It looks like I was recycled after all...

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello all,

I posted my story (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=279824.0) here a couple of weeks ago.  I wanted to update and get advice or at the very least some support in what I'm going through. I posted my original story 11 July and would like to continue from where it left off:

On 12 July, I spoke to her off and on, but it was more pleasantries than anything else.  During the week, we had made amends for my behavior (as in my outburst) and believe that we had worked through it.  The following weekend (18 July) I was given the silent treatment again and given the excuse that her phone wasn't working correctly.  She had broken the screen a couple of weeks prior and it had been 'on the fritz' ever since.  It was funny to me that it worked fine during the week it seemed, but not on the weekend.  My suspicions began to further rise that we were coming to a critical point and she was going to leave.

This past weekend (25 July), the same thing had happened.  The day before things seemed to have been stabilizing as we were having conversations about the future (family, vacations together, etc.).  She told me that she had went to get her phone fixed that morning and that she wanted to see me after she was done.  I agreed.  She told me that she was headed back to our city and had planned to see me, but her mom was with her and that she still hoped to see me.  She was getting ready to go on vacation the next week and told me she had to pack.  As time went by, she kept telling me she had to pack until she suddenly stopped replying in the mid afternoon altogether.  She went silent the rest of the day (I had text her and called her, to no avail throughout the day) and she text me the following day saying that she had sent me several text and that I had never responded.  We continued contact the rest of Sunday, but she kept saying how she expected us to fight about her going on vacation with her family.  Where this had come from, I had no idea.  Of course when she had mentioned going on vacation with them, I asked why should would go with people that verbally and physically abuse her (according to her) and she would always say something of the effect that it was her family and they were paying and she had to get away 'from it all'.  I took that to be a slight against me, since we had been arguing off and on about seemly everything for the past several weeks.

Anyway, on the following Monday morning she text and told me that she had the day off as she had been expected to work.  We had arranged that I was going to see her on Monday (lunchtime, as evening was supposed to be booked for possibly leaving early for vacation), since she wasn't working.  She replied that she didn't know as her mom was off.  My response was that I didn't understand why her mother was a factor in her coming to have lunch with me, especially since she was about to leave for a weeks vacation.  She went silent again shortly there after.

I happened to go into the part of the office she works in and saw her boss (who I am friends with).  Since I knew she was supposed to be working that day, I asked where she was.  I was told she was off as an early vacation gift.  I responded that that was nice of them, that she needed the time away due to stress of her home life.  I was told by the boss that her home life must not be to terrible, as she has a new boyfriend.  I, of course, was flabbergasted (though I suppose I shouldn't have been).  Naturally, I inquired about this and was told the story of how she had been seeing an ex-employee 'for about a month' and proceeded to tell me all about it.  Needless to say, I was hurt.

I immediately contacted her and told her we had to meet immediately, to which she agreed.  She was irate when she arrived, wanting to know what she 'had done now'.  I told her that I knew she had been lying to me.  At first she denied, then she (fairly) coldly came clean about it.  She said that she had tried to tell me she was tired of being alone all the time and my blow up on the 10th had pushed her to go on a date with someone else.  She said that she had planned to tell me about him while she was on vacation or as soon as she had gotten back.  We talked for about 2 hours and a lot was said.  It ranges from she likes the new guy and wants to see where it could go because he's good to her and she likes him and he likes her, to she doesn't know where it would go, to she loves me but I'm not available (Im separated going through a divorce, like she allegedly is) and she can't wait for the future anymore, to she knows no one will ever love her like I do, and so on.  She denies sleeping with him (which may or may not be true) and denies that they've been 1-1 with each other (she says her 'dates' with him have been group hangouts and they've barely spoken then, its all been text.  The boss believes its more than that, as she told me how she has been doing family type of things with this guy (who's divorced- which actually wasn't his fault as he caught his wife cheating (yes, I know the guy)- and has kids of his own).

Basically as I write this, I am less than 24hrs from having everything come crashing down on me... .again.  I had always in the back of my mind expected this, but I had hoped she had changed her ways as she claimed she had (through therapy and medication).  It appears that she hasn't.  She tells me that she is confused as to why she hurt me, sad because she hasn't changed or i don't that she has, and devastated because she hates hurting people she loves.  I know that I have to detach from this to be healthy myself... .but I feel I am to weak to do so. 

