Anyone else deal with this?

[Ceruleanblue]

I'm getting much better at being alone, and getting my needs met elsewhere, but it still stinks. I still feel disconnected from him. I think because I thought we'd had a great weekend getaway, and he basically told me he was bored, and he clearly acted like he had had enough of me. I know he'd be this way with anyone, but it still stinks. At least, I think he'd be this way with anyone? See, it makes me question myself.

What I'm wondering is, does anyone else deal with a BPD spouse who only needs/wants them on a very limited basis. I feel like he puts me in a box, and only takes me out when it suits HIS needs. Sex: take me out of the box and expect me to perform as if we've been super connected, and like a porn star. Friendship: only for activity based things HE enjoys. Family functions: I'm expected to attend all his many family functions(he's Mexican, and this was sort of culture shock for me, they get together ALL. THE. TIME).

He also plans things to do with others: his kids, his friends... .yet he doesn't plan things for US. When I beg him to plan a date night for us(you know, because he plans all these things out to do with others), he'll do it, but it always has a passive aggressive twist to it. Like he'll take me to his and his ex's "special restaurant". Of all the places he could choose.

Again, I'm getting way better at planning my own things I enjoy, but it still stinks. This was not at all what I expected from when we were dating, and I frankly would not have married him to live this disconnected life. It just feels like I don't get what he so freely gives to every one else.

Is this the norm with BPD partners, or are most of them clingy and needy? I'd actually do better with that!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[byfaith]

 

I am sorry you have it so crummy getting what you need from your marriage relationship. We didn't get married to be alone. That's how I feel right now. I can't think of one emotional need of mine that my wife tries to meet. That is sad. In four years my wife has not even mentioned getting away for a few days to be alone with me. If she did go with me that is probably how she would feel.

Hate to sound cliche but

hang in there

[MaroonLiquid]

What I'm wondering is, does anyone else deal with a BPD spouse who only needs/wants them on a very limited basis. I feel like he puts me in a box, and only takes me out when it suits HIS needs. Sex: take me out of the box and expect me to perform as if we've been super connected, and like a porn star.

    I understand this feeling of being taken out of a "box" when it suits them (almost like a toy).  You tend to feel used.  I've been there.  I felt that way the first 8 months of separation (mostly due to ST), and can go there at times now if I let myself.  Mine was due to feeling like a "dirty secret" because barely anyone knew we were seeing each other.  She has me blocked on Facebook, and when we would see her "friends" in public, she would act like everything was great between us even though she took my last name off of her page.  I came to the realization that it is a reflection on her, not me.  I realized they will see the truth at some point, and they might already.  In the last 3-4 months, it has gotten much better because I refuse to have unhealthy communication, don't play charades with her and give her space.  Due to this, she is starting to be there more emotionally than in the past.       

    As far as sex, it helps if you come to the acceptance that is what he desires from sex when he wants it, and then decide if that works for you.  I'm not saying the "style" or frequency is ok, but that should be according to your values.  I'll be honest, my wife and I never had a problem in the frequency dept until our separation (3-5 times a week before that).  Now its about once a week or so, so it is improving.  You have to decide what is right for you and express that.  If he doesn't change in that area, then you have a decision to make.  

Friendship: only for activity based things HE enjoys. Family functions: I'm expected to attend all his many family functions(he's Mexican, and this was sort of culture shock for me, they get together ALL. THE. TIME).  He also plans things to do with others: his kids, his friends... .yet he doesn't plan things for US. When I beg him to plan a date night for us(you know, because he plans all these things out to do with others), he'll do it, but it always has a passive aggressive twist to it. Like he'll take me to his and his ex's "special restaurant". Of all the places he could choose.

Been there too.  Still am at times.  If we go out with the kids, everything is great, but up until recently, when I tried to plan something just the two of us, she would say, "I'm not interested in that."  I realized that she can't control her emotions toward me when we are together for more than 5-10 minutes.  I also accepted that my wife "enjoys" superficial, surface friendships that she keeps at arms length so they don't get too close, and yet always heard her complain that she doesn't have any close friends.  

