values, boundaries, and me

[once removed]

increasingly, and largely as a result of this board, my thought process goes from a mid point, forward, then backward, then forward and it looks something like this:

"boundaries and values ought to be about as black and white as you can make them. that means theyre clearly defined."

"sure, but sometimes boundaries and values do need to bend. you appreciate a compromise dont you?"

"isnt compromising your values a significant theme to your relationship history?"

"it is. ive used poor judgment, though ive made a lot of improvement too. compromising and (not necessarily the same as) being willing to bend my values or boundaries IS a value of mine. thats not the same thing as a steady erosion of any of them. im confident in my better judgment now. i think it will produce positive results. but i should accept that i may fail, too. im (mostly) no longer afraid of that anymore."

anybody relate?

[Lucky Jim]

Hey once removed, You seem to be grouping values and boundaries together, yet I see them as separate, but related, concepts.  In other words, I think they have different functions.  For example, I might have a value that says people should be kind and considerate to others.  Yet I might have a boundary that says I will not tolerate any physical abuse.  In this example, the boundary protects me, in accordance with my values.  Does this make sense?

LuckyJim

[Sunfl0wer]

I am finding myself confused about this too.

I am especially confused as I have seen some recent posts about abuse.

Some people define abuse differently.

And then yes, there is grey.

There was a time my ex was being emotionally abused by his exW and D was a pawn, he threw a plate and broke it. 

So yes, I suppose that is violent.  It did scare me.  I don't want him to do it again.

I did address it.  Not in the moment.  In the moment I showed understanding and compassion and helped soothe him.  Later on I stated that I did feel he had control over that behavior.  He would not do that at work, therefore I felt he made a decision to loose his temper in front of me.  While I know it was frustrating and he needed a vent.  I expect next time he go outside away from other and throw a plate.  Not where he will scare me.  He agreed.

So maybe that is what you call flexible?

So my value: violence is not ok.  You can be pissed, express it outwardly, however, it should not be done impulsively without consideration.

Boundary: idk

[DearBFF]

I don't know if this makes sense, but I suppose the way I think about it is that VALUES are about how you want to treat other people, and BOUNDARIES are how you want to be treated by other people.

For instance in Sunfl0wer's example:

VALUE: Violence is not ok... .I do not wish to treat people in a violent manner.

(Everyone will have their own definition of violence and yours may be different than someone else's.  Sometimes you may realize that you did something that went against your values, so then you examine the situation, forgive yourself, ask forgiveness from the other person, and then move on with the understanding that you are only human and will inevitably make mistakes.)

BOUNDARY: I do not wish violence to happen in my presence.

(Again, everyone will have a different definition... .there should also be a caveat explaining what you will do when it does happen in your presence such as making it known you do not wish for it to continue, saying you will leave if it does, and then following through by doing so if it does not stop.)

I use the word wish simply because while we all have wishes about our own and other people's behaviors, we cannot control behavior of others and sometimes we ourselves slip.  So in this way we wish not to act in a certain way or have someone act towards us in a certain way; to me it just seems softer than I WILL NOT, because inevitably it will happen it's just what you do once it does.   

[fromheeltoheal]

For me it's about staying centered.  When I put too much emphasis on external validation, People Please, act out of fear, run too fast, run myself down to exhaustion, you name it, any of those can knock me off my center, and although I'm getting better at it I still suck at it at times, and I've spent probably most of my adult life off my center.

So centered.  Staying calm, boundaries intact, values clear, centered, it's easy to notice when someone crosses those boundaries or when I'm acting inconsistently with my values, so it's easy to correct.  The challenge is staying in that place, since everyone's different, all of my relationships have different flavors, and life tends to present us with challenges.  In fact the folks I admire most are those who can stay centered in the face of adversity; learning from these people is valuable.

Sidebar: speaking of boundaries, one thing I'm extremely good at is removing people from my life; cross my boundaries when I'm struggling and don't have the wherewithal to defend them, like the last couple of years as I've been recovering from borderline bullsht and PTSD, then you will be removed from my life immediately and permanently, which is an overreaction and may not be the best course, some people gotta go no question, but with others I'm working on staying in the fire with them, addressing conflicts, asking for what I want, enforcing boundaries.  And of course it's easier with people who have never crossed them, once we train people it's OK to sht on us they tend to continue doing it, so there are holes I'm digging out of with people lately, not pretty and not fun, but I'm considering it practice and I'm getting better.  And one bonus is I get some respect when I do that.  Go figure.  It's a brand new world.

[once removed]

thanks all. i am grouping them a bit, and there are key differences. boundaries require a consistent reaction as a result of them being busted. to be clearer, im primarily grouping them in the sense that i think bending of both may be required of us, and that values inform boundaries. both are deeply personal. in terms of the grey areas, i think "flexible" is a very good word for it. humans make mistakes. if the shoe were on the other foot, id want an opportunity to prove i respected my partners boundaries if i busted them. such a chance ought to be given. i think that definition of "flexible" is a good one, in that sense; it makes room for human error, but it insists upon itself as a boundary, and it observes the other persons future actions.

staying centered is another good way to look at it. im still stuck at times too. with the two opportunities ive had to date since the uBPDex, i was incredibly anxious, and it just grew. im not like that in every case, so that tells me some things about myself and whats under my control. im less good at removing people from my life, ive never been comfortable with it, and ive always envied it. but i try to accept that im that way, and that in spite of that, i can enforce boundaries; ultimately, that may push some people out of my life, and thats life.

i think a big lesson for me personally has been accepting that i can and will make mistakes, and gaining confidence as a result, instead of some drastic attitude of "everything ive ever known is wrong", even though it feels that way initially. some things were wrong. some things were right. some things were bad judgment. it takes some time and centering to sort those things out.

thanks again all.