Childhood of caring for other people predisposes to NPD/BPD partners?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Perhaps this is a topic that is already well known, but I was listening to the mental happy hour podcast recently and the guest was talking about how she ended up in an abusive relationship because of her codependency issues. She had an alcoholic mother and had been taking care of her, mediating between her parents since middle school and had a tendency to want to 'fix' things. She stayed in the relationship despite the abuse because she was convinced that somehow she could 'fix' her abuser.

This really resonated with me. My brother who is 7 years younger than me was diagnosed with severe non-verbal autism at the age of 3 and I was his secondary caretaker until I was 18. My mother put the responsibility of taking care of him on me since I was 9 years old. Anytime I wasn't in school I was taking care of my brother, teaching him words, teaching  him how to read, generally minding him. If I wanted to go out to see some friends in my neighbourhood it was under the condition that I took my brother. I would come home from school at 3 and my mom would be going to work at 4 so I would have an hour to myself before having to take over for my brother. This went on for a good 5 years, so I never got to see my friends after school, never got invited to parties since I couldn't go.  My dad simply stayed at work for as long as possible and pretended like there was no issue. I remember being really resentful as a teenager. I once left for a 4 day cottage trip (First time in my life) at the age of 18 and when I came back my mother was yelling at me that I hadn't been there and she'd had to take care of everything around the house and that I was incredibly selfish.

Anyways, the point here is that when I realised that my pwBPD had issues, I instantly went into that caretaker mode. I had these surreal idea that as long as I was loving, caring, supportive enough I could fix his abandonment problems. That I'd be better than all his exes and so on.

I took the abuse, the way I took it when my brother was aggressive, I took all responsibility when my SO blamed me.

And then I realised he had BPD. I took that in stride, started considering that maybe his exes, mother, former friends, weren't actually the problem. That just because he claimed it, didn't make it true.

It's taken me longer to accept that it's a PD and that there is no fix. He is how he is. If he chooses to get therapy, then that's great. If not, well that's his decision. I'm my own person. I have my own to deal with. He's got a mental illness and he will probably never get better.

Our relationship has gotten better, though. It's less an abusive relationship now and more of a work in progress and that makes me truly happy. I was doing an online course on interpersonal communication and they talked about relationship de-escalation and what a happy relationship looks like. From an objective standpoint, we were on a much more worse scale just a few weeks ago, but now things have stabilised enough that I feel real joy in his company. There is plenty to work on, but it's many more happy positive interactions than unhappy negative conflicted ones and the emotional abuse has teetered off for now, especially since I've really started actively using tools in all situations.

[misuniadziubek]

Perhaps this is a topic that is already well known, but I was listening to the mental happy hour podcast recently and the guest was talking about how she ended up in an abusive relationship because of her codependency issues. She had an alcoholic mother and had been taking care of her, mediating between her parents since middle school and had a tendency to want to 'fix' things. She stayed in the relationship despite the abuse because she was convinced that somehow she could 'fix' her abuser.

This really resonated with me. My brother who is 7 years younger than me was diagnosed with severe non-verbal autism at the age of 3 and I was his secondary caretaker until I was 18. My mother put the responsibility of taking care of him on me since I was 9 years old. Anytime I wasn't in school I was taking care of my brother, teaching him words, teaching  him how to read, generally minding him. If I wanted to go out to see some friends in my neighbourhood it was under the condition that I took my brother. I would come home from school at 3 and my mom would be going to work at 4 so I would have an hour to myself before having to take over for my brother. This went on for a good 5 years, so I never got to see my friends after school, never got invited to parties since I couldn't go.  My dad simply stayed at work for as long as possible and pretended like there was no issue. I remember being really resentful as a teenager. I once left for a 4 day cottage trip (First time in my life) at the age of 18 and when I came back my mother was yelling at me that I hadn't been there and she'd had to take care of everything around the house and that I was incredibly selfish.

Anyways, the point here is that when I realised that my pwBPD had issues, I instantly went into that caretaker mode. I had these surreal idea that as long as I was loving, caring, supportive enough I could fix his abandonment problems. That I'd be better than all his exes and so on.

I took the abuse, the way I took it when my brother was aggressive, I took all responsibility when my SO blamed me.

And then I realised he had BPD. I took that in stride, started considering that maybe his exes, mother, former friends, weren't actually the problem. That just because he claimed it, didn't make it true.

