Forget Turning a Corner - DBPDexfg Flipped the Script on Me

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I was feeling VERY good last week, like I was really making progress, “turning a corner”. Then last night happened.

I was maintaining very limited contact with my dBPDexgf so she could pay me back some money. In my opinion, she was handling the situation in a very cold, flaky, borderline evasive way, but I had really detached from her behavior and was just looking forward to being paid back.

We had discussed her paying me back in July several times, and the last time she told me she was out of out town and would contact me on Wednesday to set it up. Wednesday comes around and it’s about 5 pm and she hasn’t gotten touch with me. No big deal. I text her wishing her well and asking her how she wants to handle everything this week. 4 hours later she still hasn’t responded (but I know she’s read the text). That’s when I take the gloves off slightly and text her that I want to solidify the plans as soon as possible. I didn’t want to get terse, but my thought is SHE said she would text me about it, and now I’m being forced to harangue her and I just want to get it settled.

She texts me back basically blowing me off, telling that she’s busy and she would appreciate patience. I was not in the mood to play games so I told her I had been patient, I waited for her to contact me today. She didn’t. So I contacted her, gave her four hours and now I expected a response. I told her she should just decide how she wanted to handle it then she could go back whatever she was doing. She called me to say she’d get me the money, but she didn’t appreciate my rudeness and my “hate”. I basically said I wasn’t being hateful but thanks for saying she would get me the money and then I hung up on her. I didn’t appreciate her calling me to fight, especially after I had told her I wanted distance from everything to begin with. THIS wasn’t distance. She got really pissed and told me a bunch of things… This needed to be civil… She’s dealing with a lot right now and just hasn’t had the time to think about how to deal with the money. I responded with this:

“I’ve always been civil. Considering wha you owe and the amount of time you’ve had, I’d love to see behavior you thought was uncivil. Frankly, you’ve taken advantage of my patience and civility, and you’ve been evasive and disrespectful of my boundaries. I told you I wanted distance for myself and you insisted on handing the money off in person. Fine. Then you just called me to tell me I was rude. I’ve asked us to do this via email, but you refused or ignored. Then you call – that’s violating my boundaries please, don’t do it again. Secondly, if you ask me it was rude how YOU said were going to contact me today, seemed to have no intention of doing so, and then when I press for a reasonable answer to my question (which you said you would discuss today) you try to blow me off. You knew I was intending to get paid back at the beginning of July and you knew days ago this conversation was coming. I don’t care how pressing everything else on your mind is. This needs to be pressing on your mind as well.”

This just made her more upset and still unwilling to just set a time and move on… She told me how her grandmother was dying or something and she was being forced to deal with it. Obviously, I’m sympathetic to that, but the last time I had tried to have a conversation with her about something she ended things by telling me, “I have nothing to discuss with you other than the money.” So it felt like a double standard… Like we don’t have anything to discuss EXCEPT when you want me to feel sorry for you and not make you pay me back (FOG). So I didn’t really bite. I told her her issues are her own and they have nothing to do with her situation with me, and that she should just be an adult and deal with it. She kept on getting angry about this and that… She said she wasn’t going to let me manipulate her the way I had manipulated her throughout the course of our relationship (whatever…)

At this point, we had been going back and forth for like 10 minutes, and I just told her, “Look, you could have already figured out this situation in the amount of time it’s taken for you to be evasive and hurtful. Get in touch with me when you’re ready to give me the consideration I deserve.”

She started saying things like she was going to start calling me on my nonsense, she already brought up my “manipulation” from the relationship. I told her I had no interest in discussing the relationship, but that she didn’t want to go there. She said something critical of the way I handled something, said I put her through a “loop” emotionally with the way I couldn’t decide if we could be friends after the relationship. That’s when I sent her this:

“Oh you mean like the loop of triangulation and pain you put me through with your ex-boyfriend that I never called you out on.” (She had a really toxic, relationship with an ex that was one of the main sources of pain in the relationship... .He was still in love with her, and I broke up with her because I felt I had been pulled into a dysfunctional triangle).

THAT stopped her dead in her tracks. Suddenly, she was really apologetic, saying she was sorry she put me through that, that I didn’t deserve that baggage but she “trusted me so much.” I didn’t know what to say. I had been waiting for her to say something like that for… EVER. Just to acknowledge that and admit it was unfair to me and it kind of happened.

