New communication from uBPDm presenting an opportunity?

[ShieldsUp12]

Hi again.

So, I've been thinking about this situation with my uBPDm and the vmail she left (it alternates with raging horrible emails) and I'm reading the boards again, especially about "silent treatment" and I'm confused. I am NC. I went NC after she sent some really push-pull emails, vmails back in 2010 and I took it as my chance to just stop talking. I wasn't doing this to punish her, I was doing this to maintain some semblance of sanity in my life. I have asked this question before, about NC and silent treatment. I think one of the answers was to not say I am going NC, just stay silent.

I'm wondering if this latest round of stuff from her present me with an opportunity.

I am NOT wanting her to change anymore. I'm really just wanting to get off this internal merry go round I am on. I realized rather woefully that by reading her emails it helped in a way, to know she is still quite capable of being really damaging to my psyche, and it also disturbed me because apparently, I was hoping she would change and now worry if subconsciously my NC was a tool I was employing to make her change, which is categorized as abuse.

I'm sooper confused. I'm wondering what you all think of me saying the following:

Mother. I have received all of your emails and voicemails, and while I wish you and GM well I believe it is much healthier for me to maintain no contact. 

Is there something else I could write that would make it clear (I know, prob not) that I am not "punishing" her, I am merely keeping the situation as safe/healthy as I know how? I expect a rage attack. Not sure if I am prepared to deal with it.   

[Panda39]

Hi again.

So, I've been thinking about this situation with my uBPDm and the vmail she left (it alternates with raging horrible emails) and I'm reading the boards again, especially about "silent treatment" and I'm confused. I am NC. I went NC after she sent some really push-pull emails, vmails back in 2010 and I took it as my chance to just stop talking. I wasn't doing this to punish her, I was doing this to maintain some semblance of sanity in my life. I have asked this question before, about NC and silent treatment. I think one of the answers was to not say I am going NC, just stay silent.

I'm wondering if this latest round of stuff from her present me with an opportunity.

I am NOT wanting her to change anymore. I'm really just wanting to get off this internal merry go round I am on. I realized rather woefully that by reading her emails it helped in a way, to know she is still quite capable of being really damaging to my psyche, and it also disturbed me because apparently, I was hoping she would change and now worry if subconsciously my NC was a tool I was employing to make her change, which is categorized as abuse.

I'm sooper confused. I'm wondering what you all think of me saying the following:

Mother. I have received all of your emails and voicemails, and while I wish you and GM well I believe it is much healthier for me to maintain no contact. 

Is there something else I could write that would make it clear (I know, prob not) that I am not "punishing" her, I am merely keeping the situation as safe/healthy as I know how? I expect a rage attack. Not sure if I am prepared to deal with it.   

I think your mom is testing your boundaries and if you want no contact then just keep it simple and keep it no contact.

[ShieldsUp12]

Thank you Panda39.

[Harri]

Hi Shields!  

If you never told your mother that you did not want any contact with her, then I would take this as an opportunity to make it clear that she is not welcome in your life (if that is what you still want).  Just one email, phone call or whatever, to state clearly that you do not want letters, emails, phone calls, etc.  You might even say that this last exchange is a perfect illustration of *why* you do not want contact.  

I too have seen a lot of people recommend not saying anything and just cutting all contact but I have always wondered how we can then expect/hope that they will honor our wishes, or as seems to be more common, get upset when they continue to communicate.  Just going silent is well... . silent.  The other person is left hanging and wondering, never really sure what is going on.  Is it the silent treatment?  For the person going no contact, it does not seem to be, but the person on the receiving end of the silence may see it as manipulation, abuse, childishness, etc.  I know i would and have when I have been on the receiving end of it.  It is abuse IMO.  I would prefer even a simple F-off to be honest... . no guessing involved with that one!    

Mother. I have received all of your emails and voicemails, and while I wish you and GM well I believe it is much healthier for me to maintain no contact.  

I think this is perfect.  :)efinitely expect and plan for a rage response though.  You know her and you know her bag of tricks/traits, so expect it, and plan for it and while it will not be pleasant, you can respond in such a way that you limit the damage to yourself.

Best of luck to you.