It's taken me longer to accept that it's a PD and that there is no fix. He is how he is. If he chooses to get therapy, then that's great. If not, well that's his decision. I'm my own person. I have my own to deal with. He's got a mental illness and he will probably never get better.

Our relationship has gotten better, though. It's less an abusive relationship now and more of a work in progress and that makes me truly happy. I was doing an online course on interpersonal communication and they talked about relationship de-escalation and what a happy relationship looks like. From an objective standpoint, we were on a much more worse scale just a few weeks ago, but now things have stabilised enough that I feel real joy in his company. There is plenty to work on, but it's many more happy positive interactions than unhappy negative conflicted ones and the emotional abuse has teetered off for now, especially since I've really started actively using tools in all situations.

[momtara]

Yup. Certainly makes sense. I was always taking care of my mentally ill mother, or at least covering for her.

[Rifka]

Perhaps this is a topic that is already well known, but I was listening to the mental happy hour podcast recently and the guest was talking about how she ended up in an abusive relationship because of her codependency issues. She had an alcoholic mother and had been taking care of her, mediating between her parents since middle school and had a tendency to want to 'fix' things. She stayed in the relationship despite the abuse because she was convinced that somehow she could 'fix' her abuser.

This really resonated with me. My brother who is 7 years younger than me was diagnosed with severe non-verbal autism at the age of 3 and I was his secondary caretaker until I was 18. My mother put the responsibility of taking care of him on me since I was 9 years old. Anytime I wasn't in school I was taking care of my brother, teaching him words, teaching  him how to read, generally minding him. If I wanted to go out to see some friends in my neighbourhood it was under the condition that I took my brother. I would come home from school at 3 and my mom would be going to work at 4 so I would have an hour to myself before having to take over for my brother. This went on for a good 5 years, so I never got to see my friends after school, never got invited to parties since I couldn't go.  My dad simply stayed at work for as long as possible and pretended like there was no issue. I remember being really resentful as a teenager. I once left for a 4 day cottage trip (First time in my life) at the age of 18 and when I came back my mother was yelling at me that I hadn't been there and she'd had to take care of everything around the house and that I was incredibly selfish.

Anyways, the point here is that when I realised that my pwBPD had issues, I instantly went into that caretaker mode. I had these surreal idea that as long as I was loving, caring, supportive enough I could fix his abandonment problems. That I'd be better than all his exes and so on.

I took the abuse, the way I took it when my brother was aggressive, I took all responsibility when my SO blamed me.

And then I realised he had BPD. I took that in stride, started considering that maybe his exes, mother, former friends, weren't actually the problem. That just because he claimed it, didn't make it true.

It's taken me longer to accept that it's a PD and that there is no fix. He is how he is. If he chooses to get therapy, then that's great. If not, well that's his decision. I'm my own person. I have my own to deal with. He's got a mental illness and he will probably never get better.

Our relationship has gotten better, though. It's less an abusive relationship now and more of a work in progress and that makes me truly happy. I was doing an online course on interpersonal communication and they talked about relationship de-escalation and what a happy relationship looks like. From an objective standpoint, we were on a much more worse scale just a few weeks ago, but now things have stabilised enough that I feel real joy in his company. There is plenty to work on, but it's many more happy positive interactions than unhappy negative conflicted ones and the emotional abuse has teetered off for now, especially since I've really started actively using tools in all situations.

I completely relate!

[Tay25]

It is certainly true that people with a caretaker personality are perfect victims for BPD/NPD Partners.

My father was an alcoholic growing up and would take out his anger, frustration and many other feelings on me. Which has caused me to feel responsible for other peoples feelings. My mother and father would frequently fight and I would be there to comfort both of them and mediate between them hearing both of their sides at a young age (about 10?), which has definitely spawned some issues with me. Thankfully the gift of a BPD partner was given to me while I am still young and has helped me understand the changes I need to make, however long it may take.

[misuniadziubek]

It is certainly true that people with a caretaker personality are perfect victims for BPD/NPD Partners.

My father was an alcoholic growing up and would take out his anger, frustration and many other feelings on me. Which has caused me to feel responsible for other peoples feelings. My mother and father would frequently fight and I would be there to comfort both of them and mediate between them hearing both of their sides at a young age (about 10?), which has definitely spawned some issues with me. Thankfully the gift of a BPD partner was given to me while I am still young and has helped me understand the changes I need to make, however long it may take.