We ended up having this really emotional conversation over the phone, we were both crying hardcore. At first she wanted me to apologize for saying what I did because I was “throwing her past back at her.” But I didn’t. I unloaded everything that happened that I thought was unfair and dysfunctional, most of it relating to stuff with her ex-boyfriend. I unloaded on her for when I asked her not to text her abusive, obsessive ex-boyfriend in front of me constantly, and how when I asked that she attacked ME, said I was insecure, that I didn’t love her enough, that she didn’t know if she could trust me.

That’s when the damn really burst. I think she could tell I was upset about a lot of the stuff that went down in regards to that situation with her ex.

She told me the only reason she maintained that constant communication with her ex is because her ex was threatening to kill her the whole time and she was paralyzed with fear. She thought the only way to placate him was to always be responding to him. I was pretty devastated hearing this. I just don’t know what to believe or how to feel about it. If it’s true, I obviously would have supported her. Why didn’t she tell me?

It just made me contemplate the “what ifs”. What if she had told me? Could the relationship have survived? Did I really leave the woman I loved because she was afraid of an abusive ex, but I couldn’t see that and I made it about me?

I thought I was actually going to get closure from some of this, but it just got worse. She apologized to me for not being more upfront with me about what she needed from me, that she just needed someone to be a friend and love her and “be her strength” through that ordeal… That I just “wasn’t that person and that wasn’t my fault.” I think she thought she was saying something good when she told me that, but honestly it felt terrible. Just another example of how I wasn’t enough (I just wasn’t enough, not my fault though, I could never be enough). I’m not stupid though. The truth is NO partner was ever going to be enough, was ever going to be her strength through that. She had to be her strength.

And she admitted that in a roundabout way. She admitted that she eventually realized she had to cut her ex off before she ever be in a relationship with someone again. So she did. And now she’s seeing someone else. Great for that guy I guess. Meanwhile I BEGGED her to cut this person out of her life. And it just sucks because… No matter how much I begged she was never going to be able to do it until she was ready, and now I’m just left with this feeling that there was nothing I could have done. That should make me feel better, right? But it doesn’t.

She told me how much she loved me, and it just hurt. It hurts like hell. Just feel very hurt and empty right now from all of this.

[mrwigand]

I was feeling VERY good last week, like I was really making progress, “turning a corner”. Then last night happened.

I was maintaining very limited contact with my dBPDexgf so she could pay me back some money. In my opinion, she was handling the situation in a very cold, flaky, borderline evasive way, but I had really detached from her behavior and was just looking forward to being paid back.

We had discussed her paying me back in July several times, and the last time she told me she was out of out town and would contact me on Wednesday to set it up. Wednesday comes around and it’s about 5 pm and she hasn’t gotten touch with me. No big deal. I text her wishing her well and asking her how she wants to handle everything this week. 4 hours later she still hasn’t responded (but I know she’s read the text). That’s when I take the gloves off slightly and text her that I want to solidify the plans as soon as possible. I didn’t want to get terse, but my thought is SHE said she would text me about it, and now I’m being forced to harangue her and I just want to get it settled.

She texts me back basically blowing me off, telling that she’s busy and she would appreciate patience. I was not in the mood to play games so I told her I had been patient, I waited for her to contact me today. She didn’t. So I contacted her, gave her four hours and now I expected a response. I told her she should just decide how she wanted to handle it then she could go back whatever she was doing. She called me to say she’d get me the money, but she didn’t appreciate my rudeness and my “hate”. I basically said I wasn’t being hateful but thanks for saying she would get me the money and then I hung up on her. I didn’t appreciate her calling me to fight, especially after I had told her I wanted distance from everything to begin with. THIS wasn’t distance. She got really pissed and told me a bunch of things… This needed to be civil… She’s dealing with a lot right now and just hasn’t had the time to think about how to deal with the money. I responded with this:

“I’ve always been civil. Considering wha you owe and the amount of time you’ve had, I’d love to see behavior you thought was uncivil. Frankly, you’ve taken advantage of my patience and civility, and you’ve been evasive and disrespectful of my boundaries. I told you I wanted distance for myself and you insisted on handing the money off in person. Fine. Then you just called me to tell me I was rude. I’ve asked us to do this via email, but you refused or ignored. Then you call – that’s violating my boundaries please, don’t do it again. Secondly, if you ask me it was rude how YOU said were going to contact me today, seemed to have no intention of doing so, and then when I press for a reasonable answer to my question (which you said you would discuss today) you try to blow me off. You knew I was intending to get paid back at the beginning of July and you knew days ago this conversation was coming. I don’t care how pressing everything else on your mind is. This needs to be pressing on your mind as well.”

