Did my honeymoon lover really exist?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I am 2 weeks out from final BU. Like some other people whose posts I have read, I feel very upset and troubled by the disappearance of the person I was in love with. The one who said she was in love with me, that she was mine forever, that she wanted to marry me.

Some people on this site (sorry, I don't have the references right now) have suggested that we regard the honeymoon phase of the relationship with our former BPD partners as consisting of courtship behavior. Courtship implies to me a person trying to impress the potential partner by putting her best foot forward. Courtship behavior might also consist of conscious manipulation in the form of intentional dishonesty and false presentations of self. In any case, I think that this view leads to the conclusion that the words spoken and behavior shown during courtship are part of a performance to varying degrees, not an authentic encounter between people who are perceiving each other objectively. The strongest form of this argument leads to the suggestion that the honeymoon phase of the relationship is not a real relationship between two people, and that we should not figure in the experiences from the honeymoon phase when we are trying to make sense out of the relationship.

I have tried to look at my relationship with my BPD ex from the above perspective, and I do think it fits. I can understand why some people would conclude that the person they fell in love with does not exist. That may be true in my case as well.

There is something more than this and stranger than this in my experience, however. My BPD ex had more personalities than just the Jekyll and Hyde that are usually mentioned. The personalities aren't fully worked out, and they don't dress differently or talk with different accents or anything like that, so I am pretty sure that my ex did not have Dissociative Identity Disorder, but I don't know how one would tell the difference. She was not diagnosed with DID.

The person I fell in love with was "out" most of the first year of our relationship, but only sporadically after that. That person was older, more dependable, aspiring to be a steadfast spouse who contributed to family life. The personalities who were around later were younger for the most part, some very young, and one who felt like a nasty teenager at the end. After the person I fell in love with disappeared and we went through our first withdrawal and reconciliation cycle, my ex told me that it was also her experience that part of herself was no longer out. She conveyed a high degree of confidence that she knew which part of herself I had fallen in love with, as this concurred with her own sense of who had been out in the recent past.

I always had the feeling throughout the subsequent relationship that I was longing for the return of someone who had really been there. It was her best self from my perspective, and I believed it was her truest self. It seemed like my ex needed a lot of energy and strength to live through that self. When she was under more stress, she would slip into one of the younger parts, or one of the manipulative, passive-aggressive ones, and I would feel like I was alone when I was with her.

Has anyone else had experiences like this with their BPD partner? How does it affect how you think about the relationship if you believe in the reality of your one time true lover, but only as a fragment of your ex-partner, who co-exists with other fragments, some with real feelings and others with no substance at all?

[Achaya]

I am 2 weeks out from final BU. Like some other people whose posts I have read, I feel very upset and troubled by the disappearance of the person I was in love with. The one who said she was in love with me, that she was mine forever, that she wanted to marry me.

Some people on this site (sorry, I don't have the references right now) have suggested that we regard the honeymoon phase of the relationship with our former BPD partners as consisting of courtship behavior. Courtship implies to me a person trying to impress the potential partner by putting her best foot forward. Courtship behavior might also consist of conscious manipulation in the form of intentional dishonesty and false presentations of self. In any case, I think that this view leads to the conclusion that the words spoken and behavior shown during courtship are part of a performance to varying degrees, not an authentic encounter between people who are perceiving each other objectively. The strongest form of this argument leads to the suggestion that the honeymoon phase of the relationship is not a real relationship between two people, and that we should not figure in the experiences from the honeymoon phase when we are trying to make sense out of the relationship.

I have tried to look at my relationship with my BPD ex from the above perspective, and I do think it fits. I can understand why some people would conclude that the person they fell in love with does not exist. That may be true in my case as well.

There is something more than this and stranger than this in my experience, however. My BPD ex had more personalities than just the Jekyll and Hyde that are usually mentioned. The personalities aren't fully worked out, and they don't dress differently or talk with different accents or anything like that, so I am pretty sure that my ex did not have Dissociative Identity Disorder, but I don't know how one would tell the difference. She was not diagnosed with DID.

The person I fell in love with was "out" most of the first year of our relationship, but only sporadically after that. That person was older, more dependable, aspiring to be a steadfast spouse who contributed to family life. The personalities who were around later were younger for the most part, some very young, and one who felt like a nasty teenager at the end. After the person I fell in love with disappeared and we went through our first withdrawal and reconciliation cycle, my ex told me that it was also her experience that part of herself was no longer out. She conveyed a high degree of confidence that she knew which part of herself I had fallen in love with, as this concurred with her own sense of who had been out in the recent past.

I always had the feeling throughout the subsequent relationship that I was longing for the return of someone who had really been there. It was her best self from my perspective, and I believed it was her truest self. It seemed like my ex needed a lot of energy and strength to live through that self. When she was under more stress, she would slip into one of the younger parts, or one of the manipulative, passive-aggressive ones, and I would feel like I was alone when I was with her.

Has anyone else had experiences like this with their BPD partner? How does it affect how you think about the relationship if you believe in the reality of your one time true lover, but only as a fragment of your ex-partner, who co-exists with other fragments, some with real feelings and others with no substance at all?

