Complicated - r/s between two BPDs

[gylanir]

Hi all,

I've only recently started reading about BPD, and I'm at a crossroads right now. I'd appreciate any input, and I'm sorry in advance for the long post. It'll probably jump around a lot.

I'll start by saying that both I and my boyfriend exhibit BPD traits, though neither of us have been formally diagnosed. However, I have been clinically diagnosed with depression and anxiety in the past, but I haven't seen a therapist by myself in several years. I've had two tumultuous long-term relationships before my current partner, and what I would call three "flings". These flings occurred during my second long-term relationship when I felt unloved and underappreciated. To this day, I still don't know if my feelings were unfounded.

I've had problems connecting to people since I was a preteen, and I'm so sick of it. Every time I form even the smallest attachment to a person, I get very anxious. Butterflies in the stomach, increased heart rate, inability to focus, insomnia, etc. I'm acutely aware of any slight, no matter how small. I've been trying to practice mindfulness for the past two years, where I recognize my feelings as they occur and try to identify the trigger. It's hard because I always remember what my father used to tell me--that feelings were a choice. I find myself thinking that my feelings are irrelevent to any given situation, and this is becoming really apparent in my current relationship.

I honestly don't know what I'm looking for on this forum. I'm actually really afraid of posting this because it's so intimate. I already feel ashamed, and I haven't even submitted this yet.

I'd really like to change. I'm tired of hurting people with my inconsistent behaviour. It's been textbook in the past. With my first boyfriend, I would frequently stop talking to him and withdraw. When I was feeling okay, he and I had a great time hanging out though (in hindsight) he and I weren't compatible. My second boyfriend was hit with the worst of it. I left my first boyfriend for him, then got scared of the relationship and told him I never wanted to see him again. A year later, I contacted him and we eventually rekindled everything. He was at college, and I was living with my father and his wife while I both went to school and worked.

Now, I'd had a difficult relationship with my father for as long as I can remember. When I decided to move in with him, it was so I could support myself through school, but I also wanted to try to reconnect with him. It was great for a while--he and I would go to yoga classes together, and I would play games and hike with his new family. Then he had an affair. I was eventually kicked out of the house. My mother had previously moved to another state to pursue a boyfriend, and "get away" from the divorce between her and my father. So, I felt like I had nowhere to go. I've always had difficulty regulating my emotions, so I had a huge breakdown. Ended up withdrawing from school so I could use the class refund to make a down payment on an apartment. My mother was in town on business during this time, and she was there for me. She bought me a car to replace the one my father took back. She and I split rent payment for my apartment while I figured things out.

My second boyfriend was present during all of this. He and his family talked to me, and his mom let me stay with her until I had the courage to really settle into my apartment. But he was also not present, which I found really hard to deal with. He and I would see each other every 2-3 weeks when he came back into town to visit me and his family. He and I talked nearly every day though. I was feeling really vulnerable though. My work was part-time, and I was still insecure because of what had happened. At this point, he and I had never been really intimate, though he wanted it. When I found out that he liked looking at "illicit material" (sorry for the euphemism, I'm using a computer with filters), I felt deeply betrayed. I rationally understand that people do this, but it's not something I've ever really done aside from the initial curiosity when I was a teenager. He and I had several arguments over this, and I know I said some very hurtful things. It was around this time that he started saying he "cared for me" instead of saying he "loved me". At least, that's my perception. Eventually he and I became intimate, but I was always a little distant thereafter. I admit I felt like I was missing something, and tried to find it in other people. Hence the aforementioned flings. And yes, he was aware of them, though he and I didn't have the courage to really talk about them. Breakdown of communication. He didn't trust me not to lash out at him, and I didn't think he was capable of understanding me. He and I had a continued relationship for about three-four years after this, with at least a year spent living together in his apartment (I'd already left my previous one). For the sake of brevity, I'll quickly run through the rest. He said he doubted the relationship, we briefly went to couples counselling with me trying to mend the relationship, and him trying to find the will to leave. I didn't know at the time that this was his intention, so it was pretty devastating when he finally called it quits. Of course we remained "friends", in quotes because it was more of a "friends with benefits" ordeal for a few months. Then I decided I didn't want that sort of relationship with him, and put an end to that. He and I eventually stopped talking altogether, and I'm happy with that.