This just made her more upset and still unwilling to just set a time and move on… She told me how her grandmother was dying or something and she was being forced to deal with it. Obviously, I’m sympathetic to that, but the last time I had tried to have a conversation with her about something she ended things by telling me, “I have nothing to discuss with you other than the money.” So it felt like a double standard… Like we don’t have anything to discuss EXCEPT when you want me to feel sorry for you and not make you pay me back (FOG). So I didn’t really bite. I told her her issues are her own and they have nothing to do with her situation with me, and that she should just be an adult and deal with it. She kept on getting angry about this and that… She said she wasn’t going to let me manipulate her the way I had manipulated her throughout the course of our relationship (whatever…)

At this point, we had been going back and forth for like 10 minutes, and I just told her, “Look, you could have already figured out this situation in the amount of time it’s taken for you to be evasive and hurtful. Get in touch with me when you’re ready to give me the consideration I deserve.”

She started saying things like she was going to start calling me on my nonsense, she already brought up my “manipulation” from the relationship. I told her I had no interest in discussing the relationship, but that she didn’t want to go there. She said something critical of the way I handled something, said I put her through a “loop” emotionally with the way I couldn’t decide if we could be friends after the relationship. That’s when I sent her this:

“Oh you mean like the loop of triangulation and pain you put me through with your ex-boyfriend that I never called you out on.” (She had a really toxic, relationship with an ex that was one of the main sources of pain in the relationship... .He was still in love with her, and I broke up with her because I felt I had been pulled into a dysfunctional triangle).

THAT stopped her dead in her tracks. Suddenly, she was really apologetic, saying she was sorry she put me through that, that I didn’t deserve that baggage but she “trusted me so much.” I didn’t know what to say. I had been waiting for her to say something like that for… EVER. Just to acknowledge that and admit it was unfair to me and it kind of happened.

We ended up having this really emotional conversation over the phone, we were both crying hardcore. At first she wanted me to apologize for saying what I did because I was “throwing her past back at her.” But I didn’t. I unloaded everything that happened that I thought was unfair and dysfunctional, most of it relating to stuff with her ex-boyfriend. I unloaded on her for when I asked her not to text her abusive, obsessive ex-boyfriend in front of me constantly, and how when I asked that she attacked ME, said I was insecure, that I didn’t love her enough, that she didn’t know if she could trust me.

That’s when the damn really burst. I think she could tell I was upset about a lot of the stuff that went down in regards to that situation with her ex.

She told me the only reason she maintained that constant communication with her ex is because her ex was threatening to kill her the whole time and she was paralyzed with fear. She thought the only way to placate him was to always be responding to him. I was pretty devastated hearing this. I just don’t know what to believe or how to feel about it. If it’s true, I obviously would have supported her. Why didn’t she tell me?

It just made me contemplate the “what ifs”. What if she had told me? Could the relationship have survived? Did I really leave the woman I loved because she was afraid of an abusive ex, but I couldn’t see that and I made it about me?

I thought I was actually going to get closure from some of this, but it just got worse. She apologized to me for not being more upfront with me about what she needed from me, that she just needed someone to be a friend and love her and “be her strength” through that ordeal… That I just “wasn’t that person and that wasn’t my fault.” I think she thought she was saying something good when she told me that, but honestly it felt terrible. Just another example of how I wasn’t enough (I just wasn’t enough, not my fault though, I could never be enough). I’m not stupid though. The truth is NO partner was ever going to be enough, was ever going to be her strength through that. She had to be her strength.

And she admitted that in a roundabout way. She admitted that she eventually realized she had to cut her ex off before she ever be in a relationship with someone again. So she did. And now she’s seeing someone else. Great for that guy I guess. Meanwhile I BEGGED her to cut this person out of her life. And it just sucks because… No matter how much I begged she was never going to be able to do it until she was ready, and now I’m just left with this feeling that there was nothing I could have done. That should make me feel better, right? But it doesn’t.

She told me how much she loved me, and it just hurt. It hurts like hell. Just feel very hurt and empty right now from all of this.

[LonelyChild]

From my point of view, it's obvious how she tried different tactics to get at you. Finally, she found one that worked - fake empathy and crying with you. My ex did this ALL the time.

