It's OK to want something, but how to deal with self sabotage?

[Notwendy]

The essence of this as that it is a pwBPDs lot that they always seem to act in a way that sabotages the ability to have their desires and needs met. In this example acting this way is the best way to ensure that Max will not want to commit to having a family, even if the desire for having a family is triggering it.

It is the BPD catch 22, and is repeated in many aspects throughout their life. Appeasing the need rarely fixes anything, the behavior moves to something else. Yes having a baby may soothe a pwBPD, but for how long before something else upsets the ability to regulate themselves? The behavior doesn't change only the focal point

WW posted this on another thread, but I think it is an important topic to discuss.

It seems that directly expressing needs, and asking for them, is something that can apply to pw BPD and nons as well. My H has difficulty expressing his wants. I posted on another thread, he felt he wanted more sex, and so raged and accused me of never having sex with him resulted in me feeling less desire and to give in reluctantly to stop the rages. This may have satisfied his physical need, but not emotional. He wants me to want him but the rages result in the opposite from me.

Growing up in my family, if I asked for something, mom would make sure I didn't get it. Asking for something makes one vulnerable to them, and they can then assert control or power. This is something they may fear will be done to them if they are on the asking side, so instead they choose a different behavior?

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[Michelle27]

I can relate to this.  My H says he tried to show his love for me but in the wrong ways for many years.  I'd have to agree with that.  He seemed to do everything to push me away while I was scrambling to get closer.  And now that he is scrambling for me to get closer again, I have lost so much trust and don't believe a thing he says or does so I'm almost indifferent.  I am hoping that time and consistency will turn that around for me, but I don't know yet if it will.

[Tomzxz]

I can relate to this.  My ex used to say that she never asked me to do any of the things I did for her but she would often assert control and power if I ever asked anything of her or complimented her.  If I said she looked good in a dress she would never wear it again.  If It was someplace or something I enjoyed doing with her she would never do it again.  I nicknamed this behavior oppositional defiance disorder.  I learned to never tell her when I enjoyed something we did or something I liked about her out of fear that it would be taken away.  And without this normal validation found in healthy relationships we slipped further and further into being just roommates rather than partners.  So just as she didn't like to ask for anything thinking it would make her vulnerable, I believe that she was reluctant to do something for me not just out of selfishness but out of some irrational fear of being controlled by or vulnerable to another person.  She could never form a bond of trust or reciprocation and after we split she admitted that she couldn't be in an adult relationship.  Keep in mind the woman was forty at the time.  So sad.

[LeonVa]

I can relate to this as well. My wife (in separation) always wanted me to love her more, even though I've been with her all the time. I cared for her as much as I can and then she raged against me which does the exact opposite.  

Her typical ways of pushing me farther

- Silent treatment if I missed some moments important to her.

- Over react on issues

- Passive aggressive replies such as if you can't make it, don't bother.

- Simply does not recognize my efforts nor show appreciation.  One time she mentioned, I said "thank you"?  That was her way.

So yeah, i think too that they think by "asking", it shows their weakness and to my exWife at least, she thought it would make her look needy/nagging, so they project their frustrations onto us and blames us for not "getting it" or simply, we refuse to work with them.

Sometimes it's true, we get annoyed due to the way they ask as they tend to "accuse" you instead of "discuss" it with you, so at least for me, I chose to "ignore" or talk at a different time, but that reaffirms their belief of the rejection.  So frustrated without options, they choose other ways to "discuss" it with you which pushes us even farther.

I do think us nons, have to get used to their ways of expressing themselves and not get triggered. It's hard to be the emotional caretakers to be honest, lead them into a healthy, constructive conversations. Take control without getting pissed off ourselves.

@Tom had a good point, which shined some light into as to why I felt she never gave back the love / respect I felt I needed. It could be for the same reason that they feel by "asking", it makes them weak and the possibility of lose control and be vulnerable. Something for me to think about.

[Hmcbart]

Yes, yes and yes.

Oppositional Definace Disorder, not sure if this is an actual medical term but it fits perfectly. I have made the mistake a few times of telling my wife that I enjoyed something with her only to have it taken away the next time because she didn't like it. She even expressed enjoyment several times but when asked about it later, it is always a misunderstanding and she didn't actually enjoy it.

It doesn't matter what it was or what she said before. I've posted before about a Father's Day incident about 8 years ago. I bought a lawnmower while she and the kids were out of town visiting relatives. When I told her she got mad and told me that she had ordered me a new BBQ grill for Father's Day but since I obviously wanted a new lawnmower more she canceled the order.

This isn't the same as her enjoyment but I feel it follows the same theory. Doing something nice for someone else takes away their control. Or at least knocks them off guard and keeps the control intact.

[ColdEthyl]

The essence of this as that it is a pwBPDs lot that they always seem to act in a way that sabotages the ability to have their desires and needs met. In this example acting this way is the best way to ensure that Max will not want to commit to having a family, even if the desire for having a family is triggering it.

It is the BPD catch 22, and is repeated in many aspects throughout their life. Appeasing the need rarely fixes anything, the behavior moves to something else. Yes having a baby may soothe a pwBPD, but for how long before something else upsets the ability to regulate themselves? The behavior doesn't change only the focal point

WW posted this on another thread, but I think it is an important topic to discuss.

It seems that directly expressing needs, and asking for them, is something that can apply to pw BPD and nons as well. My H has difficulty expressing his wants. I posted on another thread, he felt he wanted more sex, and so raged and accused me of never having sex with him resulted in me feeling less desire and to give in reluctantly to stop the rages. This may have satisfied his physical need, but not emotional. He wants me to want him but the rages result in the opposite from me.

Growing up in my family, if I asked for something, mom would make sure I didn't get it. Asking for something makes one vulnerable to them, and they can then assert control or power. This is something they may fear will be done to them if they are on the asking side, so instead they choose a different behavior?

My H also has a hard time expressing he wants... .I'm not entirely convinced he even knows what they are on any given day. He just knows he feels bad inside. Often, he will expects me to perform some sort of anticipatory mind reading that I am not capable of.

We have been talking about this, and that has helped but I still do step on unexpected land mines. I've learned to watch for this possibility when his anxiety is up, it's more likely to occur. It's the shifting of blame... .shifting the negative feelings they cannot process properly into another avenue, with the hopes of finding release.

I'm constantly searching for ways I can combat his self sabotage. He knows he needs to do something... .he wants to do something... .but that anxiety and fear well up in him. What I am doing at the moment is letting him know what things need to be done for the week... .and I literally schedule his week and hold his hand.

IE This morning "Ok baby, we got that Wednesday appointment at 12 noon. I need you to help me with laundry before then. You don't have to do it today, but can we get this done tomorrow?" So far that's working pretty good. Telling him I need him, showing gratitude for little things accomplished, not blowing up or getting angry at him for something not being done has been helpful. If he doesn't do something he told me he would... .he usually beats himself up about it enough for the both of us... .I just don't always hear the words he tells himself inside.

Don't fall into the trap of being overly gratuitous, though. I've praised him too much for things before and he actually got angry at me, "It's wasn't that big of a deal. I don't deserve that much thanks for doing what I should anyways"

So, I say it once and nonchalantly. That's been the best for him so far.