Now I'm in a relationship where I'm on the receiving end of the same volatile behaviours that I exhibited before. I'm trying very hard to be self-aware, and not let me insecurities get the better of me. I keep repeating the mantra "fear is the mindkiller"--this one's for all you sci-fi nerds. I feel like I've come a long way, though I still have slip-ups when I feel anxious when it seems like my boyfriend is pulling away. He's also still in contact with his ex, whom he left to be with me. This really is a grey situation, I know. He and I get along great though, during the good times--same sense of humor, same love of laughter, same desire to be outside and do things, same desire to hug and express physical affection (these were things I lacked in my previous relationship). But I know he's hanging onto his ex because he fears that I will abandon him, and every time I tell him how uncomfortable it makes me he accuses me of my past. I've told him everything about what I did to my previous boyfriends because I'm trying to come to terms with it so I can move forward. I'm in the process of trying to recover, and better myself. He strikes me as the sort who can do the same. Some days he's really self aware, though he's never had much interest in neuroscience and psychology like I have.

But I digress. I just notice my own tendencies to push and pull, though I'm trying really hard not to devalue him. Or idealize him--some days he feels like my soul mate when I never believed in such a concept before. I try to remember him as a whole person, and not paint him black on my bad days. When he rages at me or tells me I'm a b___, I try to emotionally distance myself. Reading about BPD has made it so much easier to do, but on days when I've had just too little sleep, or haven't eaten quite enough, it's almost impossible to keep myself in check. My own abandonment issues start to surface, and I have to try really hard not to completely shut down.

I don't want to talk about this, but I also want to make it work with him. I feel like, if I can practice mindfulness and try to get better, he can do the same. I realise I'm probably just projecting, but he's quite intelligent when he's not prey to his emotions.

Any input would be appreciated.

[once removed]

hey gylanir, and welcome to bpdfamily!

"I honestly don't know what I'm looking for on this forum. I'm actually really afraid of posting this because it's so intimate. I already feel ashamed, and I haven't even submitted this yet."

i understand you might be apprehensive, i think its a great step youre taking sharing your story and your struggles. we are an anonymous forum too, so youre very safe in that regard.

first ill tell you youre not alone. i can relate to some of your struggles. my history is that when romantic relationships start, i can be very obsessive, incredibly anxious, and lose focus myself, to the point that its just unhealthy for me. ive taken on some avoidant attributes to combat it, which isnt the healthiest solution either. mindfulness is, for me, one of the most useful skills i ever learned, and its a great step youve taken in practicing it.

"It's hard because I always remember what my father used to tell me--that feelings were a choice."

in fairness, if that were accurate, i would think everyone would simply choose to be happy. i wish feelings were a choice, then nobody would ever have to feel pain. i dont think its that simple. its useful to acknowledge our feelings, to validate them, sometimes to sit with them, sometimes to practice mindfulness about them; its one of the many ways we get to know ourselves, and grow.

it sounds like your relationship has its ups and downs, as frankly any relationship does. it also sounds like youre willing to put in the work to make it work, and youve done a lot already. have you had a chance to look at the lessons to the right? theres a great deal there that i think will be very useful to you.

how are you doing today?

[Turkish]

Hi gyanir,

"Fear is the mind killer."  Nice  

I'd like to join once removed in welcoming you to our family.

Not to slam dear old dad, but feelings aren't a choice, though actions are. With such deep triggers, actions are hard to control. It's good that you are aware of Mindfullness. We have a workshop here. Maybe you can glean something additional to what you already know:

Practicing mindfulness--how do you do it?