Again, I'm getting way better at planning my own things I enjoy, but it still stinks. This was not at all what I expected from when we were dating, and I frankly would not have married him to live this disconnected life. It just feels like I don't get what he so freely gives to every one else.

Is this the norm with BPD partners, or are most of them clingy and needy? I'd actually do better with that!

     I am getting pretty good at being alone either.  The last 13 months are the first time in my life that I've lived alone.  it sucks and is freeing at the same time.  I would much rather be living with my wife, and at the same time enjoy not having to deal with all her emotional ups and downs right now in order to stay strong.  I believe my wife thought I would bow out by now just like all the other men in her life and dissappear.  Continue her victimhood.  She is probably shocked I'm still around.  hasn't been easy.

     What he is so "freely giving" to everyone else is a facade, a lie and a game of charades.  It was Formflier and Grey Kitty who drilled it into me that I couldn't worry about that.  It took a long time.  i feel for you CB... hang in there.  

[maxsterling]

I think pwBPD see us as objects to meet their desires.  When they need us, they NEED us, and when they don't they don't.  My wife is of the type that need me 24/7.  But then there are the rare times she doesn't want me around at all.  And there is the double standard here - if there is ever a time where I want her with me, she may complain about it. 

I truly think that pwBPD have a mindset of constant chaos being perpetuated by life in general.  Their lack of a strong identity means they must require other people to bring order to the chaos.  If other people aren't available, the chaos intensifies, and we become at fault for their disordered life.  I remember once my wife made a comment that I must not love her because I don't need her in the same way she needs me.  The fact that I am capable of taking care of myself and happy whether she is around or not must mean that I don't love her.  This gives me insight into her mind, that love = need. 

I think this is what your H is doing - you being there at certain times to fill his need and bring order to his life = love.  If you aren't there, you must not love him.  But yet there is the push/pull, where he fears others controlling him, so at times when he feels the "push", he would rather you not be around.

[Cloudy Days]

  I remember once my wife made a comment that I must not love her because I don't need her in the same way she needs me.  The fact that I am capable of taking care of myself and happy whether she is around or not must mean that I don't love her.  This gives me insight into her mind, that love = need. 

I had the same exact conversation with my husband. He was very upset with me when I told him I did not need him to be happy but I wanted him in my life because I love him. I was trying to explain to him I would rather him want me than need me. I don't want to be needed I want to be wanted.  I ended up telling him I did need him I just didn't want to admit it to myself because of my insecurities, just to get him off of my back about it. He claimed he didn't want to be with someone who didn't need him this was a 2 day fight.

I have to say that my husband is the clingy type most of the time, however he doesn't have many friends. He is more antisocial and tends to cut people out of his life easily for small things. We do pretty much everything together at all times. It's not necessarily a cake walk when he's sick of being around you. I however am the type of person who loves my space to do things on my own. I have hobbies that I like to do that I cannot do with him around, he gets upset when I spend too much time on them. I need the me time and I honestly don't get a lot of it. I am very introverted and me time is very relaxing to me. 

[satahal]

What I'm wondering is, does anyone else deal with a BPD spouse who only needs/wants them on a very limited basis. I feel like he puts me in a box, and only takes me out when it suits HIS needs. Sex: take me out of the box and expect me to perform as if we've been super connected, and like a porn star.

Oh yes - no connection, ignores me, comes home hours late, MIA with no plausible excuse, grumpy, scattering egg shells about for weeks and then suddenly expects swinging from the chandelier sex. I don't love this at all. And, I don't do it anymore.

[vortex of confusion]

I still feel disconnected from him.

Even though my husband and I are doing great and have made a lot of progress in the last 6 months, I still feel disconnected from him. I am trying to figure out if the source is me or him or both.

Again, I'm getting way better at planning my own things I enjoy, but it still stinks. This was not at all what I expected from when we were dating, and I frankly would not have married him to live this disconnected life. It just feels like I don't get what he so freely gives to every one else.

 

I know that feeling all too well. My husband can plan and remember to do something on his video game yet doesn't take the initiative to help me plan family outings or outings for just the two of us.

