my MIL has BPD

[pulauti]

My wife’s mother (ie. my MIL) most likely has BPD. It is not officially diagnosed however my wife’s sister is a psychologist (PHD level) and believes that is what her mother suffers from.

Her behaviour:

Without getting into details, my MIL’s behaviour for the most part is vile. She gets into fights with every family member and friend she has ever had. She uses email as a communication vehicle to say horrible and mean things to people which she would never say to their faces. These emails are often gut reactions to situations where she feels someone has insulted her, or does not respect her, etc.

She does not listen to anyone, and her behaviour is like a toddler who touches something they’ve been told not to touch.

She can also sometimes be a very warm and caring person. However her negative behaviour FAR outweighs her positive behaviour.

My wife hates her mother’s behaviour and she wishes her father (who she loves very much) would just divorce her mother so she could remain close with her father and then have a very limited and controlled relationship with her mother. I can’t imagine what it was like for my wife to have had this lady as her mother. On the one hand she had a very caring and normal upbringing, however on the other there was a lot of very unnecessary conflict and hardship.

Many people (friends and family) really despise (and I use that word, although it is strong) her. My son is 2.5 years old and already does not like her.

However deep down I think my wife hates her the most of anyone because she had to grow up with her and really feel the impact of her behaviour.

Our situation:

We have two very young children and live in another city about a 5 hour drive away. Fortunately we do not have to see my MIL all that often (every month or so). However tbh I don’t think I would be able to live in the same city as her.

She is very interested in our children’s lives and calls my wife almost daily. I noticed that generally, my wife is usually somewhat rattled from something she said, and after a phone call is distracted. It bothers me, but it’s something I can sort of live with.

What’s more disruptive is when they come to visit. Before we had kids, almost every time they visited the visit would end in a major fight with my wife not speaking to her mother from anywhere from a few days to a few weeks. Then the tensions subsides until the next time they visit.

When they visit, it generally causes stress leading up the visit itself. The actual visit is not pleasant (she does not listen to us, or respect what we say). If you tell her to do something she will do the opposite. And then there is usually a stressful aftermath for a few days.

She guilts us into coming, however the main reason she comes is that my wife loves her father and wants him to be close with our children. They 2 of them are a package deal.

Issue:

We rent an apartment and do not have place for them to stay with us. This means they stay in a hotel or some other option which essentially limits how often and for how long they could visit for.

However, we will soon be moving to a house where this is room in the basement for them to stay. I’m very worried about how long and how often they will be coming for. I have spoken to my wife and she agrees it should be no more than a week at a time. However, I know that they will come and not want to leave to go back home (they are both retired) which will result in big fight each and every time they come. My wife is busy with the kids and lately does not have the strength to fight with her mother, so just lets her have her way.

In any case, a week at a time still seems like too much. I like our life now, and I really don’t need my MIL screwing it up.

I know that a good suggestion is to place boundaries. However, my MIL has a history of not respecting any boundaries what so ever. We can tell her to respect what we say, listen to us, however she will not.

In some ways this is just a train wreck waiting to happen….and I’m not sure how to avoid it.

[claudiaduffy]

Hi, pulauti, and welcome!

I am wondering why your family will be obligated to allow your MIL and FIL to stay at your house, just because there is room they could occupy. They currently use a hotel when they visit; you rightly assume there will be even higher tension and drama if they are in the same home with you for their visits; these two things together would indicate that if you want to stay at the current somewhat-manageable level of tension and drama, that they should continue using a hotel if they are visiting you.

One time when I was very torn up inside about my desire to NOT visit my uBPDmom for Christmas, I was bewailing the situation to an older, wiser friend of mine. She interrupted me and asked, "Whose rule is it that a good daughter must visit her mother for Christmas?" When it came down to it, I couldn't really answer her - because there IS no rule about that, except my own mother's rule, various society rules in various forms other people hold, and then whatever MY rule is. My friend reminded me that I was an adult and did not have to follow my mother's rules, and was allowed to make my own "rules" (though she recommended against it) for my own definition of being a good daughter.

From then on out, my main "rule" has been to make the kinds of boundaries that allow me to have a peaceable relationship with my mom. These boundaries evolve and develop, but currently they include 1. I don't visit her at her home, 2. I call her or accept a phone call from her no more than once a week under normal circumstances, 3. I try to remember to occasionally send her a happy card, small gift, or post a fun video on her Facebook wall - all things that show her I remember her and love her, but also which are low-emotional-cost to me. If I tried following my mother's rules of what a good daughter is, I would become such a ball of stress and anger that I would probably snap and cut her off altogether.

The thing that was most helpful for me, as a grown daughter of a uBPD, was wise and caring friends simply telling me that I was allowed to disappoint my mother and that her anger did not have to make me feel bad; that doing what I needed to do to stay sane did not mean that I was a bad person or a bad daughter. It took a long time, but internalizing that message has been life-changing for me. Does your wife need people encouraging her in this?

[Panda39]

I want to join claudiaduffy pulauti and welcome you too  

I agree with claudiaduffy about those rules we learned growing up they don't always apply or make sense anymore when we grow up.  I've had to let go of my fair share of my mother's "rules" and she isn't BPD.  I think many of us have that inner critic that often unfortunately can be our own mother's voices.

Those rules can sometimes be part of what we around here call "FOG" Fear-Obligation-Guilt or emotional blackmail.  One of the best things to fight the FOG is boundaries.  

You don't want the in-laws to stay in your home tell them that with two kids company staying in your home is just to stressful that your family will need some down time and they should plan to stay in a hotel... .So I can hear you from wherever you are thinking no way that won't work she'll make my wife and I miserable    The thing is either you set the boundary and hear her whine about it until she goes to the hotel that night or you don't set the boundary and you have her complaining about anything and everything 24/7 while she's staying at your house  .

