About to Divorce. Have small child

[pxs]

Hello All,

I posted here a almost two years ago. Between my own therapy, learning how to communicate with BPD wife, and time... .things got better.

But then they got worse.

Long story short, I found real evidence my wife was/is cheating on me.

We talked about it, but she denies it. It is surreal how strongly she will deny it.

Regardless,  she said she wanted to get therapy. I said unless there was truth, I would have no way of believing that she really wanted to change and said "truth or divorce".  Probably a mistake. I have mentioned DBT to her, but don't really know if it is more than noise.

And here we are talking about divorce. She of course wants everything, sole custody, child support, house, alimony.

I would give up everything for sole custody. 


What strategies are there to help us negotiate the best divorce. I'm OK with alimony for some time. I believe our 4 year old would be better off with me, but would probably be OK between us. I don't think he'll be OK just with her.

Thanks for any help.

pxs

[momtara]

You will get lots of good advice here. Many people here have felt bad for their exes and been too trusting, and gotten screwed. Early orders and situations set a precedent. She may shock you and ask for sole custody. You will need to be firm as well, so that a good compromise or decision comes, not something where you feel bad and give up too much custody.

So I'd start from a place of asking for more than you really want. If you really think she can be cooperative, maybe you can do a collaborative divorce where all attorneys are in the room working in all of your best interests. Not always possible though.

I know you would give up everything for custody, but don't say that, as she/her lawyer will use that to her advantage. Your lawyer may have a way to make her think it's her idea.

But... .everything she's saying may just be talk. Is she really going to file? Or just wants to push you to do it?

Don't beat yourself up over your ultimatum. It was a normal thing to say.

Do you still think there's hope for your marriage? Or are you about ready for divorce? If you think you might get back together, you may negotiate more weakly - if you think you'll want to try therapy once before filing, you might want to see if she'll go for that. But if things are bad, ok then.

Anyway, make sure you are documenting the reasons you should have custody (who stays home with your child when sick, who picks him up, who helps with homework, takes him to doc... .if she is hurtful in some way, even keeping a journal may help.)

Good luck!

[scraps66]

From my own experience, have had 50/50 and S8 and S10, and I started the process when our kids were 3 and 7, so similar.  I would have from the start demanded full custody.  Though it may not have seemed warranted at the time, it would have forced the court to get everything out on the table.  Primarily ex's mental health.  I'm fairly certain my ex "agreed" with 50/50 knowing full well she would operate as if she had primary custody.  It has been a rollercoaster ride ever since and it could have been a lot better.  Everything would have been put into clearer perspective with me asking for full custody.  Now, at times, it looks like I'm the jerk and being petty for the things I'm asking for and the things I bring up because the case has endured so long.  This has also been aided by the incompetence of the system.

To answer your question, you will need to find a good, proactive attorney.  This takes TIME.  Do research online, talk to other people, but best idea is to go to the courthouse and see the lawyers in action.  Then pick a couple to talk to.  It is not necessary to find an attorney that knows BP, but one that knows high conflict divorce.  I've been through three attorneys and one of them I am on my second try with.  It really pays off in the long term to find yourself the "right" attorney. 

[livednlearned]

Hi pxs,

I'm sorry to hear the bad news, and that you are being denied even the truth -- it's hard to get closure and move on without something that simple, but it can be so hard to get from someone with BPD.

The first thing to do is get a copy of Splitting: Protecting Yourself from Divorcing a NPD/BPD Spouse by Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger. You can also check out materials on Bill Eddy's website: www.highconflictinstitute.com.

We also have a lot of helpful materials on the Successful Sharing Parenting lessons on the Coparenting board.

Be very careful about negotiating with your wife -- this is not something people with BPD do. At all, in my experience. She is emotionally very young, and will not make decisions that are good for herself, nor good for the kids. You have to begin thinking of yourself as the lone adult, and find other others to discuss the divorce with.

