In Dire Need of Advice - 2nd break up of 4 year relationship with BPD X - Part 1

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I really don't even know where to start. I have been in a long-term relationship with an untreated borderline for the past 4 years. I am in a really bad situation right now. This is the 2nd time we have broken up. I could really use some advice. THIS WILL BE LONG SO PLEASE BEAR WITH ME.

I am not sure how to summarize 4 years of crazy history and ups and downs. I met my ex about a year after my dad passed away of cancer when I was 25. I was 26 when we met and she was 23. I had been in grief counseling for a year and was in a good place. I lost my other parent as a small child and had become an adult orphan when he died. I have a close stepfamily, as my dad remarried when I was 17, but the only other family I really have is my dad's cousins, one of which is my godmom, and my uncle and his wife. I grew up in a very structured, upper middle class home. I went to a college prepatory school for most of my schooling, until we moved out of state at the end of junior year and I attended public high school. My grandmother helped my dad raise me after my mom passed. I was very close with my family. I have always been a good kid and grew up to be a responsible adult. Though, I was probably a little enmeshed with my father. we have always been very close, though we had some serious problems when I was in high school. Losing him was the hardest thing in my life. He died of bone marrow cancer and I took care of him the whole almost 3 years he was suffering, while trying to hold it together and finish college. I did all of that and went on to graduate school after he passed. My ex, came from a very different background: she is native American, her mom is a classic borderline (promiscuous, 4 kids from different guys, several failed marriages all due to her infidelity, lies about things, in debt, impulsive spending, has been abusive, is controlling and overbearing, puts her relationships with men ahead of her children, etc)... .my ex had a difficult childhood... at times she was in a lower class home but over time, her mom has managed to raise the economic status to lower middle class. her mom does have a degree from college and has managed to hold a job with her tribe. the longest her mom stayed with one man was 9 to 10 years, only for my ex to find out she was cheating on her stepdad for most of the time with other men... her mom left her stepdad 2 years into our relationship for another man and divorced him right before xmas, kicking him out of their family home... making up a lie about him cheating as well to justify her behavior. the other guy moved in a month later. she has since moved on to another guy who is living in her house now. This really messed up my ex in the head and created problems for us in our own relationship. My ex's mom is also homophobic, which I did not find out until 6 to 7  months into our relationship. In fact, my ex lied to me about her background and history up until that point. She hid her past from me and lied about dropping out of college and what she did for a living in the past... .said that she has never dated a guy and her mom has known and is ok with her sexuality... .she constructed this false self of a person who grew up similar to me in a stable home environment and has been out for a while with accepting parents... her best friend burst her bubble one day and revealed a lie to me by accident in passing conversation, after that, the lies about her just kept coming out. The only bad thing she never lied about was that she got a DUI a year before meeting me, but said she was remorseful over it and wanted to change... that she wanted to stop hanging out with the unsavory people who drink too much and kind of float around in life.

After the lies came out, I was upset. I felt like I didn't know her. At first, she was apologetic and seemed contrite... but eventually she would respond in anger that she got caught and would say things like "you are judgmental" or "fine, you don't want me. Im not good enough for you, I will just get my stuff and leave"... .she never once actually apologized for lying.  I also began to see that she has an alcohol issue. When she would start drinking, she cant stop and would become out of control - emotional and sometimes aggressive out of nowhere. I also saw how impulsive she could be with her spending and finances... .there were also times where she seemed disengaged... .and she was less willing to  communicate.

[CharWood]

I really don't even know where to start. I have been in a long-term relationship with an untreated borderline for the past 4 years. I am in a really bad situation right now. This is the 2nd time we have broken up. I could really use some advice. THIS WILL BE LONG SO PLEASE BEAR WITH ME.

