I think it's particularly difficult as a romantic partner seeking because we are seeking to have our own needs met but BPDs are so triggered by intimacy that their romantic relationships are terrifying, painful and chaotic in a ways that are hard for us to fully understand.
It's a horrible disorder that hurts everything it touches and it's very sad, but ultimately we can't heal them and it's not our responsibility to try.
We can work out why we were drawn into the maelstrom of these relationships, work to heal our own wounds and try and make sure that we don't make the same mistake again.
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jhkbuzz
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Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
«
Reply #15 on:
April 22, 2015, 05:07:57 AM »
Quote from: anxiety5 on April 21, 2015, 11:14:38 PM
Quote from: jhkbuzz on April 21, 2015, 07:04:18 PM
Quote from: anxiety5 on April 21, 2015, 03:56:37 PM
And ultimately I know that she will stay on this path of eternal destruction in search of something that doesn't exist, without even an ounce of humility to ever consider the possibility that the only common denominator in any of her painful relationships, is her. And that just makes me sad.
See this is the thing that to this very day still baffles me. I wonder what's a bigger curse? Have absolutely zero ability to look inward analytically? Or knowing you have problems and just not caring enough to change? I guess the burden of awareness i probably a bigger sin. As they say, ignorance is bliss.
If we were alive in 1750 tomorrow, there would be no electricity, no air conditioning, no deodorant! no phone, etc. But the only way you would ever know that your situation could be better is if you were from the future and could see how
Quote from: Blimblam on April 21, 2015, 09:02:57 PM
Within their narrative it is completely logical.
Logic is a funny thing. Our logic is rooted in the norms of a particular narrative that we believe is just how things are. What if the whole basis of the narrative one thinks as just how things are is false? If someone came and told that person that even Showed them there is a good chance it won't even register at all, it's like describing colors to a blind person.
ory for a different day.
She came home one day and told me the very thing you said in your post - that her therapist has said to her repeatedly. "YOU'RE the common denominator."
She still doesn't get that she's the problem.
Underneath all the nonsense I know that my ex "got it" She knew that she was the problem. She had lucid moments from time to time. She was always quick to pick a fight, or to say I wasn't letting her talk, etc. But back when I gave a crap, I would play it out perfectly. I would be nice to her even if she was nasty. I would be patient with her when she shunned me. I wouldn't play games, when she did reach out I was responsive. And when we would have a talk I was calm and collected. In those moments where I went to ridiculous lengths of eliminating my own self respect, to not judge in anyway, I guess she felt safe. She said in one of those moments before after her "episode" "I'm always the problem in relationships. People think I'm special at first and I just end up being something not so great to them."
In those moments I don't care what anyone thinks, they were lucid truths. There was pain in her words. It wasn't manipulation. It was a painful neglected child who felt safe for a brief fleeting moment and was genuinely frustrated and upset about why she can't seem to not mess up a relationship.
There were other times when I would use calculated analogies of specific times where she was mad, or sad, or hurt about something to explain my position about whatever we were working through. In those moments I could see the dots connect in her. Those were the few times I was able to rhetorically get her to feel empathy. And it was almost sad. She tried very hard to get it. She said "Oh, so you feel right now, just like how I felt when such and such happened?" And she'd nod her head and her eyes would ponder back and forth as she let that sink in. And she would apologize. She would "get it"
Have you ever seen the movie "awakenings" with Robert Dinero and Robin Williams? If you have, bear with me for those that haven't. It's based on a group of patients who were elicited with this rare disease that puts them into a catatonic state. They experimented on these people using a drug at various levels and remarkably one by one they woke up from their hibernated state of existence to full and former levels that they were prior to getting sick. Eventually they would slowly drift back into a zombie like state of mind and never returned again to full awareness.
I almost feel like it was like that. These fleeting moments of honesty, or getting through. But within hours, and definitely within days, the rippled layers of her shattered inner parts would cover back over it with heartless precision. She would dissociate so much she wouldn't even remember having those conversations in a matter of days.
It's really sad. But the pathology is so layered, and so enmeshed within their soul that there is simply now way to ever break through.
I agree completely. Towards the end of our r/s my ex had her "moments" of lucidity as well. Even told me "I came into this r/s pretty ___ed up" But that's all they were - moments. Disconnected moments. Forgotten moments.
There's no way to build a healthy, adult r/s on isolated moments of lucidity.
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anxiety5
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Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
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Reply #16 on:
April 22, 2015, 04:44:50 PM »
Quote from: Blimblam on April 21, 2015, 03:37:15 PM
Anxiety,
With all due respect for a long time you were not doing the opposite of her you were doing the same thing as her. Which was splitting the ex partner black then seeking out a support group to validate and enable that behavior to preserve a narrative of yourself with a positive self image. A self image dependent on being contrasted with the idea of "her." The "her," in your mind and the real her are two very different things. Think fight club.
I think I see what you are saying, and perhaps from a generalized position that may be true. However, within the context of our relationship, each and every time there was a "blow out" even when she cheated on me, I made every possible attempt to communicate with her constructively, to articulate my feelings, and ask her about the way she felt or what she thought and I made every attempt to not only resolve conflict as it arose, but to work it out to an extent with a goal of trying to not have it happen again, to over compromises and to understand why she was upset so we could have those situations not happen anymore.