Setting boundaries and sticking with them is an important tool.  

Imagine a 3 year old in the store that wants candy, the parent says no because candy is not good for the child (boundary), the child doesn't like the boundary and begins to whine, the whining doesn't work the parent reinforces the boundary and says no again, the child then escalates to screaming.  If the parent continues to reinforce the boundary the child will get the message and eventually stop asking for the candy (the desired behavior).  If the parent doesn't reinforce the boundary and gives into the screaming what is the message the child gets?  If I scream loud enough long enough I will get what I want. So sticking with the boundary is key, also don't be surprised if she periodically tests that boundary again.

Above is something I posted in another thread.  I bet this is exactly what you do with your kids and that is also what you have to do with your MIL.

So you tell the MIL you prefer her to stay in a hotel and she hypothetically says... .

"I want to stay at your house I'm your mother, I'm family what will everyone think if your father and I have to stay at a hotel? That's so mean maybe I just won't come!"

Do you see the FOG?

Fear she won't come or

Fear she will say how poorly she was treated even though not true

You are Obligated  to let her stay with you because you have the room or

You are Obligated to let her stay simply because she is your MIL

Guilt for her perception that you are mean, bad, uncaring, ungrateful children or

Guilt because she's family and if she was anyone else you'd let her stay

It's hard to ignore all of that kind of pressure but that's exactly what you need to do. You need to repeat the boundary to her and stick to it.  If you don't set the boundary now she could be staying at your house for many years to come.  Get her in the hotel habit from the get go. 

Additional information on FOG

https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

Additional information on Boundaries

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a120.htm

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

I'm also going to add information on SET which is a communication tool that can help you more effectively get your message across.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a104.htm

I hope the above information is helpful and I'm really glad you've joined us.  If your wife is interested she might want to come post too.  My SO (Significant Other) and I both come here and have learned a lot in terms of how to deal with his uBPDxw (undiagnosed BPD ex-wife).  We have a common language because of coming here.

Good Luck with the MIL

Panda39

[pulauti]

Thanks Claudiaduffy and panda39. I appreciate your suggestions of establishing boundaries.

The problem is that even when my MIL has visited but stayed at a hotel, her visit has often resulted in a major fight my wife and MIL. Its happened a few times that I’ve woken up in the morning and my MIL is in the house fighting with my wife and her visit is cut short and she just hops in to the car and my FIL drives her home.

Now that she will soon be staying with us, it’s just more time exposure to her and greater likelihood a fight will erupt. The only good thing is that I can just throw her out of the house (like on the Fresh Prince tv show)

The problem with asking her to stay in a hotel is the following:

1) she will be offended because she comes from a culture where family is extremely important in addition to being very welcoming and accommodating. She will be extremely insulted.

2) my parents and other family are also out of town and my wife and I have no issues letting them stay in our home. She will see this double standard as extremely offensive.

In the past, when my MIL has felt offended, all hell breaks loose from her email inbox. She will send nasty emails to my parents, siblings, whoever. It’s her way of showing she is offended, and also a way of punishing me or my wife by trying to damage the relationships that we have with others. This seemingly makes no sense but she’s done it in the past several times.

So the situation we have is that it’s hard to impose boundaries because my MIL has ammunition (emailing people very nasty things) to get back at us with. She’s like a tinder box which will explode with the smallest spark.

If it were up to me, I’d disown my MIL. But it’s my wife’s mother, not mine. So I’m sort of limited what I can do. I feel the present situation is one in which my wife is busy with the kids and home and has no energy to “manage” her mother. So for the few days a month we see her, it’s just easier to let her get away with really bad behaviour.

But this is bad and not sustainable. Is the only real solution for my wife and I to get professional counselling on how to deal with this?

[claudiaduffy]

So the situation we have is that it’s hard to impose boundaries because my MIL has ammunition (emailing people very nasty things) to get back at us with. She’s like a tinder box which will explode with the smallest spark.

Exactly. And that makes it a difficult choice for you; you and your wife together must decide what you really really want (sorry, I'm hearing the Spice Girls song in my head now, haha!) in this situation. Do you want to protect the peace of your home and the emotional wellness of your living space and simultaneously learn to "live above" (that's not really what it is, but it's a starting place) your MIL's attacks - so that the ammunition she has actually cannot hurt you so much? Or do you want to put up with the terrorizing your MIL does and leave the power in her hands; counting her exaggerated and nasty words to others as attacks that somehow wound you more than putting up with her in your home?

If it were up to me, I’d disown my MIL. But it’s my wife’s mother, not mine. So I’m sort of limited what I can do. I feel the present situation is one in which my wife is busy with the kids and home and has no energy to “manage” her mother. So for the few days a month we see her, it’s just easier to let her get away with really bad behaviour.

Weariness and the path of least resistance really are giant motivators. I well understand this and don't judge anyone for it.

But this is bad and not sustainable. Is the only real solution for my wife and I to get professional counselling on how to deal with this?

I don't know that it's the only solution but it is certainly a good one, and one that I heartily recommend - especially for your wife, who is struggling with Fear/Obligation/Guilt in a way that you yourself witness but don't really experience yourself. If your wife is anything like many of us, she really needs to hear - from a professional who can have no vested interest in the outcome - some hard and helpful truths about the emotional abuse her mother is visiting upon her.

IF YOU DO SEE A COUNSELOR, I would heartily recommend searching for one who has experience with personality disorders and BPD specifically. I have been to counselors who could only give me elementary level help with my uBPDmom and uBPDmil because they just had no idea really what I was up against. It is worth it searching for someone who really truly understands that normal peacekeeping methods just flat out don't work with pwBPD.