This may also help:TOOLS: DBT for Non Borderlines- Mindfulness

Though the board is focused on people who don't have BPD (and you say you aren't diagnosed), many members have some traits, especially those of us who have parents with BPD. A lot of members here also suffer from depression as well. The common bond is that we're all here to work through it and support each other in a safe, anonymous environment...

It must be both enlightening and perhaps saddening to see the behaviors from the "other side," but I'm hopeful of your courage to reach out to others for support  

Both my mom and my Ex both have clinical depression,.and it used to drive me nuts that they couldn't empathize with each other. I realize now that their core pain was so deep that they lashed out with their pain when triggered. Maybe it's something like that dynamic with you and your bf?

We have a lot of material, developed by experts in treating BPD, which can help improve your r/s. Take a look at the lessons in the right hand margin. The lessons at the top of the Staying Board will also be helpful, particularly the communication tools in Lesson 3.

Reaching out is a good first step gylanir, and I hope that you stick around to journey with us.

Take Care,

Turkish

[gylanir]

Thank you both for your support and welcome. I'm a little more sure of myself today, which makes me feel more at peace. The resources have been immensely helpful, and I've been reading a little of this and that every day for about a week now.

Our dynamic is a little difficult because we both have deeply rooted abandonment issues. We've both been loners for most of our lives, making few real friends beyond acquaintances. We've both traumatically lost a member of our immediate family (a sibling for him, my father for me), and neither of us are in contact with extended family. Whenever we make a connection to another, we cling to it.

The worst part about our relationship is that he still talks to his ex. Nearly every day. Some days I don't care and just ignore it when his phone pings. Other days, I get a sinking feeling in my stomach and get anxious. On the days when he's in a good mood, he's quick to reassure me--tells me that I am his girlfriend, that the fact he's with me means he loves me instead of her. He tells me the gist of what the two of them talk about. On his bad days, he tells me he feels "like a door is closing" and that he "has a choice to make". That I don't deserve to feel bad about his relationship with his ex because I had prolonged contact with mine. The "intimacy" I had after ending the relationship with mine is a frequent topic of our arguments. I've realised lately the only reason why my ex and I were "friends with benefits" was because I was afraid of losing him too. I thought that's what it took to keep him around, since he always said he didn't think he could remain friends with me. Again, I put an end to that, and I'm never going back. If my current bf and I broke up for any reason, I still wouldn't go back to that sort of behaviour. Not because he's worth less than my ex (which he oftens says), but because I can't condone that in myself anymore.

I'm working really hard to come to terms with the fact that people can talk to their exes. In truth, he hasn't actually done anything. No kissing, no visiting, nothing. It probably helps that she's out of state. I know my problem with it stems from my abandonment issues, and I've only just started to really vocalize that with him.

The other issue is that she's not as aware of BPD or its characteristics, from what I know of their conversations. When he tries to reach out to her--as a friend--for some validation, she shuts him down hard. Makes him feel worthless, and that what he's feeling is the result of his own "stupid actions". It probably doesn't help that there was some overlap between their relationship and ours. She won't let him go though, and vice versa. But when the two of them argue, it comes back and hurts our relationship too. Probably because it's a trigger for him. So now I have to cope with his insecurities about me, and his insecurities about her.

I also have some difficulty making boundaries. I have such a deep fear that he will leave if I assert myself. But the really hard part is in asserting myself with confidence versus anger/intimidation. I tend to do the latter a lot, but trying to be more self-assured instead. If he wants to leave, he will. He wanted to leave his ex to be with me, and made that happen. So far he hasn't made any actual break from me, aside from threatening to do so. Realising this has made it easier for me to be assertive because I've been alone before, and I was able to handle it somehow.