[ShieldsUp12]

Hello Harri,

Here's the thing. My mother sent me a letter in February of 2010 to let me know she would never be contacting me again. And then proceeded to have extinction bursts that included having my GM call me, her calling me, emailing me, etc., etc. BTW - this is how the whole NC started: in December of the previous year she raged at me and "disowned" me because I had chosen to spend the holiday with my DHs family instead of with her. That particular rage almost put me in the hospital because I was certain I was having a heart attack. It was just panic and I got on the plane and went. I did (stupidly) send her roses on her birthday in January, which resulted in a gushy letter, but then my father who was in the final stages of terminal illness (they were divorced for a long time and she was not involved at all) went out to the hospital for two weeks with blood in his urine, had to be placed in another nursing home, which I had to go looking all over for in the middle of a horrendous cold spell. That took some time. I got the flu and then beginning of February I got the letter from her. She had not once picked up a phone during this period of time to see if I was OK before determining that I was treating her in a "9 year old way" and saying she would never contact me again. She's really sick. Really.

She has had a habit in the past of "disowning" me and then conveniently "forgetting" that she has disowned me and expecting me to just forgive it all without ever saying she is sorry or even acknowledging that she has "disowned" me. I used to give in and run back and say nothing, only to have the whole chain start over again.

I've always thought about simply copying the letter that she sent to me in 2010 and sending it back to her along with a note that I would prefer to keep to her boundary from 2010 of no contact. I'm sure either way that it would create rage, but maybe it would give me some closure? It is so hard to predict the outcome of anything, how it will make me feel afterward or what the aftermath will be. I wish I had a normal mother. This has consumed so much of my life for my entire life and I am no spring chicken. I just want to have my own life and be happy for once. Whether that means sending the letter or not is where I have been stuck. Maybe I should just send it so I have some closure for me.

[Linda Maria]

Hi Shieldsup12!  So sorry to hear what you're going through - I can completely understand how difficult it is to know what to do to feel better about it, and to end the madness.  When I was going through the worst of it with my uBPDsis a while ago, I realised that it made no difference how nice or neutral my communications were, they would always trigger an abusive response.  Her awful letters, and texts stressed me out so much that I just went NC as far as possible.  We were joint executors of my late Mum's estate so I had to have some contact - but I tried to do it through third parties (solicitors, estates agents etc.) as much as possible, and mainly kept 3rd parties copied in if I had to write to her.  It did stop her from writing so many nasty letters to me, though not completely, and I think once she realised that I wasn't going to respond, and that I would most likely show these letters to the other parties, then they did more or less stop, other than isolated incidents.  You have to do what's right for you.  If you feel it's the right thing, and you would be happiest if you had made a clear statement to her about maintaining NC then fine - send the letter.  There is nothing wrong with that.  I never bothered doing that with my sister - because as I said before, the simplest, most benign  communication would elicit an abusive response, which made me feel I had no obligation whatsoever to advise her I was going NC, as I would just bring more nastiness upon myself.  But I can totally understand why you would want to "draw a line" more definitely - and make her aware.  So my advice for what it's worth is do whatever you are most comfortable with.  If you want to be NC, be NC, and once you have sent the final communication, if you choose to do that, then if that elicits some nasty response, ignore it from then on.  You sound like you have handled it very well so far, and I wish you luck.  Go be free of this and enjoy your life, doing anything else doesn't help them anyway.  Best wishes.

[Harri]

Hi again Shield.  Okay, so those additional details do paint a clearer picture.  I still think you should directly say something though, otherwise, IMO (which counts for nothing really   ) it is the Silent treatment.  More importantly though, for you, this can be very empowering.  Tell her you have been taking her at her word re: disowning you and that you prefer to remain in no contact with her.  Granted, it may not stop her antics, as evidenced by past behavior, but you will make your position clear to her and **seeing/hearing yourself stand up for you and say NO to the usual crap** will, like you said, give *you* a sense of closure.

My vote, again for what it is worth, is to send a copy of her letter to you with your added comment.

I wish you the very best.  I am also sorry to hear about your father and to know what a struggle this situation has been to you.

Be well.

[ShieldsUp12]

Thank you both for your replies. Here's the other sticky wicket. As I was writing this email to her, I realized that while she had broken her own NC, I had allowed it and communicated back to her. I had even seen her in the hospital and rehab after my gm fell and broke her arm. So, that's contradictory on my part. It was a very confusing time.