If you had stood your ground, she would have switched tactic again. My friend once noticed this as well when reading texts from my uBPDxgf.

Try to stand your ground. I did. She was attacking me at first. The switched to shut off and cold. Then accusing and passive-aggressive. Then crying and telling me how much she loved me and that I shouldn't be angry with her. I stood my ground 100% firmly and didn't move an inch. What happened next?

She started screaming like a mad witch, from the top of her lungs, all kinds of evilness until she lost her voice. She then ran out into traffic and tried to kill herself and was rushed into psych ward with an ambulance. Why? Because she couldn't gain control.

What she did to you was a control attempt, and she succeeded.

[GaGrl]

Agree... .you were completely taken off the original topic, and you have no plan for her to repay you. Her mission was accomplished, and you were hooked.

[Mr Hollande]

Is this money significant enough that you depend on it being paid back? If not, and even if it's a sizeable amount, for your own well being, it may be best to just let it go.

[apollotech]

Is this money significant enough that you depend on it being paid back? If not, and even if it's a sizeable amount, for your own well being, it may be best to just let it go.

Hi mrwigand,

I have followed this issue of yours on your other threads. As I posted on one of those other threads, what I had feared has now come to pass. This is why she would only agree to repaying you if she was allowed to make the payment in person. She's holding you hostage with the money as a means to address her own agenda.

That said, and along with the great question/advice posted by Mr Hollande, what are your chances of actually getting the money? If you jump through all of her hoops and take an emotional beating (even after all of that), what are the chances that she's actually going to give you the money?

[mrwigand]

Firstly, I want to thank everyone for responding. Truthfully, I don't know what to think or believe, but it may be time to just stop pressing the money. My ex and I ended our last conversation on good terms, so maybe she'll get to the money eventually on her own.

I can say that after this blow up turned emotional conversation, she did pay me back a portion of the money and she did it in a way that respected my space. I absolutely see her behavior regarding the money as being evasive and even manipulative depending on your perspective. But more than anything I've been feeling very distraught because of the conversation we had AFTER the fight. The emotional, teary conversation that initially seemed like a great possibility for closure and catharsis. She didn't say anything intentionally hurtful during that conversation. Sure, she deflected responsibility for certain things, but she brought up some good points and she actually apologized as wholeheartedly as I think she was capable of doing.

I guess I'm just really heartbroken still in a lot of ways. Firstly, I'm consumed with a lot of "what ifs". What if she had told me her ex was threatening her like that? The main reason I left her is because I couldn't handle the toxic triangle that developed that I thought she was feeding into and possibly even enjoying. What if she was telling the truth and she was legitimately just afraid for her life. None of that changes the fact that the relationship was never going to be healthy until she excised her ex from her life and she simply wasn't ready to do that when we were together, no matter how much I pleaded. She was never going to be able to do it until she was ready. I guess it would be easier if I could still frame her as the bad guy in some way.

Of course, none of that really addresses the fact that she is still diagnosed borderline personality disorder, so most likely the relationship was NEVER going to be healthy regardless of whether the ex was in her life or not. I know that rationally, but after that conversation that's definitely not what I was thinking.

[Gonzalo]

I guess I'm just really heartbroken still in a lot of ways. Firstly, I'm consumed with a lot of "what ifs". What if she had told me her ex was threatening her like that? The main reason I left her is because I couldn't handle the toxic triangle that developed that I thought she was feeding into and possibly even enjoying. What if she was telling the truth and she was legitimately just afraid for her life.

If she had legitimate fear for her life based on actual facts, where are the police reports and other protective measures? I don't see how fear for her life justifies destroying your life, since you're not the one threatening her, but I doubt that there is any actual threat. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure she was afraid for her life at some point - my ex-BPD was scared that I would beat her or try to force her into sex even though she's the only one who ever threatened physical violence or pressured for sex. I just think it's the basic principle that, for a pwBPD, feelings create facts.

[mrwigand]

I just want to thank everyone for the insight, support, and validation. That was an emotional conversation I had with my ex, and it made me question a lot, but I'm feeling a lot better only a few days later. I got some great support here, and also I spoke to some of my best friends who echoed the many of the same sentiments that have been expressed here.

My friends also thought she was using different tactics to manipulate me, and I don't even mean to say that to demonize my ex. I'm sure she doesn't realize what she's doing much of the time. It's just important for me to remember that despite how strongly I felt for her that a healthy relationship wasn't and still isn't possible.