When someone leads you down a path, makes promises they don't keep, comprehends your confusion and hurt, realizes they are causing it, refuses to compromise, refuses reciprocity, says things and does things to purposely make me uneasy, anxious or hurt, all the while refusing to resolve any of it this drastically changes the whole truth behind what on the surface level appears as if we are both doing the same thing (splitting/painting black/differentiating)
I was in a relationship with a disordered emotionally manipulative and abusive person. She was in a relationship with herself. My identity was an obstacle to her happiness. She didn't even respect me as my own person on a human level, let alone relationship level.
So what you may try to connect as similar may appear so from an arbitrary detached perspective, but within the framework of the relationship, I did not split her as all bad, I stayed in too long and gave her too many opportunities to SHOW me she was disordered on virtually every personal level. I did not paint her black, I was obstructed from any conflict resolution, I was denied my own identity, I was not respected through her infidelity, and I was not appreciated for the ways I was able to meet the very needs she demanded that I meet. And any attempts to communicate this to her for the sake of a better, healthier relationship were shut down, deflected, minimized or denied. I did not paint her black, I gave her the opportunity and the brush to paint herself black.
And the support I sought was not to manipulate reality, it was to face the truth. Both about her, and me. I did not seek someone to distort the truth to somehow serve my deficits and prop them up. That is the World of delusion she lives in. I sought someone to tell me the truth so that I could understand it from a source that was in fact NOT manipulating me. And I did so, for the sole purpose of learning my own deficits that led me into this relationship and to stay as long as I did, not so I could blame her, but so I could identify my deficits, and to work on them to avoid it happenening again.
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anxiety5
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Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
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Reply #17 on:
April 22, 2015, 04:47:21 PM »
Quote from: Blimblam on April 22, 2015, 01:56:36 AM
So for example while it ex may have had some of those lucid moments when it began to cover up she would shift the discussion about someone or something else she could project how she felt about those parts of herself into. The thing is we might not have been saavy to that and took the convo at face value. But really the convo was still about those parts of themself but spoken of as if it was something else.
Wow. That's interesting stuff... .
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jhkbuzz
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Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
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Reply #18 on:
April 22, 2015, 06:03:59 PM »
Quote from: anxiety5 on April 22, 2015, 04:44:50 PM
Quote from: Blimblam on April 21, 2015, 03:37:15 PM
Anxiety,
With all due respect for a long time you were not doing the opposite of her you were doing the same thing as her. Which was splitting the ex partner black then seeking out a support group to validate and enable that behavior to preserve a narrative of yourself with a positive self image. A self image dependent on being contrasted with the idea of "her." The "her," in your mind and the real her are two very different things. Think fight club.
I think I see what you are saying, and perhaps from a generalized position that may be true. However, within the context of our relationship, each and every time there was a "blow out" even when she cheated on me, I made every possible attempt to communicate with her constructively, to articulate my feelings, and ask her about the way she felt or what she thought and I made every attempt to not only resolve conflict as it arose, but to work it out to an extent with a goal of trying to not have it happen again, to over compromises and to understand why she was upset so we could have those situations not happen anymore.
When someone leads you down a path, makes promises they don't keep, comprehends your confusion and hurt, realizes they are causing it, refuses to compromise, refuses reciprocity, says things and does things to purposely make me uneasy, anxious or hurt, all the while refusing to resolve any of it this drastically changes the whole truth behind what on the surface level appears as if we are both doing the same thing (splitting/painting black/differentiating)
I was in a relationship with a disordered emotionally manipulative and abusive person. She was in a relationship with herself. My identity was an obstacle to her happiness. She didn't even respect me as my own person on a human level, let alone relationship level.
So what you may try to connect as similar may appear so from an arbitrary detached perspective, but within the framework of the relationship, I did not split her as all bad, I stayed in too long and gave her too many opportunities to SHOW me she was disordered on virtually every personal level. I did not paint her black, I was obstructed from any conflict resolution, I was denied my own identity, I was not respected through her infidelity, and I was not appreciated for the ways I was able to meet the very needs she demanded that I meet. And any attempts to communicate this to her for the sake of a better, healthier relationship were shut down, deflected, minimized or denied. I did not paint her black, I gave her the opportunity and the brush to paint herself black.
And the support I sought was not to manipulate reality, it was to face the truth. Both about her, and me. I did not seek someone to distort the truth to somehow serve my deficits and prop them up. That is the World of delusion she lives in. I sought someone to tell me the truth so that I could understand it from a source that was in fact NOT manipulating me. And I did so, for the sole purpose of learning my own deficits that led me into this relationship and to stay as long as I did, not so I could blame her, but so I could identify my deficits, and to work on them to avoid it happening again.
I would have written that ^ if I was half as eloquent.
I've spent so much time thinking about how ___ed up I must have been to stay in the r/s... .but I need to start looking at the GOOD qualities in me that allowed me to stay and continue to try - my strength, my love for her, my patience. There are certainly things I need to examine within myself - but there are also qualities within me that I can be very proud of.
