Keeping 'secrets' from BPD mother?

[Maisha]

I'd like to hear from others who have a BPD mother on how much disclosure is appropriate.  I grew up in an environment of emotional incest, and am made my mother's confidante. 

I live away from both my mother and my husband. I have to struggle to divvy up my 25 leave days between seeing my parents and my husband. This year, for example, I had my mother visit me for 10 days, then went on holiday for 10 days with my husband.  I thought it was a good balance, but she could not deal with it. She hated the fact that I was going on holiday with him, instead of taking her along with me. This is turning into a repeating pattern - I only see my husband about 4-5 times per year, but anytime I go somewhere with him, she guilts me, saying how she wishes I would be seeing her instead. 

At this point, I wonder if I should even tell her when/where I am going with him.  I would feel guilty not doing it - again, the FOG talking.  Yet, if I tell her, she will ruin my time with him. What do I owe her?  I'm not comfortable with lying but I struggle with seeing another way out.  I know that eventually I have to be immune to her guilt tripping but, I  am due to see him in September and I just don't want her to ruin another one of my few private moments with my husband with her incessant nagging and guilt tripping.

Have you kept secrets from the BPD parent?  Even writing something like that makes me feel infantile!

[HappyChappy]

An excellent question, and one I’m sure many of us struggle with. First of all, in my view you BPD mother is bang out of order. Most mothers (with unconditional love) would understand their child needs to see their husband first in your setting.

First point is that a BPD assumes we’re all up to the same trickery so they often assume we’re lying even when we’re not. My BPD certainly did. However anyone with a PD doesn’t tend to react well to lies. If you look at the S.E.T approach to dealing with Borderlines the T = Truth. That said and done as I was the scapegoat, I was never allowed to develop lying skills. I was permanently being accused, so “honesty was the best policy” . However, my sister was the “lost child” so she never got the Gestapo cross questioning I always got. Her approach is to say as little as possible and keep it vague so she has an escape if found out. So I guess it depends on the dynamics. So for example her hubby is scared stiff of our BPD and has met her only twice. He developed a rare illness, that the Dr’s have yet to get to the bottom off. Even though I can see the holes in her excuses, my BPD isn’t really interested in him, so they get away with it.

If you’re anything like me, you’ll need to address the F.O.G. before you can comfortably fob your BPD off. As a child I would literally shake if I tried to lie to her. Not so now – Ha ! But that’s because I don’t particularly want to spend any more time with her, which is a secret I keep from her  , but your situation sounds different. Best of luck. 

[Maisha]

Thanks for the response HappyChappy.  It's interesting to me to hear about your experience in this regard.  I completely understand that boundaries will eventually mean coming out with the cold, hard truth - which, in my case, is not even a villainous truth, but something as simple as, "Mother, I am married and I need to spend some time with my spouse". 

But when dealing with a BPD parent, even obvious statements like the above can come across to them as abandonment. Last time I went to see my husband, I told her, and she flew into one of her usual emotional manipulation rages, telling me how I'm now ignoring her for him.  The conversation ended with her saying "You can spend time with him when I'm dead".

So clearly, there's no way to rationalize with her.  I am wondering what people on this message board do in terms of disclosure.  From my experience, my BPD mother can be very pushy, always asking for details about my life, my whereabouts etc.  And although i've been the good and dutiful daughter my whole life, kept her informed, I now am getting to the point where I feel she really does not need to know. 

[Harri]

Hi Maisha. 

What do I owe her?  I'm not comfortable with lying but I struggle with seeing another way out.  I know that eventually I have to be immune to her guilt tripping but, I  am due to see him in September and I just don't want her to ruin another one of my few private moments with my husband with her incessant nagging and guilt tripping.

Have you kept secrets from the BPD parent?  Even writing something like that makes me feel infantile!

IMO, you don't owe her anything.  It is not her business and your first or primary relationship and responsibility is to yourself and your husband. 

I don't see it as keeping secrets or lying.  It is more like setting appropriate boundaries and limits.  It is not appropriate for her to know everything about you and your life nor is it appropriate for her to expect you to put her before your husband.  Besides, keeping secrets implies that you are doing something wrong or shameful.  That is not the case here.  You are simply taking care of you and setting limits with a person who has proven time and again that she can not be trusted to act like an adult who respects you as a separate person.  You are doing nothing wrong.  She has acted in ways that makes it difficult for you to be open with her. 