Is this the norm with BPD partners, or are most of them clingy and needy? I'd actually do better with that!

How about a mix of both? Mine is very clingy and needy but he also does the whole checking out thing where he ignores me. It is like toddlers where they will go off and do their thing and forget that you exist. And then all of the sudden reassurance is needed because they started to feel a bit anxious. So, they will get clingy and needy until filled up and then off to do their own thing again. It is so much like the little kid that just wants to be able to look over and see that mom is still there and only comes to mom when something is needed. <sigh> If mom gets out of sight, the kid gets scared and upset. Yep, I think that is an apt analogy! 

[Ceruleanblue]

Vortex: That analogy is very apt. It does feel like a toddler who wants Mom when they want her, then want to exert total independence at other times.

I'd like to feel needed, not just wanted, but I'm not sure he needs me really on any level, other than to feed his ego, provide sex, and an "as needed" activity partner. I've always thought that love makes you feel as if you "need" someone, even thought we know technically, we don't. I feel I need BPDh because I love him.

I think I feel disconnected because he doesn't communicate much at all, and he's really, really not in touch with his feelings. He was such a talker when we dated, but that sure dried up. He actually talks a lot with my daughter, and that is somewhat hard to take. I often feel like a third wheel when it's just the three of us. I get short, brief answers from him that don't develop into real conversations, or I just end up doing all the talking, and he zones out. I feel the only time he makes effort to connect is when he wants something. It just feels terribly narcissistic.

I do think he's coming to realize some of this. Small steps are better than no steps.

[vortex of confusion]

I've always thought that love makes you feel as if you "need" someone, even thought we know technically, we don't. I feel I need BPDh because I love him.

Hmmm. . .I tend to come at things from the opposite perspective. When I met my husband, my attitude was "I don't need him, I want him because of all of the great things about him." When that attitude changed to "I need him" things started getting messy. I am slowly moving back to the place where I can say "I don't need him. I got this. I want him in my life because of what he brings to the table." I am trying to make more of an effort to find the good things that he brings to the table. It helps.

I think I feel disconnected because he doesn't communicate much at all, and he's really, really not in touch with his feelings.

Mine talks too much without listening. There are times when it feels like he talks at me but not to me. It feels like I am just a captive audience.

I do think he's coming to realize some of this. Small steps are better than no steps.

 I have to hold on to the fact that we are making lots of progress. It started off rather slowly but seems to be picking up momentum. Hang in there!

[JadeIshka]

Ah yes, all those extremes here too. I laughed out loud when I read the swinging from the chandelier sex comment because yep! It's weird that this would be an expectation and yet my DH can barely say hi to anyone when he comes through the door after a week long business trip? Sorry, honey, there will be no jumping of bones after you treat me and the kids like wallpaper.

We have a slightly different dynamic than you describe, however Cerulean. In our case, my DH would like me all to himself. As soon as the kids show up from where ever he gets all testy and distant. He has few friends, and he used to deeply resent mine. That's gotten better, I will admit. Still, I feel like the still point in his turning world and considering that I have 4 kids, am in grad school, and three of my children have clinical struggles of their own (two ADHD-Inattentive type low-functioning sweeties and one highly over-functioning, perfectionist clinically depressed and anxious lovie) I feel EXHAUSTED.

Plus, I am the dog's identified person, which is cute as hell but he FOLLOWS ME EVERYWHERE.

I seriously want to run off into the wilderness for like a month and just sit in a river. ALONE.

Anywhoo, it really stinks to feel like the castaway. I hear you. 

[sempervivum]

Taking out from the box sounds very familiar to me. Still, I must admit there are (rare) moments when I feel like I have a normal person around me. As I said, they are rare, they just come suddenly as unexpected waves, I catch them, surf a little on them and then they are gone.

What is annoying is that I developed an ability to depend on myself, which I still have to work on a lot, but this leads to a vicious circle: He doesn´t need me, I retreat and find my own actitivies, then he feels endangered and scared and starts his dramas.

[satahal]

What is annoying is that I developed an ability to depend on myself, which I still have to work on a lot, but this leads to a vicious circle: He doesn´t need me, I retreat and find my own actitivies, then he feels endangered and scared and starts his dramas.