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anxiety5
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Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
«
Reply #19 on:
April 22, 2015, 09:03:27 PM »
Quote from: jhkbuzz on April 22, 2015, 06:03:59 PM
Quote from: anxiety5 on April 22, 2015, 04:44:50 PM
Quote from: Blimblam on April 21, 2015, 03:37:15 PM
Anxiety,
With all due respect for a long time you were not doing the opposite of her you were doing the same thing as her. Which was splitting the ex partner black then seeking out a support group to validate and enable that behavior to preserve a narrative of yourself with a positive self image. A self image dependent on being contrasted with the idea of "her." The "her," in your mind and the real her are two very different things. Think fight club.
I think I see what you are saying, and perhaps from a generalized position that may be true. However, within the context of our relationship, each and every time there was a "blow out" even when she cheated on me, I made every possible attempt to communicate with her constructively, to articulate my feelings, and ask her about the way she felt or what she thought and I made every attempt to not only resolve conflict as it arose, but to work it out to an extent with a goal of trying to not have it happen again, to over compromises and to understand why she was upset so we could have those situations not happen anymore.
When someone leads you down a path, makes promises they don't keep, comprehends your confusion and hurt, realizes they are causing it, refuses to compromise, refuses reciprocity, says things and does things to purposely make me uneasy, anxious or hurt, all the while refusing to resolve any of it this drastically changes the whole truth behind what on the surface level appears as if we are both doing the same thing (splitting/painting black/differentiating)
I was in a relationship with a disordered emotionally manipulative and abusive person. She was in a relationship with herself. My identity was an obstacle to her happiness. She didn't even respect me as my own person on a human level, let alone relationship level.
So what you may try to connect as similar may appear so from an arbitrary detached perspective, but within the framework of the relationship, I did not split her as all bad, I stayed in too long and gave her too many opportunities to SHOW me she was disordered on virtually every personal level. I did not paint her black, I was obstructed from any conflict resolution, I was denied my own identity, I was not respected through her infidelity, and I was not appreciated for the ways I was able to meet the very needs she demanded that I meet. And any attempts to communicate this to her for the sake of a better, healthier relationship were shut down, deflected, minimized or denied. I did not paint her black, I gave her the opportunity and the brush to paint herself black.
And the support I sought was not to manipulate reality, it was to face the truth. Both about her, and me. I did not seek someone to distort the truth to somehow serve my deficits and prop them up. That is the World of delusion she lives in. I sought someone to tell me the truth so that I could understand it from a source that was in fact NOT manipulating me. And I did so, for the sole purpose of learning my own deficits that led me into this relationship and to stay as long as I did, not so I could blame her, but so I could identify my deficits, and to work on them to avoid it happening again.
I would have written that ^ if I was half as eloquent.
I've spent so much time thinking about how ___ed up I must have been to stay in the r/s... .but I need to start looking at the GOOD qualities in me that allowed me to stay and continue to try - my strength, my love for her, my patience. There are certainly things I need to examine within myself - but there are also qualities within me that I can be very proud of.
Quote from: jhkbuzz on April 22, 2015, 06:03:59 PM
Quote from: anxiety5 on April 22, 2015, 04:44:50 PM
Quote from: Blimblam on April 21, 2015, 03:37:15 PM
Anxiety,
With all due respect for a long time you were not doing the opposite of her you were doing the same thing as her. Which was splitting the ex partner black then seeking out a support group to validate and enable that behavior to preserve a narrative of yourself with a positive self image. A self image dependent on being contrasted with the idea of "her." The "her," in your mind and the real her are two very different things. Think fight club.
I think I see what you are saying, and perhaps from a generalized position that may be true. However, within the context of our relationship, each and every time there was a "blow out" even when she cheated on me, I made every possible attempt to communicate with her constructively, to articulate my feelings, and ask her about the way she felt or what she thought and I made every attempt to not only resolve conflict as it arose, but to work it out to an extent with a goal of trying to not have it happen again, to over compromises and to understand why she was upset so we could have those situations not happen anymore.
When someone leads you down a path, makes promises they don't keep, comprehends your confusion and hurt, realizes they are causing it, refuses to compromise, refuses reciprocity, says things and does things to purposely make me uneasy, anxious or hurt, all the while refusing to resolve any of it this drastically changes the whole truth behind what on the surface level appears as if we are both doing the same thing (splitting/painting black/differentiating)
I was in a relationship with a disordered emotionally manipulative and abusive person. She was in a relationship with herself. My identity was an obstacle to her happiness. She didn't even respect me as my own person on a human level, let alone relationship level.
So what you may try to connect as similar may appear so from an arbitrary detached perspective, but within the framework of the relationship, I did not split her as all bad, I stayed in too long and gave her too many opportunities to SHOW me she was disordered on virtually every personal level. I did not paint her black, I was obstructed from any conflict resolution, I was denied my own identity, I was not respected through her infidelity, and I was not appreciated for the ways I was able to meet the very needs she demanded that I meet. And any attempts to communicate this to her for the sake of a better, healthier relationship were shut down, deflected, minimized or denied. I did not paint her black, I gave her the opportunity and the brush to paint herself black.
And the support I sought was not to manipulate reality, it was to face the truth. Both about her, and me. I did not seek someone to distort the truth to somehow serve my deficits and prop them up. That is the World of delusion she lives in. I sought someone to tell me the truth so that I could understand it from a source that was in fact NOT manipulating me. And I did so, for the sole purpose of learning my own deficits that led me into this relationship and to stay as long as I did, not so I could blame her, but so I could identify my deficits, and to work on them to avoid it happening again.
