Validation... need suggestions... I read the lesson again

[byfaith]

Need some help with validation…. I went back and read the lesson on validation.

I am struggling here.  Let me try to give a little back story. I have four kids D27, D24, D22, S20.  None of them live with my wife and me. My wife has a S30 who lives with us who suffers with paranoid schizophrenia and the effects of a stroke he had when he was 19. The SZ is what really is the disabler for him right now and his own lack of motivation to do anything. My wife is uBPD. She has a lack of motivation to live life right now. 

Some people keep their minds focused in the past. I wish I would have had…A dad that treated me that way (she sees someone talking to a daughter in a constructive way and loving). This is a constant thing not just every now and again. I wish I would have raised my son differently. I wish I would not have hung around the wrong people….the list goes on.

Here is where we are. My wife will not come right out and say it but she says enough for me to know she is either resentful of my kids for having a life or she is jealous. I can only go by what I hear. It would be nice if everyone embraced someone that had paranoid SZ. My kids are cordial to my stepson but they have not included him in their life.

There has been much strife between my wife and my kids and some other family members. My wife had sent many emails out “defending” herself.  My kids were emotionally hurt and my wife was emotionally hurt times ten because of the BPD. Things have settled down over the past year. My wife and daughters are not close but they are cordial when around each other.

I said all that to come to this point. My D27 was having an affair with someone.  The man left his wife and daughter for my daughter. Now the divorce proceedings are going on but my D27 is living with this person. My kids were brought up in a Christian home. She knows what she is doing is wrong according to what she was taught. I finally sat down and talked with her about it after six months and asked her some questions and posed some concerns to her.

My wife who is not close to my D27 but seemed to be concerned for my daughters well being wanted to discuss this issue with me before I spoke with my daughter. She made suggestions to me on how I should approach the situation. She said you should make some notes on what you want to say I said yes I have thought about that and I think that is a good idea. My wife wanted to sit down with me and do it with me. I really didn’t have a problem with that. Here is where the problem came in. I ran out of time to make that list and sit down with my wife.

Because I went and spoke with my daughter and did not sit down with my wife and get her input like we talked about there was a blow up.  We discussed the situation together it  just never got to the point of sitting down and writing things out (like she wanted)

When I left to go speak with my daughter my wife told me how disappointed she was in me and that I acted like I didn’t even care about my daughters situation. Those were not nicely spoken words. I said I am sorry you feel that way and I had to leave. My wife basically slept for the next three days because of this. I spoke with her last night and she told me that she detached herself because she felt like she was pushed away and felt stupid for caring in the first place.  She said It was all my fault she had no respect for me (I know it’s not my fault). I was cavalier with such an important subject, I was told. This situation with my daughter has laid heavy on my heart for a long time. I was being attacked by my wife. My wife said I opened up to you and you pushed me away.   I was at a loss for words other than saying I am sorry you felt like I left you out. I respected her feelings. The only thing I said in my defense was I got lazy and did not sit down with you like we discussed. As far as she is concerned this will always be my fault that she got “shoved away”

How do I validate her feelings without just saying, yes it’s my fault. I did say your feelings are your feelings and I am not dismissing your feelings, I said I just don’t know what else to say.

What could I have done better? I let her talk. I did not JADE.  I did not bring up the 100 times when she has disappointed me. 

I feel like my marriage is lived in detachment mode

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[MaroonLiquid]

When I left to go speak with my daughter my wife told me how disappointed she was in me and that I acted like I didn’t even care about my daughters situation. Those were not nicely spoken words. I said I am sorry you feel that way and I had to leave. My wife basically slept for the next three days because of this. I spoke with her last night and she told me that she detached herself because she felt like she was pushed away and felt stupid for caring in the first place.  She said It was all my fault she had no respect for me (I know it’s not my fault). I was cavalier with such an important subject, I was told. This situation with my daughter has laid heavy on my heart for a long time. I was being attacked by my wife. My wife said I opened up to you and you pushed me away.   I was at a loss for words other than saying I am sorry you felt like I left you out. I respected her feelings. The only thing I said in my defense was I got lazy and did not sit down with you like we discussed. As far as she is concerned this will always be my fault that she got “shoved away”

     I believe I can help here.  First, by saying you got lazy is JADEing (its an excuse) and it isn't the truth.  I'm going to be flat out honest with you here.  When she felt "shoved away", you made her feel like her opinion didn't matter.  Maybe it was because you felt like that is your child and you know her better.  Women LOVE to feel heard and that their opinion matters.  I have learned that my wife actually has very good insight if I take the time to listen.  