I can totally relate - they have to tug on the line to make sure we're still hooked on. It's frustrating for me - I've always been independent, then dialed way back on my relationships because of his insecurity and the drama me having an independent life caused and also because I was too embarrassed to share with friends what was really going on at home. Then, I turn into this vacuous shell of a human because I have no contact with the outside world, my partner is checked out literally or figuratively most of the time unless he wants a hot meal or sex…ugh.

I've declared my intention to have a life again many months ago and I've been doing more and more with other people and working part time - but that awareness that he's triggered by my independence is something I still fight  - I still feel inclines not to do things because I fear a melt down.

[Ceruleanblue]

What's weird is the more independent I become, the less he feels I "need" him, the less of him I get. He's fine with a very distant marriage. If I didn't need any contact, friendship, or team effort, or love, why would I be married? He is much better with short bursts of me, but he could spend all freaking day with his uber annoying, grown, PD kids. That's another source of conflict, although it's gotten better. Two of his kids want nothing to do with him, which keeps him upset.

The constant push/pull is annoying, but I honestly get more push than pull. I was raised in a marriage with two very connected people, and they both wanted and "needed" each other(one more than the other though... .). I think if I'd been raised in an emotionally distant marriage, this might not feel so bad? Or at least it might feel more normal?

It's just hard to get used to being last option or neglected. I try not to take it personally, but then I'll hear of some story, like an exact story, where he did more/treated his ex better in an exact same situation, and I wonder "WHY?". Fear of her? More need to please her? What?

Here's an example:  We recently took a long weekend away. I'd asked him to help plan, he wouldn't. Then he complained that he was bored. After we got home, he divulged that he and his ex planned their trips together(I TRIED to get him to plan it with me!), and they found fun things to do. I wanted to shake him.

I tell myself it's not personal, that he'd be like this with anyone, but then I find out he acted differently with her. In a way I'd love to have, mind you. She got a better deal it feels like in all areas save one: He's now on meds and seeking treatment.

He seems to respond more to angry, mean people, is the most I can figure, and I refuse to become that. I may have my moments, but even those are because he pushes and pushes me. I'm no longer going to be baited.

[MaroonLiquid]

What's weird is the more independent I become, the less he feels I "need" him, the less of him I get.

I think all pwBPD can be that way.  It's almost like throwing a tantrum (saying, "I'll show you." for becoming less enmeshed.  I think this may be one reason why my wife filed for divorce to begin with.  I wasn't playing her game anymore.  Now she is learning that my boundaries aren't changing and beginning to follow my lead.   

[satahal]

I try not to take it personally, but then I'll hear of some story, like an exact story, where he did more/treated his ex better in an exact same situation, and I wonder "WHY?". Fear of her? More need to please her? What?

Here's an example:  We recently took a long weekend away. I'd asked him to help plan, he wouldn't. Then he complained that he was bored. After we got home, he divulged that he and his ex planned their trips together(I TRIED to get him to plan it with me!), and they found fun things to do. I wanted to shake him.

The other thing is he may be rewriting history a little bit. I find in general my BPD partner's version of past events is skewed - usually to make himself look like hero or victim - so I take it all with a grain of salt.

[vortex of confusion]

We have a slightly different dynamic than you describe, however Cerulean. In our case, my DH would like me all to himself. As soon as the kids show up from where ever he gets all testy and distant. He has few friends, and he used to deeply resent mine. That's gotten better, I will admit. Still, I feel like the still point in his turning world and considering that I have 4 kids, am in grad school, and three of my children have clinical struggles of their own (two ADHD-Inattentive type low-functioning sweeties and one highly over-functioning, perfectionist clinically depressed and anxious lovie) I feel EXHAUSTED.

Hugs!   

I went through a similar period where my husband was clingy and didn't want to share me with anybody. He didn't want to be around the kids and the kids didn't want to be around him. It took some time but we are well beyond that phase. Him and the kids are enjoying each other's company and have good reports about each other.