I am not sure how to summarize 4 years of crazy history and ups and downs. I met my ex about a year after my dad passed away of cancer when I was 25. I was 26 when we met and she was 23. I had been in grief counseling for a year and was in a good place. I lost my other parent as a small child and had become an adult orphan when he died. I have a close stepfamily, as my dad remarried when I was 17, but the only other family I really have is my dad's cousins, one of which is my godmom, and my uncle and his wife. I grew up in a very structured, upper middle class home. I went to a college prepatory school for most of my schooling, until we moved out of state at the end of junior year and I attended public high school. My grandmother helped my dad raise me after my mom passed. I was very close with my family. I have always been a good kid and grew up to be a responsible adult. Though, I was probably a little enmeshed with my father. we have always been very close, though we had some serious problems when I was in high school. Losing him was the hardest thing in my life. He died of bone marrow cancer and I took care of him the whole almost 3 years he was suffering, while trying to hold it together and finish college. I did all of that and went on to graduate school after he passed. My ex, came from a very different background: she is native American, her mom is a classic borderline (promiscuous, 4 kids from different guys, several failed marriages all due to her infidelity, lies about things, in debt, impulsive spending, has been abusive, is controlling and overbearing, puts her relationships with men ahead of her children, etc)... .my ex had a difficult childhood... at times she was in a lower class home but over time, her mom has managed to raise the economic status to lower middle class. her mom does have a degree from college and has managed to hold a job with her tribe. the longest her mom stayed with one man was 9 to 10 years, only for my ex to find out she was cheating on her stepdad for most of the time with other men... her mom left her stepdad 2 years into our relationship for another man and divorced him right before xmas, kicking him out of their family home... making up a lie about him cheating as well to justify her behavior. the other guy moved in a month later. she has since moved on to another guy who is living in her house now. This really messed up my ex in the head and created problems for us in our own relationship. My ex's mom is also homophobic, which I did not find out until 6 to 7  months into our relationship. In fact, my ex lied to me about her background and history up until that point. She hid her past from me and lied about dropping out of college and what she did for a living in the past... .said that she has never dated a guy and her mom has known and is ok with her sexuality... .she constructed this false self of a person who grew up similar to me in a stable home environment and has been out for a while with accepting parents... her best friend burst her bubble one day and revealed a lie to me by accident in passing conversation, after that, the lies about her just kept coming out. The only bad thing she never lied about was that she got a DUI a year before meeting me, but said she was remorseful over it and wanted to change... that she wanted to stop hanging out with the unsavory people who drink too much and kind of float around in life.

After the lies came out, I was upset. I felt like I didn't know her. At first, she was apologetic and seemed contrite... but eventually she would respond in anger that she got caught and would say things like "you are judgmental" or "fine, you don't want me. Im not good enough for you, I will just get my stuff and leave"... .she never once actually apologized for lying.  I also began to see that she has an alcohol issue. When she would start drinking, she cant stop and would become out of control - emotional and sometimes aggressive out of nowhere. I also saw how impulsive she could be with her spending and finances... .there were also times where she seemed disengaged... .and she was less willing to  communicate.

[CharWood]

I threatened to leave after things went downhill about 8 months in and she wised up for about a year and seemed to make an effort. Things were good for a while, though her mom continued to try and get in the middle of things by trying to bail my ex out by lending money out and doing other things to not let my adult ex run her own life.

about 2 years in, the divorce happened. My ex went nutso. She got plastered one night and got violent out of nowhere. I asked her to go to her mom's house and of course her mom's answer was "well, you were made to act that way because it is not a healthy relationship. you need to leave... blah blah... making me the bad guy. My ex half assed apologized for being abusive and violent but never actually took accountability and said sorry. I reluctantly let  my ex come back home after she was gone for 2 days after there was a promise made to get counseling but over the next 3 months, the behavior was yo yo, up and down. 3 months in, I had dealt with my ex striking up weird emotional cheating relationships with lowlifes on the internet (one girl had her mug shot up from DUIs and was a total lowlife), her drinking more, and her being hot cold on me... .I thought she would change but didn't. So, I kicked her out. This was back in February 2014. It was the first break up.

She took most of her stuff that time but left some of it behind. At this time, we had separate phones and accounts, so there was nothing to separate. She kept the key to the condo. She went to her mom's and left. She deleted me off of facebook and went radio silent on me for a little over a week. She popped back up after a week asking if she can come get her stuff. She went by my house one day after work to get her stuff but ended up leaving it behind "by accident" and telling me how right I was about the internet creeps and how sorry she is for her behavior, but letting me know I have anger problems and that she wants to be friends and make a trip down to dallas in 2.5 weeks with me... .it was crazy, I agreed to be friends... .she made it seem like she had zero interest in getting back together... but when we did end up going to dallas with friends... .she admitted she had feelings and within a week we got back together. Same promise of ill go to counseling (never happened)... .she gave up drinking and seemed to be changed for the next 2 months, behaving more responsibly.  her mom was not happy we reconciled. and, due to her mom's craziness, we decided to move to FL to my hometown to get a fresh start.  we combined our accounts for bills and money and planned on starting a family after we both get stable. I have a great job at a big company here and am up for a promotion soon. She also found a job that pays higher than she has ever been able to make (though she largely depended on me for help with resumes and etc)

For the first year and a month or two, it was fine here. she seemed to have turn herself around. she got herself out of debt, paid off her car, was planning to go back to school, no more drinking, was better about communicating, was more open... .I felt like things would get better... I even had her convinced to start counseling in the summer... .then her mom came down and brought extreme borderline craziness to the house... .flew some guy out here and ruined xmas when she had another guy living at the house... .and my ex and her mom ended up getting in to it in our living room... her mom came out for the first time and said our lifestyle was disgusting and she doesn't ever approve but deals with it and etc. My ex kicked her mom out. They did not really speak for a couple of months.