I want her back so desperately, even though I know I can't 'stay' (she hasn't close the door but hasn't left it open either - its purgatory).  I have started the grieving process for losing her.  She is still in contact with me and she has said she's sorry for this and appears to be self loathing about what she has done.  Is it all an act?  I feel sure it is, but this is different than what happened 3 years ago.  I'm afraid to let go but know I can't hang on either.  I am in limbo.  Thank you all for your help, advice, and for listening.

[Lonely_Astro]

Hello all,

I posted my story (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=279824.0) here a couple of weeks ago.  I wanted to update and get advice or at the very least some support in what I'm going through. I posted my original story 11 July and would like to continue from where it left off:

On 12 July, I spoke to her off and on, but it was more pleasantries than anything else.  During the week, we had made amends for my behavior (as in my outburst) and believe that we had worked through it.  The following weekend (18 July) I was given the silent treatment again and given the excuse that her phone wasn't working correctly.  She had broken the screen a couple of weeks prior and it had been 'on the fritz' ever since.  It was funny to me that it worked fine during the week it seemed, but not on the weekend.  My suspicions began to further rise that we were coming to a critical point and she was going to leave.

This past weekend (25 July), the same thing had happened.  The day before things seemed to have been stabilizing as we were having conversations about the future (family, vacations together, etc.).  She told me that she had went to get her phone fixed that morning and that she wanted to see me after she was done.  I agreed.  She told me that she was headed back to our city and had planned to see me, but her mom was with her and that she still hoped to see me.  She was getting ready to go on vacation the next week and told me she had to pack.  As time went by, she kept telling me she had to pack until she suddenly stopped replying in the mid afternoon altogether.  She went silent the rest of the day (I had text her and called her, to no avail throughout the day) and she text me the following day saying that she had sent me several text and that I had never responded.  We continued contact the rest of Sunday, but she kept saying how she expected us to fight about her going on vacation with her family.  Where this had come from, I had no idea.  Of course when she had mentioned going on vacation with them, I asked why should would go with people that verbally and physically abuse her (according to her) and she would always say something of the effect that it was her family and they were paying and she had to get away 'from it all'.  I took that to be a slight against me, since we had been arguing off and on about seemly everything for the past several weeks.

Anyway, on the following Monday morning she text and told me that she had the day off as she had been expected to work.  We had arranged that I was going to see her on Monday (lunchtime, as evening was supposed to be booked for possibly leaving early for vacation), since she wasn't working.  She replied that she didn't know as her mom was off.  My response was that I didn't understand why her mother was a factor in her coming to have lunch with me, especially since she was about to leave for a weeks vacation.  She went silent again shortly there after.

I happened to go into the part of the office she works in and saw her boss (who I am friends with).  Since I knew she was supposed to be working that day, I asked where she was.  I was told she was off as an early vacation gift.  I responded that that was nice of them, that she needed the time away due to stress of her home life.  I was told by the boss that her home life must not be to terrible, as she has a new boyfriend.  I, of course, was flabbergasted (though I suppose I shouldn't have been).  Naturally, I inquired about this and was told the story of how she had been seeing an ex-employee 'for about a month' and proceeded to tell me all about it.  Needless to say, I was hurt.

I immediately contacted her and told her we had to meet immediately, to which she agreed.  She was irate when she arrived, wanting to know what she 'had done now'.  I told her that I knew she had been lying to me.  At first she denied, then she (fairly) coldly came clean about it.  She said that she had tried to tell me she was tired of being alone all the time and my blow up on the 10th had pushed her to go on a date with someone else.  She said that she had planned to tell me about him while she was on vacation or as soon as she had gotten back.  We talked for about 2 hours and a lot was said.  It ranges from she likes the new guy and wants to see where it could go because he's good to her and she likes him and he likes her, to she doesn't know where it would go, to she loves me but I'm not available (Im separated going through a divorce, like she allegedly is) and she can't wait for the future anymore, to she knows no one will ever love her like I do, and so on.  She denies sleeping with him (which may or may not be true) and denies that they've been 1-1 with each other (she says her 'dates' with him have been group hangouts and they've barely spoken then, its all been text.  The boss believes its more than that, as she told me how she has been doing family type of things with this guy (who's divorced- which actually wasn't his fault as he caught his wife cheating (yes, I know the guy)- and has kids of his own).