You know, it's so incredibly unfair that you had to deal mediating between your parents, being just a child. That's called emotional incest and it's actually scarring to children. It forces kids to grow up too quickly and blurs the lines between parent and child.

Parents are there to parent. They should never use a child as a source of validation or comfort when they can't get it from their spouse.

What ensues is a role that the child is not capable of fulfilling yet might feel special or privileged in so doing. Clearly in this dynamic the child is covertly, emotionally abandoned by the parent(s) and being robbed of her or his childhood.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/was-part-your-childhood-deprived-emotional-incest

What changes are you actively trying to make?

[Tay25]

I never really thought of the impact it has had on me,thanks for bringing that up. I have felt that for most of my life I matured/ grew up much faster than everyone I know and prided myself on it.

One thing I have noticed that has really damaged me is my mom guilting and shaming me by saying "I thought I did a good job raising you" when I began to smoke weed.

Right now I have been making lifestyle changes:

1. Quit smoking marijuana the day I broke up with my BPDex (5 months off now), drink once every 2-3 weeks socially

2. Healthy diet

3. Working out

4. Searching for new job

5. Spending leisure time reading, or doing other productive things rather than watching movies or playing xbox

6. Will be going to support groups soon

Personally:

1. Seeing a therapist

2. Understanding behaviors/thinking patterns that are unhealthy/no longer serve me and ways of changing them

3. Making sense of various aspects of my childhood

4. Not looking for a relationship until I heal my core traumas, feel lovable and have a higher self-esteem/confidence

5. Venting my thoughts through notes and posts on forums

[misuniadziubek]

I never really thought of the impact it has had on me,thanks for bringing that up. I have felt that for most of my life I matured/ grew up much faster than everyone I know and prided myself on it.

One thing I have noticed that has really damaged me is my mom guilting and shaming me by saying "I thought I did a good job raising you" when I began to smoke weed.

Heh. That sounds way too familiar to me. Both the growing up/maturing quicker and the guilt and shame. In my case it would be something like:

I thought I raised you right, but you've made all these terrible decisions that I don't agree with\

You were so much more clever/smart when you were 18. What happened to you?

Heh. 18, when I listened to her without question and didn't make my own choices, and lied incessantly about everything to protect her from the fact that I was no longer a child?

I was absolutely miserable and could not for the life of me understand what was wrong in the relationship. I just knew I needed out and moved very far away.

Right now I have been making lifestyle changes:

1. Quit smoking marijuana the day I broke up with my BPDex (5 months off now), drink once every 2-3 weeks socially

2. Healthy diet

3. Working out

4. Searching for new job

5. Spending leisure time reading, or doing other productive things rather than watching movies or playing xbox

6. Will be going to support groups soon

Personally:

1. Seeing a therapist

2. Understanding behaviors/thinking patterns that are unhealthy/no longer serve me and ways of changing them

3. Making sense of various aspects of my childhood

4. Not looking for a relationship until I heal my core traumas, feel lovable and have a higher self-esteem/confidence

5. Venting my thoughts through notes and posts on forums

Honestly, that sounds really healthy. Especially the personal changes.

What sort of support groups are you planning to go to?

In terms of relationships, you can actually enter into healing relationships with people who will support you on your journey to heal. I'm not necessary speaking of romantic ones, but it is very possible and helpful to have someone rooting for you.

Best of luck. Please keep posting

[jhkbuzz]

This is the very thing that confuses me: I didn't caretake anyone as a child.  My parents were my parents, I didn't mediate, caretake or anything.  The only thing I did was consistently try to placate my often raging mother.

I don't know how I ended up in a caretaking r/s with my exBPDgf.  I normally have very little respect for adults who can't take care of themselves and their lives.

[Turkish]

This is the very thing that confuses me: I didn't caretake anyone as a child.  My parents were my parents, I didn't mediate, caretake or anything.  The only thing I did was consistently try to placate my often raging mother.

I don't know how I ended up in a caretaking r/s with my exBPDgf.  I normally have very little respect for adults who can't take care of themselves and their lives.

That sounds like you being put into the place as a child to be responsible for her feelings, certainly a caretaker role on an emotional level, no?