Something many of us do during the divorce process is to also negotiate with ourselves, even before we have all of the information. We highly recommend consulting with 2 maybe even 3 lawyers to ask them about strategy and see what they suggest. Each lawyer will recommend a different approach. And you need to find out, in a very baseline way, what the laws are and what is possible or not possible. For example, if you live in a 50/50 default state, than you may be in a progressive state that treats dads like capable parents.

Divorce is also a triggering event, and your ex is likely to dysregulate (irrationally, since her actions may triggered the divorce, but even so), and this is likely to lead to parental alienation. Even mild alienation is difficult for kids (and for us). If you can, try to get the kids into therapy now, since it's likely that your ex will either control this process or block it once divorce is final, perhaps even during the divorce process. Once it takes root, it can spread like wildfire. Look at Lessons 5 and 6 on the Coparenting board for lots of resources on alienation (and raising emotionally resilient kids).

Last, be wary that you may self-sabotage yourself. "I would give up everything for sole custody" is not wise. I said the same thing walking into mediation and my L tried her hardest to prevent me from giving my ex the house. I just wanted to be done. Giving him the house led to 3 motions for contempt, so back to court, spending money, hiring a real estate attorney, just to give him the house. I did not anticipate the number of times we would be back in court litigating things that we had agreed to, all thanks to BPD.

Also, ethically (in the legal sense of the word), you can not barter the kids (custody) for money (house, assets, etc.)

Keep posting and let us know how you're doing. These are not easy divorces and we're here for you.

LnL

[ForeverDad]

I'm limited on time right now but of primary importance for you to accept now is this concept:

You cannot be agreeable, constructive, compliant, nice, giving, etc (otherwise wonderful qualities) when you are dealing with someone who is almost certain to be oppositional, obstructive, non-compliant, sabotaging, taking, etc.

Can you handle that?  Can you see that firm boundaries are essential?  Can you see that your being overly nice will not be reciprocated with similar niceness?  Can you see the wisdom in holding fast to what you know is best for your child despite all the predictable protests, sabotage, obstructions, manipulations, distortions and guilting from your entitled ex-spouse?

Frankly, you will get better results from court than from your entitled spouse.  Maybe not a lot better at first, but at least better.

Court will almost surely want the divorce process to start with mediation.  So yes, do try mediation but understand that it almost always fails miserably early in the divorce process.  Surprisingly, many of our cases do reach a settlement - but only later, much later, in the process, usually just before a major hearing or trial when the ex is finally beginning to realize there are No Other Alternatives to control, delay or obstruct.  Sooner than that and any settlement will be far too unreasonable and unfair to you and the children.

So, can you see that being 'reasonable' and 'cooperative' would weaken any newfound firm boundaries you're building?

[ForeverDad]

Her first overreaction to divorce is likely to be to try to make you look worse than her.  Translation: vicious and horrendous allegations of spousal DV, child abuse, child neglect, child endangerment, drug additions, assorted behavioral addictions or perversions, etc.  All for your stbEx to posture as a victim or target and to posture as the better parent.  Be aware.  Beware.  Prepare.  Don't think it can't happen to you.  It can.  For too many, it does.  Being innocent is no protection from arrest.  So do your best to have protections in place to minimize that risk.

The first skirmish in the courtroom itself will be the Temporary Order - unless she's already filed for a restraining or protection order.  Often the court will default to The Mother.  This will especially be so if you work and she doesn't, that would be a history of majority parenting.  Courts don't want to 'upset the children' by changing the parenting patterns too much.  (I asked my lawyer, What if NOT changing the parenting patterns would be upsetting to the child?)  So your goal in the initial temp order - at high risk not to be "temporary" - is to get the very best responsibility (custody) and parenting (schedule) that you can get.  Beware of a lawyer telling you not to press your case and they it will get fixed later.  I found out that it is (1) very hard to change a temporary order and (2) the divorce process and corresponding temp order takes longer, often 1 or 2 years, sometimes even longer.

[pxs]

Thanks everyone.

Your support is amazing.

Your reports are terrifying.

I have contacted a lawyer, he specializes in collaborative law and believes it is the way to go. In his opinion working with high conflict people, the hard part is getting the BPD to want to go collaborative, but once in, it should work (has worked).