I would have written that ^ if I was half as eloquent.
I've spent so much time thinking about how ___ed up I must have been to stay in the r/s... .but I need to start looking at the GOOD qualities in me that allowed me to stay and continue to try - my strength, my love for her, my patience. There are certainly things I need to examine within myself - but there are also qualities within me that I can be very proud of.
This is a really messed up analogy but I'm watching a show, just read your reply and it made me connect the two. Let me preface this I in no way am trying to trivialize 9/11 or the memories of anyone who was affected by that horrible day.
That being said, you say here that you keep thinking about how messed up you must have been to stay in this relationship, etc. It's not your fault my friend. You need to let yourself off the hook. Do you think any of the people on those flights on 9/11 would have sat in their seats, patiently waiting for the pain to end, if they knew that their tormentors master plan was to destroy them? I'm not trying to compare our ex's to terrorists, but what I'm trying to point out is the power of fear and manipulation. Those people were terrified. They were told on 9/11 on those planes by their tormentors that if they quit resisting, and quit fighting everything was going to be ok. Meanwhile the true motives of the tormentors was to destroy them.
It is incredibly traumatic to have this person who made you feel whole (by love bombing manipulation) promise you the World, make you feel so amazing and then turn out to be the most cruel and undermining person you ever met, capable of cutting your soul in half without care. This creates instant trauma, and fear. Fear is debilitating and paralyzing.
The people on those flights that ended up hitting the towers were all successful, strong, powerful and many of them physicially fit people. They were more than capable of over powering their aggressors. But the sheer speed, the element of surprise attack and the fear through intimidation paralyzed them all from moving. They were helpless. They were at the mercy of their captors. And their captors manipulated them into believing if they just went along for the ride, that they would be ok.
The 180 these people pull on you. The shock and trauma, the confusion, the manipulation. Is it any wonder why we are stuck in our proverbial seats at the mercy of our tormentor in these relationships?
But you can't blame yourself. The facts are you wouldn't have been damaged, and those poor people on those flights would not have been killed not by somehow blaming them or somehow implying they should have known. Let's focus on the evil, the true source of all of it. The facts are we would not have been damaged, and those people would have just had a regular flight, if manipulative, evil, disturbed and sociopathic tormentors had not decided to target them. Period.
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Blimblam
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2892
Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
«
Reply #20 on:
April 23, 2015, 12:06:57 AM »
Quote from: anxiety5 on April 22, 2015, 04:47:21 PM
Quote from: Blimblam on April 22, 2015, 01:56:36 AM
So for example while it ex may have had some of those lucid moments when it began to cover up she would shift the discussion about someone or something else she could project how she felt about those parts of herself into. The thing is we might not have been saavy to that and took the convo at face value. But really the convo was still about those parts of themself but spoken of as if it was something else.
Wow. That's interesting stuff... .
Yeah even the conversation we are having right now is on multiple levels. I am speaking to you/myself in a triple entandre.
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Pingo
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Posts: 924
Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
«
Reply #21 on:
April 23, 2015, 10:37:10 PM »
Quote from: anxiety5 on April 22, 2015, 09:03:27 PM
This is a really messed up analogy but I'm watching a show, just read your reply and it made me connect the two. Let me preface this I in no way am trying to trivialize 9/11 or the memories of anyone who was affected by that horrible day.
That being said, you say here that you keep thinking about how messed up you must have been to stay in this relationship, etc. It's not your fault my friend. You need to let yourself off the hook. Do you think any of the people on those flights on 9/11 would have sat in their seats, patiently waiting for the pain to end, if they knew that their tormentors master plan was to destroy them? I'm not trying to compare our ex's to terrorists, but what I'm trying to point out is the power of fear and manipulation. Those people were terrified. They were told on 9/11 on those planes by their tormentors that if they quit resisting, and quit fighting everything was going to be ok. Meanwhile the true motives of the tormentors was to destroy them.
It is incredibly traumatic to have this person who made you feel whole (by love bombing manipulation) promise you the World, make you feel so amazing and then turn out to be the most cruel and undermining person you ever met, capable of cutting your soul in half without care. This creates instant trauma, and fear. Fear is debilitating and paralyzing.
The people on those flights that ended up hitting the towers were all successful, strong, powerful and many of them physicially fit people. They were more than capable of over powering their aggressors. But the sheer speed, the element of surprise attack and the fear through intimidation paralyzed them all from moving. They were helpless. They were at the mercy of their captors. And their captors manipulated them into believing if they just went along for the ride, that they would be ok.
The 180 these people pull on you. The shock and trauma, the confusion, the manipulation. Is it any wonder why we are stuck in our proverbial seats at the mercy of our tormentor in these relationships?
But you can't blame yourself. The facts are you wouldn't have been damaged, and those poor people on those flights would not have been killed not by somehow blaming them or somehow implying they should have known. Let's focus on the evil, the true source of all of it. The facts are we would not have been damaged, and those people would have just had a regular flight, if manipulative, evil, disturbed and sociopathic tormentors had not decided to target them. Period.