I personally think this is a good email to send, along with the attachment of the letter, but some second opinions might be in order:

Mother. I have received and considered all of your letters, emails and voicemails, and while I wish you and grandmother well, it is much healthier for me to maintain no contact. This was originally your wish in 2010, which has been ignored and violated by you to my confusion over the past several years. I have attached your letter. You may wish to clarify your stance, but given the subsequent communication from you since this time, especially one from September of last year, again, I feel it is much safer for me to remain no contact.

sidenote: I called a T who specializes in BP behavior today. I feel so good about that. I need to stop the cycle with myself, too, and I'm realizing this might be a lifelong thing I have to deal with. I was having a brief pity party about that but I guess there are a lot of people who have to deal with chronic illness, right?

[ShieldsUp12]

Back to this, which I have been stuck on for weeks now. I'm upset that my brain has allowed me to get sucked back in on an inward cycle of negative self thought. I thought I was stronger than this, and I will get stronger than this, because my own weakness has been shown to me.

I went to T rather than respond to anything, to really start addressing all the emotional garbage I've been "hoarding" in my brain. Things sometimes become clearer, and then a few days after T they get a bit clouded again. But, going to T and reading as much as I can and thinking things through, I am wondering if anyone has ever tried saying this to their pwBPD when they rage:

"I wish you loved yourself enough to not say or do these hurtful things."

It seems from everything I've been able to gather about pwBPDs (although pwNBPD is a bit trickier for me to understand), that most of the rage is rage they feel toward themselves but project onto other people because, well, who could handle that amount of rage? It's one of the reasons I don't talk to her anymore, because I still internalize and make her emotions my emotions and those feelings don't belong to me. I am not what she says and I'm not her emotional storage bin. So far, NC has been the only way for me to break that outward cycle, although I've faltered pretty badly in this particular situation in terms of internal self-talk. I wonder if this response would elicit a different reaction in the pwBPD? At the moment it just seems whatever I do, short of falling back into how things used to be which is no longer acceptable to me, is going to be hurtful to her and start up a cycle. But maybe responding by stating that I wish she had more love for herself and until she starts treating herself with more compassion and love I have to remain out of contact, if that would inspire an "ah-ha" moment?

Now if I could just get over the fear that this might work and I'll have to re-engage with her and try setting up boundaries that will be respected by both parties. LOL.

[Panda39]

But maybe responding by stating that I wish she had more love for herself and until she starts treating herself with more compassion and love I have to remain out of contact, if that would inspire an "ah-ha" moment?

I'm sorry if I sound harsh and I hate to be Debbie Downer but I don't think she will even understand what you are talking about.  So many here have tried to inspire and help their pwBPD understand that they have a problem and are terribly hurtful to those around them but it doesn't go anywhere.  We can only change ourselves we can't force change in others.  Rather than focusing on inspiring/fixing your mom I would work on myself (which it sounds like you are  ).  Put the focus on yourself that is the place you can get some real work done.

[ShieldsUp12]

Hi again Panda. You're not a Debbie Downer. You are realistic. I have soo much work to do on myself. I realized shortly after posting that I had made a "fixer" statement there. I really do wish that she would have some love and compassion for herself, but you are right, it will be taken the wrong way. It seems to me that the most compassionate thing I can do right now is what I've been doing. NC. It really is not the silent treatment, she is just trying to make it seem like it is because she (I think) cannot handle that she is the one who is making these statements that she will never contact me again and that I am in agreement, silently. I used to run back to her all the time after she would make these kinds of statements, just to smooth things over so I could have a mom. My challenge with this latest round is to stop trying to get inside her head and keep inside my own head a bit more here. Why is this so hard for me? I know I'm stubborn, I just really don't get it and I have to stop feeling so responsible for her dysregulation. It's sad. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to have a reconciliation for Mother's Day. Somewhere in me is still a person who would like to have a mom. I just have to reconcile with myself. It is what it is. I'm stuck on this in T, as well, but I'm starting to see the light a bit. 

Thank you for the support, Panda.

[Panda39]

It seems to me that the most compassionate thing I can do right now is what I've been doing. NC.

I hope you mean compassion for yourself.  That is what NC should be about... .taking care of you.  Putting space between you and the problem/trigger... .your mom.  The distance gives you space to work on you without the FOG, the chaos and the confusion.

My challenge with this latest round is to stop trying to get inside her head and keep inside my own head a bit more here. Why is this so hard for me? I know I'm stubborn, I just really don't get it and I have to stop feeling so responsible for her

It's hard because she is your mother and you love her.  I think you are in her head because you want to fix the BPD. 

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to have a reconciliation for Mother's Day. Somewhere in me is still a person who would like to have a mom.