I've read the emotional incest article that misuniadziubek posted above over and over. I'm still trying to come to terms with how it applies to my own childhood growing up with my Hermit-Waif BPD mother.

[jhkbuzz]

This is the very thing that confuses me: I didn't caretake anyone as a child.  My parents were my parents, I didn't mediate, caretake or anything.  The only thing I did was consistently try to placate my often raging mother.

I don't know how I ended up in a caretaking r/s with my exBPDgf.  I normally have very little respect for adults who can't take care of themselves and their lives.

That sounds like you being put into the place as a child to be responsible for her feelings, certainly a caretaker role on an emotional level, no?

I've read the emotional incest article that misuniadziubek posted above over and over. I'm still trying to come to terms with how it applies to my own childhood growing up with my Hermit-Waif BPD mother.

Yes, for sure.  I realized that a few months ago, and also realized I took on that exact role with my ex - always trying to placate, always trying to make her happy to "fix" things.

Funny thing is that my mother and my ex are nothing alike. But that same dynamic kicked in anyway.

I took a look at the incest article that misuniadziubek posted - it doesn't apply at all.  My parents definitely turned to one another and were a unified team as far as the kids were concerned. I didn't caretake my mother, I placated her.  She exploded unexpectedly and raged often.  My ex was a waif - never raged at all.

[misuniadziubek]

Yes, for sure.  I realized that a few months ago, and also realized I took on that exact role with my ex - always trying to placate, always trying to make her happy to "fix" things.

Funny thing is that my mother and my ex are nothing alike. But that same dynamic kicked in anyway.

I took a look at the incest article that misuniadziubek posted - it doesn't apply at all.  My parents definitely turned to one another and were a unified team as far as the kids were concerned. I didn't caretake my mother, I placated her.  She exploded unexpectedly and raged often.  My ex was a waif - never raged at all.

In my case, I didn't have a lot of emotional incest going on in my childhood either. Once I became a teenager, I started to realise that my mother couldn't always read people as well as me so if she had an issue at my brother's school with one of the teachers, I was better at explaining to her why someone might have acted a certain way, but she tended to turn to my dad for emotional support.

I guess I should feel grateful that at least there was such a boundary.

My parents were definitely on a united front as far as their relationship and parenting was. I would try to turn to a single parent to complain about the other but that just meant that they'd talk and I'd end up the loser. :P I actually wasn't very aware of their relationship issues until I was about 19 or 20 and it came as a bit of a shock.

It was mostly the responsibility of taking care of my brother and being left to my own devices since all the attention was on him and his disability that made me grow up quicker than usual.

My caretaking is also sourced in always having to appease to my mother and her outbursts.

So no, emotional incest isn't a necessary precursor to a caretaker role. The sad part is that life with my pwBPD WAS treated as a do-over, for both my toxic relationship with my mother and fixing my brother of his disability :P

[jhkbuzz]

My caretaking is also sourced in always having to appease to my mother and her outbursts.

So no, emotional incest isn't a necessary precursor to a caretaker role. The sad part is that life with my pwBPD WAS treated as a do-over, for both my toxic relationship with my mother and fixing my brother of his disability :P

Were you in a r/s with a pwBPD that raged?  If I had been then the "do over" with my ex would totally make sense (as repetition compulsion) - my mother wasn't afraid to rage wherever and whenever at whomever (mostly us kids). But my ex was a waif and swallowed her rage - it came out in all sorts of destructive passive aggressiveness. Never overtly.

[misuniadziubek]

My caretaking is also sourced in always having to appease to my mother and her outbursts.

So no, emotional incest isn't a necessary precursor to a caretaker role. The sad part is that life with my pwBPD WAS treated as a do-over, for both my toxic relationship with my mother and fixing my brother of his disability :P

Were you in a r/s with a pwBPD that raged?  If I had been then the "do over" with my ex would totally make sense (as repetition compulsion) - my mother wasn't afraid to rage wherever and whenever at whomever (mostly us kids). But my ex was a waif and swallowed her rage - it came out in all sorts of destructive passive aggressiveness. Never overtly.

Um. Well my mother was an NPD but she would often go through extremes. She was predominantly a queen 95% of the time but she had waif-like moments if I ever disagreed with her or poked at her reality. Suddenly I was her persecutor and she would act like a child or hurt puppy, extremely passive aggressive for a day or two until confronting me, usually with a guilt trip. I've inherited some of her destructive narcissism unknowingly, and so that's a better description of me. Destructively passive aggressive at times. I've heard this from many friends over the years, but never really owned it until my pwBPD who is WAY more passive aggressive than I'll ever be. He'll act a waif until he explodes.

