Reading "Stop Caretaking the Borderline... "

[SurfNTurf]

Hello Everyone,

I have been off the board for a couple weeks or so, primarily to dig into a book titled, "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist" by Margalis Fjelstad. I am halfway through the book, I have to read it slowly to digest and cogitate on the contents. It's not like breezing through a novel, that's for sure. Here's what I've learned:

I am on the lower end of the continuum of caretakers, probably a good thing, but likely b/c of previous work in AlAnon when my father was alive and actively drinking. That doesn't mean I still don't have BPD caretaking work to do, just 'different work' - which I will let you know more about after I've finished some homework.

I have been avoiding having friends over to the house, b/c of the BPD behaviors and signs of BPD that are there - this book says to stop 'hiding' the BPD effects, b/c you will need the support of others if you want to have a 'normal' life, and that means letting go of the shame and worries, and letting people into my life. So hard to do! The author goes on to explain ways to do this, and my self-care plan for this is: Attend our local PubNPurl knitting group that meets every Wednesday evening for happy hour and needling (knitting needling), and to attend church on Saturday evenings, with a goal toward finding more women friends at both sites.

I've also learned more about why non's marry BPDs - it's not just that they are familiar if you've had one as a parent, but non's always have unfinished business with the BPD parent (and always will have) and the non's find people with whom they can find the same unfinished business, which can never be finished. I recognize this somewhat in myself. I used to 'work' 'at' my father - I worked my regular job and took extra jobs on the side to 'prove' I was a better provider/worker/not lazy/productive person. Now I see I am doing the same with my spouse; I am 'working' at my day job, and also 'working' at home projects that he has started and not finished, I think perhaps to show him I am a good worker/provider/not lazy/productive person. It's making me exhausted, sick, and nuts.

The author talks about how the BPD starts projects then when they lose interest in the project, they NEVER complete them or go back to them. So I do not know if it is a good idea or not, but I am now going to try to discourage my BPD from starting projects b/c they wont' get finished anyway if left to him, and I am tired of finishing them up. I just spent 72 hours completing a floor tiling/grouting/sealing project that he started and abandoned after four months... .I don't want anymore of those in the house.

The author stresses that caretakers (she doesn't use the term codependents) have low self esteem at home, though not at work or social situations, and that caretakers feel they do not deserve a better relationship or that caretakers may have a subconscious drive to avoid intimacy so they select BPDs. This I disagree with; I do deserve a good relationship, but I did not happen to get one, and even if I divorced, I would be 'done' with relationships at my grandmotherly age and focus only on friendships, so I'm not doing anything differently if I were 'single.' Also, I don't feel a low self esteem at home; I feel my BPD has a mental health issue.

The author also states that BPD's are not logical, not reasonable, cannot be expected to be, and even if the BPD gets therapy, they do not share the same reasonableness or logic that others do. They are just wired up differently.

I apologize for the length of this post, these are items that resonated with me after reading the first half of the book. The 2nd half will be even slower as it has skills and tools to try... .I just wanted to let you all know if you have not read the book, get it and read it. I checked mine out at the library to read it, but I believe I will purchase a copy and keep it in my home library.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Cat Familiar]

Hey SurfNTurf,

Thanks for a great synopsis. I'd love to hear more. If I didn't have so many books I want to/should read, I'd order a copy today. However, I don't think I'd want my husband to see my reading it, so perhaps I'll get a Kindle version in the future.

I've had the embarrassment of the BPD monster coming out when I've had friends over when my husband was drinking and smoking pot. Somehow the combination of those two lets out his inner a$$hole. It destroyed a long standing friendship that I still haven't repaired. Actually the friendship was on the skids anyway, but his behavior was the coup de gras.

I do have a nice group of women friends, a few of whom I can share the dirty details of living with a husband with a personality disorder. It's not as rare as you might think.

And yes, I had a parent with BPD as well as a first husband. I'm not too happy about this unfinished business with them however, and I think I want to dispute that finding.

The first husband started countless projects where he lost interest shortly after buying the materials. This husband will start incredible projects: he's compiling a Tibetan dictionary. So far, he's got over 350 words.

I think they sometimes just need something to focus their erratic energy and if it gets oppressive, they try something else.

I don't think I have low self esteem at home. My first husband was an abuser and convinced me I was incapable and inept, so my self esteem suffered in all contexts. After I divorced him, I discovered that other people thought I was the capable one in the relationship and that he was the inept one. I did a lot of therapy and found peace with myself, however that did not prevent me from marrying my second BPD husband.

I'm with you--I don't think I'd be in the market for another marriage should this one not work out.

I like the thought that pwBPD are wired differently and cannot be expected to be logical and reasonable like regular people. I think my husband, the retired lawyer, is quite logical and very reasonable when he's not triggered. But holy sh!t, when he is, there is no reasoning with him at all. (I'm learning not to make that mistake.)