Whoa that's some powerful stuff Anxiety5! I feel like many of us people on this forum are quick to try to pin our damage from these r/ss on our own failings. Good to self-reflect so we don't end up in a similar situation again but we are only human after all and these people we were involved with challenged us in ways we weren't prepared for. For me personally, I think I was brainwashed and manipulated and the fear was very powerful. I take responsibility for rushing into the r/s, not listening to my own gut and trying too hard to please him. I take responsibility for my future and my own healing. I also now recognise that I was in an extremely difficult and painful situation and I was so ill-prepared to deal with it. I did the best I could and got out even when there was a huge part of me that said don't go. I felt like my life depended on leaving. I was likely right. Enough beating ourselves up about our mistakes. I loved what jhkbuzz said:
"... .but I need to start looking at the GOOD qualities in me that allowed me to stay and continue to try - my strength, my love for her, my patience. There are certainly things I need to examine within myself - but there are also qualities within me that I can be very proud of."
This is empowering!
I also loved your analogy of going to the dentist Anxiety5, was very helpful! Love your posts!
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anxiety5
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Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
«
Reply #22 on:
April 23, 2015, 11:55:57 PM »
Quote from: Pingo on April 23, 2015, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: anxiety5 on April 22, 2015, 09:03:27 PM
This is a really messed up analogy but I'm watching a show, just read your reply and it made me connect the two. Let me preface this I in no way am trying to trivialize 9/11 or the memories of anyone who was affected by that horrible day.
That being said, you say here that you keep thinking about how messed up you must have been to stay in this relationship, etc. It's not your fault my friend. You need to let yourself off the hook. Do you think any of the people on those flights on 9/11 would have sat in their seats, patiently waiting for the pain to end, if they knew that their tormentors master plan was to destroy them? I'm not trying to compare our ex's to terrorists, but what I'm trying to point out is the power of fear and manipulation. Those people were terrified. They were told on 9/11 on those planes by their tormentors that if they quit resisting, and quit fighting everything was going to be ok. Meanwhile the true motives of the tormentors was to destroy them.
It is incredibly traumatic to have this person who made you feel whole (by love bombing manipulation) promise you the World, make you feel so amazing and then turn out to be the most cruel and undermining person you ever met, capable of cutting your soul in half without care. This creates instant trauma, and fear. Fear is debilitating and paralyzing.
The people on those flights that ended up hitting the towers were all successful, strong, powerful and many of them physicially fit people. They were more than capable of over powering their aggressors. But the sheer speed, the element of surprise attack and the fear through intimidation paralyzed them all from moving. They were helpless. They were at the mercy of their captors. And their captors manipulated them into believing if they just went along for the ride, that they would be ok.
The 180 these people pull on you. The shock and trauma, the confusion, the manipulation. Is it any wonder why we are stuck in our proverbial seats at the mercy of our tormentor in these relationships?
But you can't blame yourself. The facts are you wouldn't have been damaged, and those poor people on those flights would not have been killed not by somehow blaming them or somehow implying they should have known. Let's focus on the evil, the true source of all of it. The facts are we would not have been damaged, and those people would have just had a regular flight, if manipulative, evil, disturbed and sociopathic tormentors had not decided to target them. Period.
Whoa that's some powerful stuff Anxiety5! I feel like many of us people on this forum are quick to try to pin our damage from these r/ss on our own failings. Good to self-reflect so we don't end up in a similar situation again but we are only human after all and these people we were involved with challenged us in ways we weren't prepared for. For me personally, I think I was brainwashed and manipulated and the fear was very powerful. I take responsibility for rushing into the r/s, not listening to my own gut and trying too hard to please him. I take responsibility for my future and my own healing. I also now recognise that I was in an extremely difficult and painful situation and I was so ill-prepared to deal with it. I did the best I could and got out even when there was a huge part of me that said don't go. I felt like my life depended on leaving. I was likely right. Enough beating ourselves up about our mistakes. I loved what jhkbuzz said:
"... .but I need to start looking at the GOOD qualities in me that allowed me to stay and continue to try - my strength, my love for her, my patience. There are certainly things I need to examine within myself - but there are also qualities within me that I can be very proud of."
This is empowering!
I also loved your analogy of going to the dentist Anxiety5, was very helpful! Love your posts!
Thank you for your reply. I realize that when we do nothing but blame we allow ourselves to become perpetual victims which by definition means we are not empowered and are helpless. For these very true and real reasons, it is incredibly important to take note of what occurred in the relationship. What you missed, what you ignored, what you could have or should have done differently as far as paying attention to actions not words, etc. And then the inevitable conclusion that this was all possible because of learned family of origin behaviors, lack of self esteem, unclear identity or values that can be clearly defined, and no strong boundaries. All important areas to reflect, identify and change within us.
But to those among us who are broken and recovering from their first experience in such a relationship. I have a hard time blaming them for anything. Now don't get me wrong, it's just as important for them to do the work mentioned above, but think about something. When we say "red flags missed" or "had a funny gut feeling" or "I went back for more again and again" This does not make a person at fault. There isn't an equal share of blame. And they may not necessarily have even been an enabler.