Basically as I write this, I am less than 24hrs from having everything come crashing down on me... .again.  I had always in the back of my mind expected this, but I had hoped she had changed her ways as she claimed she had (through therapy and medication).  It appears that she hasn't.  She tells me that she is confused as to why she hurt me, sad because she hasn't changed or i don't that she has, and devastated because she hates hurting people she loves.  I know that I have to detach from this to be healthy myself... .but I feel I am to weak to do so. 

I want her back so desperately, even though I know I can't 'stay' (she hasn't close the door but hasn't left it open either - its purgatory).  I have started the grieving process for losing her.  She is still in contact with me and she has said she's sorry for this and appears to be self loathing about what she has done.  Is it all an act?  I feel sure it is, but this is different than what happened 3 years ago.  I'm afraid to let go but know I can't hang on either.  I am in limbo.  Thank you all for your help, advice, and for listening.

[joeramabeme]

Hi Lonely, How are you doing with all this?

I'm afraid to let go but know I can't hang on either.  I am in limbo.

This is a tough spot to be in.  We all get here and are torn between wanting to be with our pwBPD traits and knowing that it may not be the best decision for our own well being. 

It is important to stay grounded as you process all this.  You sounded a little bit urgent... .  Do you have friends that understand what is going on that you can hang out and and talk with? 

[Lonely_Astro]

Hi Lonely, How are you doing with all this?

I'm afraid to let go but know I can't hang on either.  I am in limbo.

This is a tough spot to be in.  We all get here and are torn between wanting to be with our pwBPD traits and knowing that it may not be the best decision for our own well being. 

It is important to stay grounded as you process all this.  You sounded a little bit urgent... .  Do you have friends that understand what is going on that you can hang out and and talk with? 

Joeramabeme,

Thank you for asking how I am doing.  Really, I am still grieving.  It's only been 3 days since I found out about the other guy.  She has been in contact with me each day since, which probably isn't the best for me.  It is a sort of mix between silent treatment and not.  She's on vacation, so her text to me are hours apart - which I know is a form of abuse.  The text are getting shorter and further apart, which means full NC is coming soon.  As of the time of me writing this, I have not heard from her today.  I have not hit the anger stage of the grieving process (though I wish I could get there soon). 

Yesterday was a bit of a goodbye from me though.  The day before I was open about how I was feeling and I asked at the end of the day if she was still in contact with the new guy.  She told me she was "but not a lot" and that she had not seen him before she left, if I were wondering.  I responded with "thank you," and she replied "so, what you're done now?  I'm being as honest as possible here."  I replied that I was simply saying thank you for telling me the truth.  She said "I'm sorry."  I didn't reply because I was going to go sleep.

The next day, she contacted me telling me she had been sitting alone on the beach all morning, upset that her condition had gotten the better of her and wishing she wasn't around at all.  I decided I would send my goodbye text to her, not out of spite but out of hope she'll get help and that she does matter.  I can't heal if I'm talking to her and I also know she isn't going to stop seeing that guy, she has given into her condition.  I validated her love for me over the past several months and told her I was sorry for not being able to be there for her like she wanted me to be.  I also told her to be kind to herself and the new guy, as they have a clean slate (as in no history like her and I do) and I wished them luck and success (not in a facetious way, in the way that I care for her and know we aren't compatible and I do hope she finds that "true love" she's been looking for... .even if I do feel that was me).  I also told her to never settle for anything less than everything, because that's what she deserves, and never let anyone have just part of her (as she is always worried someone only wants her for sex because of her attractiveness - yes I have seen many NPD traits in her before- and we had talked at length about how sex was sacred to her and trust issues that surrounded it from both of us, which made me surprised when we did physically connect).  The physical aspect of the relationship didn't really last long before she lost interest (she always had an excuse to not be intimate).