Thanks again for your post. Keep it coming.

[Cat Familiar]

Hey SurfNTurf,

Thanks for a great synopsis. I'd love to hear more. If I didn't have so many books I want to/should read, I'd order a copy today. However, I don't think I'd want my husband to see me reading it, so perhaps I'll get a Kindle version in the future.

I've had the embarrassment of the BPD monster coming out when I've had friends over when my husband was drinking and smoking pot. Somehow the combination of those two lets out his inner a$$hole. It destroyed a long standing friendship that I still haven't repaired. Actually the friendship was on the skids anyway, but his behavior was the coup de gras.

I do have a nice group of women friends, a few of whom I can share the dirty details of living with a husband with a personality disorder. It's not as rare as you might think.

And yes, I had a parent with BPD as well as a first husband. I'm not too happy about this unfinished business with them however, and I think I want to dispute that finding.

The first husband started countless projects where he lost interest shortly after buying the materials. This husband will start incredible projects: he's compiling a Tibetan dictionary. So far, he's got over 350 words.

I think they sometimes just need something to focus their erratic energy and if it gets oppressive, they try something else.

I don't think I have low self esteem at home. My first husband was an abuser and convinced me I was incapable and inept, so my self esteem suffered in all contexts. After I divorced him, I discovered that other people thought I was the capable one in the relationship and that he was the inept one. I did a lot of therapy and found peace with myself, however that did not prevent me from marrying my second BPD husband.

I'm with you--I don't think I'd be in the market for another marriage should this one not work out.

I like the thought that pwBPD are wired differently and cannot be expected to be logical and reasonable like regular people. I think my husband, the retired lawyer, is quite logical and very reasonable when he's not triggered. But holy sh!t, when he is, there is no reasoning with him at all. (I'm learning not to make that mistake.)

Thanks again for your post. Keep it coming.

[babyducks]

Oooh I love this book.   

This was the book that tied it all together for me.   And for once the examples in it made sense with what I was living with.   

I ended up highlighting about 80% of the book.

somewhere here the book has it's own thread

[borderdude]

I am going to talk with my friend who has caretaked hie BPD ex in years, and suffers from her manipulation. How do I make him understand he is ready to let her go?

[rotiroti]

Really happy to see this thread and to see that the book has helped out others as it has helped me! Upon completion I actually wrote to the author and she wrote me back, kind of a star-struck moment haha.

I really wish it was on Audiobook format so I could take another 'listen' to the book.

Really loved the first few chapters that compares the non with the BPD/NPD - reminded me that non's are just as vital to the trauma bonds

[Cat Familiar]

I just don't get how I double post sometimes when I'm just trying to clean up typos.

[OffRoad]

I read and re read this book on a regular basis. Once I started working on taking care of myself, things have gotten worse. My uBPDh blames me for things that have never happened, takes no responsibility for anything, and has decided that everything I have done for myself, I don't allow him to do.  But I still love the book.

[SurfNTurf]

So I finished the book; the take away message I got was yes, we have to take care of ourselves first, and it gave some good ideas how to get started on that.

The other take away message I got was that BPD's have the emotional development of a 2 year old, if you can't expect a 2 year old to behave well, how can you expect the same from a BPD? This hit home this morning when, after last evening I had put a stack of his papers on his desk to get them off the kitchen counter. When I got up t his morning, he had taken EVERYTHING off the kitchen counter (mixer, coffee maker, napkin holder, dog cookie jar, etc) and hid them. This is clearly the actions of an emotionally arrested individual. Since I don't drink coffee, I guess he'll drag out the coffee maker when he wants some. Since I no longer bake as he doesn't appreciate it, I guess the mixer can stay hidden.

The book confirms/affirms what I've come to understand: you can't expect anything from them, you can't expect them to care for you the way you care for/about them, and you can't expect an adult/reciprocal relationship from them. They won't understand logic b/c they can't, they won't remember their behaviors, and just like you can't expect a 2 year old to apologize or show remorse, same with a BPD.

I have typically waited around Saturday mornings for him to finally unass the bed at noon, but tomorrow I'm going to get all my hair cut off and donate it, then I'm going for a pedi, and tomorrow night to an evening event at church.

[Panda39]

So I finished the book; the take away message I got was yes, we have to take care of ourselves first, and it gave some good ideas how to get started on that.

The other take away message I got was that BPD's have the emotional development of a 2 year old, if you can't expect a 2 year old to behave well, how can you expect the same from a BPD? This hit home this morning when, after last evening I had put a stack of his papers on his desk to get them off the kitchen counter. When I got up t his morning, he had taken EVERYTHING off the kitchen counter (mixer, coffee maker, napkin holder, dog cookie jar, etc) and hid them. This is clearly the actions of an emotionally arrested individual. Since I don't drink coffee, I guess he'll drag out the coffee maker when he wants some. Since I no longer bake as he doesn't appreciate it, I guess the mixer can stay hidden.