It sounds to me that this is at the heart of your current struggle with NC and Mother's Day is the trigger.  Of course you want a beautiful and meaningful Mother's Day spent with a loving mother it is what every child would want.  You seem to be struggling with the dream mom you wish you had and the reality of the mother you have.

For anyone that has a complicated or difficult relationship with mom, Mother's Day is such an emotionally loaded day.  My SO is home with his daughters 14 & 18 this weekend because they have chosen to not see their uBPDmom.  You will not be alone tomorrow.   

[ShieldsUp12]

It seems to me that the most compassionate thing I can do right now is what I've been doing. NC.

I hope you mean compassion for yourself.

Hi Panda, I actually meant for the both of us. I don't really see too much wrong in wanting to be compassionate toward her, as long as I don't re-engage directly or appear to be condoning her behavior. However, I will think on what you have said there. I really could work on being more compassionate for myself.  Thank you.

[Linda Maria]

Hi shieldsup12!  I totally agree with Panda, but I completely understand the emotional struggle you're going through.  With my uBPDsis, I have struggled a lot to accept the situation.  I totally get that being NC massively helps stop all the obsessing, the less I hear about her, the less I think about it, and the more "normal" my life starts to become again.  I know it's the right thing for me.  But in my heart I would like to be able to help her, and I don't like to think of her going through life with no-one close to her (she has no partner or children, and there is just her and me now from our FOO), or constantly feeling abandoned, angry, in pain, and hurt, however deluded those feelings may be, they are real to her.  All I ever wanted was peace and an end to the nastiness - and I largely have that now, but I still feel guilty sometimes - when I hear something she has said to someone about me - I don't know why I feel guilty - it's usually some horrible lie and I should feel angry, but mainly I feel sad that she has said it, and weirdly guilty, in case the person believes it to any degree.  But this is something I have to work on accepting in my life, that these things will come up now and then, and that's how it is - I'm not a bad person, I didn't create this situation, I think I did the kindest thing I could to go NC, certainly for me, - but also for her, because I could have been a complete doormat for ever, and it still wouldn't have stopped the nastiness - I tried for long enough - and it doesn't help her.  By going NC, at least I have removed myself as a trigger and a target.  It is a massive thing to accept that nothing you can say or do can make it right, especially if, like a lot of people here I suspect, I am one of life's fixers, and love to reach out and help people, and make things better.  I'm a natural diplomat, peace-maker, willing to compromise, can always see the bigger picture - so it feels like a failure of sorts, to not be able to make things right with my own sister.  But I have to live with that fact without taking it personally or screwing up my own life over it.  It is to your eternal credit that you still feel such compassion for your mum, it says a lot about you, but you do need to think about what you are trying to achieve.  You cannot make them better, make them understand, get them to apologise  or any of that - it just won't happen.  I have come to terms with the fact now, largely, that NC is definitely the healthiest - frankly only - solution for me, to avoid continued unacceptable levels of stress in my life, and I do think, that until she ever gets any insight into the fact that she has a problem - it is best for my uBPDsis, as any response from me is tantamount to accepting her behaviour.  Not sure I've been very clear - but I feel for you - hope things get more positive. 

[Only Child]

that simple, but direct and straightforward and emotionless message from you that contains zero uncertainty or ambiguity is the best method.  This is what I had to do with my uBPD mom going several years back.  She was also deluging me with horrible v-mails/e-mails. I am in NC now, I stated my boundaries clearly, and she has periodically tried to break those boundaries.  In response to that, I have had to 1) block her e-mail address so I would never seem them 2) return all her letters back unread; 3) screen ALL my calls through v-mail, and when I hear her voice, cut her off immediately.  I have stated these rules to her in my message giving her clear boundaries, and when she crosses over them, I do all of the above and do not respond.  This is the only thing that has given me peace, although she still tries.  Best of luck 

[ShieldsUp12]

Linda Maria and Only Child, thank you so much for your responses.

Linda Maria, you are very clear, and have stated so well what I struggle with and how I feel with NC, especially about how NC removes as much of the trigger as possible. She's obviously still being triggered by things, but at least I am not directly triggering her most of the time. Again, "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

Only Child, this is still something I need to work on for me. I hate to admit, but I think there is some truth to the idea that I never clearly stated my own NC, other than just going NC, because I really have been reluctant to be so final about things. It's that darn pesky hope that is getting in the way.