This person, who has just come out from this relationship for the first time. head swimming, feeling totally alone, confused, not even sure what to do next. The last thing I would tell someone like this is they are partially responsible. This is someone's son, grandson, cousin, friend, brother, etc. I don't blame this type of victim. They had their innocence stolen from them. Sure they may have had their deficits of self esteem. But this person may have dreamed of having someone love them for who they are, and to one day come out of their shell. Maybe they were shy as kids, bullied, or teased. Whatever the case, this type of victim is in a sense better than any one of us because despite their own hardships they never lost hope of the good in the World. They still trusted love. They trusted people's words. They weren't asking to be hurt by coming back, they were hoping to be loved. It's easy for us to see that they made tactical or errors which appear from our hardened, damaged and mildly cynical perspective to be naive. But blaming someone who went through one of these relationships or in my own personal opinion even suggesting they had a role, is almost siding with their tormentor who would gleefully tell us of all the delusional ways they were to blame.
Again, if we must point out that the victim does have a part, and in doing so that's what it takes for this person to understand they now need to invest in themselves like never before, than maybe that is in fact the right classification to make. But on a personal level, I just feel so freaking terrible for someone who is going through one of these relationships and was totally blind sided. And in that sympathy I have for them, I just feel compelled to always remind them that their sincerity, their blind optimism, their hope and their trust may not be "Street smart" in a chaotic World, but in the same breath their innocence and hope for finding love is admirable and must be preserved. Work must be done, but the ultimate victor is the one who can better themselves without leaving the relationship feeling that on top of everything they are fools who got took. So while it's admirable for you to "take responsibility" for this or that, just remember to go easy on yourself
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Deeno02
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Posts: 1526
Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
«
Reply #23 on:
April 24, 2015, 10:01:34 AM »
Quote from: anxiety5 on April 23, 2015, 11:55:57 PM
Quote from: Pingo on April 23, 2015, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: anxiety5 on April 22, 2015, 09:03:27 PM
This is a really messed up analogy but I'm watching a show, just read your reply and it made me connect the two. Let me preface this I in no way am trying to trivialize 9/11 or the memories of anyone who was affected by that horrible day.
That being said, you say here that you keep thinking about how messed up you must have been to stay in this relationship, etc. It's not your fault my friend. You need to let yourself off the hook. Do you think any of the people on those flights on 9/11 would have sat in their seats, patiently waiting for the pain to end, if they knew that their tormentors master plan was to destroy them? I'm not trying to compare our ex's to terrorists, but what I'm trying to point out is the power of fear and manipulation. Those people were terrified. They were told on 9/11 on those planes by their tormentors that if they quit resisting, and quit fighting everything was going to be ok. Meanwhile the true motives of the tormentors was to destroy them.
It is incredibly traumatic to have this person who made you feel whole (by love bombing manipulation) promise you the World, make you feel so amazing and then turn out to be the most cruel and undermining person you ever met, capable of cutting your soul in half without care. This creates instant trauma, and fear. Fear is debilitating and paralyzing.
The people on those flights that ended up hitting the towers were all successful, strong, powerful and many of them physicially fit people. They were more than capable of over powering their aggressors. But the sheer speed, the element of surprise attack and the fear through intimidation paralyzed them all from moving. They were helpless. They were at the mercy of their captors. And their captors manipulated them into believing if they just went along for the ride, that they would be ok.
The 180 these people pull on you. The shock and trauma, the confusion, the manipulation. Is it any wonder why we are stuck in our proverbial seats at the mercy of our tormentor in these relationships?
But you can't blame yourself. The facts are you wouldn't have been damaged, and those poor people on those flights would not have been killed not by somehow blaming them or somehow implying they should have known. Let's focus on the evil, the true source of all of it. The facts are we would not have been damaged, and those people would have just had a regular flight, if manipulative, evil, disturbed and sociopathic tormentors had not decided to target them. Period.
Whoa that's some powerful stuff Anxiety5! I feel like many of us people on this forum are quick to try to pin our damage from these r/ss on our own failings. Good to self-reflect so we don't end up in a similar situation again but we are only human after all and these people we were involved with challenged us in ways we weren't prepared for. For me personally, I think I was brainwashed and manipulated and the fear was very powerful. I take responsibility for rushing into the r/s, not listening to my own gut and trying too hard to please him. I take responsibility for my future and my own healing. I also now recognise that I was in an extremely difficult and painful situation and I was so ill-prepared to deal with it. I did the best I could and got out even when there was a huge part of me that said don't go. I felt like my life depended on leaving. I was likely right. Enough beating ourselves up about our mistakes. I loved what jhkbuzz said:
"... .but I need to start looking at the GOOD qualities in me that allowed me to stay and continue to try - my strength, my love for her, my patience. There are certainly things I need to examine within myself - but there are also qualities within me that I can be very proud of."
This is empowering!
I also loved your analogy of going to the dentist Anxiety5, was very helpful! Love your posts!
Thank you for your reply. I realize that when we do nothing but blame we allow ourselves to become perpetual victims which by definition means we are not empowered and are helpless. For these very true and real reasons, it is incredibly important to take note of what occurred in the relationship. What you missed, what you ignored, what you could have or should have done differently as far as paying attention to actions not words, etc. And then the inevitable conclusion that this was all possible because of learned family of origin behaviors, lack of self esteem, unclear identity or values that can be clearly defined, and no strong boundaries. All important areas to reflect, identify and change within us.
But to those among us who are broken and recovering from their first experience in such a relationship. I have a hard time blaming them for anything. Now don't get me wrong, it's just as important for them to do the work mentioned above, but think about something. When we say "red flags missed" or "had a funny gut feeling" or "I went back for more again and again" This does not make a person at fault. There isn't an equal share of blame. And they may not necessarily have even been an enabler.