He did suggest, I need to make her want what I want. But how? I don't ever know how she is thinking.

What I would like is :

I keep the house and child. She gets alimony and moves out.  My lawyer says sole custody will be very hard to get, so I imagine we would share custody.

She would get from this something she always claims she wants: more freedom.  Early on discussing divorce with her I reiterated her repeated story of how she always felt chained for the last 20 years: first from the birth of her first child. Then when he was 12, from her marriage to me, and then chained to myself and our son born 4 years ago. If I had sole or primary custody she would have the freedom to do what she wants.

Is it possible to get her to want this? Or am I trying to hard to believe she can be rational?

Finally, is collaborative a good way to go? Or should I skip that step and go straight to court.

I do have video of her smoking pot (a lot). This is during the day when she is taking care of our son. You can't see him but you can hear him. Will this give me any advantage? My lawyer is somewhat doubtful it has any value. I have audio of her discussing her tryst with her lover, but it has no time stamp and the quality is bad. I also don't know if this has any value. My lawyer again seems to think, in a no fault state affairs really mean nothing. My therapist on the other hand thinks but the pot and the affair may be used to help decide who is the better parent.


She is a stay at home mom, but I honestly believe I interact with him more. On weekends its he and I that do events together, ride bikes, go to park, airshow, hike dog etc... .She never participates but uses the time to do other things.

My wife can be very charming, and comes across great. These attributes will work against me (I believe).

She also does love our son.

I live in NY if that makes any difference. We have 4 family judges in our county, and per my lawyer, 1 would be great, 1 OK, the other no help at all. But its a crap shoot which judge you get. This makes me think collaborative might be a better approach.

Also, while wading through my pain,  I realize I have to get my co-dependency issues ironed out. I care too much for her, and this (as one of you alluded to) is going to screw up my negotiation.

Thanks for your help.

[scraps66]

I don't know much about a collaborative divorce, but I know BP and collaborate are two terms that typically do not go together.  This attorney may see dollar sings if he is saying that the collaborative process is the way to go. 

Also, about the "I would give up everything for sole custody."  What would be wrong with getting primary custody and splitting everything equitably.  The court does not mix custody with equitable distribution.  Amazing that one isn't used to influence the other, but that's the case.  So don't go cutting yourself short financially in exchange for sole custody.   

[ForeverDad]

What I would like is :

I keep the house and child. She gets alimony and moves out.  My lawyer says sole custody will be very hard to get, so I imagine we would share custody.

She would get from this something she always claims she wants: more freedom.  Early on discussing divorce with her I reiterated her repeated story of how she always felt chained for the last 20 years: first from the birth of her first child. Then when he was 12, from her marriage to me, and then chained to myself and our son born 4 years ago. If I had sole or primary custody she would have the freedom to do what she wants.

Is it possible to get her to want this? Or am I trying to hard to believe she can be rational?

Finally, is collaborative a good way to go? Or should I skip that step and go straight to court?

Hmm, most often the parents who arrive here and become members are desperately trying to find a way to deal with an aggressive, controlling, obstructive, oppositional, demanding, unreasonable spouse.  That generally nixes collaborative divorce.  And though our cases usually do settle eventually, it's only near the end of the divorce process, often a year or two down the road, before we can reach the least unfair terms.  Early in the process they're simply too entitled, they want 99% if not 100% of everything: custody, parenting schedule, assets, child support, alimony, etc.  Oh, but not the debts or obligations.

However, there are a few cases that come along where the spouse (more often the male) would rather have adult relationships than parenting relationships.  Those are the exception around here.  (I guess we get the seekers who are really desperate for help?)  So could your spouse be in that mindset?  Maybe, maybe not.  She may claim she doesn't want to parent but you may still have a horrendous fight on your hands if you step forward and respond, "Okay, I'll parent, have a nice life."  She may not really want to parent that much but still desperately want to appear to others as Mother of the Year (MOTY).