In may, my ex was trying to convert everything to Florida residency. My ex's mom got involved and threw a fit because she was cutting her final ties back home and probably realized her chances of my ex coming home and leaving me were dwindling... .my ex and I argued when I tried to point out her  mom was being manipulative and did my best to help her... .we had a blowout fight... my ex is childish and relies a lot on either me or her mom to help her handle adult issues and priorities. After this blowout, her 20 year old college dropout sister asked to live with us and work and go to school, conveniently. I said no. but she ended up coming anyway. She lived in our house for 3 weeks mooching off of my ex... .we found out she never had a job and has lied about her work history. she also has a history of stealing money out of people's wallets and spends a lot of time getting attention on social media and meeting and talking to guys. she came to us because her ex boyfriend, who is stable and a lot like me, kicked her out of his house after she dropped out of school and lied about working. her sister and mom stirred the pot during this time. the sister brought alcohol back in the house and my ex got drunk again for the first time in a long time and we fought.  they had convinced her to quit her job and leave me... which she agreed to but the next day said she loved me and did not want to go back or leave. she said she would compromise and agree to go back with her sister and visit for 3 weeks then come back home.

End of June, she left with her sister. The first 2 weeks she was gone was normal... but then she started acting weird. I noticed alcohol charges pop up on our  joint account... I also noticed she was texting someone from the past who had an inappropriate interest in her... I also saw that our phone calls were less and less and most often times we were speaking, either her mom or sister was standing over her. By the time the last week she was there rolled around, she went off the deep end... I noticed a lot of strange FL numbers pop up on our cell phone bill and discovered she was talking to GUYS off the internet. I know her mom had been pushing her, telling her that her sexuality is a phase and her relationship with me ruined the family... but I had no idea her mom could get in her head and make it come to that... .one of the guys she was talking to is a loser who got obsessive and started contacting her all hours of the day (34 years old, works at cricket wireless, lives with his grandpa, has never owned property or got an education, ex military, and when I checked his background I found out he is a pedophile who knocked up and married a 14 year old girl when he was in his early twenties.) I tried telling her all of this but she ignored me and said that she and her mom think I am controlling... .right before she came back, her mom helped her separate all of our accounts... she told me on the phone the day before returning to FL that she will live with a former coworker, a 53 year old lesbian lady who is financially struggling herself and has a pretty cruddy apartment on a rough side of town, until she "gets on her feet", that she is taking her stuff and leaving... she first said this lady will pick her up and take her to the airport but then called last minute and asked me to do it because "there was a misunderstanding"

the day after I picked her up, she came back to the house, let herself in and got most of her stuff (nothing but clothes, personal records and a laptop really) and left. That crazy even made herself a cup of coffee like it did not even matter. Later that day, she drove up to about an hour and a half away where the pedophile lives and hung out with him and met him in person. This guy is so unstable that he sent me a facebook message the day before she arrived back, before he even met her in person after talking to her on the phone for only a week, and told me to "stay away from her or I will pin you to the wall" ( ok hair club for men. whatever you say, beergut mcpedophile)  so, he must not be mentally stable himself. I was incensed and resolved to never speak with her again.

I didn't hear from her for 4 days until she started texting me about mail, and which box I put what in, and tried to con me into giving her the last paycheck that went into our account back. a week after she left, she called me crying one night saying she missed the pets and how bad her situation is, asked if I could see her... .during this meeting, I tried to ask her what happened. All she would say is that her mom doesn't want us together but she cannot go into details why and "throw her mom under the bus"... .she said someday she will have to learn to stand up to her mom... .she said the guy thing grosses her out and she was trying to make her mom happy... .that this guy isn't in the picture anymore... .she says that aside from her mom's interference, she didn't want to be with me because her mom is right about me being controlling and that I am judgmental and have a temper ( we argued often about her impulsivity with spending and her being on her phone all the time... .I am not perfect but most of the time I tried to communicate with her and she just shut down or got immature and defensive... it grew tiring always having to be her parent and I lost patience after a while, especially when I would have to deal with her being drunk) ... she did not make it seem like she wants to be back together but  said something like "maybe if it works between us in the future... ."