     I would have said, "I can see why you felt shoved away.  I didn't take the time to listen to your input and that is disrespectful to you as my wife.  That is hurtful and if that had happened to me, I would have felt the same way.  I'm sorry."  That is a case where I would have apologized, ONE TIME and asked for forgiveness.  Then let her speak and get whatever out she wanted to say.

[byfaith]

that is some good advice. I just needed a different perspective. Do you think it's too late for me to go back and tell her that? It makes sense. I was seeing mostly from my side.

[MaroonLiquid]

that is some good advice. I just needed a different perspective. Do you think it's too late for me to go back and tell her that? It makes sense. I was seeing mostly from my side.

I'm not being hard, just wanted to be honest.  I have kids and grew up in the "only seeing my side" household.  I have had to learn and teach myself to be way more empathetic!  It has helped in my r/s with my wife big time.  I don't think it's ever too late to do that.  Make sure you mean it though.  You aren't responsible for her reaction to your apology, but you are responsible for the apology.  This would hurt any woman, not just one with a PD.  She may rage at you, say you don't mean it, or be hurtful to make herself feel better.  If that happens, tell her you will leave the room until things calm down and the two of you can talk calmly.  Only apologize once.  Just remember that in the future, women have a huge desire to feel heard and have their opinion respected, even if you don't take their advice or input.  Women have an "intuition" for a reason.  

[ColdEthyl]

byfaith,

I want to jump in here and say I have a brother age 30 who is paranoid schizophrenic who I take care of, and there is tension time to time between him and my dBPDh. They are similar in some ways, but the two kinds of 'crazy' rub each other wrong sometimes.

"Because I went and spoke with my daughter and did not sit down with my wife and get her input like we talked about there was a blow up.  We discussed the situation together it  just never got to the point of sitting down and writing things out (like she wanted)"

I have D15 and S10 at home. My husband is the step-father. There are times where he tries to be involved, and I have done something like this not realizing how important it was to him, how he felt that his word didn't mean anything because I didn't respond right away, or fully listen. He has blown up and said he won't care anymore then, obviously I don't care about his opinion, etc etc

I don't think it's ever too late to talk to her. When I have stepped back and realized my part in the situation, I have gone and told my husband that I understand his side of things, and I apologize for not listening, or not talking more about that subject, etc. He is always responsive, feels better, and sometimes will apologize, too.

[byfaith]

thanks everyone... .this has helped me out a lot. I have had a hard time articulating my situations on these boards. I hope I can be more successful in using them. I can't do this from home so I am limited.

Thank you for sharing that you have a brother who is paranoid Schizophrenic. Sometimes I feel all alone in this other than talking to God about the situation. My stepson and my wife have some enmeshment going on. To outsiders it is hard to explain so I don't. 

[ColdEthyl]

thanks everyone... .this has helped me out a lot. I have had a hard time articulating my situations on these boards. I hope I can be more successful in using them. I can't do this from home so I am limited.

Thank you for sharing that you have a brother who is paranoid Schizophrenic. Sometimes I feel all alone in this other than talking to God about the situation. My stepson and my wife have some enmeshment going on. To outsiders it is hard to explain so I don't. 

*Nods* I understand that. I have been raising my brother since he was 13, and for a long time we were co-dependent on each other. Then my now husband came along and the dynamic changed, and that's when he had some real issues. He had to be hospitalized for a few weeks because he was leaving notes for my husband to find like putting a piece of paper that read "watch your back" in his laptop and telling me he made food "especially for me" with a evil grin on his face. *shudders* that was a scary time... .and it's always in the back of our minds that it could happen again or worse. But, what can we do? We don't have long term mental facilities like we used to, and the few I could find we cannot afford. We can't throw him out on the streets so... .we just are constantly on guard. He hasn't done a thing even remotely close for 5 years now, but stuff like that doesn't leave you.

Yeah... .I can't explain this stuff to outsiders, either. Unless you have had to take care of someone mentally ill... it's hard to understand. I also only use this board from work so my H doesn't see it. Try not to be too hard on yourself. All of us can look at a situation in hindsight and see what we could have done differently, and that's OK. From the 'failures' we learn valuable tools for the next time