So while she's not opening obstructive and demanding to be in charge of parenting, she could swoop in and demand it once the End of the marriage becomes apparent.  Does she try to hide her poor or lax parenting behaviors inside the home and yet give a lot of attention to a Public Mask of Seeming Normalcy?

You would know the specifics about her, we only know typical patterns.  What do you think?

[pxs]

OK,

So, I just talked with another lawyer. Someone I've known for some time and respect quite a bit. He also has been through his own divorce.

He interestingly had this to say:

1) Divorce will not solve your problems with your wife. They will exist as long as shes around.

2) No matter the outcome, divorce will mean less time with your son.

3) In NY it is almost guaranteed that she will be primary custodian.

4) Divorce will mean less income and bitterness knowing your money is being spent not on your son but on your ex wife.

To that he added: Consider making the mental shift of what your marriage means: It is just a business relationship. A way to keep your house afloat and provide for your family. Get your needs met anyway you can AND have more control of your son and of your wifes influence on your son. Also he said, enjoy even love the parts of your wife you can. It isn't perfect or desire-able but many many people have successfully navigated crappy marriages. Including marriages with serial infidelity.

Has anyone gone this route? Is it possible to do this and stay sane?

[enlighten me]

The most important thing to do is disconnect your head from your heart. So many of us here were taken to the cleaners because we didnt want to hurt them A fair offer isnt hurting it is just a fair offer. A good lawyer is a great way of disconecting you emotionally from deciscions.

You will get all sorts of tactics from viscious lies to her being sweet then her breaking down, her wanting to give it another go etc etc. You may not know if your coming and going and will doubt yourself. This is why its important to form a plan and stick to it. Decide exactly what you want and what your willing to give up.

A word of warning dont use anything she said as part of your case. My ex wife told me she had been diagnosed with bi polar and was on anti depressants. I used this to try and prevent her moving my sons away. It was a total lie and made me look desperate.

[livednlearned]

Hi pxs,

All due respect to lawyer #1: collaborative divorce is a big kaching for them, especially with a high-conflict personality.

The way it works is that both lawyers sign a contractual agreement that they will not litigate. That means you HAVE to come to an agreement. If you don't, the lawyers are out. And then, because your BPD wife is unreasonable and won't agree and is entitled and demanding, and you don't want to be thrown bones, you have to go find a whole new set of lawyers, this time not collaborative lawyers, and start again.

Except now, your wife knows ALL of your terms, your moves, your negotiations, whether you are bluffing or not. Collaborative divorce may work for low-conflict couples. Unless you have money to burn, or are looking for a kick in the head from both lawyers, collaborative divorce is a big risk.

About lawyer #2: this does not sound like someone who understands BPD. You're in this for the long game, not the short game. Lawyers who don't understand BPD will often focus on the short-game.

Primary custody is small potatoes because typically you also have joint legal custody. The old days of sole custody type of terms is yesterday's language. Nowadays, courts like to see parents work things out, and someone ends up with primary. But primary doesn't mean that much, except that one parent feels like it does.

I had primary custody, but any major decisions fell under the joint legal custody we both shared.

So sure, your wife will get primary custody. You will both probably get joint legal. Then there is visitation to figure. And yes, you will see less of your child. Remember, though, that this is about giving your child a break from the conflict -- you can't provide that while living with her. And parental alienation happens even when parents are living together. However, you can't offset the PA while you're living in the home because she will undermine you.

It isn't easy to find a lawyer who gets the whole picture. And they aren't genuinely motivated to get it -- they plenty happy being paid even while making mistakes.

Also, I realized we aren't doing a good job helping you envision life post-divorce. It does get better. Many of us are still here because we made mistakes when we started, and really want to help others avoid making those mistakes. When you're still in the marriage, it's hard to really get your whole head around the situation.

I do hope you feel that people genuinely care, and have been in your shoes, and want to spare you some of the mistakes we made. All in all, divorce was a tremendous bump in qualify of life for me and my son. I hope the same will be true for you and yours.