[stuckinarut]

Yes, I do agree.  I believe the person I fell in love with is the "truest" representation of who she was and/or aspired to be.  I agree with your theory and have applied elements of it to my own situation.  Even if she was mirroring me and/or serving my expectations to hide her empty self, it was still a role that suited her well and fit her persona.  Since she was highly intelligent when focused, I believe that is where she prefers and perhaps struggles to be.  I think she wanted me to never let her down so she wouldn't have to face her empty self again.  Naturally, like you and all of us, I failed.  It's clear now that she suffers from some stunted emotional growth (a traumatized Super Ego that never grew past the age of 5 or 8 or 12).  It's hard to believe.

Separately, we took the Gallup (Clinton) Strength Finder's Poll Self-Evaluation.  She was the WOO (Winning others over) and strategist.  I'm the individualist (looking at all as individuals - ironic that I now look at BPDers as monolithic demons) and responsible (aka also most likely to accept a whole lot of blame).  It all fits.

I appreciate your effort to intellectualize the trauma.  I believe it helps to frame up enough of the pieces to perhaps make sorting through the irrational parts a little easier.  The bottom line in your case is it's her loss.  Is she worth saving?  Probably, yes.  However, I'm told they're hard to treat because they walk out on therapy once they hear something they can't/won't accept or own about themselves and then blame the therapist.  This is why I also believe awareness is key.  Their supporters and the mob they create need to be more balanced in their assessments, look at both sides of the rock and consider intervention rather than blind support for the narcissistic (or phony) reversal behavior.

Good luck and peace, bro!

[patientandclear]

A--what you describe, which also seemed true of my ex, sounds like the "modes" of BPD personality described by Jeffrey Young in his work on schema therapy. He has a couple of good short articles describing schema therapy that first lay out the theory that there ARE nearly distinct personalities. If you google his name and Borderline and schema you'll find his work.

[valet]

Hey man, sorry for your predicament. It can be super painful to end a relationship with a person that you thought you had long-term potential with. You give up a lot!

Some people on this site (sorry, I don't have the references right now) have suggested that we regard the honeymoon phase of the relationship with our former BPD partners as consisting of courtship behavior. Courtship implies to me a person trying to impress the potential partner by putting her best foot forward. Courtship behavior might also consist of conscious manipulation in the form of intentional dishonesty and false presentations of self. In any case, I think that this view leads to the conclusion that the words spoken and behavior shown during courtship are part of a performance to varying degrees, not an authentic encounter between people who are perceiving each other objectively. The strongest form of this argument leads to the suggestion that the honeymoon phase of the relationship is not a real relationship between two people, and that we should not figure in the experiences from the honeymoon phase when we are trying to make sense out of the relationship.

I think that this knowledge is super important, and that the full realization of it in your own mind will be incredibly beneficial in your recovery. In any situation of loss, we are faced with the challenge of depersonalizing ourselves from whatever is not in our lives anymore. This process of detachment is super difficult, but you seem to be on the right path thus far. Good job!

Personally, I've been pondering the ideas that you have here quite frequently in an effort to more fully understand why the relationship fell apart and how I can best improve my current and future self.

I remember viscerally (and I think that this was exaggerated due to my situation with my ex—we went long-distance about 9 months into the relationship for a length of about 5 months) trying to convince myself that I was still in love with my ex when she went away, because I really felt special during the honeymoon phase. It made me realize that when her physical presence was gone, there was nothing there that I found incredibly special. She was so vulnerable and such a victim type personality in that first year I was with her. The honeymoon was a trap in that way, and when we went long-distance I didn't really, truly miss her. Life was fine without her. I didn't even feel sad at the airport. It was almost like, relief. I didn't have to carry her emotionally anymore, at least not at the proximity that I had before.

I stayed because I thought that it was just a phase, but the more I look back on it the more that I realized that I only stayed because she filled a hole for me. She improved my self-worth, and I felt special for it. When the honeymoon ended and the BPD her started to make it's presence felt, I was already too deep in this ideology to make the right decision for myself. It was silly, and I was very immature.

pwBPD are masters of courtship because they need a steady, reliable supply to fill the incredible void that their lack of self leaves in them. I don't think they necessary experience an entirely different set of emotions when in a relationship, just that their emotions are amplified to a magnitude that is not healthy. When they perceive even the smallest slight it becomes a huge deal, and when they experience the smallest bit of joy it becomes an almost intoxicating experience. This is both a blessing and a curse, because they achieve highs that we couldn't even imagine. The problem, of course, is that they are illusory and unrealistic, and it damages them in ways that we also couldn't imagine, in the long run.

[Achaya]

patient and clear,

Thank you so much for the referral to Dr. Young's work. What he describes matches my experience exactly! Because it does, I now feel certain that the person I fell in love with really does exist, but only as a fragile adult part of my ex's personality. For some reason she is able to relate through this mode early in a relationship, but she can't support this part of her personality enough to work out a stable lasting relationship. This explanation makes a big difference in how I look back at my relationship. It leads me to trust what I felt during the honeymoon, and to keep the good memories of beautiful connections.