In all, I think he and I have a great relationship. We just have communication problems sometimes, but that's why I'm here. I want to be a better, more compassionate partner. I want to be able to let go of my own insecurities, and stop living in fear of the future because of past (and frankly, irrelevent) hurts. He's not my father, he's not my previous boyfriends, and he and I are not the same person. This is a new start. I'm trying to be an example for him so he'll feel more confident in himself. When he complimented me in the past, I used to say "really?" a lot, or sarcastically deny it. I've put myself down a lot around him, said how ugly and stupid I was, how weak. Now I'm trying to be mindful of his feelings by saying "thank you" when he compliments me.

Turkish--

It's really bizarre being on both sides of the equation. Witnessing and experiencing him has also made me more aware of how I behaved the same way in the past. I can better understand why my recent ex would shut down or refuse to talk to me. I was very good at invalidating him, and accusing him of x-y-z. It's frustrating because I want my current boyfriend to have the same epiphany. It's enlightening because I know what my ex did that triggered me, so I'm more aware of how I trigger my SO.

Thanks again for the welcome. I'd love to hear your experiences too. =)

Sorry again for the novel. This is the first time I've really articulated this. Kind-of like writing an essay on the subject.

[livednlearned]

Hi gylanir,

Hello and welcome! I'm glad you reached out and told your story, and even more, that you felt sure about yourself the next day.

I really admire how self-aware you are. It takes a lot to look at ourselves and start putting pieces of the puzzle together, as painful as it may be, and as confusing as it often is. You also understand the dynamics in your relationship, and how each of you are triggered.

Your description of your relationships, and the two of your having deeply rooted abandonment issues made me think about a book that is often recommended here -- have you heard of The High Conflict Couple by Alan Fruzetti? There is a section in there that describes emotions, which might also be interesting for you given your dad's comment about emotions being a choice. Fruzetti describes how our emotions affect other systems like thinking and physical systems. I wonder if maybe that is what your dad was suggesting? Maybe it's more that our emotions are what they are, and we make choices about how we think and act? I am curious to know your thoughts on this.

I also like how the book talks about transforming conflict into closeness. The communication skills he references are validation and dialectical behavior therapy, which uses a lot of mindfulness. You made reference to both of these skills so that made me wonder if you had already read the book.

Your empathy and compassion comes through when you talk about your boyfriend, and you are working hard to make this relationship work. This is a really supportive forum and I hope you feel safe here, and share what you're learning and going through. I really feel like this place helped me mend. We're all fellow travelers here. 

LnL

[Turkish]

My tendency is to run or shut down in the face of conflict. It didn't work well at all with my Ex with BPD traits. It was abandonment to her. Very bad. That's my story in 4 sentences. It was one of my contributions to the breakdown in our r/s. I blamed her, but i realze my role. Please keep reading and posting. A r/s success story or not, The real success stories are members who advance their own self-awarenews.

[Circle]

Sorry that you are struggling with so much right now. Still, it was refreshing to read your writing; it's so reflective and insightful. Good job doing so much thinking and self-analysis. I admire your ability to be honest with your partner and yourself.

[gylanir]

LnL--

The book's name sounds familiar, but I've not read it. It sounds interesting though. I'm not sure what my father's intentions were. From my perspective, he would only say that when I felt bad and expressed it. It was offensive to me at the time, so I just stopped expressing my feelings.

I strongly believe in the neuroscience of emotions. That the part of our brain regulating them is more primitive and reflexive; ie, it reacts faster to stimuli than the more logical parts. I've read about the effects of sleep deprivation on higher thinking, and how diet is also a trigger due to the vagus nerve in our stomachs. Caffeine and alcohol (generally, stimulants and depressants) have a huge impact on serotonin levels and reuptake, affecting mood. When I take all this into account, I tend to think less of the philosophy of emotions and more about stimuli. While I may not be able to control my predisposition to feel certain emotions, I can try to control the stimuli or at least remember to control breathing to keep heart rate at a constant. I'd like to hear your input on this approach too.

Thanks for the welcome. I like your icon too, love Hyperbole and a Half. =)

Turkish--

Thank you for sharing your side. I agree that self awareness is crucial to overall success. Not just in relationships, but in work, life, and personal satisfaction.