I feel like what happened was my fault, maybe its FOG, because all this started as my marriage was falling apart and I couldn't be with her all the time, even though I did what I could when I could.  I was always open with Jane about what was going on in my life, it seems now she wasn't with me (even though she swore up and down she was).  She also wanted to keep everything a secret because she was getting a divorce as well (my attorney advised against dating openly as it could complicate things, as did hers, according to her).  My process is taking a lot longer due to assets/kids and I haven't been rushing it either.  So, I stop and think maybe, just maybe, I did cause her to slip back and I did trigger her breakdown... .basically that all this is my fault.  Maybe she was strong and better and by getting involved with me, I caused her to slip.  Maybe my paranoia of had she changed or not drove her away.  I just don't know.

On the other hand, in the past few days I've been talking to our mutual friend (who didn't know Jane and I were seeing each other, but does now) and she told me that she wished she had known all this time because she would've warned me about Jane awhile back.  Going back a bit, Jane and I reconnected around August/September (friendly, non romantic talk) and seriously talking (romantically) around October/November.  At that point, I wasn't separated, which Jane knew.  My marriage wasn't a happy one on both ends and we were already discussing what we were going to do.  Jane had supposedly moved out of Mike's house and was getting a divorce (which had allegedly started July/August of 2014).  Essentially an affair was started between Jane and me.  Nothing physical between us had happened, we were just emotionally involved.  I said to her many times that I didn't know how long all this would take and if she ever felt she needed to move on for her to tell me.  Affairs are hard enough on regular people and I knew that this arrangement would be even more tough on her, I even told her I felt that way because of her condition.  She assured me that she understood and said that she had to go through the "stuff" with Mike too and it would be "ok" because she would have the one she knew loved her for her.  It was a sweet statement, but I knew it was going to be tough.

So, we moved forward with our relationship, in it's clandestine state.  After the physical separation with my soon to be ex, I told Jane I was ready to openly date and I would deal with the court stuff however.  She said she didn't want to do that because of her still pending divorce and was worried my ex would use my dating as a way to hurt me when it came to seeing my child and that her (alleged) soon to be ex may hurt her or us because he is so abusive (a reason, according to the mutual friend as to why she's not openly dating the new guy - her divorce isn't final.  Even though she does family things with him, they have yet to leave his hometown according to her, which she actually seemed to be complaining about).  Jane wouldn't ever come over to my place because she was worried that my ex would see her car in the driveway or something like that.  We couldn't go to her place because she was living with her parents.  It reminded me a lot of being a teenager again, really.  All the sneaking around to see each other and whatnot.  It was taxing in its own right, but I figured it would be what it would be - and it would all be worth it.

Anyway, my friend was telling me that she couldn't remember when exactly but a few months ago Jane had moved back in with Mike to attempt to repair her marriage.  She couldn't remember when it was exactly, but it was a few months ago.  I am operating on the presumption that this was during the time with me.  Maybe it was just before, I don't know.  I do remember Jane telling me that she had moved out but moved back in to try to work it out but Mike was to abusive and she left (that would've been June/July of 2014).  That was claimed to be a month or so before we started talking again.  I guess I'll never know if she was living with Mike while talking to me.  At this point, I have to presume it was, but I have no idea where she found the time to see me if she was.  Its mind racking.  Though, as I type this, I guess it makes sense since Mike works night shift - she easily could've talked to me during the night and I would see her during the day.  I didn't see her much evenings, now that I think of it, for one reason or another.  Plus, she is telling the friend that her divorce to Mike will be final "any day now", even though no paperwork has been filed. 