This person, who has just come out from this relationship for the first time. head swimming, feeling totally alone, confused, not even sure what to do next. The last thing I would tell someone like this is they are partially responsible. This is someone's son, grandson, cousin, friend, brother, etc. I don't blame this type of victim. They had their innocence stolen from them. Sure they may have had their deficits of self esteem. But this person may have dreamed of having someone love them for who they are, and to one day come out of their shell. Maybe they were shy as kids, bullied, or teased. Whatever the case, this type of victim is in a sense better than any one of us because despite their own hardships they never lost hope of the good in the World. They still trusted love. They trusted people's words. They weren't asking to be hurt by coming back, they were hoping to be loved. It's easy for us to see that they made tactical or errors which appear from our hardened, damaged and mildly cynical perspective to be naive. But blaming someone who went through one of these relationships or in my own personal opinion even suggesting they had a role, is almost siding with their tormentor who would gleefully tell us of all the delusional ways they were to blame.
Again, if we must point out that the victim does have a part, and in doing so that's what it takes for this person to understand they now need to invest in themselves like never before, than maybe that is in fact the right classification to make. But on a personal level, I just feel so freaking terrible for someone who is going through one of these relationships and was totally blind sided. And in that sympathy I have for them, I just feel compelled to always remind them that their sincerity, their blind optimism, their hope and their trust may not be "Street smart" in a chaotic World, but in the same breath their innocence and hope for finding love is admirable and must be preserved. Work must be done, but the ultimate victor is the one who can better themselves without leaving the relationship feeling that on top of everything they are fools who got took. So while it's admirable for you to "take responsibility" for this or that, just remember to go easy on yourself
Thanks both of you. Im 8 months out and while Im getting better, the guilt, shame and doubts still rear their ugly head. I never gave up on being loved or in love. Even after my wife of 18 years walked out on me and our kids. I thought I had found a second chance with my exgf, and a great chance on being happy with her and her kids. I was wrong. Almost deadly wrong. Im destroyed. Im ruined. Im cynical. Im sad. But thats ok. I spent 26 years in the military so Im no spring chicken, guess thats why its a bit hard for me to get through this. One thing in boot camp that they do is to destroy you. They make sure that your in sync with the military and that individualism is pushed out. Then they rebuild you from the ground up. Im in that process right now. Rebuilding, because I sure as hell cant get any lower than I am. The thoughts of should of, could of, would of play out. More so since I have to see her 2-3 times a week. But I know that this wasnt a good love affair and it never would be. The wheels would have fallen off eventually. She got what she needed, a boost to her id and her ego. Confidence restored, on to someone better. Whatever... .good luck. Not my problem anymore.
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anxiety5
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 361
Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
«
Reply #24 on:
April 24, 2015, 06:07:22 PM »
Quote from: Deeno02 on April 24, 2015, 10:01:34 AM
Quote from: anxiety5 on April 23, 2015, 11:55:57 PM
Quote from: Pingo on April 23, 2015, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: anxiety5 on April 22, 2015, 09:03:27 PM
This is a really messed up analogy but I'm watching a show, just read your reply and it made me connect the two. Let me preface this I in no way am trying to trivialize 9/11 or the memories of anyone who was affected by that horrible day.
That being said, you say here that you keep thinking about how messed up you must have been to stay in this relationship, etc. It's not your fault my friend. You need to let yourself off the hook. Do you think any of the people on those flights on 9/11 would have sat in their seats, patiently waiting for the pain to end, if they knew that their tormentors master plan was to destroy them? I'm not trying to compare our ex's to terrorists, but what I'm trying to point out is the power of fear and manipulation. Those people were terrified. They were told on 9/11 on those planes by their tormentors that if they quit resisting, and quit fighting everything was going to be ok. Meanwhile the true motives of the tormentors was to destroy them.
It is incredibly traumatic to have this person who made you feel whole (by love bombing manipulation) promise you the World, make you feel so amazing and then turn out to be the most cruel and undermining person you ever met, capable of cutting your soul in half without care. This creates instant trauma, and fear. Fear is debilitating and paralyzing.
The people on those flights that ended up hitting the towers were all successful, strong, powerful and many of them physicially fit people. They were more than capable of over powering their aggressors. But the sheer speed, the element of surprise attack and the fear through intimidation paralyzed them all from moving. They were helpless. They were at the mercy of their captors. And their captors manipulated them into believing if they just went along for the ride, that they would be ok.
The 180 these people pull on you. The shock and trauma, the confusion, the manipulation. Is it any wonder why we are stuck in our proverbial seats at the mercy of our tormentor in these relationships?
But you can't blame yourself. The facts are you wouldn't have been damaged, and those poor people on those flights would not have been killed not by somehow blaming them or somehow implying they should have known. Let's focus on the evil, the true source of all of it. The facts are we would not have been damaged, and those people would have just had a regular flight, if manipulative, evil, disturbed and sociopathic tormentors had not decided to target them. Period.