Circle--

Thank you. I admit I wasn't always able to be honest. In the beginning of my current relationship, it was very hard for me to be upfront about my past. My SO constantly asked me about previous partners and flings--what I'd "done" with them, how many there were, my feelings about them, and the timeline for all of this. It took three absolutely grueling discussions for me to really open up about everything. I had a constant fear that he would leave if he knew. Needless to say, he was and is very angry with me because of my partial truths. I really hurt our relationship by doing that. I know it was a reflex, a coping mechanism for my abandonment issues, but it was still wrong. I aim to never be so dishonest again. I've been reflecting a lot lately about all of it. This website has been immensely helpful, and I appreciate everyone else's stories too.

[gylanir]

I'm back to feeling pretty anxious today, could use some advice.

More backstory: my partner and I have separate living spaces, but he and I spend every night together at one or the other. We also have slightly different work schedules, with his ending later than mine. Tuesdays and Thursdays he gets out two hours after me. I use the extra time to do chores like grocery shopping, cleaning, paying bills, etc. I also have cats, so I take care of them and play with them.

Last night he said something that I'm now dreading, just because he tends to get fixated on certain thoughts (just like I'm fixated on this one). We were intimate with each other, and he suddenly started saying he smelled condoms in my room. I have no idea what he's talking about. I was cleaning yesterday, did some vaccuuming, used air freshener, washed the sheets. The sheets I have are microfiber, and they can smell a little weird after being in the dryer. But I honestly have no idea what he's talking about. Then he started saying he thought I was cheating on him.

It never escalated, and he was saying it in a way that seemed more like a test or probe than accusation. But I'm worried he'll cling to it and keep bringing it up. It's very hurtful to me because I love him very much, and I have no desire to cheat on him. He and I have so much fun together, such similar ideologies, and we really desire each other physically. He challenges me (in more ways than just this BPD stuff), and I like to think I challenge him right back.

My anxiety is rooted in the same abandonment issues. I'm afraid he'll fixate on the thought, and do something because of it. I'm afraid he'll either break up with me or start attaching to his ex again. I'm trying to be mindful, to keep my thoughts present, but I'm also worried about how I'll be able to validate his feelings without a) confirming his suspicions (which aren't even remotely true) and b)getting defensive and causing an argument.

Writing this certainly helps, but it's very difficult today. I'm wondering if it's because I've been having partially caffeinated coffee when I usually drink decaf, and I haven't been able to buy a lot of food this week. It's harder to regulate my emotions when I haven't been eating a lot. Most of this is probably me right now. Just trying to recognize it, express it, let it go.

[Circle]

Gylanir,

Hang in there! It sounds like he's just being paranoid. Obviously, he loves you and is drawn to you and likes to spend time with you. It seems to me that he wouldn't be fearful/suspicious of infidelity, if he wasn't interested and caring for you.

In my opinion, you need to relax, get some food, and eat more. Do you need to apply to a food stamps program? Or, maybe buy cheaper food, in larger quantities? Or just anticipate that not having food around will effect you this way, and plan ahead?

Just try doing something to relax and work on letting it go. Everything will be alright!

[gylanir]

Thank you Circle. Your words are a great comfort right now. He sent me his usual "good morning" message, but without the usual "I love you" or kissy emoticon. Then shortly afterward he told me he'd asked me about the condom while I was asleep last night, and I apparently told him "you were wearing it". I don't know if this is truth or fabrication, or if he dreamt it. In any case, he and I have had sparse contact today, and he just told me he was "going solo" tonight.

I'm still very anxious, but I will respect his wishes. I told him that I would miss spending the time with him, and look forward to the next time I can see him.

I'm working a full-time job now. I tend to have this food issue during the two weeks after paying for rent. I'm still trying to build up a savings account, so that's part of the reason why I'm not eating much. My own doing, I know--I'm putting more money in the savings budget than the food budget. But now that I'm not hanging out with my boyfriend tonight, I'm going to go to the store and pick up a couple of things to last me until Friday. I will also exercise tonight. That usually calms me down.