So, here I am still trying to figure out if I were the cause of this backslide or if she had even really changed from 3 years ago.  I did see a different person this time around (or at least I feel like I did) but was I just seeing something different because I had changed in the 3 years we didn't speak?  During our talk, she said that she lashed out against me because she couldn't be with me and my blow up.  Basically, she said it was my fault that she's with the new guy because she was tired of being alone, even though I tried to see/be with her as much as I could.  She also was bad mouthing the new guy during the conversation because he works several jobs and how "alone" she already felt around him.  That, to me, was a bizarre statement.  I guess I think Jane shows me her "true" self and shows everyone else her false self.  I know that the new guy doesn't have a clue that she has BPD or what he's getting into and I feel bad for that.  I also know it isn't my place to tell him.  I feel bad for her at the same time, because I do feel like I could've prevented this somehow, and I'm also worried she's going to be used just for sex by this new guy (he has a reputation for such things - even when he was married).  But, I suppose, that is her choice.

I don't have many people to talk to about this because 1. it was secret and 2. most people have no clue she is BPD (or even know what BPD is).  A close friend of mine who knew I was seeing her has been my sounding board, but he doesn't understand how well a BPD can create enmeshment, rumination, and co-dependency. 

I guess, in the end, that I should've always known it would end this way.  I feel guilty because I feel like I lead to it happening again because I entered into a relationship with her not in the proper way.

[joeramabeme]

Lonely_Astro,

What a familiar story this all is.  Not minimizing what you are saying, rather pointing out that much of what you have written has a familiar dynamic with many others here, you have a friend(s)!

I was always open with Jane about what was going on in my life, it seems now she wasn't with me (even though she swore up and down she was). 

You know this is one of the traps we find ourselves in.  We are taking responsibility for fostering a healthy relationship by doing our part.  We think there is reciprocation but cannot see the other variables that drive the thought process of our pwBPD.  It is a slippery road to a full understanding of our partners.  On the one hand they are just like us and want what we want.  Unlike us, they are not able to fully understand themselves and due to their mental illness, sabotage the very same that they are looking for.

You mentioned the FOG!  Good!  You know about some of the variables that are driving your thoughts, feelings and actions.  When you begin to come out of Obligation, Fear and Guilt associated with the relationship you can see the person more holistically.  Not all at once, that takes time, but pieces become evident.  For example, you can see the contradiction between her words and actions, that is a big sign and has nothing to do with you.

So where are you at now?  Has she texted you back?  Have you spent any time on this site in the "Lessons" section?  There is great information there and here on these postings.  Keep reading and learning.  You will start to see the disconnect and the FOG will slowly lift.

Give yourself some time.  Have you been posted since this one?

[Lonely_Astro]

Lonely_Astro,

What a familiar story this all is.  Not minimizing what you are saying, rather pointing out that much of what you have written has a familiar dynamic with many others here, you have a friend(s)!

I was always open with Jane about what was going on in my life, it seems now she wasn't with me (even though she swore up and down she was). 

You know this is one of the traps we find ourselves in.  We are taking responsibility for fostering a healthy relationship by doing our part.  We think there is reciprocation but cannot see the other variables that drive the thought process of our pwBPD.  It is a slippery road to a full understanding of our partners.  On the one hand they are just like us and want what we want.  Unlike us, they are not able to fully understand themselves and due to their mental illness, sabotage the very same that they are looking for.

You mentioned the FOG!  Good!  You know about some of the variables that are driving your thoughts, feelings and actions.  When you begin to come out of Obligation, Fear and Guilt associated with the relationship you can see the person more holistically.  Not all at once, that takes time, but pieces become evident.  For example, you can see the contradiction between her words and actions, that is a big sign and has nothing to do with you.

So where are you at now?  Has she texted you back?  Have you spent any time on this site in the "Lessons" section?  There is great information there and here on these postings.  Keep reading and learning.  You will start to see the disconnect and the FOG will slowly lift.

Give yourself some time.  Have you been posted since this one?

Right now I am taking it a day at a time.  I think I am starting to move toward the anger phase of letting go because I feel dumb for falling for her twice.  I'm also beginning to get angry with her for misleading me after all the talks we had.  I do believe there were moments of lucidity in her (more so at the beginning) but I also think she was just in pain because of how "bad" Mike is (though our mutual friend has told me things they had overheard Mike say to Jane, so he probably was a somewhat abusive guy, but I wonder how much of Jane brought out the anger in him - she excels at that) and reached out to someone she remembered cared about her.  Not making an excuse for his anger, just saying that we don't know what he was going through at the time.