I just had to pop in and say this just cracked me up  Guess that takes care of all the kitchen clutter! Hang in there 

[SurfNTurf]

Thanks Panda! After the initial ten minutes of being pissed off, I really had to laugh at such immaturity!

[OffRoad]

I have typically waited around Saturday mornings for him to finally unass the bed at noon, but tomorrow I'm going to get all my hair cut off and donate it, then I'm going for a pedi, and tomorrow night to an evening event at church.

And there you go. Do what you want to do. It's not going to matter anyway in the long run.

[waverider]

So I finished the book; the take away message I got was yes, we have to take care of ourselves first, and it gave some good ideas how to get started on that.

The other take away message I got was that BPD's have the emotional development of a 2 year old, if you can't expect a 2 year old to behave well, how can you expect the same from a BPD? This hit home this morning when, after last evening I had put a stack of his papers on his desk to get them off the kitchen counter. When I got up t his morning, he had taken EVERYTHING off the kitchen counter (mixer, coffee maker, napkin holder, dog cookie jar, etc) and hid them. This is clearly the actions of an emotionally arrested individual. Since I don't drink coffee, I guess he'll drag out the coffee maker when he wants some. Since I no longer bake as he doesn't appreciate it, I guess the mixer can stay hidden.

I just had to pop in and say this just cracked me up  Guess that takes care of all the kitchen clutter! Hang in there 

I remember when we went through the phase of hiding things... TV remotes, glasses, car keys, odd shoes, tooth brushes... .

[Mustbeabetterway]

This is the book that has helped me clarify my situation the most.  I have read, reread, and highlighted. It has made a difference in my interactions with my pwBPD.  Even little things like buying things I want at the grocery store.  I have usually settled for what he wanted and really pushed my own wants aside much of the time.  If he doesn't get what he wants, a big fit is coming.  His anger scares me and I have tried to keep from making him angry.  Now at a grandmotherly age myself, I have missed out on living my own life and making choices that I would have made if not for my caretaking.  I am not blaming him, because as the book say, anything that has gone on, I have allowed into my life.  I have given away my own power too often.

Now I am also struggling to make choices that are good for me and to have the kind of life I want.

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Much of what you say describes what I have been living.  Good luck with making your own happiness.

[OffRoad]

So I finished the book; the take away message I got was yes, we have to take care of ourselves first, and it gave some good ideas how to get started on that.

The other take away message I got was that BPD's have the emotional development of a 2 year old, if you can't expect a 2 year old to behave well, how can you expect the same from a BPD? This hit home this morning when, after last evening I had put a stack of his papers on his desk to get them off the kitchen counter. When I got up t his morning, he had taken EVERYTHING off the kitchen counter (mixer, coffee maker, napkin holder, dog cookie jar, etc) and hid them. This is clearly the actions of an emotionally arrested individual. Since I don't drink coffee, I guess he'll drag out the coffee maker when he wants some. Since I no longer bake as he doesn't appreciate it, I guess the mixer can stay hidden.

I just had to pop in and say this just cracked me up  Guess that takes care of all the kitchen clutter! Hang in there 

I remember when we went through the phase of hiding things... TV remotes, glasses, car keys, odd shoes, tooth brushes... .

And I thought it was only me that had this happen... .but in my case, he hid them on purpose so he could be the hero and find them... .

[LivingWBPDWife]

The author talks about how the BPD starts projects then when they lose interest in the project, they NEVER complete them or go back to them. So I do not know if it is a good idea or not, but I am now going to try to discourage my BPD from starting projects b/c they wont' get finished anyway if left to him, and I am tired of finishing them up. I just spent 72 hours completing a floor tiling/grouting/sealing project that he started and abandoned after four months... .I don't want anymore of those in the house.

This is a huge problem for my BPD wife, she starts 100 things and has never finished any of them, and I get sucked in since I spent the money, or she blackmails me into helping. For example, she won't eat if I don't help her, and if she doesn't eat, the baby doesn't eat.

I have now 100% STOPPED helping with projects, businesses, etc. But, she just failed on one thing and started another, but since I wasn't part of it, I have zero interest, and zero investment. She will give up in 1-2 months and the process will be less painful for me.

So, I think that you are on the right track to help with nothing and don't encourage ANYTHING -- BPDs can't run projects, businesses, etc. they can't even have a rational conversation. The moment something goes wrong, they are going to explode on YOU!

Thus, don't help them jump from idea to idea, it always ends up in our face.