[livednlearned]

I'm also worried about how I'll be able to validate his feelings without a) confirming his suspicions (which aren't even remotely true) and b)getting defensive and causing an argument.

Hi gylanir,

It sounds like you already handled this well once when he brought it up the first time. It didn't escalate, I'm guessing because you stayed neutral and grounded and calm. You didn't get defensive or angry at him, and that is to be commended and deserves a shout out.

You're taking care of yourself, too. Exercising, budgeting, saving money, working full-time. And you reassured him.



LnL

[gylanir]

Hi Lnl,

Thanks for the support. It didn't escalate last night, but it seems as though he's been sitting on it all day today. This morning I woke up and he was already awake, which is unusual. He rarely wakes up to my alarms. Any sort of abnormal behaviour like this is usually a bad sign. I didn't make anything of it at the time. Hugged him, said I loved him, and said I would see him later tonight. Also said I hope my alarms didn't keep him up, and that he could get some extra sleep since I'd be leaving.

Throughout today, we've been exchanging few texts. After he initially told me he'd talked to me while I slept, I let him know that if he was concerned, I would be happy to talk and listen to him. I made it clear that I would not discuss it over text, and that we would have that discussion in person. He said he didn't want to talk about it at all, thought it was pointless because I've already proven myself to be a liar. We were silent for a while, then I asked him to clarify if we could talk at all today. He didn't answer the question, but when I started talking about something else (question about Apple Music), he told me ":)unno. Ask (insert my ex's name)". I said I would like his (my boyfriend's) help, and that I was not interested in talking to my ex. This was when he said he was going solo tonight.

I'm not sure if I'm behaving right. I'm not trying to confirm his suspicions, and I'm trying to respect the boundaries he's establishing today. But I am also very anxious. I have a history of self harm and drinking when I feel like this (it's been at least a year since I've consumed alcohol in this fashion, only socially now). Trying to stay aware, present, and not do anything stupid. That's why I'm focusing on the exercise tonight.

I really appreciate everyone's input.

[gylanir]

Just wanted to give an update. Writing about these events is both cathartic and enlightening, much like recording them in a diary.

By the end of the work day yesterday, my SO turned around and said he's willing to discuss everything with me. I ended up going back to his place, had dinner. We chilled separately for a couple of hours, and he ended up taking a nap. Then he woke up and things went downhill fast.

I did not handle last night well. There was nothing right I could say, and he wasn't talking. There was no way I could validate him, or find any connection. All I could end up doing was desperately saying I had not cheated on him, that I would never cheat on him, that I have no desire to do so. He wouldn't ever say why he felt I had. There were some moments of clarity when he and I just talked about other things (news, mostly). But then when I would try to joke with him, let him know things were okay, it was right back to him telling me to "shut the f*** up" and "don't patronize me". After a moment when he told me to go home and not come anywhere near him, I got in my car and made to leave. That's when he called me and convinced me to come back. I spent a good five-ten minutes wandering around his yard playing an impromptu game of hide and seek.

I stayed at his place on a spare futon. This is the first time I've not slept by his side in months. This morning I woke up, went into his bedroom to gather my things and let him know I was leaving. I thought it would be more prudent to keep him in the loop than to just leave without a word. I asked if I could hug him, and he said no. He eventually let me, and we hugged/kissed like we normally do before I left. I'm getting the silent treatment now though. No texts. No responses. Nothing.

I am at a complete loss for what to do. I love this guy, and know this is probably just another bump. It's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel right now though. I probably just made things worse last night by putting myself out there. I made myself vulnerable, forgetting what I was dealing with. I know he can't help it--right now he's convinced I've cheated on him when I've done nothing wrong. So instead of communicate, he's distancing himself a lot. He doesn't want to be abandoned, so he's doing it to me first. I believe he will come back since he usually does, but my own abandonment issues are at the surface right now. It's all I can do to keep from panicking today.