3 years ago, I had read pretty much everything that I could about BPD and I talked with my therapist (3 years ago) about Jane, at length.  I also read the lessons and other people's struggles on this site.  It helped me bring the closure I needed then and I still browse them right now to get direction.  I was confident that I would never fall for her antics again, but I was mislead and did.  I bear responsibility for seeing the great attractive woman I thought she had blossomed into, even though it turned out to be a false image.  She said that I never gave her a genuine chance to prove to me that she was different, but that was in fact a lie... .I gave more of a genuine chance than I should have.

I am currently two days in to NC.  She has not texted me since Wed. night (and honestly it wasn't much of a text.  After my "goodbye and good luck" speech, she replied several hours later saying she had just saw the text and she would reply soon.  Several hours after that, she replied with "this made me cry my eyes out all day."  I did reply telling her that I would always be a silent cheerleader for her and hoped that if she ever chose to truly get help that we could talk on the other side).  I realize that that may have left a door open in her mind, but for me I would speak to her again, not as a romantic, but as to congratulate her on her journey.  I should never speak to her again for what she's done, but I also realize she is ill and is a person too.  That doesn't excuse her, but it helps me have understanding and closure.  Its hard sometimes for people to see BPD's as people, but it is true that they are all different.  In the beginning, she was different.  But it didn't take long for that different Jane to become the 'old' Jane.  In her mind, she still feels that she isn't the same woman she was three years ago, even though she's exactly the same... .she just has better camouflage and has honed her skills.  I know and see that now.

I am more anxious about what is going to happen Monday when she comes back to work.  I don't know if she'll avoid me or try to engage me or what.  I know she would be extremely displeased if she knew to what extent her boss and I have talked over the past few days (and what revelations have found there way to me as a result, making me feel even more like an idiot).  Her new boyfriend has Mondays off, so I suspect since she's been apart from him for a week she'll be to infatuated to see him to think about me at all.  Luckily I have a business trip coming up that will keep me away from the office for 3 weeks, so that will put some distance/time away from face to face contact.  That will help me heal.  I am still grieving the loss of Jane.  Not the real Jane, but the Jane that was real to me.

That still doesn't make it any less of a struggle for me.  As I told my friend today when they asked how I was doing, I replied "I'm like a drug addict.  I want just one more hit.  I know I don't need it and if I take one more I'll want one more, but I still want it."  I'm still looking at my phone every few minutes hoping to see her flash across the screen, to just know that she had at least a passing thought of me.  Even though I know I'm no where near her thoughts, I still hope for it.  Time will make that recede, I know.  The killer days for me are going to be Monday and the following weekend.  Because I'll "know" what she'll be doing.  I could be surprised, but I don't see the new flame burning bright for long.  Like I said, she was already complaining to me Monday about how alone she was starting to feel with him.  As she put it to me that they were all hanging out with a group: "I was surrounded by people and he was there, but I felt totally alone."  What she doesn't understand is that is how she's going to feel until she decides to go to therapy for real and work on her issues... .no amount of meds (which I know she does take, Ive seen them) is going to magically 'fix' what is fundamentally flawed in her.

[Lonely_Astro]

I wanted to take a minute to talk about day 3 of NC.  Today wasn't really an easy day.  I've spent the better part of it talking to her in my head.  I know that she came home today from vacation and it's been tearing me up the last half of the evening because I know she's back.  In my head she's rushed to her new flame (he works nights) to be with him as soon as she arrived.  She'll be in his bed tonight and waiting on him in the morning, to cook his breakfast or lunch or whatever.  This may all be a fantasy, but I also know how things were with us and thats how I see it playing out since she has full access to him and is showing him how perfect of a catch she is... .how attentive and dutiful she is.  How treating her right leads to such a glorious reward of her loving him so intensely.

Yes, today was a struggle to not reach back out and see if she would talk to me.  I know I have to stay firm and not give in, it truly is the only answer.  Every thing she is giving him right now won't last, it's only a matter of time before it all crashes down on him, too.

I have a feeling tomorrow will be even worse for me in my head.  I am not looking forward to Monday, either.

I just had to get that out there.