[GaGrl]

That was the route my DH took, "for the children... .to protect the children." His ex (uNPD/BPD) was blatantly and consistently unfaithful from 18 months into the marriage. She moved out after 19 years of marriage but came and went as she pleased, no desire for a divorce unless he initiated. The children were exposed to it when DH was posted elsewhere as an Army officer (several times she refused to go with him).

When DH and I reconnected (we were teen friends), he had been officially married for 33 years. He had stress related high blood pressure, diverticulitis, and did not date due to herpes given to him in Year 1 of the marriage. He had obvious but undiagnosed PTSD -he kept it all stuffed and put on a great show.

The divorce took 9-10 months and was difficult even with no shared ownership of houses and all children well over 21. She tried for everything she could get and only backed off when told it would go to court - by then, she owned a massage parlor (ahem!) And wanted no part of court or anyone examining her "business." (Add embarrassment and fear of having to bail her out of jail to DH's stress.)

So... .divorce and remarriage, and DH is a different man... .all his friends and family remark on the change.

So... .Yes, you will always be connected to her in some way. We share children and a grandchild, BUT she is 1500 miles away and not 2 miles down the road.

The big question I would ask is how you envision yourself after 33 years of marriage to this woman?

[ForeverDad]

Primary custody is small potatoes because typically you also have joint legal custody. The old days of sole custody type of terms is yesterday's language. Nowadays, courts like to see parents work things out, and someone ends up with primary. But primary doesn't mean that much, except that one parent feels like it does.

I had primary custody, but any major decisions fell under the joint legal custody we both shared.

So sure, your wife will get primary custody. You will both probably get joint legal. Then there is visitation to figure. And yes, you will see less of your child. Remember, though, that this is about giving your child a break from the conflict -- you can't provide that while living with her. And parental alienation happens even when parents are living together. However, you can't offset the PA while you're living in the home because she will undermine you.

LnL says it so well.  Legal and Physical are handled separately to a certain extent.  Legal custody is usually joint, at least to start.  Physical custody, the parenting schedule, is more difficult for fathers to obtain.  Courts still lean toward alternate weekends and an overnight in between for fathers but some states are starting to lean toward equal time.  (The deciding factor at the start of my case was our work schedules, my ex worked less and so she got majority time.  I believe that if we worked equal hours then they would have found another way to favor her.)  I recall when I got legal custody 3 years after the final decree, the court didn't want to give me any more time than the equal time I already had.  (That was so she could have child support.)  It took almost 3 more years before I could convince the court that me having majority time really was best for our son. 

When you have a separate home, your court will order how much time your children will be with you.  If you can convince the court you need more time due to her uncooperative and obstructive actions, then you may get more, if not now, then later on.  Whatever time the children have together with you in a calm, stable and loving home is a wonderful benefit for them.

I can't remember where I found this quote, but I bought the book to find out precisely where in the book the quote was... .

Living in a calm and stable home will give them a better example of normalcy for their own future relationships.  So many of us felt we had to stay in a marriage no matter what but sometimes, in cases like ours, that's just not the right thing to do.  Nearly 30 years ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  You don't have to feel guilty about ending the dysfunction.  Taking action will enable your lives, or at least a part of your lives, to be spent be in a calm, stable environment - your home, wherever that is - away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.

[pxs]

Thanks again,

I go from OK, to near panic not knowing how the future will unfold, and I appreciate immensely your support.

Based on what I'm hearing, it sounds like divorce will be best done through traditional litigation. To that end, are there any resources that would point me to the best possible lawyer?

Surely other men have been through this in my county, is there a list of lawyers that were more or less successful?

@Gagri. Thank you for responding with regards to the staying route. Your question is valid: where will I be after 33 years marriage. Where will my son be?

I ponder this because we are both older. I am 51, she is 46. We had our child late in life (my first, her second). He is 4. The two questions I ask myself is: How long can her behavior last? How long do I have left?

The answers are of course: don't know, don't know.  But do BPDs mellow? Can I exercise enough mindfulness to find contentment regardless of her? Can I find enough balance to keep my child safe regardless of her?