Plus, I am the dog's identified person, which is cute as hell but he FOLLOWS ME EVERYWHERE.

I laughed out loud when I read this. My dog is the same way. If I go the bathroom and try to shut the door, he will somehow manage to nose it open and lay in the doorway and look at me with those big eyes.

I seriously want to run off into the wilderness for like a month and just sit in a river. ALONE.

Can you run away for a while? What do you do to recharge your batteries? When I am driving places without the kids in the car, my guilty pleasure is to turn up the music as loud as I can. I try to find small ways to indulge myself and recharge my batteries. It took a while for me to get to that point without feeling guilty. I still feel guilty at times but not so much any more. Oh, and I have my little area on my porch where I go and sit when I just need to breathe and relax for a few minutes. It's about carving out little spaces for myself so I can keep on going! Hang in there!

[sempervivum]

Talking about the dog, it´s the same in our house, our dog follows everybody but has a different attitude to each of us.

Vortex, yes, recharging batteries is vital. I remember some years ago I felt guilty taking such moments. It must have been some improvement in the meantime, because reading your post reminded me that I no longer feel guilty when taking moments for myself.

We all should do this.

[Ceruleanblue]

Yeah, I just booked a cabin on a lake for a solid week, and our plan had been to go together. After he complained about our weekend getaway though, I'm sort of rethinking it. His mean daughter is due to deliver that week, so maybe I'll tell him to go enjoy that fiasco. It's impossible for me to be excited about the birth of a baby being born into dysfunction, and I'm not even allowed around, so maybe I should just tell him I need some "me time"?

Maybe for just part of the week even... .

Not sure how he'd take that though. He's all about doing things on his own, but if I do, I get grilled and he acts all suspicious of me.

[formflier]

 

CB,

Why not invite him to come... .and you go... .if he comes... great.  If he goes somewhere else... .you have a good time.

Leave it up to him... .

You go have a good time... .

Don't explain it to him the way I put it... .just make sure he knows he is invited.

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

Formflier:

Yeah, I'm going to try to present it just like that. I just wish I didn't sort of dread it though now. He's said some things in the last 24 hours that I'm really struggling with. I never thought I'd say this, but I really think I might have more fun alone. I'm the type who loves to have my spouse with me, but geesh, what a high price I pay for that.

I'm going to have a good time, regardless. I just wish I could really relax, but with him there, and having to hear about his mean daughter giving birth(really, how can I be excited after all the hateful things she's said to me), and having to tiptoe around his mood swings, I could just do all that at home!

He's all about "fun", but his idea of fun. Which means I won't get to do the things I enjoy. How do I deal with him not wanting to do any of the things I find fun?

[BlueSky99]

It's interesting for me to read everyone's responses because I experience the same thing. The other day my wife and I were sitting at a table and there was one plate in the corner. I tried to explain that if the table was her life, I felt like the plate in the corner. Most of the time, she excludes me from her life, but from time to time, I get her attention, and it's really nice unless she's triggered by something. When we were dating, our relationship was very intense, but since we've been married, she has not pursued anything for us to do together. She sets up trips with her friends, or sister, or her kids from her previous marriage, but has not been interested in doing anything with me. Strangely, the very places she goes with her friends and kids are the placed I introduced her to when we were dating.

We had a weekend event planned since the spring. We were planning to take her kids as well. Later, I overheard that she had set up a trip with her sister and her kids for that weekend. I only found out about it by overhearing her on the phone. We had been looking forward to to this event for months (or so I thought). I inquired about all of us going together on the trip she had planned with her sister only to be accused of being evil and trying to sabotage the trip with her sister since if I went we would have to come home a day early because of my work schedule. She finally said I could come if I drove separately.

I desperately want my behavior to be right, but so often, I have no idea what the right thing is. In this case, I cancelled the event we had planned (even though she told me to attend it by myself). I went on the trip with her family, drove myself, and acted as nice as I could. I stuffed my feelings of being unimportant and ignored as deep as I could, but it's so hard to struggle against bitterness because this is such a pattern. I really need some wisdom on how to deal with situations like this.