[livednlearned]

Hi gylanir,

Recording what you're working through in a diary can be so helpful, and you have friends here who care. It works well and I'm glad it's helping you.

I am at a complete loss for what to do. I love this guy, and know this is probably just another bump. It's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel right now though. I probably just made things worse last night by putting myself out there. I made myself vulnerable, forgetting what I was dealing with. I know he can't help it--right now he's convinced I've cheated on him when I've done nothing wrong. So instead of communicate, he's distancing himself a lot. He doesn't want to be abandoned, so he's doing it to me first. I believe he will come back since he usually does, but my own abandonment issues are at the surface right now. It's all I can do to keep from panicking today.

This made me think about one of the lessons (to the right in the Choosing a Path sidebar). It's from step 5:

STAYING: If you plan to stay and work it out - or you can't leave the relationship for a time - it's vitally important to embrace the role of emotional leader, learn what an emotional leader does, master the tools for it, and get behind them in good days and bad. Staying in the relationship and having it continually break you down (by either fighting or being defeated) is not a wise choice.

It's also important to recognize that a decision to stay is not irreversible. Often it is a learning process to see if you can rise to be the emotional leader - and if you do - will your relationship partner rise to follow. Here it's very important to know if we are making progress or hopelessly mired. In a process like this, with setbacks to be expected, this takes a keen eye, and typically a qualified third party to help.

From what you've shared here, it sounds like this is what you are doing now -- going through the learning process to see if your relationship partner will rise to follow as you take on the role of emotional leader. As it says above, setbacks are common.

You believe he will come back. This is an important piece of knowledge, based on past history and a pattern (which often predicts future behavior).

You also know why he is doing this, and that sheds a lot of light on this and what it's about.

My mindfulness instructor really helped me make the distinction between reacting and responding. It sounds to me like you are doing a very good job of responding. It's a moment-by-moment exercise and can be exhausting, tho ultimately rewarding. If you lose hold of it, that's ok. Each time you practice, you get better at it.

[gylanir]

Hi LnL,

Thank you for the information. Do you have any tools on what it takes to be an emotional leader? I often feel as though I can't be that sort of role model, given my own history. I would like to try though. I would like to be his rock. He hasn't been able to express himself to his parents, and his previous gf would (by his account) tell him he's an a-hole who can only occasionally be nice. I want to be the person who, despite what he says/does, can still say I love him and mean it. Right now, my only boundary is that he cannot cheat on me or beat me. I will terminate the relationship, I will not remain friends with him, and I've made that clear. That I cheated on my past boyfriend was a mistake, and it was wrong no matter the circumstances that led to it--which I've also expressed, in response to him bringing it up. I deeply regret the pain I caused by doing that, and I will not condone that sort of behaviour in either myself or my partner.

Aside from that, I feel as though I can handle the challenge. Just need to know how to approach it.

Right now I'm approaching this as a response to the final conflict I had with my father. I said some awful things during our arguments, and I invalidated him as best as I could. I was in the midst of an emotional breakdown, consumed by feelings of betrayal. After kicking me out of the house, he offered to bring me the rest of my possessions. The last time I saw him, he said "call me if you ever need anything" and left. I don't want to be so callous. I want to mean what I say, and prove it. I want to be there for my partner, offering my help and staying long enough to provide it.

My hope is that, by demonstrating I care consistently and without disparaging him, he may eventually feel comfortable with me. I got that from my ex-boss, and my friendship with him has been crucial to my current wellbeing.

Will you please help clarify the distinction between reacting and responding? I'm having difficulty understanding.

[livednlearned]

I'm sorry your dad was so callous like that, gylanir.  :'( That had to hurt.

