Asking a pwBPD how they are feeling. Does it work?

[Lifewriter16]

When my BPDxbf and I were together, he would often communicate by text. I could tell he was upset from a change in how he expressed himself but I didn't have a clue what he was reacting to or how he felt or why and if I asked if he was upset, he didn't like that. I was completely in the dark so I tried the counselling technique to asking him what he was feeling, to see if I could get a better idea of where he was. It went down really badly. He usually lost it when I asked him what he was feeling.

Is that common? How can I validate him when he won't admit that he's not feeling so good and won't tell me what's going on?

It's as if he expected me to spot he was upset, pinpoint it and come up with exactly the right reaction without him giving me a clue. It was like one big test that I constantly failed.

Lifewriter x

[enlighten me]

It felt like that to me as well. I gave up asking if my exgf was ok as I never got an answer and it seemed to set her off. I don't know if it was expected of me just to know or whether because she didn't know it upset her.

[Kennyble]

Likewise here. Even though it was obvious from my DBPDexgf's demeanor that she was upset or had been triggered, I very seldom had any joy in getting her to talk openly about how what she was feeling.

It was triply bad in the last few months of the r/s as she effectively became a complete detached and often even hostile stranger (while having the temerity to stay under the same roof). Looking back she must have been silently and coldly plotting to exit, which was also done in a detached and cold way. Any thought on this? Is it standard BPD procedure?

[Learning_curve74]

One of the thought patterns of a borderline is: I can't survive on own,  I'm not good enough and need others to make it; however, other people can't be trusted, they will always let me down. You can see why this is a mental illness because that sounds crazy, doesn't it?

My exgf explained that it sounds patronizing to her at time to be asked how she feels. Sometimes it was because she felt other people didn't really care what she felt, that they were just being fake, and to be honest part of that is her looking into the mirror because she was often so embroiled in her own emotional storms that she didn't have room in her head to care about other people's problems in addition to her own.

It's a bit of a catch 22, you can try to validate that they seem upset and see how it goes from there. Sometimes you can only get so far, they have to learn to solve their own problems.

[Kennyble]

Just re-read my earlier post. Sorry for the bitterness, was written while feeling well pis**d off.

[joeramabeme]

Hi LifeWriter, I can relate too.  When I asked my pwBPD traits how she was doing (or any other question about her) she would always say give me an "I" statement; meaning that she wanted me to go first.

I had the opportunity to find out why she did this, in essence she said because she was afraid that I would abandon her so she wanted me to take the risk first.

So, perhaps you could try something like; "I am feeling nervous and concerned because it appears that you look upset and are not doing well".  This would have the effect of taking the focus directly of him and placing a buffer zone so that his feelings are not directly in the spotlight.  He might then be able to respond do you think I look that way or I can see why you would think that - the focus being about your observations about his feelings rather than his feelings.

It was like one big test that I constantly failed.

Strangely appears to be true, but perhaps it is just a way to keep distant from acknowledging feelings.

[Learning Fast]

Using an analagy that enlighten me has posted many times:  think of it in terms of asking a 6 year old child how they are feeling when they are "off"---would you expect to receive a mature, introspective adult response?  Or would it be something like "nothing", "I'm fine", "leave me alone", "I don't want to talk about it", etc.  These are the responses that I typically receive from my uBPDgf when asked.

[patientandclear]

Joe, my sense is that "I am nervous and concerned because you seem upset" could actually create a feeling of tremendous pressure.  Like the pwBPD is somehow responsible for the partner's feelings.  Far from creating an opening for sharing, my sense is that it would prompt a big push away and emotional shut down.

Sounds like maybe your experience was different.  But the BPD guy in my life reacts like he's been scalded if I intimate that something he did made me disappointed, sad, hurt, upset, anxious.

[valet]

In my experience with my pwBPD, when I asked her how she was feeling she saw it as invalidating and patronizing.

The only thing that I could do in these situations was to give her a lot of space, which I did naturally not want to do because it seemed to me that she needed support.

I think it's a matter of staying centered yourself when this happens. Inevitably, even as dire as it may seem to a partner, we can only control ourselves. With an understanding of how a pwBPD's emotions fluctuate, it gets easier, but it's still not very fun for anyone (I would guess this, at least).

None of us our mind readers. We shouldn't feel that we have to uphold that expectation.

[enlighten me]

The problem is as valet says we aren't mind readers. If we ask them then we annoy them because we should know whats wrong and automatically help or because they don't know whats wrong so it stirs up their emotions or because we are pointing out their feelings to them or a multitude of other things.

If we don't ask then we are oblivious to their needs. We are ignoring them, We don't care about them.

It was for me a minefield and I think I hit every mine in it.

[Lifewriter16]

Thanks everyone for all your replies.

I'm glad to hear that I wasn't imagining it, but sad that there are so many other people living in this minefield. I hit virtually everyone of those mines too, enlighten me. And my BPDxbf has the audacity to say that if you wanted to be with someone, you'd be with them (pushing for me to re-commit to a relationship last week). He's got to be joking. I'm not putting up with this forever.

Love Lifewriter

[Skip]

Before we close this one… Let's not validate each other for invalid things.  It's easy to do.  Feels good.  :)oesn't help us grow.

When a relationship fails, and everyone here is from a failed relationship, communication breaks down completely. Gottman explains the 4 stages of deterioration here: https://bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down  His practice claims a 88% accuracy rate of predicting divorce just based on the communication breakdown.