You said "I know that eventually I have to be immune to her guilt tripping".   I would say you can get to a point where it does not bother you or if it does, it is a momentary flash of annoyance.  it will take time though.  Once you set boundaries or change your behavior, hers will get worse and she will try to push you more and more with demands.  More importantly though, any change in what you typically do in this situation will be uncomfortable, stressful and anxiety producing to *you*.  Don't let that put you off.  Expect her to push.  Expect that you will feel uncomfortable and anxious.  Prepare yourself for it... .and then do whatever you decide (whether you share details with her or not). 

As for feeling infantile, well, I get it.  I used to feel the same way.  It took practice and I had panic attacks when i first started setting boundaries and stopped sharing, but over time, the FOG lessened and it got easier and easier to not tell her certain things. 

[MiserableDaughter]

I totally get your saying that even a simple truth like "I'm married and need to spend more time with my spouse" is micronstrued. I remember when I got married, I just casually said "mom, don't mind if I can't call you every day on my honeymoon." That's it. There was the biggest rage from her saying I had "already" been brainwashed by my husband etc. Or now 12 years later, sometimes my 3 year is grumpy and clings to me instead of going to her, and immediate response is "oh, he doesn't even know me anymore cause he doesn't see me enough." I respond with, "no mom, he's just being a 3 year old who clings to his mom sometimes!" And that's met with this very offended look.

I totally understand how even simple truths and conversation becomes offensive. People who haven't experienced it don't get it. I have also lied over and over about things just to avoid the drama. For example, my mom has wanted to watch my son while I work (I only work part time) but I put him in preschool which he loves. But I also have a nanny watch him for a half a day once a week. I don't tell her I have a sitter. Cause she gets soo upset. "But iiiii want to watch him! You don't need a sitter! I would get up at 4am for him! You keep him away from me!" So it's better she doesn't know some things... .

But if it's as simple as your husband spending time with you, that's a truth that needs to be said in a nice way... .Maybe it's "mom do want me to get divorced? Because if I don't spend time with him, that will happen." Or something like that... .but you need to say it. Having a relationship with your husband shouldn't be a secret.

[HappyChappy]

I don't see it as keeping secrets or lying.  It is more like setting appropriate boundaries and limits.  It is not appropriate for her to know everything about you and your life nor is it appropriate for her to expect you to put her before your husband. 

Harri makes a good point. However this approach involves avoiding certain discussions. Changing the topic, having to leave the room for the toilet or a glass of water. Now if you BPD is an aggressive nag, you'll run out of excuses, so will need short visits.

I totally get your saying that even a simple truth like "I'm married and need to spend more time with my spouse" is micronstrued... .But if it's as simple as your husband spending time with you, that's a truth that needs to be said in a nice way.

I would look at S.E.T. or other models designed to get the best out of BPD when discussing such issues.   

[Harri]

Hello again!   

I don't see it as keeping secrets or lying.  It is more like setting appropriate boundaries and limits.  It is not appropriate for her to know everything about you and your life nor is it appropriate for her to expect you to put her before your husband. 

HappyC wrote in response:

Harri makes a good point. However this approach involves avoiding certain discussions. Changing the topic, having to leave the room for the toilet or a glass of water. Now if you BPD is an aggressive nag, you'll run out of excuses, so will need short visits.

It is always interesting to see how our words are interpreted by others who have different experiences and filters.  Avoidance and making up excuses are not methods that I would recommend unless under the most unusual of circumstances (like you are trying to avoid a scene at a funeral or something!)  The boundaries and limits I was talking about actually require truth and directness.  Short and simple truth.  If SET works, then go for it. 

Thanks for the opportunity to clarify HappyC!

[SunshinePuzzle]

Hi Maisha,

Jealous of your time with your husband? I feel for you! I think, like others have said, it depends on what kind of relationship/contact you want to try to have with her.

On a recent trip home to see my family, my mom got mad at me for having dinner one night with a friend without her, and for having lunch with my aunt (her sister) whom she hates. This was a during a week long trip where I did spend other nights with her, of course, but you know - you're never supposed to do anything they don't want to do b/c they are the only people who matter.  

My dad said to me about each of these, with anxiety: "Your Mama might get mad... ." And my response (which is new for me - the first time I've tried it) was "I can't help it."

And of course she did get mad. But for me, I'm at a stage in my life where "I can't help it" is true. I can't fix her, I can't caretake her irrational emotions anymore, and I am tired of walking on eggshells around her and curtailing things I want to do in order to try and keep her from being "mad" over something utterly ridiculous.

For me, I feel so 'done' with her that I didn't feel a need to hide these things, but you may not be 'done' in that same way. So... .if you're not ready to say, "I can't help it," then yeah, I'd suggest not telling her what you're up to. As other posters said - it's a matter of self-protection and boundaries.

Best wishes.