Let's see... .being an emotional leader (to me) means being someone who works through the Lessons on the Staying board. Here's a link to a workshop that Skip led about what it takes to be an emotional caretaker (from the lessons mentioned above) that might be helpful: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=62266.0

For me, reacting is when my emotions take charge. Responding is when I push the pause button and reflect, then respond thoughtfully. In DBT, I think it's referred to as "wisemind," which is where emotion and logic overlap. You can read a bit about that here: https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

What your ex-boss modeled for you sounds very healthy and powerful. I'm glad he came into your life. Sometimes it takes one person to turn our lives around. 

[gylanir]

It was very difficult. I haven't talked to my father since then, and that was five years ago. Any time I even consider talking to him, I become anxious.

Those are very helpful tips. It seems like a fine line to walk, being attached enough to care about your partner but not so attached that you take their rages personally. I commend anyone who can manage it. Do you have any experience with this?

Another update--

I was given the silent treatment all day yesterday, though I sent the occasional text to let him know I was thinking about him. Tried not to bombard his phone, despite my anxiety. Right around the time I would normally go to his house, he contacted me (which was what I predicted, though I tried not to expect it if that makes sense). He told me he was going to visit his ex Friday (today), and I told him to have fun. I reiterated that him visiting his ex made me uncomfortable, to which he responded with "she's not the ex, you are". I told him "I see. Care to break up with me in person, or is this it?" Then he said he wasn't actually breaking up with me, and asked if I was going to his place. He then said he would not be happy-go-lucky.

I wanted to demonstrate that I want to be with him regardless of whether or not he's happy or being fun. I want the good and the bad. I told him this later in the evening after we had dinner. At one point he started texting his ex pictures of their shared memorabilia, which I did not respond to in any way. All I said was, "If you want to break up with me, just be upfront about it. I'm not going to be the one to do it since this relationship means too much to me." He said we could still be friends. I re-established my boundary by telling him that wasn't what I wanted from him, and no--I would not be his friend if we broke it off. His mood instantly lightened after that and we had a rather pleasant evening. There were some moments when he tried to get a rise out of me by mentioning his ex or mildly insulting me, but I did not respond to any of it.

Needless to say I am relieved today. He told me he would sometimes give his ex the silent treatment for weeks. During his relationship with me, he's only really given me the silent treatment for hours.

He likes to ask why my relationship with him is different from my previous one, and why he is better. I tell him our dynamics are different. I'm trying to be a role model for him, since I've seen so many parallels between him and me. I've told him that my recent ex and I weren't compatible, that--though he was actually a decent person--I was mean to him. I would rage at him, accuse him of things like cheating on me. I felt contempt for him because he would shut down when I tried having a discussion with him (understandable--I tended to escalate any discussion into a full-blown argument). When I was feeling bad and he tried to hug me, I told him not to touch me. I really did want to be held and comforted, but I couldn't stand the thought of being so weak and dependent on him. My ex didn't see past that though. He'd leave me alone, which of course perpetuated my abandonment fears. My ex became afraid of me and my erratic behaviour, and it really damaged our relationship. Whenever I talk about these experiences, my SO says we sound alike. He's done all of these things as well. I'm hopeful that, by continuing to be mindful and deliberate in my actions/words (to respond instead of react, as you said), he will learn from my example. People/relationships are grey. Once you can accept that, it's easier to find a person you can depend on. Then you won't have to be alone.

[Circle]

Hang in there. Sounds like a balancing act. I know how that feels.

[gylanir]

Thanks Circle. It's certainly an interesting dynamic for me.

I've already noticed a change in my own perception over the course of the last few months. When my SO would ask me questions about previous relationships, I still had a strong victim mentality that I thought I'd gotten rid of. It's weird, but also empowering, to have a greater understanding of myself too.

We had a relatively good weekend. Went for a 3.5mi jog on Friday night, rested up on Saturday, and chilled for most of Sunday before spending some time with my mother and sister. It's still very stressful for him to be around my family, but it was great. Returned to his place that night after going for a brief swim, and I was able to convince him to go for another short jog with me. He's a little quiet today, but I'm again trying to give him some space by not bombarding his phone. It's a lot easier today than it was last week. Probably helps that we have some tentative plans for tonight.