after this, she has gone through a pattern where she contacts me for  few days at a time and then goes limited contact or no contact for 2 to 4 days... at times, it seemed like she only would contact me when she is lonely (she chose to stay here in my hometown because she "is already here and did not want to go live back in her hometown because it is boring"... .and she barely knows anyone here at all). There is very hot and cold behavior... .most of the time, it seems like she is contacting me only for help or advice. sometimes, she does it without a reason (loneliness?)... .she has a very low paying new job now and has little money... she has been impulsively spending on clothes and other things and, I believe, has started drinking again , though she lies to me and says she doesn't anymore (im deleted off facebook and she has made posts of herself hanging out late at night when she works early in the morning drinking with her coworkers) she also traded in the car she paid off last fall for a new one and has a high car payment and high insurance and this eats up about half of her income. She involved me in her car purchase for advice. I advised against it but did end up saving her from getting a more expensive car with higher mileage on it.  After she bought the car, she hung out with me and was very hot and cold, insulting me one minute but grabbing my arm and asking if I want to make a trip to Miami with her in 2 weeks... .There is still also the complication of her mom and sister... .if they knew we were speaking they would cut her off and her mom would take away her phone. I got fed up and we argued back at the house in my driveway. She was constantly saying she doesn't care about me in that way anymore and finds me "ew" but got very angry over the fact I am hanging out with new friends and jealous.  I told her that I have lost feelings for her and that I do not want my family knowing we are speaking as friends either because I don't want them to think we are back together. She sped off and took off to see that pedophile guy again, though they weren't talking for the last 2 to 3 weeks and broadcasted it on facebook, where my family and our friends saw.

After that, she constructed a crisis to get me to see her again... .and again the last couple of times I saw her this week... .the last time I saw her, she was acting a bit crazy but was a bit nicer to me... .she complained that the lady was being mean and giving her attitude, leaving notes on her door and told her that the landlord says she has 2 months before she has to leave... .she said she cant afford an apartment now and will have to save up money and then said... .Ill move out tomorrow if I have to ! I did not give her a reaction, I just tried to be nice and listen. we worked out together and had a nice time as friends hanging out... but it felt like old times... she seemed back to the woman I know and love for a little bit... until the end of the night when she left and got icy cold. she asked if I wanted to work out the next day and I said ok... .an hour before we were supposed to meet (this was last Friday) she even texted me and said she will be there... .I went to meet her and she didn't show. I waited a half hour. I called her and it was bizarre... .sounded like she was crying... .was freaking out that her per cap check from her tribe didn't arrive... .asked me to check my mail, I told her it wont come to my house because she changed her mail and why would her mom, who hates me, send it to my address? she never answered the question... .I told her it was rude of her to decide to go straight home from work and never show up. She brushed it off and said she is tired... .she was very emotionally shut down and said she is busy working the next day, cant see me because she has a cookout after work... .I got frustrated with her and asked if she was gonna go see the pedophile... .she was indifferent and laughed and said "why would I go there? it doesn't matter anyway"... .I hung up with her... .later that night I went out with mutual friends... .an hour later, she posted herself sitting at an apartment balcony drinking with her coworkers saying she was hanging out... .she had to work Saturday at 8am. A few friends said they felt she got upset I was out.  I will admit, after our phone call, I texted her some things saying that I may be around now to help when its convenient for you but she will have to figure out how to deal when I am not around anymore... .she did not talk to me all weekend and ignored my one text asking "gym?"... she was MIA on social media all weekend and was not talking to friends or family.perhaps drinking with coworkers? I did not expect to hear from her today... .

but there was a small fire at my office this morning and I just received a text from her as I type this asking what happened and am I okay... .and that she never received her per cap tribal check... .and telling me to check my mail (we went over this already, she wont get it at my house. is she that crazy?) I have not responded yet...

My questions are these: 1) how is it so easy for her to act like this and be so emotionally devoid towards me after 4 years? 2) is a 4 year relationship normal for a borderline? 3) is it possible she could have some genuine connection with me? 4) do you think she will try to come back and recycle? 5) anyone have any interpretations of this I am maybe not seeing?

I am sorry for the long post. I have been through A LOT in the past month. Any advice is  much appreciated.