Whoa that's some powerful stuff Anxiety5! I feel like many of us people on this forum are quick to try to pin our damage from these r/ss on our own failings. Good to self-reflect so we don't end up in a similar situation again but we are only human after all and these people we were involved with challenged us in ways we weren't prepared for. For me personally, I think I was brainwashed and manipulated and the fear was very powerful. I take responsibility for rushing into the r/s, not listening to my own gut and trying too hard to please him. I take responsibility for my future and my own healing. I also now recognise that I was in an extremely difficult and painful situation and I was so ill-prepared to deal with it. I did the best I could and got out even when there was a huge part of me that said don't go. I felt like my life depended on leaving. I was likely right. Enough beating ourselves up about our mistakes. I loved what jhkbuzz said:
"... .but I need to start looking at the GOOD qualities in me that allowed me to stay and continue to try - my strength, my love for her, my patience. There are certainly things I need to examine within myself - but there are also qualities within me that I can be very proud of."
This is empowering!
I also loved your analogy of going to the dentist Anxiety5, was very helpful! Love your posts!
Thank you for your reply. I realize that when we do nothing but blame we allow ourselves to become perpetual victims which by definition means we are not empowered and are helpless. For these very true and real reasons, it is incredibly important to take note of what occurred in the relationship. What you missed, what you ignored, what you could have or should have done differently as far as paying attention to actions not words, etc. And then the inevitable conclusion that this was all possible because of learned family of origin behaviors, lack of self esteem, unclear identity or values that can be clearly defined, and no strong boundaries. All important areas to reflect, identify and change within us.
But to those among us who are broken and recovering from their first experience in such a relationship. I have a hard time blaming them for anything. Now don't get me wrong, it's just as important for them to do the work mentioned above, but think about something. When we say "red flags missed" or "had a funny gut feeling" or "I went back for more again and again" This does not make a person at fault. There isn't an equal share of blame. And they may not necessarily have even been an enabler.
This person, who has just come out from this relationship for the first time. head swimming, feeling totally alone, confused, not even sure what to do next. The last thing I would tell someone like this is they are partially responsible. This is someone's son, grandson, cousin, friend, brother, etc. I don't blame this type of victim. They had their innocence stolen from them. Sure they may have had their deficits of self esteem. But this person may have dreamed of having someone love them for who they are, and to one day come out of their shell. Maybe they were shy as kids, bullied, or teased. Whatever the case, this type of victim is in a sense better than any one of us because despite their own hardships they never lost hope of the good in the World. They still trusted love. They trusted people's words. They weren't asking to be hurt by coming back, they were hoping to be loved. It's easy for us to see that they made tactical or errors which appear from our hardened, damaged and mildly cynical perspective to be naive. But blaming someone who went through one of these relationships or in my own personal opinion even suggesting they had a role, is almost siding with their tormentor who would gleefully tell us of all the delusional ways they were to blame.
Again, if we must point out that the victim does have a part, and in doing so that's what it takes for this person to understand they now need to invest in themselves like never before, than maybe that is in fact the right classification to make. But on a personal level, I just feel so freaking terrible for someone who is going through one of these relationships and was totally blind sided. And in that sympathy I have for them, I just feel compelled to always remind them that their sincerity, their blind optimism, their hope and their trust may not be "Street smart" in a chaotic World, but in the same breath their innocence and hope for finding love is admirable and must be preserved. Work must be done, but the ultimate victor is the one who can better themselves without leaving the relationship feeling that on top of everything they are fools who got took. So while it's admirable for you to "take responsibility" for this or that, just remember to go easy on yourself
Thanks both of you. Im 8 months out and while Im getting better, the guilt, shame and doubts still rear their ugly head. I never gave up on being loved or in love. Even after my wife of 18 years walked out on me and our kids. I thought I had found a second chance with my exgf, and a great chance on being happy with her and her kids. I was wrong. Almost deadly wrong. Im destroyed. Im ruined. Im cynical. Im sad. But thats ok. I spent 26 years in the military so Im no spring chicken, guess thats why its a bit hard for me to get through this. One thing in boot camp that they do is to destroy you. They make sure that your in sync with the military and that individualism is pushed out. Then they rebuild you from the ground up. Im in that process right now. Rebuilding, because I sure as hell cant get any lower than I am. The thoughts of should of, could of, would of play out. More so since I have to see her 2-3 times a week. But I know that this wasnt a good love affair and it never would be. The wheels would have fallen off eventually. She got what she needed, a boost to her id and her ego. Confidence restored, on to someone better. Whatever... .good luck. Not my problem anymore.
I can sense the inner strength you have despite saying you are in a bad place. Being a military guy, I'm sure you are very well aware that you can lose a dozen battles, but that doesn't mean you lose the war. We didn't win a battle in WW2 until when? late 1942? Redemption is a powerful thing.
I find peace in the often heard, under appreciated, simple yet 100% true saying:
"All is well, that ends well"
Keep fighting. Don't lose hope and no matter how old you are, or how much of your life you review in your mind and feel all these emotions festering, there is always the rest of today. There is always tomorrow. All you need to do is find it once, and no matter how late in life we find it, it will make it all worth the journey. Don't lose the faith my brother!
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Blimblam
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2892
Re: What I have learned since I left about myself
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Reply #25 on:
April 24, 2015, 09:39:29 PM »
Woody (the hat man): you are a toy! You're not the real [anxiety5] your an-- aw, you're an action figure! You are a child's plaything!
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