Sigh. 

[Tay25]

I never really thought of the impact it has had on me,thanks for bringing that up. I have felt that for most of my life I matured/ grew up much faster than everyone I know and prided myself on it.

One thing I have noticed that has really damaged me is my mom guilting and shaming me by saying "I thought I did a good job raising you" when I began to smoke weed.

Heh. That sounds way too familiar to me. Both the growing up/maturing quicker and the guilt and shame. In my case it would be something like:

I thought I raised you right, but you've made all these terrible decisions that I don't agree with\

You were so much more clever/smart when you were 18. What happened to you?

Heh. 18, when I listened to her without question and didn't make my own choices, and lied incessantly about everything to protect her from the fact that I was no longer a child?

I was absolutely miserable and could not for the life of me understand what was wrong in the relationship. I just knew I needed out and moved very far away.

Right now I have been making lifestyle changes:

1. Quit smoking marijuana the day I broke up with my BPDex (5 months off now), drink once every 2-3 weeks socially

2. Healthy diet

3. Working out

4. Searching for new job

5. Spending leisure time reading, or doing other productive things rather than watching movies or playing xbox

6. Will be going to support groups soon

Personally:

1. Seeing a therapist

2. Understanding behaviors/thinking patterns that are unhealthy/no longer serve me and ways of changing them

3. Making sense of various aspects of my childhood

4. Not looking for a relationship until I heal my core traumas, feel lovable and have a higher self-esteem/confidence

5. Venting my thoughts through notes and posts on forums

Honestly, that sounds really healthy. Especially the personal changes.

What sort of support groups are you planning to go to?

In terms of relationships, you can actually enter into healing relationships with people who will support you on your journey to heal. I'm not necessary speaking of romantic ones, but it is very possible and helpful to have someone rooting for you.

Best of luck. Please keep posting

I agree the best thing to do with an unhealthy relationship is terminate it, regardless of how hard it may be if its a parent. My father has been an alcoholic his whole life and I no longer have any contact with him for various reasons.

Thanks for your support, it's a long process but I'm doing what I can. I plan to start going to ACOA groups and maybe codependent groups, not sure. That sounds like a good idea but after being with a BPD right now I really just want to fix my issues on my own. I feel it isn't right to be a burden to other people. Thanks for your kind words though I may actually start looking for people who can provide support to me.

[Achaya]

I was very much the caretaker of my mother and she wanted me to help her be my father's caretaker as well. Also, I have uNPDs in my family and my father had PTSD from severe child abuse.

I think that another dimension to look at is: How emotionally available were my parents when I needed them? When I look back on my recent relationship with my BPD partner, the main problem for me was actually the distance she needed. My response to that was to alternately pursue her and then withdraw when she rejected me more emphatically. I see those behaviors as being suspiciously automatic on my part, like I did this before.

[misuniadziubek]

How emotionally available were my parents when I needed them? When I look back on my recent relationship with my BPD partner, the main problem for me was actually the distance she needed. My response to that was to alternately pursue her and then withdraw when she rejected me more emphatically. I see those behaviors as being suspiciously automatic on my part, like I did this before.

Oh dear. That's a huge one. Probably the reason being with my BPD and other crazies (I say that non-offensively, he isn't my first) has been so fulfilling at times is that they are incredibly overly validating in the beginning, especially when painting you white. I was in a long distance relationship prior to the one with my uBPDbf where my ex was only validating in very rare occasions. I realised at some point that this barely grazed the surface of what I needed. Suddenly my pwBPD showed up and showered me with validation and actually sensing when I was upset or uncomfortable. I swallowed it all up whole. It was incredible. I'd NEVER had that before!

I have observed my own pattern of deeply pursuing and then frankly... .punishing... .the other person when they reject me or don't respond as I'd prefer. It happened just last night. I had taken some codeine to deal with pain. Unfortunately it has the side effect of making me more paranoid and insecure than I'd like and I go straight into old patterns. Someone I was texting didn't give me the validation I craved and so I cut them off. This is on the brink of really silly because up to that point the communication had been magnificent, but it didn't take much to jump right back into old thought patterns.