[Ceruleanblue]

Bluesky99:

That must have been really hurtful. To me, it doesn't seem accidental that she planned a trip with her sister for the exact weekend you two had planned for your trip. It seems like they do deliberate things, then plead innocence, thereby casting us into the role of bad guy. I don't get why they do stuff like this, but enough reading on these boards proves things like this are common. Trying to figure out "why" will just drive you batty. I still struggle with that myself though.

I'd have probably done what you did, go along, try to be pleasant, but I'd have been hurt to. Those who seem to do well, get over being hurt by the weird things their BPD partners do. I really wish I could get to that place, but I'm afraid if I do, it will mean I just don't love him anymore. I'd like to get to a place of indifference, or acceptance of the weirdness, and still be able to love him.

[sempervivum]

He's all about "fun", but his idea of fun. Which means I won't get to do the things I enjoy. How do I deal with him not wanting to do any of the things I find fun?

I used to despair over that fact, too. Finally, we got to accept the fact that we can practise our fun things without the other side. In the end, we found some things we both consider fun.

There is no rule you have to be each other´s copy. I think that even normal couples deal with that problem. I know a (former) couple where a wife used to say "We like/don´t like this or that... ." There is no use pretending you enjoy something just because your partner does.

I mean, if you manage to develop respect to your partner´s tastes it is a big success. I know it is a difficult task in relationships as ours, but I think it should be so.

Although our marriages look miserable from the outside, for me it´s even bigger misery when one tries to mould the other according to his/her idea.

[Ceruleanblue]

Exactly! I feel like BPDh wants me to like, and become really active in the activities he enjoys. I tried that with the whole motorcycle classes, but he made it unpleasant, so I stopped. I'll knock myself out for you if you are respectful and nice, but when I can't even get that, yeah, he can enjoy riding his bike without me next to him on my bike. I do occasionally ride with him, as a compromise.

My fear after our last mine vacation, and him complaining/dysregulating when I did a few things I enjoyed, is that this time, on a longer trip, it's all going to be about HIM. Meaning I'm going to be too fearful to do things I enjoy, for fear of what happened last time happening again. I did good walking away and avoiding a conflict, but I definitely got the message of "lets only do things he enjoys".

Anyone have any ideas how to best deal with this? I feel we should both do things we enjoy this trip. I don't mind doing "his" things, but I'm afraid to ask him to do any things I also enjoy. Do I just do them, and let the chips fall where they may, then ignore/disengage from his negative reactions? Maybe ask to do the things I enjoy alone?

[sempervivum]

Anyone have any ideas how to best deal with this? I feel we should both do things we enjoy this trip. I don't mind doing "his" things, but I'm afraid to ask him to do any things I also enjoy. Do I just do them, and let the chips fall where they may, then ignore/disengage from his negative reactions? Maybe ask to do the things I enjoy alone?

Is it possible to apply the open approach, you ask him to make a sort of vague plan what to do during the trip, kind of "You like this and I like that, let´s find ourselves somewhere in the middle." When he reacts, you will at least know is there any will on his side. 

[ptilda]

This is so refreshing to read. Not that I'm happy any of you are going through it, but because I know I'm not alone!

H is horrible like this! Our first trip was to his home town in our first week of our relationship and it was great. Since then it's been horrible trying to get him to do anything! He'll complain the whole time and suddenly when we're leaving, he's asking when we can go back! Haha. Oh well.

[Ceruleanblue]

I have asked him what we should do, and other than him looking up horseback riding, he has no ideas. I think he just wants reason to complain, actually. I fear that no matter what we do, he'll label it boring. Today, I ran the idea by him of one of us going alone, and that upset him. I only suggested it because he keeps saying "maybe we need a break" or "maybe we should just start dating again".

I thought what better way for him to get that break than this vacation, but no, he'd rather go. Go figure.

[formflier]

  I fear that no matter what we do, he'll label it boring. 

What can you work on to get rid of this fear?  I suspect it is driving lots of your decision making...

Making decisions based on fear... .is not good... .

Remember... .we need to get out of the FOG... .

Let him be bored... .or... .let him be happy... .that is up to him... .not you... .

FF