[Learning_curve74]

Hi CharWood, thank you for sharing your story with us. That was a lot of information, and it sounds like you've gone through a lot over the last four years. Hang in there!  

My questions are these: 1) how is it so easy for her to act like this and be so emotionally devoid towards me after 4 years?

If it were hard to the point of impossible, then how would she be able to act this way? Doesn't the way somebody act towards you tell you how they feel about you? How do YOU treat somebody you love?

2) is a 4 year relationship normal for a borderline?

Every person is different, so it's not possible to generalize about how long or how short a "typical" BPD relationship will last. Sometimes it'll be 4 years, sometimes 4 hours.  

3) is it possible she could have some genuine connection with me?

What do you mean by "genuine connection"? You and her have history together, that's obvious. If you're asking if she feels the same way you do, then I ask you does her behavior demonstrate it? What somebody tells you about themselves through their actions is very valuable information. What do you feel about how she is interacting with you?

Also realize that if she has BPD, that is a serious mental illness. We often have the image that mentally ill means somebody like a gibbering schizophrenic that talks to themselves and is obviously mentally ill. However, many people with BPD often hide the "crazy" on the inside, and it mostly comes out when it comes to people that get close to them and in their coping strategies (alcoholism, promiscuity, addictions, self-harm, etcetera). A person with BPD has very different processing of feelings and thoughts, that's why it's classified as a mental illness.

4) do you think she will try to come back and recycle?

To renew a romantic relationship takes two people. Do you want to be back in a serious relationship with her?

5) anyone have any interpretations of this I am maybe not seeing?

Is your interpretation that she has problems because of her mother and other family? To which I ask, is she an adult that should be held responsible for her own actions?

In your second post, you asked, "is she that crazy?" While it's not necessarily kind to call somebody "crazy", you may want to go back and read your own posts over again. Then ask yourself this: If it was your best friend in your shoes instead, what would you tell him?

[Pou]

charwood, you detailed lots of info that supports the fact that your girl friend has PD.  Sounds like BPD as you thought.  In my view, the key question is that given that you are not married, no kids, and no other shared responsibilities ... .do you want to re-connect and potentially establish further ties that will be harder to walk away?  Looking outside in, my view is to detach and create a new life for yourself.  I know it will be difficult because normal people have feelings for the past, but you detailed the craziness and the potential for even crazier stuff could happen based on her environmental background (and perhaps some genetics) ... .although I am not you, but I think you have convince me that the only way is to detach and move on.  Of course, it is easier for me to say this then do it ... .I hope you will do what works for you and that ending up the best for your future.  Good luck.

[CharWood]

I know I sound mean using the crazy word, it's just frustrating to me. I understand she has a mental disorder and I cannot comprehend what her world must be like; but, she has really deeply hurt and betrayed me this time around. It is difficult for me to deal with the pain and loss of someone I really loved. I do think sometimes she really connected to me genuinely... .I feel like, when she was truthful about her past, she shared some things with me that she wouldn't share with others. Im not sure if that is the whole caretaker aspect with a borderline or not but... .I will say that when she seemed to be functioning in a healthy way, she did done nice and thoughtful things for me that seemed selfless. It's hard to reconcile this behavior with her past loving behavior. I'm just really confused. I've really tried to be good to her. I've inspired her to follow her dreams and get back in school by getting her books about her dream job, even my stepmom bought her some, I've taken care of her when she is sick, told her everyday how loved she is (which I hear borderlines feel consumed with that), cook for her, idk... .I just wanted to give her the love she never saw growing up. But, it seemed like she would sabatoge things right when they are going well. I do miss her but I can't be a fool for her and I don't miss the chaos. I go to counseling. I feel it's good for me to do it being that I lost my parents at a young age. I feel if she doesn't want to get help and take accountability for her issues, then there is nothing to do but walk away, for my own sanity. I guess part of me just wishes she will wake up and see what she has lost and admit to herself she needs counseling. She has before, but won't follow through.  It's like the sia elastic heart lyric: it's hard to lose a chosen one. I tried to stick by her. I thought love would win out. But sticking by her now is just wasting my life and taking uneccesary abuse.  It's just hard because she keeps coming around. Like she showed up at my work waiting by my car last Wednesday to go to the gym with me... .her excuse was "I need help at the bank" and when we got there it was closed, of course... everytime she disappears for a couple of days I think it will be the last time I hear from her and then she texts again with some "I need help or did mail come" excuse.  It's just hard. I don't want to lose her but I know maybe I need to... .for my own benefit. I guess I just hold on to hope she will show up at the house and realize she needs help.