I will say this - she no longer rages - we seem to have learned how to stop that (thanks to this site and my therapist). She is not mean to me. What she is is selfish, controlling and distant. But these cycle up and down. She is also unfaithful and dishonest and these are the pills I haven't learned to swallow. Now that I've exposed her to her cheating and discussed divorce she also is splitting which hasn't happened in a long while.

As it stands, I'm pondering very hard what lawyer #2 said: "stay". But really don't think I can go that route. I have some thinking to do.

Our timing was unfortunate. I confronted her when we had 4 weeks of family obligations coming up. BTW, I didn't intend to confront her then, but apparently I couldn't keep it down. However,  we agreed to be civil until the obligations were up. I have some time.

OK, its 4 in the morning, I have to try to sleep.

[livednlearned]

Hi pxs,

Our kids end up inheriting psychologically whatever it is that we fail to resolve. So, if you tolerate a loveless marriage, chances are your son will too. We can't teach our kids what we ourselves haven't figured out. When it comes to staying or leaving, that is the only truth. Your son's emotional and psychological issues will probably manifest by the time he is 8 (3rd grade). You'll start to see behaviors that exist in the home start to manifest in his friendships. Only if you're aware of your own emotional and psychological patterns in the home will you recognize them as such. It's really heartbreaking to see these traits show up in our kids.  :'(

Emotional health -- of any kind -- was very threatening to my ex, and it was not possible for me to parent my son in a way where he could grow up to be healthy. Also, S13 endured bullying daily in the home, and no surprise, he endured bullying at school. It wasn't until I asserted myself that he saw how that is modeled and could fold it into his psyche for himself. You cannot tell your child to behave different than the people in the home. You have to embody those behaviors.

I do believe there are some situations where you can teach emotional resilience to a child while living in a mentally ill marriage. Although now that I'm on the outside looking in, I can't imagine doing this without my ex receiving a formal diagnosis of BPD, and accepting it, and agreeing to therapy.

Bill Eddy says there are three PD types:

generally cooperative

not cooperative, not dangerous

not cooperative, dangerous

For those of us with the third, "not cooperative, dangerous," it's not safe to raise a child in a home like that. These are people who make false allegations of DV, who engage in DV, or child abuse, substance abuse.

If your wife is generally cooperative (sounds like she might be), you may have a difficult divorce, but not a high-conflict one like some of us experience. The tough part will be focusing on the long-game and recognizing her dysregulations as such, and keep moving ahead, ignoring them or finding a route around them if need be. This is mainly about you sticking to your resolve, and being assertive.

When you're looking for a lawyer, keep this article in mind -- it's written by lawyers for lawyers -- because this will tell you if you're talking to someone who understands PD behavior: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=270440.msg12566140#msg12566140

[GaGrl]

My stepchildren are all much healthier than they would have been without my DH in the house. That being said, as lnl points out, they do indeed have some serious emotional issues that are playing out in their current (or lack of) relationships. It is painful for me, a step mom, to watch. Fortunately, 2 of 3 are close to me and speak openly. The other is the ex's adopted niece, who was brought to the U.S. at age 14, and she has checked out unless she needs money.

We were in our 50s when we married and were able to show our children a healthy marriage and home life. They all state now they want what DH and Gagrl have. It's never too late for influence.

[ForeverDad]

Do BPDs mellow with time?  There's no real documentation for that, so far as I know.  However, that could be the impression for some if the children are grown and away and so the triggers are encountered less?

Over on the Coping and Healing from a BPD Parent, Sibling, or Inlaw board, you will find that virtually everyone reports no real 'automatic' improvement over time.

[momtara]

You asked whether it is possible to stay together in this way.

I think the answer is yes, in the short term. And it may be better for divorce preparations etc. I think what many are saying is that long-term, you don't want to sign up for a life of being miserable.

As LnL said, many of us are here because we made mistakes. If you can reasonably (this is a big if) stay together long enough to figure out your strategy, and you can keep the environment healthy for your small son, then see if you can do it for a while. Perhaps your fears will be fewer when he's a bit older and you can leave more reasonably. Or perhaps you will be better prepared to leave. Obviously if she threatens you or son or makes up false claims, you can't stay, but if you can do it and see what happens, then it's a possibility.