It can get to the point that "good morning" doesn't work. As Valet points out, it may have been that we were patronizing or insincere or it could be that the partner was reading something negative that was not there. This is a characteristic communication breakdown.

Everyone on this board saw the worst of their partner (many of which were subclinical BPD) and wasn't at their best either as the relationship crashed and burned.

Re: Asking a pwBPD how they are feeling. Does it work?

Absolutely. Good empathy skills are very effective in all relationships and are highlighted as being especially important in "BPD" relationships by the "family connections" trainers.

Scott's video does a good job talking about how to do this:

https://bpdfamily.org/2015/02/video-importance-of-empathy-skills-when.html

[Michelle27]

After years of raging, I got to the point with my ex that I could tell by a tone in his voice and a certain facial expression when he was gearing up for a rage.  The facial expression was tense muscles in his jaw and ALWAYS preceded a rage. Seeing it used to spark HUGE anxiety in me, and I'd start asking questions about how he was doing and whether everything was ok.  I'm pretty sure he sensed my anxiety even without saying anything and his reaction was to absolutely  get annoyed at the questions.  Looking back, I think he was already dysregulating and my questioning gave him the "excuse" to go ahead and rage. 

[Lifewriter16]

I agree Michelle27. I think my BPDxbf was already dysregulating when he contacted me and I walked straight into the trap because I couldn't mind read by text - there are no nonverbal cues to read, no tone of voice to assess, no knowledge about the context of what had happened that day and lots of words that would have explained more fully were simply missing. It was complete guess work. And when I asked him how he was feeling, he wouldn't say he just said I should know. And that if I didn't know, then it wasn't worth him telling me. But, to me, there was no way I could ever have known.

Lifewriter x

[joeramabeme]

Joe, my sense is that "I am nervous and concerned because you seem upset" could actually create a feeling of tremendous pressure.  Like the pwBPD is somehow responsible for the partner's feelings.  Far from creating an opening for sharing, my sense is that it would prompt a big push away and emotional shut down.

Sounds like maybe your experience was different.  But the BPD guy in my life reacts like he's been scalded if I intimate that something he did made me disappointed, sad, hurt, upset, anxious.

Point taken patientandclear.  All of our significant others are unique individuals.  I was not implying that this was the answer, just an approach that seemed to take pressure off my other and gave her comfort knowing that I placed my feelings out in the forefront before she did.  Could have just the opposite effect with someone else.

Either way you approach this question, I do not think that pwBPD are comfortable with their feelings.  Learning how to navigate around and through that is a journey that we each of us has had to chart out.

Joe

[toddinrochester]

I would get " I am not doing well at all Todd, I am sad and confused and I don't want to talk on the phone because that would make me even more upset". Which is really avoidance and probably she really didn't want to talk to me because she really didn't feel bad at all. I also would get how even the texting is making her sad... .

[Palladio]

In asking how they feel,we seldom if ever get a straight honest

answer. I received a wall of rage in attempting to discuss any

problem that I began sending in the relationship.

Case in point,after NC for 7 weeks after the BU, I

received a text on Monday, from him wishing me a

happy birthday. After self debating for several hours

I sent a short thank you and also added that it seemed

an odd text, considering how rage filled he was when

we were together the final day.His reply ,"Forget it.

I was trying to be nice. Looks like that isn't possible."

Even pointing out how they are or were feeling, sheds

light on their feelings, which they can't and won't

acknowledge.That last day together, when I refused to

allow to turn into a screaming match, was memorable.

Calmy I asked why we were never able to make things

work,after 28 years and 4 recycle attempts. Rather than

discussing even one reason, he avoided everything, turning

me into a verbal punching bag , with various feeble excuses,

ranging from me being too conservative politically to not

introducing him to enough of my friends, none of which

were fact based.All diversionary attempts to keep him from

looking inward. Not one valid reason to end a relationship.

Another post on this site, compares our BPDexs to children

having temper tantrums. A spot on analogy. I've been

asking myself why I've continued to crave a relationship

with a tantrum throwing child for all these years. What a

novel concept to have a significant other with whom I

could have an even keel conversation about the problems

and successes in our partnership, without that person

going ballistic over the smallest perceived slight. I'm

praying that if there is ever another person in my life,

that I have the discretion to weed out any BPD before

it even reaches a friendship stage.

Aren't we all exhausted from such emotional upheaval

and from being held hostage by their behavior?

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Palladio,

It's like living in a topsy-turvy world where nothing is what it seems to be. And you are right, it is absolutely exhausting.

Love Lifewriter x

[saintgrey]

I don't know if my ex was honest with me when i used to ask her 'how do you feel', i like to think that after years of friendship and a relationship she trusted me with her feelings.

Sometimes it was sad the things she will say,a lot of wanting to die and thinking she was all alone in this world and that she only had me and not even her family wanted anything to do with her but she was the one that push them away.

[jhkbuzz]

Likewise here. Even though it was obvious from my DBPDexgf's demeanor that she was upset or had been triggered, I very seldom had any joy in getting her to talk openly about how what she was feeling.

It was triply bad in the last few months of the r/s as she effectively became a complete detached and often even hostile stranger (while having the temerity to stay under the same roof). Looking back she must have been silently and coldly plotting to exit, which was also done in a detached and cold way. Any thought on this? Is it standard BPD procedure?

In Schema Theory, that ego state is referred to the "detached protector" and it's dissociative in nature. It's often appears in response to overwhelming emotions.