Your lawyer knows that divorce is hell, and post-divorce isn't necessarily a joy right away. But staying with someone who makes you miserable is not good either.

[pxs]

Thanks again for the advice, especially about staying and strategizing.

I was wondering about establishing a strategy and executing that, to facilitate the divorce. For instance, I might be able to work with my employer so I could work from home 2 days a week. Would this help with custody? If I also meticulously documented any bad parenting, would that help me with the divorce.  What are things that could help me?  The first lawyer I met surprised me when he said the affair means little or nothing to the court. They are a dime a dozen. He also said the video of the pot wouldnt really help much: Why did I allow it to go on so long? What if she stops?

I will talk to a litigation laywer next. See what he says.

I feel so trapped and powerless, it seems the courts are rigged in her favor.

[bravhart1]

I'm kind of thinking that if given the opportunity my DH would choose the other route.

He was very much in your same situation. He would have gotten her to "recommit to the relationship", convinced her to get a J.O.B.   and figured out how to re schedule his own work time to make him the primary parent over time ( say six to nine months). Then he would have probably convinced her to get some diagnosis and some treatment and documented the heck out of all her crazy stuff.

Then having all his ducks in a row, drop kick her out. She would have, and has done MUCH worse to him.

You don't know the lengths she will go to, to win the fight over HER child, HER entitlement to his income and her victim hood. My DH never thought she would do some of the stuff she did and he was afraid to leave her for YEARS!

But she saw the writing on the wall, and did all that stuff and more. She set him up to look like a drunk, an abusive bf and a cheater. All the things SHE is. The truth is out, but like your ex she shows up very well in initial meetings, even our child's T tells us now that she was fooled for the first nine months in. So having said all that, it took MUCH longer to get courts to see her problems. They do now and she has been diagnosed by her court appointed T, but she is still a major pain in the neck for our daily lives. Four years later and here I sit, middle of the day on this board to try to keep my sanity.

Get out, but plan it more carefully. The most important thing is to establish yourself as your sons primary care giver. And about giving up all the monetary stuff to get him... .don't say that to anyone in the court system. For some reason they misinterpret this kind of statement that your child is nothing more than a "thing" to be bought and sold. It doesn't sit well with them. Money and custody are separate and never the two shall meet. You are going to pay out plenty my friend, don't worry about that!

[livednlearned]

Thanks again for the advice, especially about staying and strategizing.

I was wondering about establishing a strategy and executing that, to facilitate the divorce. For instance, I might be able to work with my employer so I could work from home 2 days a week. Would this help with custody? If I also meticulously documented any bad parenting, would that help me with the divorce.  What are things that could help me?  The first lawyer I met surprised me when he said the affair means little or nothing to the court. They are a dime a dozen. He also said the video of the pot wouldnt really help much: Why did I allow it to go on so long? What if she stops?

I will talk to a litigation laywer next. See what he says.

I feel so trapped and powerless, it seems the courts are rigged in her favor.

Yes, document her parenting behavior. I do think there is bias in the court system. I also think too many men don't ask for primary physical custody. Also, in our cases, often we do not reach our goals during the first go-around. Once you start documenting her behavior, and court gets involved, and she doesn't comply and doesn't get better, then things start to level out. In general -- a really bad lawyer or messed up CE can obviously ruin things no matter how fair the court is.

Courts care about behaviors that affect the kids, they really don't care about adult behaviors toward each other. Although, over time, my judge did see the whole picture, all of the behavior, from N/BPDx toward me as well and that added up. Honestly, I think what helped was that I became very assertive. Not aggressive, just assertive. I never once sent a nasty email to N/BPDx, although he sent over 10K to me, 3/4 of them were just one word or another, like "whore" "gold digger" or whatevs. I kept focusing on what was best for S13 and never wavered and never got discouraged. It took me a couple of years to reach my goal of sole custody, and it was worth it to persevere as awful and painful and expensive as it was.